The Loan Window

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SteveBlade

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When's this thing open?

How long can we loan a player for during it?

Are we restricted to loans or can we rent and leece?

How do you like your steak done?
 



When's this thing open?

How long can we loan a player for during it?

Are we restricted to loans or can we rent and leece?

How do you like your steak done?

We could go to Leece...
 
"This temporary window starts on Wednesday September 9, before slamming shut on November 25, giving Football League clubs the chance to strengthen their squads should they suffer an injury crisis.

When it closes, though, no more players can be added to their rosters until the winter transfer window reopens again for business in the new year.

Premier League sides are not allowed to make any new signings in this period, although they can offload youngsters to the Football League in order to gain valuable first-team experience, while no overseas players can be bought in this window.

A loan move can last for between 28 and 93 days, with a three-month deal keeping a player at his new club until the transfer window opens again in January 2016.

And finally, should any side in all four divisions suffer a goalkeeping injury, then a replacement can be signed, with loans tending to last a week."

As per: http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/9975761/emergency-loan-window-all-you-needed-to-know
 
Well that answers everything, thank you sir.

'Slamming' shut. Can anyone support this words appropriateness in regards to the loan window closing?
 
Maybe we can complete some of the deals Adkins mentioned the other day.
 
A 93 day loan from the day the window opens would only take us to the 11th December.

Knowing the way United usually operate I would imagine we will wait until a loan deal will take the player up to January 1st before we actually bring anyone in.
 
A 93 day loan from the day the window opens would only take us to the 11th December.

Knowing the way United usually operate I would imagine we will wait until a loan deal will take the player up to January 1st before we actually bring anyone in.
So we're probably looking at the end of September, early October before making a signing to make sure we can utilise them over the busy Christmas period.
 
A 93 day loan from the day the window opens would only take us to the 11th December.

Knowing the way United usually operate I would imagine we will wait until a loan deal will take the player up to January 1st before we actually bring anyone in.

depends on the loan , with several players like Brayford Done coming back 3 months straight away would cover full Back and center forward cover for example
 



"This temporary window starts on Wednesday September 9, before slamming shut on November 25, giving Football League clubs the chance to strengthen their squads should they suffer an injury crisis.

When it closes, though, no more players can be added to their rosters until the winter transfer window reopens again for business in the new year.

Premier League sides are not allowed to make any new signings in this period, although they can offload youngsters to the Football League in order to gain valuable first-team experience, while no overseas players can be bought in this window.

A loan move can last for between 28 and 93 days, with a three-month deal keeping a player at his new club until the transfer window opens again in January 2016.

And finally, should any side in all four divisions suffer a goalkeeping injury, then a replacement can be signed, with loans tending to last a week."

As per: http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/9975761/emergency-loan-window-all-you-needed-to-know

The window will "slam shut". FFS
 
A 93 day loan from the day the window opens would only take us to the 11th December.

Knowing the way United usually operate I would imagine we will wait until a loan deal will take the player up to January 1st before we actually bring anyone in.
That's what I expect, with a view to making it permanent in the JTW.

What may change is if we get an injury to Edgar or Collins. Then we may have to bring someone in sooner.
 
"This temporary window starts on Wednesday September 9, before slamming shut on November 25, giving Football League clubs the chance to strengthen their squads should they suffer an injury crisis.

A loan move can last for between 28 and 93 days, with a three-month deal keeping a player at his new club until the transfer window opens again in January 2016.

As per: http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/9975761/emergency-loan-window-all-you-needed-to-know


I am not too sure if they are very good at math.... if the window opens on the 9th September and you take out a 93 day loan... doesnt that end around the 11th December (about 3 weeks short of the JTW opening) so if it keeps a player at his new club until the transfer window opens.... he isnt allowed to play for 3 weeks?
 
A loan move can last for between 28 and 93 days,

My arithmetic calculates 114 days from Sep 9 to Dec 31 (inclusive), so is there anything to prevent us loaning a player for 28 days, and then another loan, as soon as the first one ends, for 86 days? Obviously you risk the chance of another club coming in at the end of the first loan period and you lose the player, but if you come to an agreement with his club at the start of the initial loan period to prevent that, all should be well.

Although Martin Samuels would no doubt have something to say.
 
What may change is if we get an injury to Edgar or Collins. Then we may have to bring someone in sooner.

And that's rollin' the dice not planning.

Is there another business with a £8/12M turnover/wage bill who would try to wing it instead of planning?
 
And that's rollin' the dice not planning.

Is there another business with a £8/12M turnover/wage bill who would try to wing it instead of planning?
Yeah, quite a few and I've worked for some of them. I get what you're saying and generally I agree but it seems like we had a plan that went awry. I'm guessing the agent asked for some extra bunce at the last minute and we told him to go fuck himself. Highly principled but I'm a pragmatist so I'm not too impressed. If you leave deals until the last minute don't be surprised if people try to take advantage of you.

As I said at the time, we've become hostages to fortune.

I hope we have also identified a couple of potential emergency loans as contingencies.
 
