Train Station Pushing - policing yesterday

[FSF]

Isn't a complaint to the police commissioner the correct route for fans to take, he his paid to keep the police in line isn't he?

It's also about time the club made a very public statement about how it's customers, the majority who are well behaved get treated by the boys in blue, at least it could start a very public debate on the subject.

No, the PCC doesn't take complaints on issues like these.

 

[BornOnShorehamStreet]

So they can get overtime + travel to come down from Durham for a minor South Yorkshire football game? What were SYPD up to? Not going after groomers in Rotherham, that's for sure. I blame the Tories and these 'savage cuts' to the police numbers.

I blame human beings for being lying, thieving, cheating bastards who have no self-control and no self-discipline.

Otherwise we wouldn't need a police force

 

[HillmortonBlade]

I blame human beings for being lying, thieving, cheating bastards who have no self-control and no self-discipline.

Otherwise we wouldn't need a police force

The police chase liars and thieves? News to me, thought they had given up that to concentrate on social engineering and obstructing the highways around football grounds.

 

[SwissBlade]

With Health and Safety and the dangers involved , why dont they revert back to chucking toilet rolls as streamers , like they did in the 70s. Lot safer especially the type with that puppy advert

UTB

Not just the 70's, right up to the 90's... I think this came to an end when MacDonalds changed from bog roll to toilet tissues... I bet even Argos don't leave the wads of paper slips out anymore!

 

[raul]

Not just the 70's, right up to the 90's... I think this came to an end when MacDonalds changed from bog roll to toilet tissues... I bet even Argos don't leave the wads of paper slips out anymore!

Thats where you buy all your jewellry that is.

 

[Bladebri]

Putting
Our
Liberty
In
Chaos
Every day

 

[grafikhaus]

Are you forgetting there was gargantuan crowd at Hillsborough to deal with, thanks to great fixture planning?

True. I'm definitely no 'police-hater' but they certainly don't help themselves.
I've long been of the opinion that the police deliberately foment trouble to justify their (overtime-rich) attendance at football matches. The deliberate 'kettling', the erection of 'hate walls', the planned release of away fans into Bramall Lane straight after the final whistle (and don't bother with the Yooman Rights schtick. Is it a person's Yooman Right to get their wife/kids embroiled in a ruck?)

But when they're really needed, such as Millwall at Rotherham the other week, what do the cops do? Fuck off and leave it to the stewards.
Obviously the 'strategic planners' at SYPD didn't think a visit of Millwall was 'high risk'.

 

[HillmortonBlade]

True. I'm definitely no 'police-hater' but they certainly don't help themselves.
I've long been of the opinion that the police deliberately foment trouble to justify their (overtime-rich) attendance at football matches. The deliberate 'kettling', the erection of 'hate walls', the planned release of away fans into Bramall Lane straight after the final whistle (and don't bother with the Yooman Rights schtick. Is it a person's Yooman Right to get their wife/kids embroiled in a ruck?)

But when they're really needed, such as Millwall at Rotherham the other week, what do the cops do? Fuck off and leave it to the stewards.
Obviously the 'strategic planners' at SYPD didn't think a visit of Millwall was 'high risk'.

Agree with this. I find it increasingly difficult to support the police. I know they have utter rubbish to deal with, and I would ring them if I needed them as quick as I could. But I can't remember the last time I had a positive interaction with a police officer. And the recent major corruption/wilful blindness of SYP has seriously undermined confidence. The only confidence I have is that I am sure they are not the only force to have f**ked up so badly, but it's only them and the Met that have been caught out so far.

 

[SwissBlade]

Thats where you buy all your jewellry that is.

I wish I'd bought the engagement ring for the ex from there!

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

No, the PCC doesn't take complaints on issues like these.

I find that astounding, what do we pay them for?

 

[Dalelane01]

A couple of thousand fans at the train station yesterday. Plod were locking the doors to the train station so if (when) there was pushing people didn't get pushed onto the platform. To make matters worse, about 100 coppers were stood in a line funneling people in from the road into the narrow doorway.

First couple of trains left without incident, there seemed to be a hold up for the third. Everyone was getting a bit irate, being there for an hour with little to no movement. I think those at the back thought those of us at the front were being held up by a line of police and started pushing. Those right at the front went face first into the glass doors, there were a few kids around me (including mine) and thankfully the fans around us around started pushing back to create some room for them and helped them over to the wall where there was less pressure, and eventually behind a door (for which I am very grateful).

This had the potential to turn nasty. I think the only reason no punches were thrown is because those crushed knew it wasn't people directly behind responsible.

