Alcock - the new Monty?

[SouthEssexBlade]

I think you could not be more wrong. Even Len wants us to win every game.

It's just easier to talk about setbacks than good results.

Easier or more fitting the agenda?

 

[Rodders]

Easier or more fitting the agenda?

"Agenda"? Utter bollocks. It's clearly obvious a defeat or poor performance attracts more posts, because people have their own ideas on what they'd do differently.
To coin a phrase: "it's not rocket science"

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

I only go for the beer. Fancy one sometime?

You missed a treat on Saturday with me, boundsgreen, Blackheath Blade and Andy (Enfield based Blade). Great afternoon, in spite of the result. So when next for a beer or three?

 

[Revolution]

Easier or more fitting the agenda?

There is no agenda, other than wanting to see the team do as well as it can.

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

"Agenda"? Utter bollocks. It's clearly obvious a defeat or poor performance attracts more posts, because people have their own ideas on what they'd do differently.
To coin a phrase: "it's not rocket science"

I disagree here SEB,what do you put when we win,when all goes well, and what do you put when we lose,when there is all sorts to have a chat,moan or what ever you want to call it about.

Saturdays match gave people a lot to talk about for a numerous of reasons and i for one thought alot of it was warranted,don't get me wrong some have over reacted abit,because just like you say its one match and i'm like you,i'd rather wait a while before i start making rash judgements,but you're going to get that with every fan base,especially one who can get 20,000 fans for a match on t.v.

I agree it's easier to moan and complain than constantly praise and that poor performances/defeats generate debate on what went wrong. However there are some who vanish after a win. And agreed, it's not rocket science, if you knew someone who when you saw them never did anything but moan and complain, almost always about the same thing, would you not think they had some sort of agenda?

 

[Grecian2000]

Easier or more fitting the agenda?

Do you think the coaching staff debate a defeat more than a victory?

I've never heard of a team being locked in the dressing room after a 5-0 win.

There is ALWAYS more to talk about after a defeat, what went wrong, how do you put it right, will it happen again. What's to talk about after a big win, well done lads same again next week. Might as well close this place down.

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

There is no agenda, other than wanting to see the team do as well as it can.

So when that happens and people get what they want, the thing they've been complaining and moaning about that is so wrong and is now right, they disappear? Doesn't make sense!

 

[Maidenhead]

You missed a treat on Saturday with me, boundsgreen, Blackheath Blade and Andy (Enfield based Blade). Great afternoon, in spite of the result. So when next for a beer or three?

Started with a good breakfast in Bankers Draft on saturday but the day went downhill badly.

Went to the Red Lion after the game in the hope of catching the RL semi on tv but the powers that be wouldn't put it on.

We only stayed for one as all our initial enthusiasm for the day had completely evaporated.

Then we wandered down to the station only to find our train had been delayed for 45 mins due to the "unavailabilty of a member of staff" somewhere in the midlands.

As a result the zoneman and I made separate alternative arrangements.

Wasn't a great start to the season.

Hopefully the only way is up or it's going to be a long time til May

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

Do you think the coaching staff debate a defeat more than a victory?

I've never heard of a team being locked in the dressing room after a 5-0 win.

There is ALWAYS more to talk about after a defeat, what went wrong, how do you put it right, will it happen again. What's to talk about after a big win, well done lads same again next week. Might as well close this place down.

I can guarantee that all coaching staff at any reasonable level will discuss and debate a victory as much, if not more, than a defeat. Seeing what's gone wrong is fairly obvious most of the time, whereas identifying what was right and worked is the most elusive of things. If it was a simple as same again next week, teams wouldn't need much coaching.

 

[Revolution]

I can guarantee that all coaching staff at any reasonable level will discuss and debate a victory as much, if not more, than a defeat. Seeing what's gone wrong is fairly obvious most of the time, whereas identifying what was right and worked is the most elusive of things. If it was a simple as same again next week, teams wouldn't need much coaching.

Proves the point. Anyone can spot errors, and comment on them.

