Stoke 2 United 1 - summary/ratings

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Deadbat

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Hard to be anything but critical again. A poor game between two poor sides but only one really passed the ball, tried to attack and score goals. Stoke were not fantastic but worthy winners. Maybe the way we lost was a bit unfortunate in they were great goals and maybe not down to errors and an offside but the whole contest, we simply did not do enough. We were shocking to watch again and rarely looked like having an attack, let alone scoring. Our negative approach and style means we are dreadful to watch. We are hoping to eek out narrow wins just by defending. An approach that is not going to work when we have a slow, unfit side that leeks goals routinely.



Two great goals as I said (and one was of course offside) but overall, they deserved the win. Maybe the goals come out of unexpected areas but the weight of pressure told. They were the better side first half but created little but then after we scored a really clever goal, we just sat back and it was almost all them. The moment they scored, you knew what would happen. Wilder will talk about two wonder goals but they at least get in the right areas and shoot. We sat back, invited pressure and never really tried to score a second (one chance – Cannon). Donovan was criminally left on the bench. I felt a bit sorry for Cooper, Tanganga and Kitching, although former was weak on the winner – even if it was offside – but the weight of pressure meant only the home side were going for the win and showed the right attitude and approach. We score and have a chance to get a grip of the game and go for the jugular but we sit back, just kick it away and hope we can hang on. The style of football was appalling again. Long punts to slow forwards and hoping to get on scraps. We had 1 corner, 2 shots and half the passes of the opponent. 467 passes to 290. 62% possession again.



We had the 5-3-2 or 3-5-2 today but the formation actually did not really improve us – after we did have more control last week. We still had little of the ball, no control and created little all game. We had no way of moving up the pitch and just seemed full stretch. It had been an absolutely dreadful week and Wilder now is feeling the pressure. I thought we would be around the middle or just below but everything I have seen points to a season right near the bottom. The performance, style of play and results has been so bad. If this was anyone but Wilder, I think the majority would be asking for a change but he gets more time due to what he has done before. I get that and the owners will be wary of making another change and knowing what happened last time but not sure I have seen us play as bad under Wilder, than this season. The Premier League team was different – due to the quality but we are seeing such ordinary sides outplay us and impose themselves on us every week. We are dire to watch and have a weak underbelly. Everything he said we would not be again; we have become. This is worse than the side that was so insipid at the end of last season. Granted the three attackers going has been really important but shows up the complete lack of tactical ideas, coaching this side has. We relied on individuals finding a moment. We do not have that so need to rely on a structure and a a plan. We have neither and not sure the manager has any idea how to change this. He looks spent I am afraid to say.



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First half we started ok for 5 minutes. We had a few triangles of passes and got down the left but created nothing. Slowly they started to take over in terms of control. They dominated possession and won all the loose things. Soumare was the outstanding midfielder on the pitch. They found gaps and started to force us back. They did only have a few effort and Cooper only one save to make, as a few did not quite drop. We offered absolutely nothing – only one-half chance for Bamford where the mis controlled the ball. We just punted it long again and as the co commentator said, what are they not using some decent technical midfielders and Bamford who likes it to feet. The team seemed terrified of trying to pass it, in case they lost it, but pumped it long and lost it anyway. Incredibly disappointing with no clear plan or style to try and get up the field and cause Stoke problems. The only positive was defence was solid enough and not really pressured even if at times Baptist, Choudhury and RND got caught out. It seemed like Stoke were the only team at least trying to go forward and move the ball. We just got it, knocked it about for a few passes and then pumped it, hoping for our woefully slow forwards like BBD and Bamford to somehow get on these aimless balls.



Second half we have had so many drop offs but to be fair, we had a half chance from Peck and then score a clever free kick from Phillips who had been poor up to that point. We have something to build on but as happens so often, we sit back and just try and defend from 50 minutes. Stoke slowly got on top and had chances, Cooper made a good save from Bocat and a few crosses came in narrowly evading any forwards. Tanganga made a vital interception but we got deeper and deeper. We had no outlet as he chose to leave Donovan on the bench with BBD/Bamford total passengers. Cannon finally came on and had one chance but chose to shoot with men over. However, it was almost exclusively played in our half and we seemed to just hope we could hang on rather than go for another goal. An extremely negative approach. They made changes and pushed us back further. We did defend ok and like with Wolves, not sure they were creating tons but the weight of pressure is a concern. Some will say we were ok and not being really hurt but you retreat, never try and keep it, or moved up the field, then you are susceptible to pressure. The goal comes from out of nowhere but is a superb individual goal, much like ours and a real wonder hit. After that we make changes but there was only going to be one winner. They kept coming but again the winner is a wonder goal. Tremendous technique. He was offside seemingly and a really poor call. I think they would have probably scored a winner anyway, the way the game was going but annoying it’s an officials decision that contributes. However, do think that really covers up for another poor performance and result.



