Incoming? Phil Jones - coaching staff

[Shadota]

Think you’ll find the VAR decision changed the game completely. Had it stood we’d have come out 3-0 winners that day. The momentum swung solely on that decision

Arguing over the VAR decision is pointless. By the laws of the game as they are currently written, that goal was illegitimate. Maybe the pattern of the game changes if we go 2-0 up, but I doubt that Sunderland side, with their fans being noisy as hell, would have just bent over and let us walk away with the game. They certainly didn't do so in either of the regular season matches.

The more telling issue within that match, is how we allowed Sunderland back into the game. They made a slight tactical adjustment to have a bigger lad on Kieffer Moore all the time, so he couldn't win every aerial ball, and then applied pressure to us with the likes of Mayenda, Isidor, Watson, Le Fee, etc., in an attempt to force a mistake, to give themselves an opportunity to get back into the game. And because we'd spent nearly all season playing in a manner of "get in front and don't concede", we had nothing in response - No "Plan B" to counter Sunderlands tactics that put us on the back foot.

We should have looked at using our pacy players from the bench to stretch them on the counter-attack. Brooks showed that they were fragile at the back in that 2nd half - if he had a bit more composure he would have scored for 2-0 anyway and the VAR shite would be completely redundant. Instead we just put all our eggs in the basket of "let's defend our 1-goal lead for 45+ minutes - they won't get through us".

 

[Balham]

Arguing over the VAR decision is pointless. By the laws of the game as they are currently written, that goal was illegitimate. Maybe the pattern of the game changes if we go 2-0 up, but I doubt that Sunderland side, with their fans being noisy as hell, would have just bent over and let us walk away with the game. They certainly didn't do so in either of the regular season matches.

The more telling issue within that match, is how we allowed Sunderland back into the game. They made a slight tactical adjustment to have a bigger lad on Kieffer Moore all the time, so he couldn't win every aerial ball, and then applied pressure to us with the likes of Mayenda, Isidor, Watson, Le Fee, etc., in an attempt to force a mistake, to give themselves an opportunity to get back into the game. And because we'd spent nearly all season playing in a manner of "get in front and don't concede", we had nothing in response - No "Plan B" to counter Sunderlands tactics that put us on the back foot.

We should have looked at using our pacy players from the bench to stretch them on the counter-attack. Brooks showed that they were fragile at the back in that 2nd half - if he had a bit more composure he would have scored for 2-0 anyway and the VAR shite would be completely redundant. Instead we just put all our eggs in the basket of "let's defend our 1-goal lead for 45+ minutes - they won't get through us".

Spot on. Sunderland also replaced Neil and Rigg with Watson and Roberts to widen the pitch and force our full backs backwards. In doing so - they were chasing the game - they ended up in a 4-1-3-2 formation with Bellingham alone in central midfield. We lost all composure and Wilder's substitutions were about getting specific players on the pitch, not about reacting to what was happening.

A far more sensible approach would have been for us to go to a back 3 after Roberts came on, with Seriki replacing Brewster and either Souza moving back into the middle or by bringing on Holding for Choudhury. That would have got us up the pitch and past their press, forcing the wingers to drop 10-20 yards. We could even have packed the midfield with a 3-4-2-1 if necessary, playing O'Hare and Hamer off Moore. Of course, this doesn't account for Brooks being denied by a great 1-on-1 save and Moore taking eons to decide between shooting and playing in Campbell (?) before doing neither.

 

[Willglynning]

I doubt that Sunderland side, with their fans being noisy as hell, would have just bent over and let us walk away with the game. They certainly didn't do so in either of the regular season matches.

Potentially misremembering this, but I don't recall their fans being 'noisy as hell' prior to the goal being disallowed - especially as we had been so dominant in the game to that point.

I feel like 2-0 at that stage of the game would have killed any potential momentum they had.

 

[Blade58]

Defensive coach I think?

 

[KMC-1889]

They didn't deserve promotion and you are only guessing on the rest. First sentence I agree with.

Well they did deserve it because they met the requirements needed to achieve it.

We’ve got two seasons of evidence to point towards us stinking the place out. It’s vastly more likely than us pushing for Europe.