Still, it was dangerous, and could have easily gone very wrong (the police knew this, because there were pulling the kids aside once inside the station and asking them if they were okay and needed a drink). I'm not blaming those who didn't open the doors (who probably prevented a worse situation from occurring), but the plod who were in a line and filtering fans into the station should have broke up/backed off and allowed the crowd some room, especially as many people were looking to leave the queue anyway!

And those pushing need to grow up (I saw one fat twat heaving into the crowd in front of him as hard as he could). We already know how badly a situation like this could end! Did you even save 1 second off your journey home? Just stupidity!

South yorks police couldnt organize a raffle

 

[Deleted member 1486]

I blame human beings for being lying, thieving, cheating bastards who have no self-control and no self-discipline.

Otherwise we wouldn't need a police force

This is unquestionably true, but to counter that, we also need to be able to hold the police accountable, above and beyond how we might judge other civilians. They are human, with the same failings and lack of self-control/discipline/etc as the rest of us. They are handed power, trust and responsibilities that demand we hold them to a higher degree of scrutiny than (almost) anyone else in society.

I wrote on here before the game and said I was surprised at the level of policing and the pre-match warnings. I hadn't cottoned on to anything before the game that suggested this fixture needed an army to police it. It seems there was surprise all around when the warnings went up on Friday, besides, does it even need to be pointed out that disorder won't be tolerated? I think that's a given! Both sets of supporters seem to be in agreement that Saturday was a massive overreaction and completely unnecessary. The cynic in me wonders if there was some mutual overtime back-slapping going off and if SY police were at Sunderland yesterday?

I think it is right that we (football supporters across divides) should be asking these sorts of questions. Being concerned at the levels and methods of policing (and ultimately, a loss of your civil liberties!) does not equate to being anti-police.

 

[grafikhaus]

This is unquestionably true, but to counter that, we also need to be able to hold the police accountable, above and beyond how we might judge other civilians. They are human, with the same failings and lack of self-control/discipline/etc as the rest of us. They are handed power, trust and responsibilities that demand we hold them to a higher degree of scrutiny than (almost) anyone else in society.

I wrote on here before the game and said I was surprised at the level of policing and the pre-match warnings. I hadn't cottoned on to anything before the game that suggested this fixture needed an army to police it. It seems there was surprise all around when the warnings went up on Friday, besides, does it even need to be pointed out that disorder won't be tolerated? I think that's a given! Both sets of supporters seem to be in agreement that Saturday was a massive overreaction and completely unnecessary. The cynic in me wonders if there was some mutual overtime back-slapping going off and if SY police were at Sunderland yesterday?

I think it is right that we (football supporters across divides) should be asking these sorts of questions. Being concerned at the levels and methods of policing (and ultimately, a loss of your civil liberties!) does not equate to being anti-police.

Spot on. At the moment, there's daily reports from Court re. the Hillsborough Enquiry and it's obvious that the police are - and were - put into situations they simply weren't trained for. Wise-after-the-event lawyers can easily pontificate on whether fans should have been sent down that central gangway at Leppings Lane, but it's easy from your armchair, isn't it?

I reckon that's why 'searches' are so cursory. The police actually don't mind if somebody lobs a flare. It perpetuates the myth that all football fans are animals and heavy-handed treatment (and overtime) is justified. But, Mister Policeman, if it all goes wrong (as it could have at the railway station on Saturday) don't think your Superintendents, Commanders, Sergeants etc. will back you up. They'll look after Number One. Remember that the next time you're roughing up football fans.

 

[Linz]

I've just sent my email in, also asking for a member of the Police force with decision-making authority to attend our next SLO meeting to justify the rationale behind our treatment.

I wasn't at the station after the game, so I would urge anyone who was to pop a email through to Amanda or [email protected]

The Police's opinion of football fans apparently is that we are illiterate scum, too thick to challenge their authority and too disorganised to make a difference. Until we show them otherwise, this view will prevail.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

 

[FSF]

I've just sent my email in, also asking for a member of the Police force with decision-making authority to attend our next SLO meeting to justify the rationale behind our treatment.

I wasn't at the station after the game, so I would urge anyone who was to pop a email through to Amanda or [email protected]

The Police's opinion of football fans apparently is that we are illiterate scum, too thick to challenge their authority and too disorganised to make a difference. Until we show them otherwise, this view will prevail.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Thank you Linz, and if you'd like a chat (ahead of any meeting) feel free to give me a call on 07703519555.

There are some excellent points made on here and again I'd urge those effected to get in touch with their observations. The more that do, the more of a case can be made. Some excellent progress has been made around the country in terms of both policing and dialogue with fans and the input of supporters has been vital to that progress.

 

[Deleted member 1486]

I've just sent my email in, also asking for a member of the Police force with decision-making authority to attend our next SLO meeting to justify the rationale behind our treatment.

