McEveley v Peterborough

[William Henry Foulkes]

Bergen Blade has analysed McEveley's performance against Peterborough. This is what he came up with. (I hope he doesn't mind me nicking it.) It surprised me.

Again I think McEveley's mistakes gets noticed more than other's, not sure why. There were quite a few times where we gave away possession dangerously, many players were guilty in this respect. McEveley was as well, on 34 minutes. It led to a free kick. Just before half time he also lost a header.

In the second half I noticed the one time he sliced a clearance up in the air, then headed it away. Bit later he tried an easy ball to K.Wallace which went out for a throw in. On 24 minutes he went for a header that he should have left for Baxter. Five minutes before the end he lost another challenge, which lead to a shot over.

Otherwise he was ok. He usually passes well, even when under pressure. 6/10

Peterborough's biggest chances - their goal when Freeman was unable to stop the tricky scorer and Edgar, our second defender, didn't help him. They had a free header from a free kick. On the stroke of half time Edgar back heeled a shot to their forward who had only the keeper to beat 6 yards out. Howard made a great save when a deep cross found their right winger (should Adams have tracked back, or K.Wallace moved over sooner?). James Wallace gave them a golden chance right before the final whistle when he chose not to clear.

I also want a new centre half as I think a stronger, more commanding type, maybe quicker as well, will give us more than McEveley and Collins' composure and experience. But there's a reason why Adkins has shown quite a bit of faith in both and let's be fair and objective when analysing their performances.

Like I said a surprise, but on the part of those of us (me included) who thought he had a poor game it may be confirmation bias at work ie you see what you're looking for and not what actually happened.

 

[Hartley Hare]

I saw that a cup of tea was £2.20 and what actually happened was I didn't buy one.

HH

 

[Claude Makelele]

You've forgot the pass in the second half he played out wide, easy ball, no danger and passes it straight to their player. It wouldn't be too bad if we weren't playing in luminous green and them in darker blue.

 

[LoughboroBlade]

Bergen Blade has analysed McEveley's performance against Peterborough. This is what he came up with. (I hope he doesn't mind me nicking it.) It surprised me.

Again I think McEveley's mistakes gets noticed more than other's, not sure why. There were quite a few times where we gave away possession dangerously, many players were guilty in this respect. McEveley was as well, on 34 minutes. It led to a free kick. Just before half time he also lost a header.

In the second half I noticed the one time he sliced a clearance up in the air, then headed it away. Bit later he tried an easy ball to K.Wallace which went out for a throw in. On 24 minutes he went for a header that he should have left for Baxter. Five minutes before the end he lost another challenge, which lead to a shot over.

Otherwise he was ok. He usually passes well, even when under pressure. 6/10

Peterborough's biggest chances - their goal when Freeman was unable to stop the tricky scorer and Edgar, our second defender, didn't help him. They had a free header from a free kick. On the stroke of half time Edgar back heeled a shot to their forward who had only the keeper to beat 6 yards out. Howard made a great save when a deep cross found their right winger (should Adams have tracked back, or K.Wallace moved over sooner?). James Wallace gave them a golden chance right before the final whistle when he chose not to clear.

I also want a new centre half as I think a stronger, more commanding type, maybe quicker as well, will give us more than McEveley and Collins' composure and experience. But there's a reason why Adkins has shown quite a bit of faith in both and let's be fair and objective when analysing their performances.

Like I said a surprise, but on the part of those of us (me included) who thought he had a poor game it may be confirmation bias at work ie you see what you're looking for and not what actually happened.

I respect Bergen's analysis, but it doesn't reflect my own memory of the game. I mentioned that each of the back 4 made at least one bad mistake, but it seemed crystal clear that McEveley not only made more (and less excusable) but generally looked uncomfortable on the ball – he of the four also seemed to handle the worsening weather conditions the poorest in my opinion.

I like to think I'm not prejudiced against any of our players, and was happy to give Adkins the benefit of the doubt on his captain decision. I personally think this is a slight misstep, but I'm hoping as the defence gets consistency so will McEveley in his new role. Adkins describes him as a model professional. I'm sure he is. But from seeing all 3 of our league games so far, I'm not convinced he's got the on-field leadership qualities, or the ability, to command a regular place in the team if we want to steam-roller this division. Indeed, with everyone fit there are probably 7 players that I'd pick ahead of him at left-back/centre-half (Edgar, Collins, Kennedy, Brayford, Basham are all better than him in the middle, Freeman & Harris better than him at left-back). I can't remember the last captain where their position on the face of it was so fragile.