I am not sure where we go from here? I cannot see anything but a relegation battle. Do we look any better than the Leicester side that went down last season for instance. I hear some saying we have enough and we should have on the field – there are still some decent players but the fitness and tactical approach to games means we are second best in every key stat every week. Wilder can prickle at stats and XG but every game teams are out passing and outshooting us. We had two shots on goal today. WE had about 3 or 4 decent attacks all game. We never really had any control of the ball/possession and worryingly lost a lot of challenges/50-50 as the game went on. The defence were put under way too much pressure again and it just feels inevitable we will concede. Wilder said he did not trust the group last year and that this year, he does. What a load of nonsense. It’s essentially the same group. He leaves out the best outfield player this season and sadly they just look like a team of losers. The performances and style of play is worse than anything I have seen for a long time (Wilder can keep thrusting 9 points at people compared to the stage we got them last season) but if things carry on, we will lose most games and soon be right in the mire – if we are not on the verge of it already.



Overall, Stoke deserved to win. They were largely poor too but still better than us. They created more, were more positive on the ball and most of the decent stuff came from them including two brilliant goals. We can moan about the offside of course but as I say this papers over another awful, performance where we looked slow, lacking in ideas and totally devoid of any plan to try and keep the ball and score goals. We looked like a team back in the 80s on a muddy pitch just pumping it long – to slow and immobile forwards. It is ridiculous tactics. We have lost three big attacking players but surely, some of these players can do much better than this? Wilder said some of the fringe players did not take their chance but today he played many of the regulars and we were awful again. His excuses are wearing thin sadly. The performances are awful and the results are now matching those too. He keeps talking about getting the break but why? Campbell, BBD, Bamford, Arblaster are not going to suddenly be able to run after a three-week spell of running around Shirecliffe. We are not going to have any new players – maybe Seriki and Burrows back – but most of the team will be the same. Slow, plodding, boring players. There are a few who are decent technically but clearly been told do not take risks and just kick it long. IF they are not told that and are doing different to the manager’s instructions, then that is a concern too? Either the approach and plan (what is the plan?) is awful or they cannot do what he wants them to do. Whatever way you dress it up, there is no alignment at all.



We come back and play a hungry Lincoln side who will come here and have a go at a fragile side with an edgy stadium. Then we have two away. It’s a critical time for the club and the manager. If the performances carry on and the results follow like they have, then we are going to face a difficult decision. I keep hearing if we removed Wilder, we will go down but there is a fear we might be in big trouble with him. Ultimately football is an entertainment business. If we play poorly, you can kind of live with it, if you win but we are doing neither.



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Cooper 5/10 – Not troubled hugely first half and makes a standard save. Slipped once when coming out but not really troubled despite Stoke being the better side. He makes one great save from Bocat and then missed a corner. The first is a great shot but the keeper in me thinks he saw it late. Maybe that is harsh and was hit hard. No chance on the second but will be disappointed to concede two long rangers as has been saving some of these sorts. Not his fault of course.



Choudhury 5/10 – Started with a few poor decisions – going for the ball when he should have kept to position and then vice versa. He did improve and made some tackles/blocks but everything seems at full stretch. He was better second half I thought but at times still looked leaden footed and always having to dive in as he gets beat and has to recover. Probably best he has done and still not great!



Norrington Davies 4/10 - Kicked a few out and at least got stuck in but another slow player who seems like teams can exploit. One ok cross to Bamford first half. Got booked and a few harsh free kicks but very clumsy and cynical player. Least he does get stuck in but technical wise he is lacking badly.



Tanganga 6.5/10 – Did ok first half in terms of at least keeping tight and restricting chances. He made a few good blocks and one great one second half and was a contender for our man of the match but the second goal, despite the offside, he is outmuscled too easily and does not get close enough to stop the shot – as good as it was.



Kitching 6.5/10 – Thought he was one of the more solid players in terms of winning his battles – not many did. He showed some battling qualities – maybe too much when he nearly got himself sent off. He was one of few that at least won challenges and tried to attack the ball.



Baptiste 4.5/10 – A struggle to start with and had a few loose touches and then got caught out/rolled twice too. It must be hard when he is put in, then taken out for a period and then put back in again. Not sure he is used to playing in a 5 either? He improved a bit second half and had that one run out but a few other times he got moved about.



Phillips 6/10 – Been one of bright spots this season in limited minutes but struggled today up to a great and clever goal. Got a daft booking and then was careless with the ball. Soumare and Galbraith were far superior, with and without the ball. Needed to do more. Second half he had a better spell and then scored a great free kick but then after that tired badly. We got overran in midfield final stages again. Would have scored less without the goal.



Peck 5/10 – Ran around and at least started game with energy but then he became peripheral to the action as they move through the middle and the lack of pace/strength meant they picked us off and just ran unopposed. Soumare got the better of him a few times. He had two shooting chances that he should have done better but at least got in the right areas. We did not keep the ball and another who just helped it on. Did not see him at all last 20 minutes as they swarmed all over us.