The 93 day thing is the big problem with the loan window as well as other issues such as recall clauses, players training with parent clubs like Paddy McCarrthy etc. Would have been much better if we could have got the 2 in question on more secure deals before the deadline. Still, having Tel and Flynn back is a boost and we still have Brayford, Harris and Done to return too so we look in pretty good shape. Who knows, Adkins might even resurrect Paul Coutts from the grave to have an impact too.
 
And that's rollin' the dice not planning.

Is there another business with a £8/12M turnover/wage bill who would try to wing it instead of planning?

I kind of agree with the sentiment Grumpy but a club can always be more well stocked with options depending on how much money you choose to chuck at it. We have Alcock/Kennedya/McGahey/Wallace to supplement the first team defence and Brayford and Harris to come back.

Another good, experienced CB and a good experienced CM would be very welcome but it's not like we have no cover at all
 
The 93 day thing is the big problem with the loan window as well as other issues such as recall clauses, players training with parent clubs like Paddy McCarrthy etc. Would have been much better if we could have got the 2 in question on more secure deals before the deadline. Still, having Tel and Flynn back is a boost and we still have Brayford, Harris and Done to return too so we look in pretty good shape. Who knows, Adkins might even resurrect Paul Coutts from the grave to have an impact too.


"Who knows, Adkins might even resurrect Paul Coutts from the grave to have an impact too."

And then you go and spoil it all by saying something stupid!!!

:)
 
Yes but the Murphy money wasn't spent before deadline day, as Jim never explicitly said it would be! :)
well officially we cant spend money ie buy players till january
doesnt mean we can loan him with a fee in place for said date, as is intimated
mind you if hes a championship player his wages could eat a nice chunk out of the murphy money , we can only spend it once, i expect him to be near 15 k a week minimum maybe 20 k so thats a quarter of a mill there
 
Interesting and informative article on the BBC website

Premier League: Is the loan system being abused by clubs?

By Alistair MagowanBBC Sport
While the mind boggled at a record £870m Premier League spend during the summer transfer window, another statistic caught the eye from a club that was relatively prudent.

Chelsea's net outlay amounted to £38m - the fourth-highest in the Premier League - but Nathaniel Chalobah's move to Napoli took the number of Blues players out on loan to 33.

The club are not breaking any rules, and it is a pattern repeated across Europe, with Juventus reportedly owning an additional 58 players not in their first-team squad.

Chelsea's tally could rise even further with the emergency loan window - which opens on Wednesday - giving Football League clubs the chance to sign players for between 28 and 93 days.

Clubs can only register a squad of 25 players for the Premier League - and some have been accused of "abusing" the system by stockpiling talent to the detriment of rivals and the players themselves.

So why does a club recruit players in this way and what are the consequences?

What's the motive?
Clubs might not like this analogy, but it can help to think of players in terms of property belonging to a landlord.

If you can afford to own 58 players rather than 25 and no-one is stopping you farming them out, it might make financial sense to do so, especially as big clubs aim to comply with Uefa's Financial Fair Play rules which cap spending in relation to income.

The hope is such players will improve and eventually reach the first team, as Chelsea goalkeeper Thibaut Courtois did. He was bought for £5m from Genk in 2011, sent on loan to Atletico Madrid for three seasons, and broke into the Chelsea side last season.

Even if they don't, the club may hope that a player's value will increase as he matures. Chelsea sent Romelu Lukaku on loan to West Brom and Everton before making a £10m profit on him when he was sold to the Toffees in 2014.

Best of all for the club bean-counters is the fact the loan club will usually pick up the tab for the player's wages.

_85337664_courtois_afp.jpg

Thibaut Courtois: A good example of how the loan system can benefit a player's development

"We don't send players out because we are trying to recover money, we send them because we want them to play and develop," Chelsea technical director Michael Emenalo has said.

"We felt it is better for players at 18-21 to go on loan somewhere where they get visibility and good competition."

Former Tottenham and Liverpool director of football Damien Comolli also believes clubs have players' best interests at heart, giving them the opportunity to play at a higher level than the current under-21 league, which has drawn criticism for its lack of competitiveness.

Comolli told BBC Sport: "I think Chelsea act in good faith, that they are concerned with the progress of young players. The number of players on loan is amazing, but for me there is no foul play."

Is the system fair?
Chelsea are not the only club to loan players out in this manner, but with great wealth at their disposal, they are certainly more efficient than other Premier League clubs.

Manchester City enjoy similar financial backing to the west London team, yet despite spending a record £160m in this window, they have 14 players on loan, including two who have agreed permanent deals for next season.

Liverpool have 15 players on loan, while Arsenal weigh in with 12, having extended Carl Jenkinson's contract before loaning him back to West Ham for another season. Manchester United only have six players being paid elsewhere this season.

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Chelsea have more than double the number of players on loan than any other Premier League team

The only rules that teams need to abide by concern the number of domestic players they are allowed to loan in, which is limited to four in one season, two at any one time and one from a specific club.

