Post Brexit

[Rodley]

There is nothing 'real" about it. It's a forecast of what we MIGHT have grown by.

Who is making the forecast and what is their level of expertise in such matters?

If some aren’t willing to at least pause and listen to the Bank of England on matters of the UKe economy, some have truly crossed the rubicon surely?

 

[Upton_Blade]

But growing 6% less is a bit disastrous really.

I do look around at how the high streets (and the country at large) has deteriorated this last 10 years and wonder whether 6% more growth would have been useful. But you can’t say owt these days, sadly.

I agree with the country at large bit but IMHO Brexit hasn't done any extra harm to the High Streets that wouldn't have been done anyway.

Theoretically say we had the extra 6% growth would that change people's shopping habits? Would the council have completely ripped up their ludicrous policies that actively discourage shoppers from using the High Street?

I reckon in both instances the answer is no.

 

[HuddersfieldBlade]

Least our bananas are still banana shaped

It's Straight Bananas That Made Me Support Brexit Too

That the banana industry has an internally agreed standard for what is a Class 1 banana is just fine, most useful in fact. A legal and economic regime which makes selling a bendy banana for human consumption a criminal offence is something to be escaped at the first opportunity.

www.forbes.com

 

[Shawy24]

How do you know 100% that it wouldn't have fallen 6% if we had stayed in the EU.

Clutching at fucking straws. Keep clutching. Everything is fine. It’s all working out brilliantly. How do we know that an asteroid wouldn’t have wiped us out.

 

[Rodley]

Clutching at fucking straws. Keep clutching. Everything is fine. It’s all working out brilliantly. How do we know that an asteroid wouldn’t have wiped us out.

It’s not an economic argument, it’s an ideological and emotional one now. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that, but I do shake my head at people moaning about increased taxes, lack of jobs, lack of infrastructure, shops closing due to lack of consumer spending, when that missing GDP would have greatly helped.

Over to General Chat we go anyway

 

[I should coco]

Who is making the forecast and what is their level of expertise in such matters?

If some aren’t willing to at least pause and listen to the Bank of England on matters of the UKe economy, some have truly crossed the rubicon surely?

As forecasters go, the BoE have to be top notch. The thing is, that any forecast is a calculated estimate, based on myriad assumptions.
It most certainly isn't a fact' that would have happened. Obviously it could be better or worse, either way.

 

[Klaatu Barada Nikto]

It’s not an economic argument, it’s an ideological and emotional one now. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that, but I do shake my head at people moaning about increased taxes, lack of jobs, lack of infrastructure, shops closing due to lack of consumer spending, when that missing GDP would have greatly helped.

Over to General Chat we go anyway

It always was.

 

[Rodley]

As forecasters go, the BoE have to be top notch. The thing is, that any forecast is a calculated estimate, based on myriad assumptions.
It most certainly isn't a fact' that would have happened. Obviously it could be better or worse, either way.

But my point is if people are just prepared to instantly dismiss the analysis of the BOE, they either don’t care about the economy or they, after 10 years, cannot have a rational discussion about it. It’s akin to talking to a Wednesdayite about attendances or discussing religion with a zealot!

I find that pretty remarkable after 10 years.

 

[Broomhall Blade]

But my point is if people are just prepared to instantly dismiss the analysis of the BOE, they either don’t care about the economy or they, after 10 years, cannot have a rational discussion about it. It’s akin to talking to a Wednesdayite about attendances or discussing religion with a zealot!

I find that pretty remarkable after 10 years.

Or talking about Brexit with a Pro European

 

[Rodley]

Or talking about Brexit with a Pro European

Well if you want to post some of the positives, I’ll happy to discuss them.

 

[BazWainwright]

So you are saying if we had stayed in the EU I would be £2700-£3800 better off ?

Yep

 

[alcoblade]

Who is making the forecast and what is their level of expertise in such matters?

If some aren’t willing to at least pause and listen to the Bank of England on matters of the UKe economy, some have truly crossed the rubicon surely?

Yet you're happy to bring up the Dublin accord on a regular basis, yet not address the factual (not forecast) outcome of what it delivered?

 

[I should coco]

But my point is if people are just prepared to instantly dismiss the analysis of the BOE, they either don’t care about the economy or they, after 10 years, cannot have a rational discussion about it. It’s akin to talking to a Wednesdayite about attendances or discussing religion with a zealot!

I find that pretty remarkable after 10 years.

I don't know why you find it remarkable.