I wasn't at the station after the game, so I would urge anyone who was to pop a email through to Amanda or [email protected]

The Police's opinion of football fans apparently is that we are illiterate scum, too thick to challenge their authority and too disorganised to make a difference. Until we show them otherwise, this view will prevail.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Will do (e-mail), I was going to do it yesterday but was on the iPad.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

I've just sent my email in, also asking for a member of the Police force with decision-making authority to attend our next SLO meeting to justify the rationale behind our treatment.

I wasn't at the station after the game, so I would urge anyone who was to pop a email through to Amanda or [email protected]

The Police's opinion of football fans apparently is that we are illiterate scum, too thick to challenge their authority and too disorganised to make a difference. Until we show them otherwise, this view will prevail.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Thank you Linz, and if you'd like a chat (ahead of any meeting) feel free to give me a call on 07703519555.

There are some excellent points made on here and again I'd urge those effected to get in touch with their observations. The more that do, the more of a case can be made. Some excellent progress has been made around the country in terms of both policing and dialogue with fans and the input of supporters has been vital to that progress.

Is this an opportunity to get SWFC, Barnsley, Donny and Rotherham involved with plod to make it a public debate on how football fans are treated.

Surely SYP would be open to this considering they are in danger of going down the pan financially once Hillsborough is concluded?

 

[Linz]

Is this an opportunity to get SWFC, Barnsley, Donny and Rotherham involved with plod to make it a public debate on how football fans are treated.

Surely SYP would be open to this considering they are in danger of going down the pan financially once Hillsborough is concluded?

It might be something the SLOs would be able to arrange, as there was talk at the previous meeting of there being greater contact between the local liaison officers in a best-practice sharing kind of way. The only danger being that as employees of the Clubs in most cases, they might not feel too able to rock the boat.

As soon as football fans are mentioned around here, both to the Police and to the Safety Advisory Group, their initial response is "Hillsborough". The way the inquest is going, we'll soon be able to turn round and say "yes, that was your fault. So how are you going to move forward?"

 

[katedeluxe91]

Having been there it was utterly shambolic. As with many people it wasn't so much the wait but the fact that no information was being provided despite the ever growing crowds and the fact that it was clearly close to getting ugly at various points. I was quite near the doors at a corner with a wall which quickly became a 'safe zone' during the pushing as small children and one crying mother were pushed from side to side. I saw children being lifted above the crowds to avoid being pushed up against brick walls (which happened to me) and when were let into the station a woman near me with leg trouble was being pushed right up against the edges of the station door while all the police did was say "try to walk slowly" before I was literally pushed further into a train. Despite the obviously high numbers of crowds there seemed to be no forward planning, especially as online travel advice for away supporters suggested that the train would be the best bet as it would take a long time to get out of the car park. I enjoyed the day at Barnsley, but I question whether I'd want to go there again. Being pushed around in the hot sun with a bag being pulled against my neck was just about tolerable after the win, but I can't help thinking that had the result gone differently and there was more aggression in the air that it could have got much uglier and there didn't seem to be a system to prevent it. One bonus was that it made me appreciate Sheffield train station and Sheffield city centre a lot more.

 

[FleaPitBlade]

It's my view, as a friend and relative of a few coppers (not SY) that for the most part, common sense and policing the situation accordingly is very much not allowed at football matches. Orders and 'intelligence' come from high up and the guys on the ground are there to enforce and uphold it. They're turned into Robocops and there is no 'is this man pissed and/or a hooligan' personal judgement allowed.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

I find that astounding, what do we pay them for?

So we can pretend the police are accountable and we don't have to worry. That's worth a few bob of anyone's money.

And officially I believe it's the IPCC just in case we were in any doubt about its Independence.

 

[Junior Soduko]

I'll never forget when my mate got twatted right in the face by some utter imbecile at wembley.

I went and told the nearest police officer, who's reply was "as it has happened inside the stadium, we have no jurisdiction, go and tell a steward."

From then on, i've lost all confidence and hold no hope that football fans will ever be treated like any other citizen.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

Hello, this is Amanda Jacks and I'm the caseworker for the Football Supporters' Federation. Part of my role is to assist supporters who may have cause to complain about policing or stewarding. A number of you have already been in touch with your experiences yesterday and I'd really like to hear from more of you. All accounts will be received and treated in confidence.

When situations such as these have arisen before, I've compiled accounts and sent them to the relevant police forces (or clubs where applicable) asking that they consider the feedback from supporters when planning future matches and also provide a transparent explanation as to tactics.

I don't pretend to have a magic wand and can understand there may be cynicism with regard to getting in touch but as others have said why should you tolerate such policing "just because" it's football. Until fans become more vociferous the harder it will be to achieve change.

My email is [email protected]

Thanks for this. Just emailed re

1) Provocative approach beforehand - "warning" fans
2) Ridiculous numbers of police - and resultant expense.

