Clough last season vs. this.

[Houso]

When Clough came in last season (whether through circumstances out of his control or through choice), he implemented a consistent system and a nicely settled side. We had great movement, confidence that belied our position/form and a rigidity that was a result of the strong spine that ran from front to back.

Obviously, it took him a few games to get to such a point, but that was with a team that wasn't his and with a full squad he'd not worked with. This time round the squad is invariably of his own choosing and he's working with players who he mostly knows inside out.

But to date this season (and indeed in the friendlies too), we've had multiple systems and a surprising (to say the least) set of teams on the pitch. It's no surprise that we've looked lost at sea for long spells.

Granted, we've only had 2 competitive games, but in just about every area we've looked well below par. It wasn't pretty early on last season when Clough started at the lane, but at least he emphasised the basics and we had that ridiculously strong spine in place. It would be nice if we could find it again and stick to it for more than 45 minutes.

(Note - before I get told off panicking and wanting Clough out, this couldn't be further from the truth. I think he's the man to lead us for a long long time, but in my opinion - just like players can be - he's been well off form this season so far).

 

[LSF]

I think we may well have to get used to this modus operandi. His signings (so far) suggest we will see rotation being the order of the day depending on the opposition.
Of course I could be miles out on this but thus far, he doesn't appear to be decided on the squads best and most effective 11, and of course we wont win any titles or promotion with just 11 players, but last season as Houso says, he came in, looked, added here and there and played pretty much the same way every game.
Up to now (and it is very early), that formula is not the way to go this year.

 

[Rodders]

We keep being told on here that it doesn't matter about the first 11, our squad is better than it was last year. Let's see if that's true.

 

[Houso]

It's individual decisions that baffle me too. I don't understand what we'll get by crowbarring Baxter on to the right for instance though; other than confirmation that it's not his position.

To my mind, we have a much stronger squad than last season, so why we're trying players in unfamiliar positions I don't know. Playing one of our much vaunted youth players in their native position would make more sense.

 

[raul]

1) In Clough we trust
2) FFP
3) Wages
4) The Prince said he wasn't spending until we get to the Championship
5) We've already spent loads
6) FFP
7) You'd still be moaning if we signed Messi and Ronaldo
8) FFP

Bedwetter.

 

[Houso]

1) In Clough we trust
2) FFP
3) Wages
4) The Prince said he wasn't spending until we get to the Championship
5) We've already spent loads
6) FFP
7) You'd still be moaning if we signed Messi and Ronaldo
8) FFP

Bedwetter.

HOUSE!

 

[Rodley]

When Clough came in last season (whether through circumstances out of his control or through choice), he implemented a consistent system and a nicely settled side. We had great movement, confidence that belied our position/form and a rigidity that was a result of the strong spine that ran from front to back.

Obviously, it took him a few games to get to such a point, but that was with a team that wasn't his and with a full squad he'd not worked with. This time round the squad is invariably of his own choosing and he's working with players who he mostly knows inside out.

But to date this season (and indeed in the friendlies too), we've had multiple systems and a surprising (to say the least) set of teams on the pitch. It's no surprise that we've looked lost at sea for long spells.

Granted, we've only had 2 competitive games, but in just about every area we've looked well below par. It wasn't pretty early on last season when Clough started at the lane, but at least he emphasised the basics and we had that ridiculously strong spine in place. It would be nice if we could find it again and stick to it for more than 45 minutes.

(Note - before I get told off panicking and wanting Clough out, this couldn't be further from the truth. I think he's the man to lead us for a long long time, but in my opinion - just like players can be - he's been well off form this season so far).

 

[Revolution]

1) In Clough we trust
2) FFP
3) Wages
4) The Prince said he wasn't spending until we get to the Championship
5) We've already spent loads
6) FFP
7) You'd still be moaning if we signed Messi and Ronaldo
8) FFP

Bedwetter.

You forgot:

9. We're better off than Portsmouth
10. Man City lost games last year...they didn't give up
11. Harry wanted to go and we couldn't keep him here. I'm proud of the club for not accepting the first offer.
12. Man Utd sold Ronaldo, for crying out loud!

 

[Houso]

Which is fair Rodders No.2, but that does not excuse poor performances nor confusing managerial decisions.

If we can't criticise (or praise by association) until 10 games in, we may as well close the board until October.