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

Proves the point. Anyone can spot errors, and comment on them.

sorry, better revise that. Seeing what's gone wrong is fairly obvious to those who know what to look for.....

 

[Pinchy]

There's some fucking genius scouts on here. I'm going to ring Clough2 tomorrow and tell him that what him and rest of the professional scouting network have been doing is a waste of time and effort. Watching players numerous times, drawing up detailed dossier, using critical data analysis from Opta and all the rest...fuck that just get 90 minutes or less watched and job done!

I beg to be excluded SEB. I was careful to say that I was merely commenting on a single display and not writing the player off.

You should know by now that when I conclusively give up on a player I signal that view in the time-honoured fashion - the legendary silly nickname.

 

[Grecian2000]

To be fair Pinchy, I haven't read anyone write anyone off. Just the usual over reation to anyone not liking what they saw at the match.

If players play well the get praised then no mention. If they play badly and get castigated they become "scapegoats". Laughable really.

 

[Sheff de party]

AS I've been saying LSF, it's either blinding ignorance or other agenda motives. Blind ignorance is almost understandable as plenty who watch the game have never played to any level and have no great insight, however if I find myself in that situation with other things I either shut up or talk very generally. Most of what we see on here IMO is very much other agenda stuff. An element seem to want the club to balls up, enjoy the bad times so they can vent their spleen and rag the club/McCabe/game changing investment whatever. And of course, there is always the scapegoat to identify, the 'new monty' or 'new Quinn'.

Do you actually read what you write? So if I only watch one game, I know nothing, but you can say I have "blind ignorance", "never the played the game to any level" and "have no great insight" from one opinion written on a screen. Are you serious?

As for other agenda, find me a post I wrote where I criticise McCabe and rag the club and I'll gladly apologise. That was my honest opinion on a player who has limited footballing ability.

Seriously, maybe get the missus to sense check what you write...

 

[Sheff de party]

Chatting? That's fine, but making definitive statements about players after seeing barely one game is something else.

The game generates opinions, which is why it is so popular. Having opinion based on no information at all isn't opinion but negativity to push another agenda.

"He looks like..." and "Others have seen him play more than me, but my immediate reaction is..."

If I were you, I'd look up what "definitive" and "opinion" mean.

As for "pushing an agenda", I honestly have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Sheff de party]

I beg to be excluded SEB. I was careful to say that I was merely commenting on a single display and not writing the player off.

You should know by now that when I conclusively give up on a player I signal that view in the time-honoured fashion - the legendary silly nickname.

As was I, but now I've been put in the "have an agenda" group for some reason.

 

[Sheff de party]

To be fair Pinchy, I haven't read anyone write anyone off. Just the usual over reation to anyone not liking what they saw at the match.

If players play well the get praised then no mention. If they play badly and get castigated they become "scapegoats". Laughable really.

You're not talking about me are you? In my defence, my post quite clearly says "I was really, really impressed with McGahey."

 

[Grecian2000]

You're not talking about me are you? In my defence, my post quite clearly says "I was really, really impressed with McGahey."

No, not you.

I'm moaning about the moaners who moan about moaners.

I'm all for people talking about what they've seen. If they've seen a crap game/performance then say so. Some players played poorly on Saturday (and some more didn't do themselves justice last night as well) and not to be able to say so without getting castigated is just stupid.

 

[Fiery Blade]

It's OK to say so and so had a shocker, or so and so didn't do themselves justice but we have idiots on here writing people off on the strength of a 50 minute appearance in early August
McNulty for instance scored goals last season and yet we have so called supporters calling him rubbish - give the lad a chance !

 

[Sheff de party]

No, not you.

I'm moaning about the moaners who moan about moaners.

I'm all for people talking about what they've seen. If they've seen a crap game/performance then say so. Some players played poorly on Saturday (and some more didn't do themselves justice last night as well) and not to be able to say so without getting castigated is just stupid.

Ah indeed. Sorry I misread your original one. Completely agree. If i don't like what I see, I'd like to be able to say so.

