SUFC :August 2013

[Woodwardfan]

Suggest we remind ourselves how we were fixed before the new owner arrived.

McCabe had declared earlier in the year that he was putting an end to subsidising losses at the club. He maintained he had been coughing up to the tune of 1m per month since demotion to league 1. From the new season the club had to pay its own way.

Weir was appointed on that basis and his new signings reflected austerity. The declared way forward was youth development as a means to progress the club. There was an implied suggestion that sales of young players were essential to pay our way, IMO.

Right out of the blue we gain a new owner. The timing was crazy a nd Weir must have been gobsmacked. He had set about a long term project and Iife was suddenly different.

Because the club suddenly had cash, the pressures on Weir multiplied. Because we had cash Weir was sacked and we were able to attract Clough and his band of merry men.

Financially Ihe club is now totally stable; behind the scenes all the unglamorous things are all being done without financial constraints. The manager has a sensible wage budget and we have an experienced big squad, well capable of lasting the promotion race.

I am certain many fans did not fully grasp the seriousness of KM' s strategy last August. The arrival of the Prince has given us some chance of digging ourselves out of the proverbial. However it just doesn't happen instantly and Clough has to earn the right for the club to get back where we believe they belong.

 

[Hague Blade]

A lot of what you say is true, and I think many if not most of the fans would agree that the club seems more stable (the Ched palaver aside). But you also need to recognise that as long as the performances remain as turgid as what we saw tonight and the play so uninspiring - three straight blanks now - few will care about that stability.

This debate's been had before - we don't get points for paying the bills on time - and people will only start to get onside with your SUFC 2013 idea when there are real signs that we look as though we're heading out of this division and back into the Championship. Being asked to show patience and trust in Clough is all very well, but that patience and trust needs repaying - and quickly. It may not be fair, and NC may be subject to all sorts of pressures and constraints that we can't see, but that's the reality.

 

[Woodwardfan]

A lot of what you say is true, and I think many if not most of the fans would agree that the club seems more stable (the Ched palaver aside). But you also need to recognise that as long as the performances remain as turgid as what we saw tonight and the play so uninspiring - three straight blanks now - few will care about that stability.

This debate's been had before - we don't get points for paying the bills on time - and people will only start to get onside with your SUFC 2013 idea when there are real signs that we look as though we're heading out of this division and back into the Championship. Being asked to show patience and trust in Clough is all very well, but that patience and trust needs repaying - and quickly. It may not be fair, and NC may be subject to all sorts of pressures and constraints that we can't see, but that's the reality.

Fully agree Hague. Come what may a board is only as good as its appointed managers.

However success is not usually instant, and when it is it rarely lasts. There are many examples of rewards for boards who showed patience with managers they knew would come good.

Is Clough good enough and big enough to do this massive job? None of us really know but personally I am still of the opinion that he has done well in cups and even the league to date ( last season included) and he's as good a pedigree as we have a right to expect at this level. This Is not Fantasy Manager it's the real world.

 

[wardonia_blade]

It seems to be generally recognised that it takes the bigger clubs 3 years to get out of this league. Leeds took 3 years despite having Beckford banging in 30-35 goals each season. Wolves were an exception as not many have premier parachute payments to oil the wheels.

IMO, our 3 years starts at the beginning of this season, due to the reasons WF has set out. Financial stability is vitally important. It doesn't gain points....but it doesn't take them away either.

Our first 3 years in this league were a disjointed mess with no continuity from season to season.

However, we are now starting to establish a pattern of play, several academy players are on the fringe plus the financials as mentioned. Stage 1 in this 3-year process.

We may short-cut this through the play-offs, but patience and trust in this manager are required now.

 

[Revolution]

It seems to be generally recognised that it takes the bigger clubs 3 years to get out of this league. Leeds took 3 years despite having Beckford banging in 30-35 goals each season. Wolves were an exception as not many have premier parachute payments to oil the wheels.

IMO, our 3 years starts at the beginning of this season, due to the reasons WF has set out.

Well, you can't count, because our 3 years started in the 2011-12 season. Look it up.