As I said ealier, I voted remain, but I understand why many voted to leave, which many Pro-Europeans still seem to find difficult. I'd say most leavers didn't really consider the economy, especially if they felt their lives were already pretty shit. Even the London centric BBC, finally understand, that the major reason for most, was immigration.

So the BoE could say 50% if they want, but then we are getting back to Cameron's 'Project Fear'. It is all conjecture and supposition, so it's not really surprising that people just dig in to their entrencehd positions.

 

[Rodley]

I don't know why you find it remarkable.

As I said ealier, I voted remain, but I understand why many voted to leave, which many Pro-Europeans still seem to find difficult. I'd say most leavers didn't really consider the economy, especially if they felt their lives were already pretty shit. Even the London centric BBC, finally understand, that the major reason for most, was immigration.

So the BoE could say 50% if they want, but then we are getting back to Cameron's 'Project Fear'. It is all conjecture and supposition, so it's not really surprising that people just dig in to their entrencehd positions.

But it’s remarkable surely that it’s akin to discussing or challenging a religion, rather than a rational discussion. It’s been ten years and whilst I think the fervour has diminished as polling indicates, it is bizarre that it’s still like this. IMHO anyway.

I do wholly agree that if you’re lives shit, it remains shit and the last 10 years are neither here nor there. But IMHO that remains a discussion about domestic redistribution of wealth, investment and opportunity, rather than the EU membership. And Brexit has done nothing to improve that at all.

Anyway one for General Chat. UTB

 

[pedro]

But it’s remarkable surely that it’s akin to discussing or challenging a religion, rather than a rational discussion. It’s been ten years and whilst I think the fervour has diminished as polling indicates, it is bizarre that it’s still like this. IMHO anyway.

I do wholly agree that if you’re lives shit, it remains shit and the last 10 years are neither here nor there. But IMHO that remains a discussion about domestic redistribution of wealth, investment and opportunity, rather than the EU membership. And Brexit has done nothing to improve that at all.

Anyway one for General Chat. UTB

I never liked being ruled by forriners they think different speak different ergo they are different

 

[BazWainwright]

I never liked being ruled by forriners they think different speak different ergo they are different

I'm taking that as an unironic comment?

If so, it would be great if people who hold such views could extrapolate what they mean by 'ruled by foreigners', especially as we live in a constitutional monarchy, France is a Social Democratic Republic, Germany a Federal Republic, Spain a Democratic Sovereignty and Italy a Parliamentary Republic. None of them are 'ruled by foreigners' in any way, shape or form. They all have their individual, indivisible and undeniable right to embody the executive and constitutional rights to govern as their wish provided by a mandate of their own voters. There are, however, plenty of agreements and rights embodied by all member states to protect that and enshrine it, so anyone alluding shady forces in Strasbourg or Brussels 'tell us what to do' doesn't understand how the European Union works. We own our own laws and regulations. We pass them through parliament and the Lords three times and various committees and focus groups and pass them on to the statute books without the help of the EU (as it were). We also have the right of veto against any amendment, principle or law or new regulation generated by the European Council (who we elected MEPs to) if they affect our outcomes.

Schengen, for example.

 

[Bladesman]

Worth a read in comparison to other EU countries since Brexit / COVID

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xunroll.com

 

[Kozzy_is_my_Dad]

I'm taking that as an unironic comment?

If so, it would be great if people who hold such views could extrapolate what they mean by 'ruled by foreigners', especially as we live in a constitutional monarchy, France is a Social Democratic Republic, Germany a Federal Republic, Spain a Democratic Sovereignty and Italy a Parliamentary Republic. None of them are 'ruled by foreigners' in any way, shape or form. They all have their individual, indivisible and undeniable right to embody the executive and constitutional rights to govern as their wish provided by a mandate of their own voters. There are, however, plenty of agreements and rights embodied by all member states to protect that and enshrine it, so anyone alluding shady forces in Strasbourg or Brussels 'tell us what to do' doesn't understand how the European Union works. We own our own laws and regulations. We pass them through parliament and the Lords three times and various committees and focus groups and pass them on to the statute books without the help of the EU (as it were). We also have the right of veto against any amendment, principle or law or new regulation generated by the European Council (who we elected MEPs to) if they affect our outcomes.

Schengen, for example.

There is, undoubtedly, within the 51% a shed load of confusion as to what people were voting for, what they were voting to end, what they felt they were regaining control over, and what they felt 'getting Brexit done' equated to.