 

[ISZA ⚔️]

They didn't and you should find another hobby

I might start making my own United shirts like you did that time

 

[Valley Blade]

Well they did deserve it because they met the requirements needed to achieve it.

We’ve got two seasons of evidence to point towards us stinking the place out. It’s vastly more likely than us pushing for Europe.

You don't automatically deserve something because you achieve it. Sunderland are a very good example of previous seasons having no bearing whatsoever.

 

[KMC-1889]

You don't automatically deserve something because you achieve it.

 

[Valley Blade]

View attachment 238864

Do you believe that everything is just and fair then? Can you not be incredibly unlucky, treated differently or simply cheated in any aspect of life?

 

[KMC-1889]

Do you believe that everything is just and fair then? Can you not be incredibly unlucky, treated differently or simply cheated in any aspect of life?

We’re not talking about life. We’re talking about a sporting competition with a codified ruleset played in a controlled environment.

Sunderland deserved to be promoted because they played well enough to get jnto the play off positions, managed their squad well and managed the final. We didn’t. So we didn’t get promoted. It wasn’t some larger cosmic injustice. We did what we always do under wilder, as soon as something went against us we completely folded and didn’t react.

 

[Valley Blade]

We’re not talking about life. We’re talking about a sporting competition with a codified ruleset played in a controlled environment.

Sunderland deserved to be promoted because they played well enough to get jnto the play off positions, managed their squad well and managed the final. We didn’t. So we didn’t get promoted. It wasn’t some larger cosmic injustice. We did what we always do under wilder, as soon as something went against us we completely folded and didn’t react.

Sunderland were incredibly lucky. They were outplayed for a large percentage of the match. They benefited from fortune on the day. Just because you win doesn't make you deserving of it. That's football and life in general. Fair play to Sunderland for making the most of it but don't pretend that United weren't the better side. In the match and throughout the season.

 

[MartBlade]

Any Blade who was at the Play off final knows that the BAR decision absolutely changed the match completely. As fans, we went from delirium and knowing we were up … to sickening disappointment and nerves. That change in emotion transferred to the pitch.
We were also incredibly unlucky to concede two goals when players were out of the game injured.
Sunderland have made the most of their luck but to suggest they were not lucky (and us unlucky) is completely re-writing history. I’ve spoken to Sunderland fans since and they have exactly the same view of the game.
Water under the bridge now but only Blades fans could turn that misfortune into a stick to beat the club/manager with.
Hopefully one day, the luck may be on our side

 

[Valley Blade]

Any Blade who was at the Play off final knows that the BAR decision absolutely changed the match completely. As fans, we went from delirium and knowing we were up … to sickening disappointment and nerves. That change in emotion transferred to the pitch.
We were also incredibly unlucky to concede two goals when players were out of the game injured.
Sunderland have made the most of their luck but to suggest they were not lucky (and us unlucky) is completely re-writing history. I’ve spoken to Sunderland fans since and they have exactly the same view of the game.
Water under the bridge now but only Blades fans could turn that misfortune into a stick to beat the club/manager with.
Hopefully one day, the luck may be on our side

A perfect summary.

 

[Frank the tank]

We’re not talking about life. We’re talking about a sporting competition with a codified ruleset played in a controlled environment.

Sunderland deserved to be promoted because they played well enough to get jnto the play off positions, managed their squad well and managed the final. We didn’t. So we didn’t get promoted. It wasn’t some larger cosmic injustice. We did what we always do under wilder, as soon as something went against us we completely folded and didn’t react.

Bet sitting next to you at the match is a rollercoaster of emotions

 

[Lens instep catch]

Sunderland were incredibly lucky. They were outplayed for a large percentage of the match. They benefited from fortune on the day. Just because you win doesn't make you deserving of it. That's football and life in general. Fair play to Sunderland for making the most of it but don't pretend that United weren't the better side. In the match and throughout the seasonThey were

Sunderland were incredibly lucky. They were outplayed for a large percentage of the match. They benefited from fortune on the day. Just because you win doesn't make you deserving of it. That's football and life in general. Fair play to Sunderland for making the most of it but don't pretend that United weren't the better side. In the match and throughout the season.