Our first year wasn't a disjointed mess. It was an excellent season ruined at the last by a number of factors beyond the club's control, most notably the actions of the idiot the board are now going out of their way to help for reasons that escape me. As things stand at the moment, we will not do as well as we did that year.

And I'd have a lot more sympathy for the argument that it's a new era if McCabe was no longer involved. He is involved. And I would not be in the least bit surprised if he was driving the Evans rehabilition.

And playoffs? That'll be the day.

 

[wizadry]

IMO, our 3 years starts at the beginning of this season,

Please,please,please,may you be wrong.Why,upon year upon year,do we always have to make it out like we're starting all over again.And why do we have to bring threads up all the time about McCabe,the one person who has got us into this mess,and the one person who seems reluctant to get us out of it.

This has been discussed tenfold all ready,you don't need to keep bringing it up.

Another 3 years in this league and we'll be lucky to get 10k crowds,meaning even less money coming in,this would be unthinkable,to see what would happen to our club if we are in this league for atleast another 3 years.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Please,please,please,may you be wrong.Why,upon year upon year,do we always have to make it out like we're starting all over again.And why do we have to bring threads up all the time about McCabe,the one person who has got us into this mess,and the one person who seems reluctant to get us out of it.

This has been discussed tenfold all ready,you don't need to keep bringing it up.

Another 3 years in this league and we'll be lucky to get 10k crowds,meaning even less money coming in,this would be unthinkable,to see what would happen to our club if we are in this league for atleast another 3 years.

Sorry Wiz, the points I'm making are designed to show KM IS not the issue. The whole point of my SUFC2013 message is that this is a new era. KM will be out of here over the next few years.

All the comments about 2007, Beattie, et al are history. All that matters is what the Prince does, unless KM has misjudged him!!

The op refers to KM only to show exactly how the new owner has improved things. I maintain its leaped forward on the pitch compared to the KM/ Weir period, but not enough fans remember that far back it seems.

I agree, forget KM, judge the new era, and its early days.

 

[Revolution]

Sorry Wiz, the points I'm making are designed to show KM IS not the issue. The whole point of my SUFC2013 message is that this is a new era. KM will be out of here over the next few years.

He is an issue and will remain one whilst he is connected with the club.

 

[Esablade]

So just to play along a little...does anyone think 'the game changing investment' might be dependent on the Prince taking full ownership?

I'm glad the Prince came on board because we were heading down a one way street with McCabe and that wasn't pretty.

Things have stabilised and we have actually paid for some players...we'd all like more .

 

[OllyBlade]

Clough has a contract until the end of next season. As far as I'm concerned, no extension should be offered until promotion is secured and if that means the contract runs out then we look elsewhere. Only a dog gives trust blindly. Why should we give ourselves over to some 3 year 'abstraction' if there's no progress? We have been finishing lower in the pyramid every season since 2008-9. Clough simply has to arrest that trend to be worth the 'patience' some say we should show.

 

[pommpey]

Sick of excuse-mongers and optimists rinsing the shit out of the clothing we wear these days as a football club. It's bollocks, and no amount of 'trust in Clough', 'give the board a chance' hand wringing will ameliroate the fact that we are a sub optimal, underperforming outfit with a sqaud of players way below the expectations of the supporters, themselves blessed with memories of Sheffield United as a better organisation and team. Don't believe me? Go watch last night's game again and tell me that Walsall's central defence pairing were run ragged by Chris Porter, a man I would struggle to pick for HMS Sultan's 2nd XI, a team I used to manage and train some years back. This man is one of our strike options - one of four or five people who couldn't hit a fucking elephant's arse from two inches with a tennis bat. Does this three year plan of theirs include returning Sheffield United to the top flight as soon as possible as well? Because I heard them say something like that as well. Doesn’t hold much water though, because our illustrious strikeforce has amassed a mighty total of fifteen of the twenty seven goals we have scored this season. Four of them are from a bloke we’d more rightly classify as an attacking midfielder, but these days he can’t be much arsed to do even that. People cite, “But Clough has signed players this season” but they can’t tell me exactly how much he has spent, given we have binned a keystone player in our defence for a considerable amount and sit on the cash in the bank. And, more importantly … the crowning turd in the water-closet (to paraphrase General Melchett Blackadder IV) we apparently have some sort of Saudi bloke on the board who is investing in the club, yet I don’t see much evidence of this.