Arblaster 3/10 – Totally anonymous. Saw an improvement last week (and did ok at Blackburn) but two big steps back this week. He was poor in the week and even worse today. He constantly looks worried about contact and thus moves it back and is not the positive player he used to be, taking it on the half turn and driving and making little passes/linking play. The concern over him not being able to run and move around means he rushes things and looks way off what is required currently. He moved around so was not just right either and was in the centre a lot. Got booked and withdrawn. Poor week for him.



Brereton Diaz 4/10 – He at least got the ball down the left a few times first half but did nothing with it. One jink and run was spoiled by a bad cross. Painfully slow and seems to have no confidence he can run with the ball and another therefore (like so many of the team) that does not trust his legs, so comes back. He, like Choudhury, has been a poor signing so far. Surely, we can find better and hungrier/quicker players down the leagues that would have offered more? Second half he was completely shot but somehow left on. Just kept kicking it away and needed subbing long before he did come off.



Bamford 3/10 – Passenger. Not in the game. The centre half completely imposed himself on him but he had not ball/service at all. I still think, despite that, he is off the pace and nothing is sticking but his lack of pace/athleticism means he is just completely isolated. Despite the service, he has to move more and try and make it stick but it is hard when ball is just being punted up to him.



Subs –



Cannon 4/10 – Had one run and shot where he should have really played BBD in maybe but the final part of the game, was all them, as we could not get out.



Chong – Not sure I saw him at all. Barely had a touch.



Ayew – As above. Maybe had a few flicks but we did not offer anything final 15 minutes.



Shackleton - Run off it once and then nearly played them in. Got stuck in at least. How are we having players like him playing meaningful minutes.



Donovan – Given 2 minutes. A disgrace. If I was him, I would be asking for a loan to a team that actually plays me and plays football, rather than just kick and rush.





Manager Rating: Wilder 3/10 – He will say they did not really hurt us and maybe he is right but I think that was more about them, than us having a plan. We did not really try and attack and were content just to kick it away and then regroup. We get a goal and you think, right let us keep the ball and make sure we do not get deep. As usual under him, we are so fearful and just sit on our box and whilst they scored two crackers and long-range goals – the goals were coming as we did not try and move up the field. Leaving BBD and Bamford on so long was criminal as we had an outlet in Donovan. Got exactly what he deserved for negative, boring and unattractive football. His comments in the week about not wanting players from overseas (apart from Scandinavia!) were just a further reason why his days at this level and with us are probably coming to a sad end. He seems very outdated in his tactics, recruitment and footballing philosophy. He said yesterday that we were a football team. We are not. We are a long ball, aimless, kick and rush side.



We lose the ball by kicking it long so why do we not try and keep it – are we scared of losing it and then teams just running through us – so just kick it to the other end and then hope we can regroup and set up in a solid shape? I have no idea what we are trying to do? This team is riddled with issues and personnel is lacking (buying old, unfit and slow players not helped) but they should not be as bad as they look currently. Stoke fans sang sacked in the morning. He will not be but the two or three weeks after the break are going to be critical. You do feel that the mood is changing amongst certain fans. I do have sympathy but for him to say no manager had has to contend with what he had to over the summer is nonsense (there are lots of clubs with smaller wage bills, squads, resource



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Stoke – I tipped them to do well and actually make the playoffs but that was more about Robins than necessarily the players. The Galbraith and Soumare combo is certainly more mobile and offers more goals than anything we have but they maybe overspent (15 million). They have made some smart signings in Devenney and McGlynn but Hirst is not a player I have ever thought will be more than mid Champ and another overpay but felt they have some other decent players leftover that had underachieved – with a top keeper. Maybe they will one of those teams that win a few and lose a few – which has happened a lot this season.



Today they were better side. They deserved to win on all the metrics and ultimately did. First half better of two sides but created nothing really and for as bad as we were, we limited them. After they conceded, they upped the tempo and the changes gave them pace down the sides and the middle. Got level from a great goal and then score an even better winner. They saw it out with comfort and for being more positive than us, take the three points. They were not great but showed the quality in the moments that mattered. Outside of that, they did play better football and at least got into the box and had efforts on goal/corners and tried to push us back. As ordinary as they may have looked, they still had many of the better players and looked better set up/coached. Not sure whether they will have enough for a top 8, as I predicted, but won’t play many weaker sides than us.



Opposition player of the match – Bocat got booked and then committed a foul (not a second yellow for me as Phillips was rolling around) but he was the main threat at 0-0 with his running and shooting. Galbraith and Soumare controlled midfield first half but then the lad McGlynn scored a superb goal and was instrumental in their comeback with his passing and getting on the ball. Tchamadeu and Gallacher were threats after they came on and the latter scored a stunner. Soumare had a good opening but faded and usual poor touches were on display but he got around the pitch. He was better than our midfielders! It was way too much money they paid for him and not sure I wanted to sign him but he did/does offer something different to Rothwell/Riedewald et al who are so one paced.



