Big Sam's 'Tevez' perspective

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oldblade said:
Agreed.

I suppose what I'm trying to show is that there was as near as damn it no difference between ourselves and Wigan. It was so small that even a gust of wind at the right time could have altered the outcome, and yet some would have you believe Warnock was a complete tactical numpty.
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There was certainly a difference on the last day. One team was on the front foot from the first whistle, the other like a rabbit in the headlights. Warnock was said to be a motivator. He must have been on holiday for the (disastrous) last eight days of the season.

We needed one, say it again, one point from our last two games (or even not to lose so heavily at Villa) to save our skins. We froze and never looked like doing it. That was nothing to do with West Ham.
 

I have a dilemma over what to do about the game tomorrow.

Planning on going but do you think I will need a Kevlar or a chain mail vest :(
 
Greenwich Blade said:
I was so angry when I read this in the Mirror online this morning that I put my foot through my iPad and sent the bill to Trevor Brooking.
.
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The Mirror article defies belief.
Talks about WHU fans wearing Tevez maskes, and then there is a survey asking if it's time for Sheff Utd fans to move on from the Tevez affair....FFS
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/west-ham-fans-wear-carlos-4105789

No wonder the Scots want to rid themselves of anything to do with London.
 
Guilty? Us? For what exactly?

Big Sam clearly is playing dumb because he was still manager of Bolton at the time I think. He will have been informed about the meetings that went on among all the PL clubs along with the media reports.

He is just trying to make himself look good for the West Ham fans because they don't like him much.
 
My take on it is that the Shammers should of had points deducted! Not a revelation is it,that comment, but that's what all Blades think.
However that didn't happen, we got relegated and then we decided to pursue it.

After spending some time thinking about this and why they hate us so much, it is that SUFC where the ones that took them on and pursued it. All the other clubs in the league that year was also affected and if the sloppy faced little Argie prick hadn't played in all the games he did then all the results would of been affected.
Meaning IMO that the league could of looked very different. This would of affected prize money from teams in different positions, maybe changing the top four to the bottom three.
McCabe and the board took the decision to take on the Premier league but he should of had the support of all the clubs, every team was affected not just us.
But as so often happens people don't want to upset the gravy train so we stood alone. This was unfair.

Because of this in the eyes of the Shammers and obviously their fans we are the bad guys cos we stood up be counted. We should be proud of that.
All the BS coming from their publicity/smear campaign at the time to try to save face and make us to be the bad ones pretty much worked. I think it is funny/sad that they hate us so much, they needed a scapegoat and we are it. The truth conveniently forgotten as their is someone attacking there club..

It's just a pity more clubs didn't stand beside us as it affected everyone. Bastards.
 
VespaBlade said:
My take on it is that the Shammers should of had points deducted! Not a revelation is it,that comment, but that's what all Blades think.
However that didn't happen, we got relegated and then we decided to pursue it.

After spending some time thinking about this and why they hate us so much, it is that SUFC where the ones that took them on and pursued it. All the other clubs in the league that year was also affected and if the sloppy faced little Argie prick hadn't played in all the games he did then all the results would of been affected.
Meaning IMO that the league could of looked very different. This would of affected prize money from teams in different positions, maybe changing the top four to the bottom three.
McCabe and the board took the decision to take on the Premier league but he should of had the support of all the clubs, every team was affected not just us.
But as so often happens people don't want to upset the gravy train so we stood alone. This was unfair.

Because of this in the eyes of the Shammers and obviously their fans we are the bad guys cos we stood up be counted. We should be proud of that.
All the BS coming from their publicity/smear campaign at the time to try to save face and make us to be the bad ones pretty much worked. I think it is funny/sad that they hate us so much, they needed a scapegoat and we are it. The truth conveniently forgotten as their is someone attacking there club..

It's just a pity more clubs didn't stand beside us as it affected everyone. Bastards.
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Fulham stood beside us all the way through the the litigation against the Premier League. They took no part in the action for damages; they couldn't, it did not affect them.

It's "would have" not "would of". Sorry to moan, but it's still happening and it's basic. Also it's "their" not "there".

I'm just trying to save the English language. It's a thankless task.
 
Silent Blade said:
Dave Bassett and who are the other two?
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A much younger me on the right and another Blades fan whose name I've long forgotten. On the left but out of shot in the cropped version is Chris Kamara. (Yes, the ageing process has been less than kind to me Silent :-)) To the left of us sat another team from somewhere else in Sheffield!
 
WhiteHawk said:
Has Samuels has anything to say since the draw was made?
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In yesterday's Mail. Same old same old...

'It was Sheffield United who established that a football club aren't responsible for their position in the league table. It took a while, but they eventually found a judge :mad: who ruled that it was West Ham's fault that the Blades were relegated in 2006-07.
Lord Griffiths effectively blamed a rival club for the entire season at Sheffield United, including the 10 points dropped by Neil Warnock's team before Carlos Tevez had even played a game for West Ham.'

There's more of this potentially-libellous bullshit from Allardyce's love-child :fattwat: but I'll spare you.