They were lucky to even get to the final Coventry were by far the better side in both legs of the semi final but once they got the promotion they took advantage of their good fortune and invested superbly so good luck to them

 

[Lens instep catch]

Potentially misremembering this, but I don't recall their fans being 'noisy as hell' prior to the goal being disallowed - especially as we had been so dominant in the game to that point.

I feel like 2-0 at that stage of the game would have killed any potential momentum they had.

When the goal was first scored I saw the fans behind the goal get up and head for the concourse the Sunderland players heads were on their chests and I thought this could be our day they all look dejected.The goal being ruled out gave them all a big lift and was a real downer for us it would have been better for us if Burrows had missed.

 

[Nick Jansky]

Sunderland were incredibly lucky. They were outplayed for a large percentage of the match. They benefited from fortune on the day. Just because you win doesn't make you deserving of it. That's football and life in general. Fair play to Sunderland for making the most of it but don't pretend that United weren't the better side. In the match and throughout the season.

There are large amounts of luck involved, good and bad. Without it, football would be a much duller game. Not nice being on the wrong end of it, but it is what it is. Sunderland did get the luck, but we were also tactically inept. It was a combination of the two.

 

[Lens instep catch]

There are large amounts of luck involved, good and bad. Without it, football would be a much duller game. Not nice being on the wrong end of it, but it is what it is. Sunderland did get the luck, but we were also tactically inept. It was a combination of the two.

Totally agree with the involvement of luck I have come away from many games thinking how have we managed to win that also many games have changed on a referee's decision if the goal stands I am sure that we win that game. I also think that we would now be gearing up once again for a tilt at the championship and West Ham would still be a premier league club every cloud has a silver lining.

 

[utd4ever]

It was standard Wilderball. Get a lead then sit back. Caught us out a few times in that season.

 

[adiosmiamigo]

Defensive coach I think?

Wasn't Phil Jones part of our youth system at 17, Mansfield born.

 

[Valley Blade]

There are large amounts of luck involved, good and bad. Without it, football would be a much duller game. Not nice being on the wrong end of it, but it is what it is. Sunderland did get the luck, but we were also tactically inept. It was a combination of the two.

I agree with all of that except for the tactics bit. Whilst I don't like the hanging on, seeing games out approach, it had been overwhelmingly successful throughout the season. I don't think the fitness of the players allowed for anything else. Most were tiring with 25/30 minutes to go regularly. To expect high press, men pouring forward, attacking football was simply beyond their physical capabilities. Hence, the defensive and mostly winning finishes to games,we often saw. You could argue for the players at our disposal it was the correct tactics.

 

[bibbity bobbity boo]

Wasn't Phil Jones part of our youth system at 17, Mansfield born.

He was born in Preston.

 

[Lens instep catch]

I agree with all of that except for the tactics bit. Whilst I don't like the hanging on, seeing games out approach, it had been overwhelmingly successful throughout the season. I don't think the fitness of the players allowed for anything else. Most were tiring with 25/30 minutes to go regularly. To expect high press, men pouring forward, attacking football was simply beyond their physical capabilities. Hence, the defensive and mostly winning finishes to games,we often saw. You could argue for the players at our disposal it was the correct tactics.

Spot on Valley Blade I also thought when Gus was substituted after he had run out of steam had a big impact on our play
Then there was the chance that Brookes had hopefully I will get it out of my system one day

 

[Valley Blade]

Spot on Valley Blade I also thought when Gus was substituted after he had run out of steam had a big impact on our play
Then there was the chance that Brookes had hopefully I will get it out of my system one day

Always next season mate! We live in hope and no matter what, its our team and we'll always support them. UTB

 

[Long Time Lurker]

Wasn't Phil Jones part of our youth system at 17, Mansfield born.

There was a Phil Jones in our youth system late 70s/early 80s Adios. Maybe he was Mansfield born.

 

[EddieColquhoun]

Phil Jones (footballer, born 1961) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[adiosmiamigo]

There was a Phil Jones in our youth system late 70s/early 80s Adios. Maybe he was Mansfield born.

According to Wikki he's the feller.

 

[DifferentClass]

Slap a confirmed on it.

 

[Bladesman]

 

[DifferentClass]

Don't see him pulling any of his trademark faces here