We saw what was happening at the station and decided to stay in Barnsley for a couple of hours.

Here's the BBC article from before the game http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-32173896:

Police have warned football fans going to a South Yorkshire derby match to behave or face "robust action".
[...]
Chief Supt David Hartley said: "If you are caught engaging in anti-social behaviour or other criminality, you will be dealt with robustly and are likely to face arrest."

Mr Hartley is either out of his depth, or out to impress his superiors. An alternative, constructive approach would have been to wish both sets of fans an enjoyable day on an important occasion for both clubs instead of stoking up tension, and deal with disorder if and when it arose.

And it's no defence to say it worked bc there was no disorder.

 

[HillmortonBlade]

Thanks for this. Just emailed re

1) Provocative approach beforehand - "warning" fans
2) Ridiculous numbers of police - and resultant expense.

We saw what was happening at the station and decided to stay in Barnsley for a couple of hours.

Here's the BBC article from before the game http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-32173896:

Police have warned football fans going to a South Yorkshire derby match to behave or face "robust action".
[...]
Chief Supt David Hartley said: "If you are caught engaging in anti-social behaviour or other criminality, you will be dealt with robustly and are likely to face arrest."

Mr Hartley is either out of his depth, or out to impress his superiors. An alternative, constructive approach would have been to wish both sets of fans an enjoyable day on an important occasion for both clubs instead of stoking up tension, and deal with disorder if and when it arose.

And it's no defence to say it worked bc there was no disorder.

Funnily enough, other people need to be treated "proportionately" by the police, but "robustly" if you are a football fan, or "not at all" if you are a child abuser in Sheffield/Rotherham/Rochdale/Oxford/and so on and so on. I've done enough training courses to know that conflict resolution starts with not using threats as a tactic to reduce perceived other threats. How smart do you have to be to get to Chief Supt? Not very, apparently.

 

[Pollingtonblade]

South Yorkshire Police are total and utter scum, Orgreave, Hillsboro and Rotherham. I'm astounded at the heavy handedness against football fans in our region wheras if your a nonce in the Rotherham area this is ok.

 

[HillmortonBlade]

South Yorkshire Police are total and utter scum, Orgreave, Hillsboro and Rotherham. I'm astounded at the heavy handedness against football fans in our region wheras if your a nonce in the Rotherham area this is ok.

It's blunt, it's to the point, it's a bit harsh on the decent coppers... but it's also hard to disagree with...

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

No, the PCC doesn't take complaints on issues like these.

It might be something the SLOs would be able to arrange, as there was talk at the previous meeting of there being greater contact between the local liaison officers in a best-practice sharing kind of way. The only danger being that as employees of the Clubs in most cases, they might not feel too able to rock the boat.

As soon as football fans are mentioned around here, both to the Police and to the Safety Advisory Group, their initial response is "Hillsborough". The way the inquest is going, we'll soon be able to turn round and say "yes, that was your fault. So how are you going to move forward?"

This guys statement of intent would have been more use if printed on soft paper.

http://www.southyorkshire-pcc.gov.uk/About/About-Your-PCC.aspx]

My role and priorities as your Police and Crime Commissioner
I will work to bring about real change in South Yorkshire Police so that the public’s trust in them can start to be rebuilt. I want to see a police force that is more responsive to the public and that puts victims first.

Epic fail.

 

[djbaldken]

I'll never forget when my mate got twatted right in the face by some utter imbecile at wembley.

I went and told the nearest police officer, who's reply was "as it has happened inside the stadium, we have no jurisdiction, go and tell a steward."

From then on, i've lost all confidence and hold no hope that football fans will ever be treated like any other citizen.

Wonder what he would have done if you had twatted him inside the stadium.? Would he have had to get a steward to arrest you? Just asking.

 

[HillmortonBlade]

we have no jurisdiction

Just like Rotherham private hire cabs then

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Just like Rotherham private hire cabs then

I've just sent my email in, also asking for a member of the Police force with decision-making authority to attend our next SLO meeting to justify the rationale behind our treatment.

I wasn't at the station after the game, so I would urge anyone who was to pop a email through to Amanda or [email protected]

The Police's opinion of football fans apparently is that we are illiterate scum, too thick to challenge their authority and too disorganised to make a difference. Until we show them otherwise, this view will prevail.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Thank you Linz, and if you'd like a chat (ahead of any meeting) feel free to give me a call on 07703519555.

There are some excellent points made on here and again I'd urge those effected to get in touch with their observations. The more that do, the more of a case can be made. Some excellent progress has been made around the country in terms of both policing and dialogue with fans and the input of supporters has been vital to that progress.

Doncaster away was without problems under the watchful eyes of the same boys in blue, why?