Pinchy said:
Fulham stood beside us all the way through the the litigation against the Premier League. They took no part in the action for damages; they couldn't, it did not affect them.
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They didn't have to take part. Questions may have been asked why Liverpool played a severely-depleted team at Craven Cottage on 5th May 2007. This led to Fulham gaining their first League win in 11 games.
 
Pinchy said:
Fulham stood beside us all the way through the the litigation against the Premier League. They took no part in the action for damages; they couldn't, it did not affect them.

It's "would have" not "would of". Sorry to moan, but it's still happening and it's basic. Also it's "their" not "there".

I'm just trying to save the English language. It's a thankless task.
Click to expand...

My spelin nd grammur apart (sorry I was taught in Worksop) I feel that they hate us cos(because) we stood up and made a stand but it affected every club. Pretty much all the clubs should of(have?) been behind us but they have their own agendas and didn't wanna(want to) upset the applecart. I appreciate some clubs backed us but maybe not enough did.
We just look the mardy ones( to the Shammers). They are wrong.
 

oldblade said:
Does having a goal difference just one goal worse than Wigan over 38 games mane we were worse than them? Maybe. When the margin is that small it could be caused by refereeing mistakes and the odd crucial decision going against us.
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It was! Have a look here http://web.archive.org/web/20081005052927/http://www.youneedspecsref.com/

According to that we were relegated by refereeing decisions. Their 'corrected' league table shows we should have been safe by three points. The only thing of importance (title, top four, relegation) that was affected by mistakes was one relegation place, so who were saved by dodgy refereeing? Oh look, our friends The Biggest Cheats In The History Of The Universe. West Ham were FOUR places better off due to refereeing errors (the Kozluk goal alone was the three point swing necessary to place us above them). Interestingly all the teams who finished higher than they should were all London/Southern (Spurs, Reading, West Ham and Fulham). One London team, Charlton, were worse off - but only because West Ham gained four places.

If you read their individual score 'corrections' you'll see that they said both Everton's goals against us at Goodison shouldn't have been given, and we should have had a penalty. To be fair to all teams they said they assumed penalties would have been scored (though with our penalty record that season it wasn't likely!), yet failed to give us a 1-0 win. If you add another two points onto our total on their 'as it should have been' table we'd have had 42 points and finished 13th.

So in a fair world where everything was played to the rules (and you allow for us actually scoring a penalty), useless Warnock and his band of hapless players were actually the 13th best team.

And whichever way you slice it, West Ham most definitely should have been relegated.
 
I used to have a lot of respect for sports jornalists but if the tevez affair taught me one thing its that they are all lazy and poorly researched bullshit peddlars ,more interested in not biting the hand that feeds them and basking in the glory of celebrity that being periphary figures in the football pecking order gives them

Even the ones who took our side didnt seem to have the foggiest what they were on about
 
bartman said:
maybe not responsible for sending us down(we will never know) but it was shocking planning by allowing an experienced player to stay out on loan when we could have done with him in the squad over those last few games. He surely would have been a better option than Shelton.
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Horsfield was well past his best when we signed him. After leaving WBA he played for six clubs and never scored more than two goals for any of them. I think bringing him back would have been an even worse move than signing him in the first place.

http://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=11233&season_id=135
 
Agree with all that's been said about West Ham obviously but we also got relegated because Warnock sent out teams at big away games that were set up to keep the score down, not even to get a point. Hence the 4-0s and, unforgivably, 3-0 at Villa after an embarrassingly inept performance and tactical stupidity.
 
Bergen Blade said:
Horsfield was well past his best when we signed him. After leaving WBA he played for six clubs and never scored more than two goals for any of them. I think bringing him back would have been an even worse move than signing him in the first place.

http://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=11233&season_id=135
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We bought him from West Brom the season before. NW agreed to pay £1.2 million for him which would suggest he wasn't past it at that stage(he scored 14 goals the season before we bought him).He wasn't given the opportunity under NW and I would suggest he would have been a good partner for Stead. Basically, NW didn't give an opportunity to an experienced centre forward and then subsequently didn't provide cover for Hulse

In the January transfer window,NW should have ensured we had experience cover in Hulse's position. He chose not to do this and wasted money (2.75mill plus wages) on Fathi and Shelton plus spent further money(1.75 mill) on Killa who played 6 games for us in that season(in the same period, Lucketti played the same amount of games).

£4.5 million (plus wages) on those three players alone....shouldn't the priority have been on another forward ?
 