Opposition weak link – I like the keeper but Johannson made a mess of the goal so has to take this award. Thought we dealt with Cisse quite well. They got better when they changed this.



Referee – Tim Robinson. Too many whistles and cards. Seemed like some, for both sides, were way too soft. Some may argue that for fouls after being booked both Bocat and RND could have gone but that is only in keeping with his card happy display. Did get the cards right in the melee that Kitching started. Not sure it was dirty though but he wanted to be too involved. A really bad decision by the assistant on the 2nd goal ultimately costs us, despite the issues I discuss above.
 



As my Leeds mate said, Bamford goes missing far to often, then scores a few, and you think, ok, he is back, and disappears again for another 6 games.
Did that stats guy say COH, Brooks and Hamer were directly involved 44 goals we scored last season????
 
After 64 minutes Stoke make 3 subs bringing on two forwards. We respond with Canon for Arblaster. Arblaster was poor and needed to come off but the tactical change handed the intiative to Stoke. Whilst we were not pulling up any trees our midfield 3 had kept Stoke at bay. In moving Phillips and Peck back to a deep lying two it allowed Stoke to do what Robins should have done at half time and push 10 yards further up the pitch. Its a tactic every other team has done this season second half. We actually made the change for them which beggars belief. Its this tactical ineptitude that loses you games and illustrates the current state of the coaching staff.

I've already commented at some length on the match thread about what I perceive is the problem. Yes Donovan should have been on much earlier but when you are dropping so deep you are asking for trouble.

Lose to Lincoln at it will get toxic. The owners have a quandary. Stick or twist. If they stick its much more of the same tactical tub thumping drivel likely to accelerate a downward spiral that seriously impacts on the value of their asset. Twist and what do they have in place that could enable a new manager to confidently come in and arrest the slide? The simple answer is the structure isnt there to enable this. It is a problem of their own making which they are currently incapable of dealing with.

Rosens comment he was told the squad was a top 8 team reveals how clueless they are in appreciating what is needed to run a competent championship football club.

I'm afraid its only going to get worse as we limp along to Christmas. By then it may be too late to make a change. Unless there is a dynamic investor hiding behind the curtain league 1 and chaos beckons.
 
Im not sure what Wilder sees. If thats our players giving everything then jesus they dont have much to give.

Theres no energy, theres no movement, were second to every ball. We lump it forward to BBD and Bamford who both look like they’re running with lead boots. Im confused as to what Wilder is trying to get out of the team? A team that can 0-0 its way through every gsme and get a lucky break? We’re unable to string 2 passes together. We cant just constantly sit back and back every week and allow teams to break us down. People will point to Gallagher being offside but we should be trying to stop him from scoring regardless, Tanganga should be doing better, you’d think he’d be stronger in that situation.

Im really concerned about Wilder’s tactical in game management, or lack of. Watching that first half, it called for us to switch to 4231 at half time, the space to attack was behind their full backs, put Donovan on for Baptiste, and exploit the space behind their full backs. This in turn would put the pressure on them, but no we continue in this strange shape of letting them come at us.
Improvements are apparently being made including today and last sunday, however im not seeing it. Im seeing 2 games where we sit back and allow the other team possession, and we cant pass to our teammates.

The way of lumping it forward to the strikers only works if the midfielders press up high snd the defence follow suit to keep them penned in to win the second balls. It doesnt work with Bamford as like Deadbat, not sure what he actually offers. He cant hold the ball up, hes not particularly quick or strong.


Lots to worry about. Thank god for the next 3 weeks
 
Deadbat I don't know how you keep doing these reports it must be as soul-destroying as watching the games beforehand. I'd think about doing a copy & paste job and just change the opposition name and score.
Unfortunately if the owners aren't going to sack Wilder after the last two games I fear they never will. You have to ask have they already settled for relegation and take a possible points deduction this season so they can start next season in League One with a clean slate minus most of the big wage earners.
I can see any one or all of Seriki, Burrows, Peck, Oné being sold maybe even Cooper. The trouble being there is not much ready to make the step up from academy level at the moment, we really are in a dire mess. Oh! And very generous scores for the players and the incumbent posing as a manager.
 



Thanks for the report Deadbat.

Didn't bother watching it today, so relied on your report.

I went out to an Antique centre. No change really after watching our midfield these past few games.

We are in BIG trouble. Change needed. ASAP
 
I agree with the sentiments re: Wilder and them not hurting us. They had Cissè up front to start off, and he had our defenders on toast, but showed a major lack of composure upon entering our box. Was then replaced by Hirst, who certainly has composure, but lacks the pace of Cissè that we struggled with so badly.