 

[BeatleBlade]

I think to a degree it is confirmation bias. He is always singled out for criticism when for most part he isn't at fault for our goals we've conceded so far this year. He's not our best defender but he's certainly not as bad as people here think.
I believe Adkins is a fair man and he's not the sort to pick favourites like Clough appeared to with certain players. He saw who was at fault at Gillingham and has promptly dropped Long and McFadzean. If he believes McEverley isn't good enough he will get dropped. I trust his judgement and Bergen's for that matter.

 

[boo radley]

I'm quite happy with J Mc. when Bash was getting all the praise for those CB performances last season J Mc got him out of trouble many times. it seems like some just jump on another persons thoughts and then escalate it.

 

[Pinchy]

Everyone thought McEveley was fine until they decided Bladey favourite Kennedy had to be in the team. At that point J-Mac, the occupant of "Kennedy's place" had to become crap.

Simultaneously the manifestly obvious problems caused by having a small centre-half disappeared into thin air because Joe Shaw was only 4ft tall so that was OK as well.

The clear and urgent demand for two big, commanding powerhouses gave way to a revised requirement for one big commanding powerhouse to play alongside vertically-challenged Terry.

It's all so painfully transparent....

 

[Dkc]

Peer pressure is quite strong. If all your mates and fellow fans keep saying that someone is shit, chances are you will too and you'll join in the criticism. These players become a scapegoat, and the fan criticism can actually affect their performances. We've seen it with players such as Quinn and Monty whose time at the Lane is now looked back on quite fondly

 

[Revolution]

Everyone thought McEveley was fine until they decided Bladey favourite Kennedy had to be in the team. At that point J-Mac, the occupant of "Kennedy's place" had to become crap.

Simultaneously the manifestly obvious problems caused by having a small centre-half disappeared into thin air because Joe Shaw was only 4ft tall so that was OK as well.

The clear and urgent demand for two big, commanding powerhouses gave way to a revised requirement for one big commanding powerhouse to play alongside vertically-challenged Terry.

It's all so painfully transparent....

As long as you spout this crap, I'm going to keep repeating our league record with Kennedy in the side last season:

Won 6
Draw 3
Lost 1

Kennedy was in the team because we were desperate and Clough wouldn't pick Collins. He stayed in because the team played better with him in it.

It's all so painfully obvious.

 

[blade67]

I'm quite happy with J Mc. when Bash was getting all the praise for those CB performances last season J Mc got him out of trouble many times. it seems like some just jump on another persons thoughts and then escalate it.

In my opinion he definitely gets more stick than is deserved. In the first half of last season he played really well but after the Spurs penalty and especially after the shoulder injury he went off the boil. Overall I think he's a serious competitor to Harris as first choice left back and pretty decent cover at centre half. He's decent on the ball, quicker than most but not as good in the air as he should be given he's over six foot.

 

[Cyprus Blade]

I can't remember the last captain where their position on the face of it was so fragile

Mike Brierley comes to mind.(batting average 22.8 in tests)

Joe Shaw was only 4ft tall

Archaeological evidence refutes this as Welsh scientist Ivor Bigun used DNA traces from one of Shaw's shirts discovered in Ebay to prove he was 4' 1" tall in his woolly socks - a whole half inch taller than Kennedy.

If Adkins thinks McE is the right person to be club captain its fine with me as long as there is no expectation that he automatically gets to play because he is club captain. Doyle was club captain last season but that didn't mean he had an automatic place in the side. That sort of thing isn't particularly unusual. Adkins should, and I believe will, play the best combination available to him - unless its the JPT.

I think height is important for a CH (Alcock 5'8" v Swindon - playoffs was a huge mistake) but so is jumping and heading ability. Kennedy is 5'10", McE 6'0". McE doesn't seem to me to get the same power as Kennedy in his clearing headers and has a weaker positional sense for me. Kennedy has a much better spring. (Higdon is 6'1" - I think both would beat him in the air 99 out of 100 times). Kennedy's bigger problem for me is his seeming inability physically (knees) to play two matches a week and this will prevent him being anything other than a squad player. In truth I would like to see a new CH as ultimately neither are good enough to dominate week in week out.