 

[raul]

You forgot:

9. We're better off than Portsmouth
10. Man City lost games last year...they didn't give up
11. Harry wanted to go and we couldn't keep him here. I'm proud of the club for not accepting the first offer.
12. Man Utd sold Ronaldo, for crying out loud!

In that case

13) Why don't you tweet Jim?

Which is fair Rodders No.2, but that does not excuse poor performances nor confusing managerial decisions.

If we can't criticise (or praise by association) until 10 games in, we may as well close the board until October.

I agree baby Tickler, but have a read around.

 

[sheffielder]

Nigel's stock has gone back to the day he walked through the door for me. You could look at it that he came in and sorted us out, however we were still every hit and miss all the way up to the Fulham game, where was roughly playing the same team (swap Howard for Long) that lost 3-0 at Crewe.

What changed in the Fulham game was that Doyle got sent off and forced him to pack the midfield, and hey presto we had the formation that finished the season. He certainly never tried Baxter up top by himself before that or Porter as a super sub for the last 15 minutes. The new midfield helped Doyle, he relaxed and we got better.

The signings he is making now are starting to really take the piss. 'We will sell Maguire if it helps me improve the team'. Well someone tell me how a free transfer, released by Swindon who is cover is going to do that? It's gone from everyone saying, it's ok we are signing all these players to make the squad better and the team will be improved as the summer goes along. Well it hasn't and the squad is starting to look like a bag of spanners.

Nigel needs to get his team, formation and shape sorted as this season could get away from him.

 

[SwissBlade]

Houso I think the key to what you’ve said is that last season we had a ridiculously strong Spine. So far (and it is extremely early albeit in competitive games) he hasn’t got the spine settled yet.

In many ways, last season was easier for him to settle things down. He was coming into a side low on confidence and giving them a chance to start again, perhaps to begin with at least, there was no pressure on the players. Clough came in and just tweaked things a little in terms of the players, slowly introducing the fringe players one by one to give them their chances again.
Now he’s brought in a load of new players and whilst some are familiar to him, they’re not necessarily familiar to each other.

Also with Shoehorning players into unfamiliar positions, I don’t see any benefit in this other than improving fitness and perhaps appreciation of a position, which to me is too risky for competitive games. With Baxter, you know he’ll do a job anywhere, he may not be great there, but he’ll give you something. That’s ok if we don’t have a backup in a position, but with Baxter, he should only really be player as a central striker or a Centre midfielder, keep the wings for the wingers.

I don’t think we’ll have a settled back four before September and a fully settled best 11 by mid to end of sept.

 

[Kenilworth]

I've heard that we have been scouting overseas and the names Flotsam and Jetsam have cropped up regularly

 

[Houso]

I don’t think we’ll have a settled back four before September and a fully settled best 11 by mid to end of sept.

Well that's a miserable thought for the day.

Worried about what Clough apparently said yesterday about money being available, but frees offering good value. We don't bloody need good value, we need to get out of this sodding league.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

In that case

13) Why don't you tweet Jim?

I'm not on twitter

 

[SwissBlade]

Well that's a miserable thought for the day.

Worried about what Clough apparently said yesterday about money being available, but frees offering good value. We don't bloody need good value, we need to get out of this sodding league.

I think its realistic, I don’t think it’s particularly different to other teams or indeed many other seasons. We’re probably a little different this season as we’ve lost 2 of the back four that ended last season as well as Clough seeing this as an opportunity to tinker with the defence further, perhaps given the age of Collins and the pace/ youth available. It doesn’t necessarily mean we’ll ship more goals or lose games in August/ Sept.

Clough again going for value over paying is refreshing to hear. Example 12Million for Shane Long, 4 Million for Rickie Lambert, who gets you more goals…

 

[Deadly_D'Jaffo]

People criticising NC about experimenting with the team are conveniently forgetting the times he did it last season and it paying off;

Shrewsbury at Home. No recognised striker on the pitch, Scougs and Baxter as false 9's. We won.

Gillingham away. 3-5-2 formation. We won.

Peterborough at home. Second string team, Kennedy at CB, Miller on the wing, McFadzean LM. We won.

I concede that NC's best XI last season was absolutely clear. He can't suss it out this season over 1 league & 1 cup game. Give him time.