I'm not sure that many, if any, achieved the Brexit that they were hoping for in its fullest form.

 

[Nick Jansky]

There is, undoubtedly, within the 51% a shed load of confusion as to what people were voting for, what they were voting to end, what they felt they were regaining control over, and what they felt 'getting Brexit done' equated to.

I'm not sure that many, if any, achieved the Brexit that they were hoping for in its fullest form.

The main protagonists of Brexit very successfully avoided the Anti Tax Avoidance Directive, which was really what the whole thing was all about, and why there was a mad dash to get it done no matter how bad the deal was. So I would say they got exactly what they wanted.

 

[BazWainwright]

There is, undoubtedly, within the 51% a shed load of confusion as to what people were voting for, what they were voting to end, what they felt they were regaining control over, and what they felt 'getting Brexit done' equated to.

I'm not sure that many, if any, achieved the Brexit that they were hoping for in its fullest form.

Truth is, there were a lot of people enabled in making a binary decision with stupid outcomes. Leave, and we:

1. Take Back Control. What the hell that means is unexplainable.
2. Stop the boats and the brown people. Well, it was evident before the vote that may be problematic and outside the EU nigh on impossible.
3. Stop 'being told what to do by unelected EU mandarins'. When people were asked how this works you were met with silence.
4. Stop silly EU 'laws' being foisted upon us. Again, if you asked what 'laws' the EU foisted that directly impacted them, they couldn't name one.
5. We'd save so much money and be able to trade freely. Oh, yeah? Like £350m to the NHS? And 'oven ready' trade deals?

For such a critical outcome also, a simple 50%+ majority vote to leave was ridiculously wrong. It should have been higher, to 'change'. I'm aware there are many leavers now hiding buyer's regret and desperately defending their decision and tub thumping with shaky excuses and reasoning, even when faced with the truths.

Big problem is, if we ever deign to want to return, we face the far right out on the streets again, and our return will - if granted at all - be under condition of a whole load of concessions; we join the Eurozone, we suspend Schengen and the Dublin Accord and accept higher levels of migrancy and we formulate an EU Armed Forces. We would have to step right in line with other medium level states and swallow more dogshit than we did prior to 2016.

 

[CamelBlade]

Truth is, there were a lot of people enabled in making a binary decision with stupid outcomes. Leave, and we:

1. Take Back Control. What the hell that means is unexplainable.
2. Stop the boats and the brown people. Well, it was evident before the vote that may be problematic and outside the EU nigh on impossible.
3. Stop 'being told what to do by unelected EU mandarins'. When people were asked how this works you were met with silence.
4. Stop silly EU 'laws' being foisted upon us. Again, if you asked what 'laws' the EU foisted that directly impacted them, they couldn't name one.
5. We'd save so much money and be able to trade freely. Oh, yeah? Like £350m to the NHS? And 'oven ready' trade deals?

For such a critical outcome also, a simple 50%+ majority vote to leave was ridiculously wrong. It should have been higher, to 'change'. I'm aware there are many leavers now hiding buyer's regret and desperately defending their decision and tub thumping with shaky excuses and reasoning, even when faced with the truths.

Big problem is, if we ever deign to want to return, we face the far right out on the streets again, and our return will - if granted at all - be under condition of a whole load of concessions; we join the Eurozone, we suspend Schengen and the Dublin Accord and accept higher levels of migrancy and we formulate an EU Armed Forces. We would have to step right in line with other medium level states and swallow more dogshit than we did prior to 2016.

Brilliant. A perfect study in "you were a bit thick and didn't vote the way your betters wanted so lets whine and complain until we get what we want".

 

[BazWainwright]

Brilliant. A perfect study in "you were a bit thick and didn't vote the way your betters wanted so lets whine and complain until we get what we want".

No. Possibly more, 'when making an epoch-defining decision, try going beyond baseline xenophobia'.

I ignored all the background noise from both sides before going to the polling booth on 23 June 2016.