Had Cissè had a more cool head on his shoulders, we'd have been punished a lot sooner than their 2 screamers.
 
The use (non-use) of Donovan is indeed a disgrace. To have arblaster and BBD starting ahead of him is bad enough, then bringing Chong, Ayew and Cannon all ahead of him is unbelievable.

If we’re actually planning to play this direct, no possession style, then at least bring in and use the players to make the most of it - you need a physical target man striker and pace running off him on the counter attack. Wilder has invested all his (pretty significant) funds in the complete opposite players - slow, passing central midfielders. But then even with our best 3 of these midfielders on, we can’t keep the ball more than 3 passes.

Even if he’d been given £10m, we all know where he’d have spent that, so I don’t get the argument it’s just our finances that’s limiting him. If you gave this version of wilder £50m to spend, I still think we’d be turgid because it comes down to coaching and knowing how to build a team in the modern championship
 
Brereton Diaz is pretty good at giving the ball away and falling over. Another large chunk of wages handed out on slow ineffective waste of space.
 
The use (non-use) of Donovan is indeed a disgrace. To have arblaster and BBD starting ahead of him is bad enough, then bringing Chong, Ayew and Cannon all ahead of him is unbelievable.

If we’re actually planning to play this direct, no possession style, then at least bring in and use the players to make the most of it - you need a physical target man striker and pace running off him on the counter attack. Wilder has invested all his (pretty significant) funds in the complete opposite players - slow, passing central midfielders. But then even with our best 3 of these midfielders on, we can’t keep the ball more than 3 passes.

Even if he’d been given £10m, we all know where he’d have spent that, so I don’t get the argument it’s just our finances that’s limiting him. If you gave this version of wilder £50m to spend, I still think we’d be turgid because it comes down to coaching and knowing how to build a team in the modern championship
Playing 5 at the back doesn't suit a winger. 5 at the back is a good system if you have 2 quick, fit wing backs. We are currently playing Choudhury and RND who are the exact opposite of what you need.
 
Playing 5 at the back doesn't suit a winger. 5 at the back is a good system if you have 2 quick, fit wing backs. We are currently playing Choudhury and RND who are the exact opposite of what you need.
Agree but again this goes to the poor planning of our transfer business and squad building

Our best players are our RWB and Right Winger.

The formation you need to use one of them, won’t work for the other. We also have no left wingers. Beans said this I think last season, it actually made sense to sell one of Brooks or Seriki, because although they’re our best two young players, we can’t use them both and they need different systems.

We have no central midfielder pairing that can work as a 2, so we need to play 3. And we have no striker who really works as a lone forward, so we have to play 2.

All these things are pulling in different directions and we’re left with a combo of players that doesn’t work in any system really, and wilders jumping between different shapes shows he doesn’t know what to commit to. He should’ve worked all this out in off season planning and pre season - and gone into the window with a proper plan.

This is why we have an average-ish squad, but a terrible team
 
Whilst we do seem to be making tactical mistakes week after week I’m not sure how much better off we’d be with a different manager. I’m just not sure anyone could get much more out of these (mostly) journeymen.

The owners have put us in a near impossible position forcing sales of our best players and only funding inferior replacements and Wilder must be tearing his hair out.

Donovan should definitely be getting more minutes but the problem seems to me is that because he is surrounded by ponderous pedestrian team mates and swift inter-play that would suit his style is not possible, he is trying to do too much on his own and sometimes ends up looking a little ineffective - I think that’s what’s behind Wilder’s approach.

This squad is better than 2010/11 but so is the rest of the division. What a shit show. 🤬
 
Hard to be anything but critical again. A poor game between two poor sides but only one really passed the ball, tried to attack and score goals. Stoke were not fantastic but worthy winners. Maybe the way we lost was a bit unfortunate in they were great goals and maybe not down to errors and an offside but the whole contest, we simply did not do enough. We were shocking to watch again and rarely looked like having an attack, let alone scoring. Our negative approach and style means we are dreadful to watch. We are hoping to eek out narrow wins just by defending. An approach that is not going to work when we have a slow, unfit side that leeks goals routinely.



Two great goals as I said (and one was of course offside) but overall, they deserved the win. Maybe the goals come out of unexpected areas but the weight of pressure told. They were the better side first half but created little but then after we scored a really clever goal, we just sat back and it was almost all them. The moment they scored, you knew what would happen. Wilder will talk about two wonder goals but they at least get in the right areas and shoot. We sat back, invited pressure and never really tried to score a second (one chance – Cannon). Donovan was criminally left on the bench. I felt a bit sorry for Cooper, Tanganga and Kitching, although former was weak on the winner – even if it was offside – but the weight of pressure meant only the home side were going for the win and showed the right attitude and approach. We score and have a chance to get a grip of the game and go for the jugular but we sit back, just kick it away and hope we can hang on. The style of football was appalling again. Long punts to slow forwards and hoping to get on scraps. We had 1 corner, 2 shots and half the passes of the opponent. 467 passes to 290. 62% possession again.