Face it. We are stuck in this division until McCabe somehow gets his cash back and fucks off. Big Blade that he is.

pommpey

 

[Kenilworth]

Not sure if I have mentioned this before but we are still a couple of decent strikers short of a half decent team (and I don't mean the answer is the Welsh fuckwit and his baggage)

It makes no difference whether KM is still here or not, whether NC is the manager or not - with NC we play a tight game with some possession football in the middle third of the pitch but we have nothing to show in the final third and will be susceptible to the sucker punch time and time again (Barnsley)

Unless we address the striker issue that is blindingly obvious to all, surely, we are going absolutely fucking nowhere.

 

[wardonia_blade]

Well, you can't count, because our 3 years started in the 2011-12 season. Look it up.

Our first year wasn't a disjointed mess. It was an excellent season ruined at the last by a number of factors beyond the club's control, most notably the actions of the idiot the board are now going out of their way to help for reasons that escape me. As things stand at the moment, we will not do as well as we did that year.

And I'd have a lot more sympathy for the argument that it's a new era if McCabe was no longer involved. He is involved. And I would not be in the least bit surprised if he was driving the Evans rehabilition.

And playoffs? That'll be the day.

 

[blade too long]

I was of the opinion mccabe had lost interest before the prince came but with someone to at last take some of the onus offorking out off him hes been revitalised , I thought unswervingly we were heading in the right direction , got to say hope last night was a blip because the display was totally devoid of any revitalisation ,, if the players cant feel the positivity we are fecked, roll on saturday and hopefully a better display .

 

[Bladesway]

Please,please,please,may you be wrong.Why,upon year upon year,do we always have to make it out like we're starting all over again.And why do we have to bring threads up all the time about McCabe,the one person who has got us into this mess,and the one person who seems reluctant to get us out of it.

This has been discussed tenfold all ready,you don't need to keep bringing it up.

Another 3 years in this league and we'll be lucky to get 10k crowds,meaning even less money coming in,this would be unthinkable,to see what would happen to our club if we are in this league for atleast another 3 years.

Its like a bloody abusive relationship. "Please lets start over, I won't abuse you again"
"OK, lets do that, will anything change?"
"How dare you question me you silly twat, thwack".

Nothing looks to be changing but according to some if you look really hard you can see a difference. I'm sorry but I'm looking really hard and all I see is the same old shit dressed up in the clothes of different men. They fake Sheikh isn't around to care and his representative in Sheffield is a well meaning spin doctor, leaving McCabe in actual charge calling the shots. I want to be wrong so much it hurts but I need to see something different and I don't.

 

[Woodwardfan]

I am making a big effort to divert the debate from " wind and piss from the board", " credibility of the board"

Its like a bloody abusive relationship. "Please lets start over, I won't abuse you again"
"OK, lets do that, will anything change?"
"How dare you question me you silly twat, thwack".

Nothing looks to be changing but according to some if you look really hard you can see a difference. I'm sorry but I'm looking really hard and all I see is the same old shit dressed up in the clothes of different men. They fake Sheikh isn't around to care and his representative in Sheffield is a well meaning spin doctor, leaving McCabe in actual charge calling the shots. I want to be wrong so much it hurts but I need to see something different and I don't.

The difference is we have a wage budget which gives us a chance. Without the Prince we would have had a budget below the FFP Rules.

The difference is we are still running a meaningful Academy. Without the Prince it would have run it down because there would have been other priorities.

The difference is we are running the club at a loss, not insisting the club has to pay its own way.

Without the Prince Clough would not have come anyway near us. Weir was daft to take the job actually.