 

[boo radley]

In my opinion he definitely gets more stick than is deserved. In the first half of last season he played really well but after the Spurs penalty and especially after the shoulder injury he went off the boil. Overall I think he's a serious competitor to Harris as first choice left back and pretty decent cover at centre half. He's decent on the ball, quicker than most but not as good in the air as he should be given he's over six foot.

What pisses me off us the talk up of Collins, probably by the same people who were slagging him off when he first came.
A measure of where we are so people should get over their prejudice and decide to support the players. Especially if it is a 'make do for now' situation. Can those who keep claiming he's making all these mistakes really tell me he means too?
Scougal against Chessie was shocking and Freeman and J Mc managed to get him out of many bad situations. He was not subbed first and the manager had faith enough to put him in against P borough.
That tells me that my focus on Scougals failings may have been off. Same with most people's judgements of J Mc.

 

[South London Blade]

Bergen Blade has analysed McEveley's performance against Peterborough. This is what he came up with. (I hope he doesn't mind me nicking it.) It surprised me.

Again I think McEveley's mistakes gets noticed more than other's, not sure why. There were quite a few times where we gave away possession dangerously, many players were guilty in this respect. McEveley was as well, on 34 minutes. It led to a free kick. Just before half time he also lost a header.

In the second half I noticed the one time he sliced a clearance up in the air, then headed it away. Bit later he tried an easy ball to K.Wallace which went out for a throw in. On 24 minutes he went for a header that he should have left for Baxter. Five minutes before the end he lost another challenge, which lead to a shot over.

Otherwise he was ok. He usually passes well, even when under pressure. 6/10

Peterborough's biggest chances - their goal when Freeman was unable to stop the tricky scorer and Edgar, our second defender, didn't help him. They had a free header from a free kick. On the stroke of half time Edgar back heeled a shot to their forward who had only the keeper to beat 6 yards out. Howard made a great save when a deep cross found their right winger (should Adams have tracked back, or K.Wallace moved over sooner?). James Wallace gave them a golden chance right before the final whistle when he chose not to clear.

I also want a new centre half as I think a stronger, more commanding type, maybe quicker as well, will give us more than McEveley and Collins' composure and experience. But there's a reason why Adkins has shown quite a bit of faith in both and let's be fair and objective when analysing their performances.

Like I said a surprise, but on the part of those of us (me included) who thought he had a poor game it may be confirmation bias at work ie you see what you're looking for and not what actually happened.

FYI I thought he wasn't too bad on Tuesday night. Beckenbauer he ain't, but he's not 'bombscare' bad.

In the second half he seemed to find JCR in the middle of the park with most of his passes out from the back.

 

[Houso]

There may well be an element of confirmation bias in there, but it's formed from a historical distrust of Jay as a first choice in a promotion chasing side. On the flip side, when he puts in a workmanlike performance (such as those last season), many will be say "SEE, HE'S GREAT AND SHOULD BE IN THE SIDE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE". It's what has become known as The Michael Doyle Coefficient.

I'm sure he's a lovely, dependable, hard-working bloke. And while others may make mistakes in the same game as Jay, they don't do this on quite a consistent basis. If he's in there as first choice for the season as a whole, we'll struggle to make the play-offs.

 

[Grecian2000]

He stayed in because the team played better with him in it.

He was the only player to average more than 2 points per game when playing at CB out of all those who gave it a go last season.
It's just so Bladey Blade to want more points per game.

 

[Pinchy]

As long as you spout this crap, I'm going to keep repeating our league record with Kennedy in the side last season:

Won 6
Draw 3
Lost 1

Kennedy was in the team because we were desperate and Clough wouldn't pick Collins. He stayed in because the team played better with him in it.

It's all so painfully obvious.

...and I'll keep repeating that there's a painfully obvious (everywhere but s2) reason why clubs at every level have giants at centre-half. If small centre-backs were the answer everyone would want one.

McEveley is far from perfect, but he's a decent footballer. He's the best left back we've got until Bob Harris gets back (Mighty McFadz having been found almost as wanting as Calamity George). He certainly wouldn't be my first choice as centre-half but neither would Our Tel, even with perfect knees.