We had the 5-3-2 or 3-5-2 today but the formation actually did not really improve us – after we did have more control last week. We still had little of the ball, no control and created little all game. We had no way of moving up the pitch and just seemed full stretch. It had been an absolutely dreadful week and Wilder now is feeling the pressure. I thought we would be around the middle or just below but everything I have seen points to a season right near the bottom. The performance, style of play and results has been so bad. If this was anyone but Wilder, I think the majority would be asking for a change but he gets more time due to what he has done before. I get that and the owners will be wary of making another change and knowing what happened last time but not sure I have seen us play as bad under Wilder, than this season. The Premier League team was different – due to the quality but we are seeing such ordinary sides outplay us and impose themselves on us every week. We are dire to watch and have a weak underbelly. Everything he said we would not be again; we have become. This is worse than the side that was so insipid at the end of last season. Granted the three attackers going has been really important but shows up the complete lack of tactical ideas, coaching this side has. We relied on individuals finding a moment. We do not have that so need to rely on a structure and a a plan. We have neither and not sure the manager has any idea how to change this. He looks spent I am afraid to say.



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First half we started ok for 5 minutes. We had a few triangles of passes and got down the left but created nothing. Slowly they started to take over in terms of control. They dominated possession and won all the loose things. Soumare was the outstanding midfielder on the pitch. They found gaps and started to force us back. They did only have a few effort and Cooper only one save to make, as a few did not quite drop. We offered absolutely nothing – only one-half chance for Bamford where the mis controlled the ball. We just punted it long again and as the co commentator said, what are they not using some decent technical midfielders and Bamford who likes it to feet. The team seemed terrified of trying to pass it, in case they lost it, but pumped it long and lost it anyway. Incredibly disappointing with no clear plan or style to try and get up the field and cause Stoke problems. The only positive was defence was solid enough and not really pressured even if at times Baptist, Choudhury and RND got caught out. It seemed like Stoke were the only team at least trying to go forward and move the ball. We just got it, knocked it about for a few passes and then pumped it, hoping for our woefully slow forwards like BBD and Bamford to somehow get on these aimless balls.



Second half we have had so many drop offs but to be fair, we had a half chance from Peck and then score a clever free kick from Phillips who had been poor up to that point. We have something to build on but as happens so often, we sit back and just try and defend from 50 minutes. Stoke slowly got on top and had chances, Cooper made a good save from Bocat and a few crosses came in narrowly evading any forwards. Tanganga made a vital interception but we got deeper and deeper. We had no outlet as he chose to leave Donovan on the bench with BBD/Bamford total passengers. Cannon finally came on and had one chance but chose to shoot with men over. However, it was almost exclusively played in our half and we seemed to just hope we could hang on rather than go for another goal. An extremely negative approach. They made changes and pushed us back further. We did defend ok and like with Wolves, not sure they were creating tons but the weight of pressure is a concern. Some will say we were ok and not being really hurt but you retreat, never try and keep it, or moved up the field, then you are susceptible to pressure. The goal comes from out of nowhere but is a superb individual goal, much like ours and a real wonder hit. After that we make changes but there was only going to be one winner. They kept coming but again the winner is a wonder goal. Tremendous technique. He was offside seemingly and a really poor call. I think they would have probably scored a winner anyway, the way the game was going but annoying it’s an officials decision that contributes. However, do think that really covers up for another poor performance and result.



I am not sure where we go from here? I cannot see anything but a relegation battle. Do we look any better than the Leicester side that went down last season for instance. I hear some saying we have enough and we should have on the field – there are still some decent players but the fitness and tactical approach to games means we are second best in every key stat every week. Wilder can prickle at stats and XG but every game teams are out passing and outshooting us. We had two shots on goal today. WE had about 3 or 4 decent attacks all game. We never really had any control of the ball/possession and worryingly lost a lot of challenges/50-50 as the game went on. The defence were put under way too much pressure again and it just feels inevitable we will concede. Wilder said he did not trust the group last year and that this year, he does. What a load of nonsense. It’s essentially the same group. He leaves out the best outfield player this season and sadly they just look like a team of losers. The performances and style of play is worse than anything I have seen for a long time (Wilder can keep thrusting 9 points at people compared to the stage we got them last season) but if things carry on, we will lose most games and soon be right in the mire – if we are not on the verge of it already.