There are advantages in loaning to rivals, though. Loan players cannot play against their parent clubs, so Chelsea winger Victor Moses, whosigned a new four-year deal before being loaned out to West Ham,can now attempt to score against all of Chelsea's Premier League rivals - but not Jose Mourinho's team.

Then there is the wider issue of Premier League clubs scooping up young talent and farming them out to lower league teams.

Not only can this stunt the development of players who are changing clubs every season, according to a Comolli, but a Championship side might sell a player to a Premier League club and see them back on loan at a rival further down the track.

Hull midfielder Tom Huddlestone started his career at Derby and in 2005 was sold for £2.5m to Tottenham. A few months later he was back in the Championship on loan with Wolves.

Chelsea striker Patrick Bamford, 21, came through Nottingham Forest's youth system but two of his four loan deals since signing for the Blues in 2012 have been at fellow Championship sides.

The way clubs are using the loan system is an issue Uefa president Michel Platini is aware of.

The former France captain has said: "It is not possible that the best teams would have all the best players or competition itself is finished. We have to think about football in all of Europe, not only in two or three clubs."

Fifa also plans to scrap the emergency loan system after this season as it believes it affects "the sporting integrity of the competitions".

There is a cautionary tale for stockpiling, however. At one point, Italian side Parma had 226 players listed as affiliated to the club. Italian clubs can co-own players but with debts amounting to £54m, the club went bust in March.

Is it good for players?
Andros Townsend was loaned out to nine teams before making his Tottenham breakthrough - but according to his father it was the making of the 24-year-old.

The winger's emergence came at a similar time to fellow England internationals Harry Kane and Ryan Mason, and his father Troy believes the trio made the grade because they were a small group which the clubs had faith in.

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Andros Townsend went on loan to Yeovil, Leyton Orient, MK Dons, Ipswich, Watford, Millwall, Leeds, Birmingham and QPR before making his Spurs breakthrough

He told BBC Sport: "Being educated in the game in the lower leagues helped Andros in his journey. Tottenham always showed an interest even when he was down at Yeovil as it can be quite difficult for a player if they feel detached from the parent club.

"With Chelsea having 33 out on loan, there will be some players coming back wondering if they have a future at the club and even in English football. For some of them they probably won't, and they are being loaned out because they will be sold somewhere down the line."

Comolli is more critical of Tottenham's approach, however. He believes that Kane, Townsend and Mason made their breakthrough in spite of how the club handled them and believes players benefit from a consistent philosophy rather different plans at numerous clubs.

"That was the opposite of what loans should be for," he added. "Can you imagine a business telling its employees to change company nine or 10 times before you are ready to come back to us? I think making that many loan moves is wrong."

Should there be a limit on players loaned?
Professional Footballers' Association chief executive Gordon Taylor admits the current system is "strange" and with clubs owning large pools of players, likens it to third-party ownership, which has been banned in Britain since 2009 and is now outlawed worldwide.

Like Fifa, Taylor's concerns also surround the integrity of competitions as well as opportunities for young players in England.

While Chelsea have five players on loan at Dutch side Vitesse Arnhem, eyebrows were raised in the 2012-13 season when the Pozzo family took over at Watford, then in the Championship, and brought in 12 players on loan from other clubs they also own - Italian side Udinese and Granada in Spain.

Taylor said: "If it becomes uncontrollable, and you think of Watford and their links with Italy, it invites scrutiny with regards to the integrity of the game.

"You don't want the winners of the competition to be the club that has the best relationships with another club and borrows their best youngsters."

Chelsea's expensive mistakes?
Kevin de Bruyne:
Bought by Chelsea for £6.7m, sold to Wolfsburg for £18m

Romelu Lukaku:Bought by Chelsea for £18m, sold for £28m to Everton

Total profit: £21.3m

Replaced by:Mohamed Salah (£11m) and Juan Cuadrado (£26.1m), who are now both on loan

Replaced by: Loic Remy (£8.5m), Didier Drogba (free), Radamel Falcao (loan)

Total cost: £45.6m

Fortunately for English football, wholesale imports in the manner of those seen at Watford are relatively rare and the Hornets only have three loanees this season.

The Premier League's riches mean it is becoming more common to loan players the other way.

And Comolli believes Chelsea have actually made mistakes in loaning out and selling the likes of Kevin de Bruyne and Lukaku before they reached their true value to the team.

Townsend added: "Clubs need to trust their young talent. The loan system can be a good way but it can be abused.

"Victor Moses is still getting Premier League moves on the back of being a Chelsea player, but somewhere down the line younger players will not be getting those moves. They will be sent out on loan before they are sold off.

"That's where we have to look at curbing the loan rules, not to hinder the clubs but to benefit the players."

Additional reporting by BBC Sport's Mike Peter.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34125476
 
The way to get the most games out of a loanee would be to get them on the morning of 26th Sep (Donny @ home). 93 days takes us to 28th Dec (Bradford @ home). If we wanted to then make it permanent we could sign them on new years day in time for the next match.
 



Players have to be registered by 12pm on the friday I believe to play on the following Saturday.
 

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