The fact is we need further recruitment before we are properly equipped in that area. Luckily NA knows that and is working to address it. He also knows that central midfielders need to be taller than The Atom, but that's another story...

 

[bladesmanluke]

Do we know if Collins is going to be out of the game Saturday? I'd hate to lose to Blackpool

 

[Slim Man]

...and I'll keep repeating that there's a painfully obvious (everywhere but s2) reason why clubs at every level have giants at centre-half. If small centre-backs were the answer everyone would want one.

People do.

Otamendi has just gone to Man City for £35mil at barely 6"0

 

[Deleted member 875]

...and I'll keep repeating that there's a painfully obvious (everywhere but s2) reason why clubs at every level have giants at centre-half. If small centre-backs were the answer everyone would want one.

McEveley is far from perfect, but he's a decent footballer. He's the best left back we've got until Bob Harris gets back (Mighty McFadz having been found almost as wanting as Calamity George). He certainly wouldn't be my first choice as centre-half but neither would Our Tel, even with perfect knees.

The fact is we need further recruitment before we are properly equipped in that area. Luckily NA knows that and is working to address it. He also knows that central midfielders need to be taller than The Atom, but that's another story...

This is the ideal centre half to me.

One player should be to head everything, kick everything that moves, challenge for everything and when it possession of the ball ensure it gets shifted to a position where the danger from the opposition is removed. Also the ability to put a reducer on to an opponent without giving away a foul and drawing censure from the referee is also to be desired.

Out of all the occupants last season, Terry Kennedy came the closest to being the perfect match to all this criteria.

 

[Slim Man]

Wallace looked good the other day at left back. Good left foot and looks beyond his years in the way he plays the game.
Would like to see him there saturday, if that means having to play McEveley at centre half so be it.

Or maybe even Wallace at centre back and McEveley at centre back, he played there in pre season and did well.

Don't think it really matters against Blackpool to be honest, as long as everyone is playing at least 6/10 we will cruise it.

 

[Revolution]

...and I'll keep repeating that there's a painfully obvious (everywhere but s2) reason why clubs at every level have giants at centre-half. If small centre-backs were the answer everyone would want one.

McEveley is far from perfect, but he's a decent footballer. He's the best left back we've got until Bob Harris gets back (Mighty McFadz having been found almost as wanting as Calamity George). He certainly wouldn't be my first choice as centre-half but neither would Our Tel, even with perfect knees.

The fact is we need further recruitment before we are properly equipped in that area. Luckily NA knows that and is working to address it. He also knows that central midfielders need to be taller than The Atom, but that's another story...

You keep missing the point (presumably deliberately).

I agree that a taller centre half could be preferable to Kennedy, if he's any good.

My point is that Kennedy was our best option last season, and we did well with him in the team.

You say that people only rate him because of your Bladey Bladeness theory. This is not true. People rate him because he did well and we did well.

Am I not saying it right?

 

[Rodders]

...and I'll keep repeating that there's a painfully obvious (everywhere but s2) reason why clubs at every level have giants at centre-half. If small centre-backs were the answer everyone would want one.

McEveley is far from perfect, but he's a decent footballer. He's the best left back we've got until Bob Harris gets back (Mighty McFadz having been found almost as wanting as Calamity George). He certainly wouldn't be my first choice as centre-half but neither would Our Tel, even with perfect knees.

The fact is we need further recruitment before we are properly equipped in that area. Luckily NA knows that and is working to address it. He also knows that central midfielders need to be taller than The Atom, but that's another story...

Big lads at the back also help attacking-wise, when you need to gerritinbox on a cavalry charge.

Once again Pinch, you're so anti Bladey-Blade you're full circle. Pinchy <3 hoof.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

You keep missing the point (presumably deliberately).

I agree that a taller centre half could be preferable to Kennedy, if he's any good.

My point is that Kennedy was our best option last season, and we did well with him in the team.

You say that people only rate him because of your Bladey Bladeness theory. This is not true. People rate him because he did well and we did well.

Am I not saying it right?

It's not height, it's ability. It's probably easier to be a good centre half if you're over 6', but I'll wheel out the Cannavaro example again. Apparently he was 5' 8.

Are we really saying we should sign a worse-but-taller player?