Overall, Stoke deserved to win. They were largely poor too but still better than us. They created more, were more positive on the ball and most of the decent stuff came from them including two brilliant goals. We can moan about the offside of course but as I say this papers over another awful, performance where we looked slow, lacking in ideas and totally devoid of any plan to try and keep the ball and score goals. We looked like a team back in the 80s on a muddy pitch just pumping it long – to slow and immobile forwards. It is ridiculous tactics. We have lost three big attacking players but surely, some of these players can do much better than this? Wilder said some of the fringe players did not take their chance but today he played many of the regulars and we were awful again. His excuses are wearing thin sadly. The performances are awful and the results are now matching those too. He keeps talking about getting the break but why? Campbell, BBD, Bamford, Arblaster are not going to suddenly be able to run after a three-week spell of running around Shirecliffe. We are not going to have any new players – maybe Seriki and Burrows back – but most of the team will be the same. Slow, plodding, boring players. There are a few who are decent technically but clearly been told do not take risks and just kick it long. IF they are not told that and are doing different to the manager’s instructions, then that is a concern too? Either the approach and plan (what is the plan?) is awful or they cannot do what he wants them to do. Whatever way you dress it up, there is no alignment at all.



We come back and play a hungry Lincoln side who will come here and have a go at a fragile side with an edgy stadium. Then we have two away. It’s a critical time for the club and the manager. If the performances carry on and the results follow like they have, then we are going to face a difficult decision. I keep hearing if we removed Wilder, we will go down but there is a fear we might be in big trouble with him. Ultimately football is an entertainment business. If we play poorly, you can kind of live with it, if you win but we are doing neither.



___

Cooper 5/10 – Not troubled hugely first half and makes a standard save. Slipped once when coming out but not really troubled despite Stoke being the better side. He makes one great save from Bocat and then missed a corner. The first is a great shot but the keeper in me thinks he saw it late. Maybe that is harsh and was hit hard. No chance on the second but will be disappointed to concede two long rangers as has been saving some of these sorts. Not his fault of course.



Choudhury 5/10 – Started with a few poor decisions – going for the ball when he should have kept to position and then vice versa. He did improve and made some tackles/blocks but everything seems at full stretch. He was better second half I thought but at times still looked leaden footed and always having to dive in as he gets beat and has to recover. Probably best he has done and still not great!



Norrington Davies 4/10 - Kicked a few out and at least got stuck in but another slow player who seems like teams can exploit. One ok cross to Bamford first half. Got booked and a few harsh free kicks but very clumsy and cynical player. Least he does get stuck in but technical wise he is lacking badly.



Tanganga 6.5/10 – Did ok first half in terms of at least keeping tight and restricting chances. He made a few good blocks and one great one second half and was a contender for our man of the match but the second goal, despite the offside, he is outmuscled too easily and does not get close enough to stop the shot – as good as it was.



Kitching 6.5/10 – Thought he was one of the more solid players in terms of winning his battles – not many did. He showed some battling qualities – maybe too much when he nearly got himself sent off. He was one of few that at least won challenges and tried to attack the ball.



Baptiste 4.5/10 – A struggle to start with and had a few loose touches and then got caught out/rolled twice too. It must be hard when he is put in, then taken out for a period and then put back in again. Not sure he is used to playing in a 5 either? He improved a bit second half and had that one run out but a few other times he got moved about.



Phillips 6/10 – Been one of bright spots this season in limited minutes but struggled today up to a great and clever goal. Got a daft booking and then was careless with the ball. Soumare and Galbraith were far superior, with and without the ball. Needed to do more. Second half he had a better spell and then scored a great free kick but then after that tired badly. We got overran in midfield final stages again. Would have scored less without the goal.



Peck 5/10 – Ran around and at least started game with energy but then he became peripheral to the action as they move through the middle and the lack of pace/strength meant they picked us off and just ran unopposed. Soumare got the better of him a few times. He had two shooting chances that he should have done better but at least got in the right areas. We did not keep the ball and another who just helped it on. Did not see him at all last 20 minutes as they swarmed all over us.



Arblaster 3/10 – Totally anonymous. Saw an improvement last week (and did ok at Blackburn) but two big steps back this week. He was poor in the week and even worse today. He constantly looks worried about contact and thus moves it back and is not the positive player he used to be, taking it on the half turn and driving and making little passes/linking play. The concern over him not being able to run and move around means he rushes things and looks way off what is required currently. He moved around so was not just right either and was in the centre a lot. Got booked and withdrawn. Poor week for him.



Brereton Diaz 4/10 – He at least got the ball down the left a few times first half but did nothing with it. One jink and run was spoiled by a bad cross. Painfully slow and seems to have no confidence he can run with the ball and another therefore (like so many of the team) that does not trust his legs, so comes back. He, like Choudhury, has been a poor signing so far. Surely, we can find better and hungrier/quicker players down the leagues that would have offered more? Second half he was completely shot but somehow left on. Just kept kicking it away and needed subbing long before he did come off.



Bamford 3/10 – Passenger. Not in the game. The centre half completely imposed himself on him but he had not ball/service at all. I still think, despite that, he is off the pace and nothing is sticking but his lack of pace/athleticism means he is just completely isolated. Despite the service, he has to move more and try and make it stick but it is hard when ball is just being punted up to him.