If you can't see the difference that's why you are so frustrated. The fundamentals are in place but the manager needs to keep us in touch with the automatic spots. Nobody wants the play-offs.

Wage budget is not the issue when the manager chooses to sign a Prem squad player on loan. He's chosen a defender, maybe that's the issue, but give him time, he says he's after a striker as well.

 

[Bladesway]

Woodward, is it this.....

The declared way forward was youth development as a means to progress the club. There was an implied suggestion that sales of young players were essential to pay our way, IMO.

Or this....

The difference is we are still running a meaningful Academy. Without the Prince it would have run it down because there would have been other priorities.

On one hand you say we would have been running the academy down but on the other you say we would have been reliant on youth. I'm confused.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Woodward, is it this.....


Or this....



On one hand you say we would have been running the academy down but on the other you say we would have been reliant on youth. I'm confused.

My limited knowledge about Academies is that there are varying standards. Until the Prem stitched-up all lesser football clubs, United were top grade. Now we are next to the top,as high as we can get.

Last count that cost us 1m per annum. Sponsors are generous but your mate KM has been picking up the bill for the balance for years.

Moving on, now you could set up an Academy for your Sunday School but the costs would be less, and all those clubs in-between will have varying costs. Some football league clubs have next to nothing.

Fair enough?

Now how about the important issues I raised?

 

[Bladesway]

My limited knowledge about Academies is that there are varying standards. Until the Prem stitched-up all lesser football clubs, United were top grade. Now we are next to the top,as high as we can get.

Last count that cost us 1m per annum. Sponsors are generous but your mate KM has been picking up the bill for the balance for years.

Moving on, now you could set up an Academy for your Sunday School but the costs would be less, and all those clubs in-between will have varying costs. Some football league clubs have next to nothing.

Fair enough?

Now how about the important issues I raised?

You and I are never going to agree on this until we rise up the table and into the Championship when you are well within your rights to say I told you so. I will be very happy for you to do this as we will be in the position that makes us all a lot more comfortable. Until this time I will not refrain from my line of thought because until I am proved wrong by the club, not by another fan I cannot see any evidence of a different regime.

I think the main difference is you are prepared to forgive the past and give them a completely clean slate. I am not. If you think I am going to change my mind because you keep beating at my door you will be disappointed. In the same way I don't expect to change your world view. They are such polar opposites we should just respect the fact they are different. I can do this, can you? Without belittling my opinion? I feel its best for everyones sanity that we park this right now as a difference of opinion.

 

[Woodwardfan]

You and I are never going to agree on this until we rise up the table and into the Championship when you are well within your rights to say I told you so. I will be very happy for you to do this as we will be in the position that makes us all a lot more comfortable. Until this time I will not refrain from my line of thought because until I am proved wrong by the club, not by another fan I cannot see any evidence of a different regime.

I think the main difference is you are prepared to forgive the past and give them a completely clean slate. I am not. If you think I am going to change my mind because you keep beating at my door you will be disappointed. In the same way I don't expect to change your world view. They are such polar opposites we should just respect the fact they are different. I can do this, can you? Without belittling my opinion? I feel its best for everyones sanity that we park this right now as a difference of opinion.

Bladesway, I do not " forgive" the past, I accept it happened and can't be changed.

When Robson was appointed I was disgusted. Same when Blackwell and Wilson were appointed. In my own mind I never gave Blackwell a chance , I was an active Forum "slasher" on 606. I gave Wilson a year before I slashed away at him. I thought I could help spread discontent and help towards a change of manager. Nonsense of course, but it made me feel better.

Over the past couple of weeks I've tried to remind everybody the ownership has changed and this is a new start and we should give it time. I also believe Clough is moving us in the right direction and we should all be patient.

Why you should think anything is to be gained by harping on about 2007, James Beattie etc I do not know. Already the Prince may have regrets about his investment. He has the "Ched issue" which even appeared over here in a local Kuala Lumpur paper yesterday. The seasons outcome is uncertain. On respected advice he installed Clough with total control over footballing matters and now may be having some doubts. KM had sold him on the history of the club and the loyalty of the fans, but it seems there is only hatred.