Fwiw I think Kennedy was very good when he played, despite his obvious Bladiness. The evidence of results supports this.

 

[Revolution]

It's not height, it's ability. It's probably easier to be a good centre half if you're over 6', but I'll wheel out the Cannavaro example again. Apparently he was 5' 8.

Are we really saying we should sign a worse-but-taller player?.

I'm not saying that, which is why I said that a taller centre back might be preferable to Kennedy if he's any good.

I have no idea whether Pinchy thinks this.

 

[coaxingstar71]

Yes, lets hope we haven't stooped so low that the criteria for getting in the team is that you are tall or can jump high.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

I'm not saying that, which is why I said that a taller centre back might be preferable to Kennedy if he's any good.

I have no idea whether Pinchy thinks this.

But again with the taller.

Isn't it just better that matters?

 

[HeCanDoMagic]

I'm quite happy with J Mc. when Bash was getting all the praise for those CB performances last season J Mc got him out of trouble many times. it seems like some just jump on another persons thoughts and then escalate it.

I totally agree with you, he's like Beckenbauer...!

 

[Revolution]

But again with the taller.

Isn't it just better that matters?

Oh for crying out loud.

If there are 2 centre halves who are more or less of the same ability, I will pick the taller one, because that makes it easier to mark people at set pieces or score goals.

If the shorter one is the much better player, I would choose him.

 

[SandyMcBlade]

I think it's an insult to Nigel Atkins saying McEverley should never play C/half or be captain, if that's what he decides to do he's done it for a reason..
I just hope it's not to build up McEverlys confidence because with some fans he's got no chance of doing that ..

PS
Joe Shaw was 5' 8"

 

[1danewhitehouse]

People refer to height being important in a centre half but that’s because height implies aerial ability. However, there are exceptions to the rule. When we signed Kevin McDonald, he seemed to shrink when he went for a header whilst the much smaller Nick Montgomery won far more when they played together. Tel’s not the tallest but he’s very good in the air. He has the spring, anticipation and bravery to more than handle himself. Mr Morgs was only 5”11 I believe and got the better of nearly every opponent in aerial duels.


McEveley is just about 6 foot but nowhere near as dominant in the air due to a lack of anticipation, spring and strength. When high balls come his way he looks vulnerable and at full stretch far too often. He often wrestles forwards (and loses). I actually think he’s quite good at playing out from the back but defensively is an accident waiting to happen. Less so at left back though.

People also say he was great up to the Spurs game. He wasn’t. Look back to that poor run we had around November time where McEveley conceded the free kick for MK Dons to beat us at the lane, conceded at penalty at the lane against Plymouth, got mugged oh so easily by Jonathan Forte for Oldham’s goal at the lane. That’s all prior to the Spurs game. He did have some good games there as well (Southampton, QPR etc) but over time, the games where he made a rick that cost us a goal began to far outweigh his good performances. At full back, you get away with that a bit more and don’t tend to get bullied by physical forwards. I think he’s adequate at full back. I prefer Harris or Freeman when they are available to play there but can see the merit of playing McEveley behind the adventurous Adams as he’s more likely to tuck in and hold position whereas Harris and Freeman like to get forward potentially leaving us exposed. He’d therefore be in my team for now with the options that are available.

I have no problem with Adkins making him captain so long as it doesn’t give him immunity from being dropped when better players become available. Some people can’t see why he would be made captain being such a seemingly meek player. However, there’s often more to these decisions than meets the eye. I’m currently reading “The Gaffer”, Neil Warnock’s follow up to “Made in Sheffield”. He talks a lot about his time at QPR and his handling of Adel Taarabt. He cited Taarabt as a player that could win them promotion with his ability but there were huge issues regarding his attitude and application. He talked about how he made him captain despite having the likes of Hill and Derry who would seem like more obvious choices. The reasoning was that Hill or Derry didn’t need an armband to perform the role of a captain whereas the armband might instil a greater sense of responsibility to the team in Taarabt and help get the best out of him. He also had to persuade the senior players to indulge Taarabt’s tantrums and lack of work rate in order for him to use his individual brilliance to propel the team to the Premier League. I know this isn’t a comparable case as McEveley isn’t some brilliantly skilful maverick but it does give an insight to the sort of alternative reasoning used by managers when making these sort of decisions.