Subs –



Cannon 4/10 – Had one run and shot where he should have really played BBD in maybe but the final part of the game, was all them, as we could not get out.



Chong – Not sure I saw him at all. Barely had a touch.



Ayew – As above. Maybe had a few flicks but we did not offer anything final 15 minutes.



Shackleton - Run off it once and then nearly played them in. Got stuck in at least. How are we having players like him playing meaningful minutes.



Donovan – Given 2 minutes. A disgrace. If I was him, I would be asking for a loan to a team that actually plays me and plays football, rather than just kick and rush.





Manager Rating: Wilder 3/10
All you have to do is look at that line-up , to know what's coming 🥱

3 CBs ok.
2 WBs in Choudhury & RND 😭
2 DMs in Peck & Philips 😕
1 broken AM son-in-law 🙄

That's 80% of the outfield without any kind of progressive attacking threat whatsoever.
All you're going to get is sideways farting around in your own half , followed by a big aerial punt upfield.
To whom ?

2 old slow-coaches without a burst of pace in them or a chance of winning a header.

FFS Wilder , just look at who you've recruited.

A load of boringly slow old lags whom no one could expect to compete.
And that doesn't even cover Ayew , nor Campbell , whose contract you've extended.
And who do we see today imposing himself on our rickety midfield but Soumare - another younger developing player we once had.

And you leave our one speedy attacking player Donovan on the bench !

You've presided over a complete shitshow on the football side of things.
Clubs with far weaker budgets and fewer saleable assets than us look much better at playing football.
And at the end of this season , we'll have hardly any contracted players who we might develop.

You have totally shafted us for the foreseeable future.
I just don't know what's been going on in your mind.
Have you thrown your toys out coz you failed to get us promoted before the end of parachutes ?
And now you want to leave us where you found us , dysfunctional in L1 ?
 
That’s throughly depressing reading Deadbat.

Last season we was still poor after Wilder came in, although it was damage limitation after the horrendous Selles/Bord experiment, and we did stay up with some distance to spare.

This season should have been a rebuild, where we brought in young, hungry players with something to prove rather than plugging gaps with more journeyman.

I’ve tried to back Wilder with two trains of thought.

1. He will get the players in a formation that suits and build on a develop that. Even thought we lost last Sunday, I was enthused by going back to 3 at the back as we had looked a lot better. But he changed the formation midweek and dropped McGuinness for the hapless Baptiste who doesn’t look anywhere near ready for this level

2. Financial circumstances have dictated that he has had to sell key players without having much back to replace them. What we have brought in had been underwhelming. Doherty and Ayew have been shockers and look like their legs have gone. BBD has been horrific since he has come back and wasn’t great in the first place. Resigning Jairo was a poor move as he didn’t really impress me last season. I’ll give him credit for Phillips as I think once he gets minutes he will keep on getting better and better. The one bright spark has been Donovan but he has been benched when we cried out for pace and impetuous.

Fitness and conditioning seems shocking as teams seem to have too much for us in the last 20-30 minutes and overwhelm us and that has been a theme of Wilder Mk1 and Mk2.

The other constant criticism I have is Chong. He has been consistently shite. He doesn’t seem to fit in any particular style of play, or ever seem to do much. Hes been a complete waste of resources and doesn’t look anywhere near Championship standard. When he is wheeled out after 75 minutes it’s almost like the game is up at that point.

I’ve constantly argued against sacking Wilder as we need a steady hand at the tiller this season but if we lose against Lincoln, I think that will be the inflection point where stuff turns nasty and at that point his job will become untenable and the legacy of all his great feats between 16-20 will count for very little as the Lane finally turns against him.
 
I wish the team put as much effort into playing the game as you do writing about it. Ditto for our “esteemed” local journalists.

Everything about the club stinks at the moment. When you see stoke’s half empty ground and shite atmosphere it gives you a glimpse of what’s in store for us if we don’t make some major changes at the club.

Thanks again for your efforts DB 👍🏻
 
I think as Deadbat and most on this thread have posted, we are in such a bad place at the moment. We all accept Wilder has been dealt a bad hand, and I for one, thought if anyone could get us out of it he could. I am now of the opinion he has completely lost his ability to motivate, organise, coach or tactically develop players. Is it because he has lost Knill, or does he really care anymore? He sticks with old pros, he can't manage the new young athletic players. He has given us some of the best times in recent years, but he us now past his sell by date. Put him out to pasture, on his salary, not paid off, and for me, bring in Hecky as a caretaker until the end of the season. He, at least, develops young athletic players. Cooper, Seriki, Peck,, Baptiste, Donovan, yes Arblaster, One, Marsh maybe one or two academy stars? Add in Kitching, McCallam, Philips, maybe Tanganga and who knows Cannon? For me, this is the core of the squad to build on.
 



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