I'm desperate for the Prince to push us forwards. I hope our fans can encourage him rather than drive him away. I think we should "do our bit" and support the new regime rather than stir up antagonism. KM will be gone before long.

As I write this I realise I'm peeing into the wind. All the usual suspects will be slashing away if we don't get a result at Donny. " what about that lie he told about James Beattie" " why didnt we give Warnock cash to spend?" " foreign sister clubs, property deals more like" " who owns the hotel".

Slash away Bladesway if it makes you feel better.

 

[Pollingtonblade]

Bladesway, I do not " forgive" the past, I accept it happened and can't be changed.

When Robson was appointed I was disgusted. Same when Blackwell and Wilson were appointed. In my own mind I never gave Blackwell a chance , I was an active Forum "slasher" on 606. I gave Wilson a year before I slashed away at him. I thought I could help spread discontent and help towards a change of manager. Nonsense of course, but it made me feel better.

Over the past couple of weeks I've tried to remind everybody the ownership has changed and this is a new start and we should give it time. I also believe Clough is moving us in the right direction and we should all be patient.

Why you should think anything is to be gained by harping on about 2007, James Beattie etc I do not know. Already the Prince may have regrets about his investment. He has the "Ched issue" which even appeared over here in a local Kuala Lumpur paper yesterday. The seasons outcome is uncertain. On respected advice he installed Clough with total control over footballing matters and now may be having some doubts. KM had sold him on the history of the club and the loyalty of the fans, but it seems there is only hatred.

I'm desperate for the Prince to push us forwards. I hope our fans can encourage him rather than drive him away. I think we should "do our bit" and support the new regime rather than stir up antagonism. KM will be gone before long.

As I write this I realise I'm peeing into the wind. All the usual suspects will be slashing away if we don't get a result at Donny. " what about that lie he told about James Beattie" " why didnt we give Warnock cash to spend?" " foreign sister clubs, property deals more like" " who owns the hotel".

Slash away Bladesway if it makes you feel better.

I never realised Kevin Mcabe was a forum member.

 

[wizadry]

Bladesway, I do not " forgive" the past, I accept it happened and can't be changed.

When Robson was appointed I was disgusted. Same when Blackwell and Wilson were appointed. In my own mind I never gave Blackwell a chance , I was an active Forum "slasher" on 606. I gave Wilson a year before I slashed away at him. I thought I could help spread discontent and help towards a change of manager. Nonsense of course, but it made me feel better.

Over the past couple of weeks I've tried to remind everybody the ownership has changed and this is a new start and we should give it time. I also believe Clough is moving us in the right direction and we should all be patient.

Why you should think anything is to be gained by harping on about 2007, James Beattie etc I do not know. Already the Prince may have regrets about his investment. He has the "Ched issue" which even appeared over here in a local Kuala Lumpur paper yesterday. The seasons outcome is uncertain. On respected advice he installed Clough with total control over footballing matters and now may be having some doubts. KM had sold him on the history of the club and the loyalty of the fans, but it seems there is only hatred.

I'm desperate for the Prince to push us forwards. I hope our fans can encourage him rather than drive him away. I think we should "do our bit" and support the new regime rather than stir up antagonism. KM will be gone before long.

As I write this I realise I'm peeing into the wind. All the usual suspects will be slashing away if we don't get a result at Donny. " what about that lie he told about James Beattie" " why didnt we give Warnock cash to spend?" " foreign sister clubs, property deals more like" " who owns the hotel".

Slash away Bladesway if it makes you feel better.

Why give him a like and then reply to the post in a keep on slashing remark.I don't think you're pissing into the wind,i think you're being ridiculous tbh and expecting him or someone else to bite.Unlucky mate,it's getting boring.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Why give him a like and then reply to the post in a keep on slashing remark.I don't think you're pissing into the wind,i think you're being ridiculous tbh and expecting him or someone else to bite.Unlucky mate,it's getting boring.

Good point Wiz, don't know how I pressed the "like" button. Thanks.