My defining questions before voting were:

a. Do I dislike foreigners? (No)
b. Do I think the EU has problems (Yes)
c. Are we better inside and influencing rather than outside and powerless? (Yes)
d. Do I believe the '£350m for NHS' claim? (No)
e. Is there a migration/asylum problem? (Yes)
f. Will leaving the EU solve that? (No)
e. How much 'control' will we be 'taking back'? (Not clear at all)
f. Will the country be better off economically, politically, socially, security-wise? (Absolutely not)
e. What framework of leaving and existence outside the EU will we adopt? (No details)

I am not your 'better', so please, don't adopt some sort of inferiority complex. You are mirroring the 'unelected EU mandarins telling us what to do' claim and it's a bit self-pitying and weak. Brexiters have to take full responsibility however for their own ignorance and mistakes. It was you who on 24 June 2016 rejoiced and told those who voted to stay we were wrong and we'd be in a better place when we left, with absolutely no evidence to support it. It was Brexiters as a lumpen mass who used the term 'Project Fear' and ridiculed those with serious reservations that the claims just did not add up. Now its Brexiters looking round at any totemic excuse to blame that 'Brexit wasn't done right' and that the rest of the EU ... and who can blame them ... aren't being nice to us for leaving their club and withdrawing our subscription.

And people still think Nigel Farage is a sound bloke who 'says it like it is' and is a man of integrity and truth.

 

[CamelBlade]

Yet more proof of my comment

 

[Rodley]

The main protagonists of Brexit very successfully avoided the Anti Tax Avoidance Directive, which was really what the whole thing was all about, and why there was a mad dash to get it done no matter how bad the deal was. So I would say they got exactly what they wanted.

Irony being the loss of GDP means we’re all paying more tax for public services.

 

[I should coco]

Irony being the loss of GDP means we’re all paying more tax for public services.

No; We are paying more tax, because of the government's policies.

With a larger GDP, the tax % if GDP would fall, but the actual tax amount in £sterling would not.

Your quote is plain wrong.

 

[BazWainwright]

Yet more proof of my comment

What is?

Look, this is sounding like 'your mum'. Why not articulate what you mean instead of this rather mardy-arsed, single-level retort? Did you vote to leave? Do you accept responsibility for making what was (given the downswing of the financial crash and the Tories badly pitched 'austerity' policy as a remedy) and shockingly ignorant, single-issue decision based upon what can only be pitched as a distrust and loathing of the mount of brown and black skinned people and an imagined scenario that French politicians in some far off glass building are spitefully making you pay more cash for your fish and chips 'just because'?

Why did you vote to leave the EU, as a matter of fact? C'mon. Cards on the table. What were the reasons, and how much actual thought DID you make before you put your 'X' in the box?

 

[Rodley]

No; We are paying more tax, because of the government's policies.

With a larger GDP, the tax % if GDP would fall, but the actual tax amount in £sterling would not.

Your quote is plain wrong.

Happy to stand corrected but if we lose tax revenue due to loss of GDP, we need to make it up elsewhere - changes in policy have occurred presumably as a result of that (if the economy was humming we could get policy of tax cuts / changes in thresholds).

 

[I should coco]

Happy to stand corrected but if we lose tax revenue due to loss of GDP, we need to make it up elsewhere - changes in policy have occurred presumably as a result of that (if the economy was humming we could get policy of tax cuts / changes in thresholds).

We haven't 'lost' tax revenue. The current government is increasing the overall we pay (frozen allowances, stealth taxes etc), i e, the tax burden as a % of GDP has risen. If GDP rose, this %age would fall, but the amount of tax collected would remain the same.

There is no direct link between tax and GDP, although government policies can affect both.

 

[CamelBlade]

What is?

Look, this is sounding like 'your mum'. Why not articulate what you mean instead of this rather mardy-arsed, single-level retort? Did you vote to leave? Do you accept responsibility for making what was (given the downswing of the financial crash and the Tories badly pitched 'austerity' policy as a remedy) and shockingly ignorant, single-issue decision based upon what can only be pitched as a distrust and loathing of the mount of brown and black skinned people and an imagined scenario that French politicians in some far off glass building are spitefully making you pay more cash for your fish and chips 'just because'?

Why did you vote to leave the EU, as a matter of fact? C'mon. Cards on the table. What were the reasons, and how much actual thought DID you make before you put your 'X' in the box?

I don't need to justify my vote and won't. Certainly not to you on a football website. I'm sorry for carrying this on everyone else.
PS your picture is great sums up your attitude well. Arrogant know-all.

 

[BazWainwright]

PS your picture is great sums up your attitude well. Arrogant know-all.

And there we have it, readers.

When you challenge Brexiters as to why they voted to leave, they have no reason.

One just assumes they swallowed all the bs and don't like people 'not like them', because they have little else to say.

There's nothing arrogant about having an argument and a principle.

There's everything arrogant about not engaging because 'I'm not telling you why know I am right and you have a picture of Jason King and I think it's horrid and nasty'