 

[true99blade]

We're not even a full week into the actual season and people on here are slagging Clough off. Give the man some time for Christs sake. The amount of threads complaining about Clough this season (1 league game and 1 cup game that we won) is just embarrassing.

 

[Fiery Blade]

Cannot believe some of the dross on here

From last seasons team we have lost:

• Maguire to Premier League Hull City
• Brayford has gone back to Championship Cardiff City
• Coady has gone to Championship Huddersfield
• Freeman decided he wanted more money to sign

The new players have been bedding in - some have them have not played a full game yet we are slagging them off !
One of Clough's replacements for the above Wallace has injury problems and is struggling, Higdon has not had a pre season so he is a tad behind the others as regards fitness, McNulty and McGahey are ones for the future, Collins and Porter are both a year older and even less mobile than last year, Murphy and Flynn are more akin to the Weir team than the Clough team of last year.

Its early days yet, we would be better off without the numbskulls who are judging this years team on two competitive games - Get back in your boxes and give Mr Clough a chance to get it right on the field - He will Have no doubt about that !!

 

[Houso]

Cannot believe some of the dross on here

From last seasons team we have lost:

• Maguire to Premier League Hull City
• Brayford has gone back to Championship Cardiff City
• Coady has gone to Championship Huddersfield
• Freeman decided he wanted more money to sign

The new players have been bedding in - some have them have not played a full game yet we are slagging them off !
One of Clough's replacements for the above Wallace has injury problems and is struggling, Higdon has not had a pre season so he is a tad behind the others as regards fitness, McNulty and McGahey are ones for the future, Collins and Porter are both a year older and even less mobile than last year, Murphy and Flynn are more akin to the Weir team than the Clough team of last year.

Its early days yet, we would be better off without the numbskulls who are judging this years team on two competitive games - Get back in your boxes and give Mr Clough a chance to get it right on the field - He will Have no doubt about that !!

Now, I'm comfortable taking criticism for criticising from some posters, but from the most critical whingy poster on here?!?! Give over.

 

[Fiery Blade]

Now, I'm comfortable taking criticism for criticising from some posters, but from the most critical whingy poster on here?!?! Give over.

I thank you, I am really touched that you think so much of me !!
Obviously I touched a nerve, never mentioned you by name but you have obviously assumed that my mention of dross was directed at your posts - If the cap fits - so they say !

 

[Houso]

I thank you, I am really touched that you think so much of me !!
Obviously I touched a nerve, never mentioned you by name but you have obviously assumed that my mention of dross was directed at your posts - If the cap fits - so they say !

Admittedly, I did make a huge leap in logic to come to the conclusion that I was included in your complaints about people being critical of Clough... when I had been critical of Clough in the OP.

 

[Bladesway]

3 ways (at least) of looking at this.

1) 2 games in, we never do well against lower league opposition in the cups, it will all be ok.
2) Its not "Clough out" or "Sack the Board" serious but 2 poor performances is disconcerting.
3) We are doomed we sold all our best players, the sky is falling in and we should sack everyone, now.

I am on a sliding scale towards 2 from 1 and of course the longer that goes on the worse it will get. Casting a critical eye over things no one has really shown themselves to be in great form (Reed perhaps the exception) in the friendlies and competitive games. Scougs has spluttered to life in parts but hasn't given a 90 minutes like last season. The players in are not names you would associate with bringing more quality in and when you look at what we lost last season in Brayford, Coady and Harry you have to say it doesn't look as strong right now.

Be nice if we had impressed in either of our competitive games, or our friendlies. In fact in our friendlies we have been pretty piss poor.

Of course we win our next 2 or at least impress and all that changes. I also think that last seasons start still weighs heavy on everyones mind.

Finally, when I hear phrases like "Theres good value in the free market" it always makes me shudder.

 

[Fiery Blade]

Admittedly, I did make a huge leap in logic to come to the conclusion that I was included in your complaints about people being critical of Clough... when I had been critical of Clough in the OP.

Never mentioned the criticism of Clough specifically just the dross that is being churned out on here in general - especially slagging off the players after just three hours of competitive football this season !