I'd especially like to express a few concerns about a defender's footballing ability and calmness, whilst applauding his commitment, without someone thinking I'm having a pop at McCabe and being a senseless doom merchant! Happy for people to disagree on footballing grounds obviously.

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

Do you actually read what you write? So if I only watch one game, I know nothing, but you can say I have "blind ignorance", "never the played the game to any level" and "have no great insight" from one opinion written on a screen. Are you serious?

As for other agenda, find me a post I wrote where I criticise McCabe and rag the club and I'll gladly apologise. That was my honest opinion on a player who has limited footballing ability.

Seriously, maybe get the missus to sense check what you write...

I think you're taking this too personally, SDP. My original post was not aimed at any one individual (and certainly not your OP) but at the reaction generally to one game against Bristol City and people coming on and saying 'X is too slow' 'Wallace the new Ebril (sp)' etc. Actually, your OP I more or less agree with (although I think Alcock has bit more about him than just being a clogger) and I also agree he could be a target for the scapegoat brigade in a sort of Monty sylie.

Again all the subsequent points are generalised about certain elements on here, who show a clear ignorance of the game but are quick to jump in a criticise, and I do think that much of it is poorly disguised 'bash the board' stuff.

Apologies if you think I was attacking you personally, I wasn't. Some of the comments that followed your OP, however......

 

[Sheff de party]

I think you're taking this too personally, SDP. My original post was not aimed at any one individual (and certainly not your OP) but at the reaction generally to one game against Bristol City and people coming on and saying 'X is too slow' 'Wallace the new Ebril (sp)' etc. Actually, your OP I more or less agree with (although I think Alcock has bit more about him than just being a clogger) and I also agree he could be a target for the scapegoat brigade in a sort of Monty sylie.

Again all the subsequent points are generalised about certain elements on here, who show a clear ignorance of the game but are quick to jump in a criticise, and I do think that much of it is poorly disguised 'bash the board' stuff.

Apologies if you think I was attacking you personally, I wasn't. Some of the comments that followed your OP, however......

Haha, well do I feel sheepish That'll teach me to quickly read the forum whilst at work and snap at one post! Sorry.

On that topic, I do feel sorry for McNulty, who seems to have been lashed as a waste of money already, although he did at least score last night.

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

Haha, well do I feel sheepish That'll teach me to quickly read the forum whilst at work and snap at one post! Sorry.

On that topic, I do feel sorry for McNulty, who seems to have been lashed as a waste of money already, although he did at least score last night.

It's that sort of knee-jerk reaction, of writing a player off on 50 minutes of evidence that I was railing at. I've no problem with anyone saying, 'that was a crap performance by McNulty.' But the stuff you describe for him is so obviously nonsense, I take the view it's 'other agenda' stuff. Surely, Murphy and Flynn from last season is clear proof that even a dozen games is not always going to give an accurate assessment of a player, never mind 50 minutes.

 

[Sheff de party]

It's that sort of knee-jerk reaction, of writing a player off on 50 minutes of evidence that I was railing at. I've no problem with anyone saying, 'that was a crap performance by McNulty.' But the stuff you describe for him is so obviously nonsense, I take the view it's 'other agenda' stuff. Surely, Murphy and Flynn from last season is clear proof that even a dozen games is not always going to give an accurate assessment of a player, never mind 50 minutes.

Indeed, especially for McNulty when he's so young.

I still can't get my head around Flynn last season! I've seen him play plenty of times and just thought he was rubbish, then he turns it all around and becomes one of our best players. I can only assume that was the manager getting the best out of him.

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

Indeed, especially for McNulty when he's so young.

I still can't get my head around Flynn last season! I've seen him play plenty of times and just thought he was rubbish, then he turns it all around and becomes one of our best players. I can only assume that was the manager getting the best out of him.

Professional footballers are a funny breed, SDP. Doesn't take much to put them off their game, and by the same token the most subtle of changes can illicit miraculous upturns in form.