As for your other comments, I'm reading a book about African missionaries and fully realise I would not have been cut out for such a calling; Not enough patience or finesse. I'm from Sheffield !!!

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

Good point Wiz, don't know how I pressed the "like" button. Thanks.

As for your other comments, I'm reading a book about African missionaries and fully realise I would not have been cut out for such a calling; Not enough patience or finesse. I'm from Sheffield !!!

Woodward fan . The reason why us fans like Bladesway bring up the past mistakes of the board is for one reason only

FRUSTRATION and PASSION for the club . Boards , Managers , Players , Staff come and go . Us fans don't , we are here for life.

Wiz is bang on , we are debating for nothing .

UTB.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Woodward fan . The reason why us fans like Bladesway bring up the past mistakes of the board is for one reason only

FRUSTRATION and PASSION for the club . Boards , Managers , Players , Staff come and go . Us fans don't , we are here for life.

Wiz is bang on , we are debating for nothing .

UTB.

Laudable but irrelevant. The past mistakes of the past board are history. We have a new owner and a new board.

Frustration and passion always get in the way of clarity of thought.

Whenever anybody talks about frustration and passion it's not his brain that is in gear! Ignore any innuendo, this is a footballing forum.

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

Laudable but irrelevant. The past mistakes of the past board are history. We have a new owner and a new board.

Frustration and passion always get in the way of clarity of thought.

Whenever anybody talks about frustration and passion it's not his brain that is in gear! Ignore any innuendo, this is a footballing forum.

Agree . The above is the way Mr McCabe thinks . Like a fan . That is why we are ,were we are . The good massively outweighs the bad with the McCabe family . Would we be all saying the same things if we were in the position were in today , but fast forward to 8th in the championship . Answer is Yes . Thats football , thats football forums.

As we all are UTB

 

[Bladesway]

Woodward fan . The reason why us fans like Bladesway bring up the past mistakes of the board is for one reason only

FRUSTRATION and PASSION for the club . Boards , Managers , Players , Staff come and go . Us fans don't , we are here for life.

Wiz is bang on , we are debating for nothing .

UTB.

If I thought anything had changed I wouldn't bring up the past because it wouldn't be relevant. I do because nothing noteable has changed.

 

[Woodwardfan]

If I thought anything had changed I wouldn't bring up the past because it wouldn't be relevant. I do because nothing noteable has changed.

Thanks for coming back to the thread Bladesway, appreciate it.

The key is that the future with the Prince is all we've got. KM IS a proven footballing failure,despite putting everything into it, including millions of pounds,he's maybe lost over 60m.

Let's look for any progress forwards. As Blades we do not expect leaps forward nor are we likely to get them..

The events of 2007 to August 2013 are painful for all of us. It's thereonwards that matters.

Clough may or may not be big enough for such a massive challenge, but he's as good as we would ever have got. I would have preferred McCall but now he's yesterday's man at Motherwell, hero of mine though.

The manager deserves a fair crack and us fans will be in limbo until it all works through. IMO he deserves this season and next and I think he has done very well overall, what with the cups and 7th last season. However his recruitment and blind spot 're strikers eat away at confidences.

I'm on a mission for fans on this particular quality forum to debate the real current issues, not past bygones. Up to now I'm peeing in the wind

What I do know for certain is that the prince's money has rescued us.

 

[wizadry]

The key is that the future with the Prince is all we've got. KM IS a proven footballing failure,despite putting everything into it, including millions of pounds,he's maybe lost over 60m.

You keep putting ambiguous statements like this.I mean come on,60 million quid McCabe has lost with usHave a minute!!!

 

[Woodwardfan]

You keep putting ambiguous statements like this.I mean come on,60 million quid McCabe has lost with usHave a minute!!![/QUOTE

You keep putting ambiguous statements like this.I mean come on,60 million quid McCabe has lost with usHave a minute!!!

Nothing ambiguous about that but let's not go there. The Prince will have bought out KM before the club is worth anything for KM to hope to recoup his losses.

T here's a reply in there somewhere Wizard.