 

[Fiery Blade]

Nothing is better for confidence than winning - we have now won a game albiet against lower league opposition and scoring the winner in the 86th minute But a win is a win - it will help build confidence.
Give them a break - perhaps they may be better away from the moaners at BDTBL who are keen to get on their back after every mis placed pass, shot off target or mis timed tackle
Sometimes I wonder if so called supporters go to the game just to have a go at the players, the manager, the owners, in fact everyone to do with Sheffield United FC !
I have not turned into a clapper - I still think Porter is a waste of space, Doyle is very limited, Collins is slow, and how I miss the runs of Brayford and I get frustrated by the inconsistency of the players but I suppose that's why they are playing in the Third Tier of English football and not the Premier League !

 

[wizadry]

I think its realistic, I don’t think it’s particularly different to other teams or indeed many other seasons. We’re probably a little different this season as we’ve lost 2 of the back four that ended last season as well as Clough seeing this as an opportunity to tinker with the defence further, perhaps given the age of Collins and the pace/ youth available. It doesn’t necessarily mean we’ll ship more goals or lose games in August/ Sept.

Clough again going for value over paying is refreshing to hear. Example 12Million for Shane Long, 4 Million for Rickie Lambert, who gets you more goals…

Were not other teams though swiss,were Sheff Utd and were the biggest club in this division by a mile,yet we seem to do things the same way as the other very small clubs in this league,its this that makes me wonder what the fuck goes on when it comes to us doing it the cheap way

As for Clough going for value and been refreshing to hear,i'm sick to death of us doing it the cheap way and have done it for years and years now(apart from Robson)we don't have to spend 12 mill or 4 mill as you have put it,we have to replace the good players with good players and its this we fail to do year in year out and thats why we are in a steady decline.

Lets hope Cloughy gets his first xi sorted quickly and gets the basics right of playing people in their right positions.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

I think we may well have to get used to this modus operandi. His signings (so far) suggest we will see rotation being the order of the day depending on the opposition.
Of course I could be miles out on this but thus far, he doesn't appear to be decided on the squads best and most effective 11, and of course we wont win any titles or promotion with just 11 players, but last season as Houso says, he came in, looked, added here and there and played pretty much the same way every game.
Up to now (and it is very early), that formula is not the way to go this year.

Another way of looking at it is that he has already decided on his best 11 and they started against Bristol City.
He then rotated his squad against Mansfield to give a few fringe players a game, as most managers do in the early rounds of the cup.
For the next league game he may well go back to what he sees as his best 11. Including Davies at right back (he played well there last night) and Alcock at centre back (man of the match there against Bristol City).
We'll know more after Saturday but people seem to be confusing Clough not knowing his own mind with them not agreeing with the conclusions he's already come to.

 

[wizadry]

Another way of looking at it is that he has already decided on his best 11 and they started against Bristol City.
He then rotated his squad against Mansfield to give a few fringe players a game, as most managers do in the early rounds of the cup.
For the next league game he may well go back to what he sees as his best 11. Including Davies at right back (he played well there last night) and Alcock at centre back (man of the match there against Bristol City).
We'll know more after Saturday but people seem to be confusing Clough not knowing his own mind with them not agreeing with the conclusions he's already come to.

Lets put it this way Sothall_Blade,i'm going to stick my neck on the line hear and say if we persist with the Bristol city lineup in them positions Cloughy put the players in then we will be lucky to get to mid table,imo.

 

[Going up]

I think we will see a more defensive team at the weekend away from home.
To some degree, I agree, we may play better, more relaxed football away from home, the pressure of winning every match and away from the moaners. Good play takes confidence, a confidence to make a cutting pass, without fear of the moaners jumping on your back for trying.
I'm also in the group that finds it ridiculous that some of the new players, many of whom, have played MINUTES, are being written off as shite.
As for doing things on the cheap, Clough is frugal, that is for sure. Are we not tired of the overpaid underperforming stars yet! We only have to look at England to see where they get you! Clough bought wisely in Derby and brought through academy players, most of his aquisitions are still in the first team, most were cheap and most are now the stars in the team: Bryson, Buxton, Hughes, Henders etc.
Be patient and we will be great again.

 

[wizadry]

Are we not tired of the overpaid underperforming stars yet!

We have had a lot of overpaid players,an hell of a lot of underperforming players,but STARS? When was the last time we had any of them? And we certainly haven't had any of the three statements at the same time.

The rest of your post i more or less agreed with tbh,but can you tell me the last player,who you could actually call a star player at the lane, who has done it atleast the level above our respective league, because thats what i would class as a star player.