Newbury Blade said:
Agree with all that's been said about West Ham obviously but we also got relegated because Warnock sent out teams at big away games that were set up to keep the score down, not even to get a point. Hence the 4-0s and, unforgivably, 3-0 at Villa after an embarrassingly inept performance and tactical stupidity.
Click to expand...
I was at villa park and we got steamrollered by a very good villa side including young carew and agbonlohar
They battered us in front of a full house in party mood celebrating the anniversary of their european cup victory


Just out of interest , what should warnock have done to win this game where most blades seem to think a more positive aproach would have definetly yeilded 3 points

Just looking at their team and its choc full of internationals like mellberg bouma sorensen berger barry yet all we had to do was try and win and its 3 points in the bag

Warnock really is tactically inept then
Or maybe some people just talk shit
 
Newbury Blade said:
Agree with all that's been said about West Ham obviously but we also got relegated because Warnock sent out teams at big away games that were set up to keep the score down, not even to get a point. Hence the 4-0s and, unforgivably, 3-0 at Villa after an embarrassingly inept performance and tactical stupidity.
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We only lost one game 4-0 - at Liverpool - and the only 3-0 defeats apart from the Villa game were at Chelsea and Arsenal. None of those defeats, apart from the Villa one, by those margin caused anyone any surprises.

And to scotch another myth, a 2-0 defeat at Villa would have made no difference; we would still have needed a point against Wigan. On the other hand a draw at Villa would have seen us safe and a 1-0 defeat would have seen Wigan needing to beat us by 2. Call me stupid, but I think parking the bus at Villa and trying to get a draw or, at worst, settling for a 1-0 defeat was the obvious thing to do. Unfortunately, our players were not good enough.
 
judge said:
I was at villa park and we got steamrollered by a very good villa side including young carew and agbonlohar
They battered us in front of a full house in party mood celebrating the anniversary of their european cup victory


Just out of interest , what should warnock have done to win this game where most blades seem to think a more positive aproach would have definetly yeilded 3 points

Just looking at their team and its choc full of internationals like mellberg bouma sorensen berger barry yet all we had to do was try and win and its 3 points in the bag

Warnock really is tactically inept then
Or maybe some people just talk shit
Click to expand...

I was at that game and we rolled over to be tickled.
 
Darren said:
And to scotch another myth, a 2-0 defeat at Villa would have made no difference; we would still have needed a point against Wigan. On the other hand a draw at Villa would have seen us safe and a 1-0 defeat would have seen Wigan needing to beat us by 2. Call me stupid, but I think parking the bus at Villa and trying to get a draw or, at worst, settling for a 1-0 defeat was the obvious thing to do. Unfortunately, our players were not good enough.
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I'd have been happy if we parked the bus. but time and again we let Villa get behind our fullbacks.
 
bartman said:
We bought him from West Brom the season before. NW agreed to pay £1.2 million for him which would suggest he wasn't past it at that stage(he scored 14 goals the season before we bought him).He wasn't given the opportunity under NW and I would suggest he would have been a good partner for Stead. Basically, NW didn't give an opportunity to an experienced centre forward and then subsequently didn't provide cover for Hulse

In the January transfer window,NW should have ensured we had experience cover in Hulse's position. He chose not to do this and wasted money (2.75mill plus wages) on Fathi and Shelton plus spent further money(1.75 mill) on Killa who played 6 games for us in that season(in the same period, Lucketti played the same amount of games).

£4.5 million (plus wages) on those three players alone....shouldn't the priority have been on another forward ?
Click to expand...

Yes, but not Horsfield. If Warnock had identified a quality striker that he really wanted I think he would have signed him. I don't think the youngish January signings (for the future) was what prevented us from doing that.

At the time I wanted us to sign Robert Koren, a creative, attacking midfielder who went on to make close to 300 appearances for WBA and Hull, and who probably would have adapted quicker than Fathi.
 
Pinchy said:
There was certainly a difference on the last day. One team was on the front foot from the first whistle, the other like a rabbit in the headlights. Warnock was said to be a motivator. He must have been on holiday for the (disastrous) last eight days of the season.

We needed one, say it again, one point from our last two games (or even not to lose so heavily at Villa) to save our skins. We froze and never looked like doing it. That was nothing to do with West Ham.
Click to expand...


Each club has 38 days in a premier league season, not just a last day.

Why don't you go on about the first day when we were denied two extra points by an incredibly poor refereeing decision.

We should not have needed any points at all from the last game if those in authority had done their jobs properly. The fact that we did need something was very much to do with West Ham.
 

bartman said:
We bought him from West Brom the season before. NW agreed to pay £1.2 million for him which would suggest he wasn't past it at that stage(he scored 14 goals the season before we bought him).He wasn't given the opportunity under NW and I would suggest he would have been a good partner for Stead. Basically, NW didn't give an opportunity to an experienced centre forward and then subsequently didn't provide cover for Hulse

In the January transfer window,NW should have ensured we had experience cover in Hulse's position. He chose not to do this and wasted money (2.75mill plus wages) on Fathi and Shelton plus spent further money(1.75 mill) on Killa who played 6 games for us in that season(in the same period, Lucketti played the same amount of games).

£4.5 million (plus wages) on those three players alone....shouldn't the priority have been on another forward ?
Click to expand...

So what Warnock actually needed to do was persuade an experienced Premiership goalscoring target man to sit on our bench as "cover for Hulse", while earning Championship level wages. Maybe that wasn't actually possible or realistic, so he signed Stead as a potential partner/cover for Hulse instead?
 
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