Ball Sup Blog... SUFC Academy - Analysis Wishlist

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Be gentle...
I write a Blog about football games I attend. (And Cricket, and Rugby, and Tennis!!!). Some of those games are SUFC Academy Games, U18 & U21 sides. Recently, a player Agent at a U21 game showed an interest in my Blog. I was quick to put him off ... "It's not a serious Blog mate, not serious."

When I developed a strapline for my Blog, it was

Irreverent, Irrelevant, Irresponsible

I do get accused of taking myself too seriously. And I'll accept that. But, that's not my intention.

Posters on here do occasionally ask me questions.
"What's happened to so & so..."
"How close is what's his name to the first team?"
"Has thingamajig got long term potential?"

But I'm rather hopeless at taking those on. I generally say - I know enough about football to tell you who played well today, and whether they've played consistently well over recent weeks, but I can't say anything about potential, that's not me. Occasionally, I will say I like a player a lot, but that will only mean - he makes me smile!!!

However, one of the Carrier Bag Firm keeps meticulous records of U18 and U21 games. Who played, who subbed, who scored, etc. Those sort of records. Not xG, not player ratings, not performance in those senses.

Recently, I have been dropping milestone statistics into Blogs. "That's the first U21 start for Riley McLachlan." "With that goal, Ogbene becomes the ninth oldest scorer for United in the PDL." Oooofffftttt. Those will continue.

And, getting to the point , we've been giving some thought to what other regular stats and analysis we might include in the Blog. Now, don't misunderstand. We have a healthy view on by how much people don't give a fuck about the Blog and any analysis of Academy sides. But we are going to start recording more stats and analysis for our own amusement. And I thought I'd lob out the grenade...

Is there any analysis of Academy sides people would like to see in that context, those circumstances?

Currently, we are majoring on - Age Cohort Analysis. To address issues around - "that looks a young side for the U21s Phil"

With a bit of thought towards - Churn. How many players have we used. I don't recognise many of those names. Has there been many changes from last week...

And, we're open to further suggestions. I currently hold the S24SU record for threads with no replies. Let's see how this goes....

 

[Bergen Blade]

"Distance covered". In metres, please.



I appreciate your blog, which I find well written and entertaining.

Are your "will it be streamed" posts a dig at fans who don't bother going to youth games?

Personally I'm disappointed with the club for their lack of streaming the past couple of seasons. I think it's a good idea for the club to allow fans to form some sort of connection with the young players coming through. If there is no such thing, they are just young players who suddenly pop up on senior team sheets, and we may as well sign them from elsewhere.

I also think it's good for the youngsters to know they are playing in front of a few thousand people, no disrespect to the handful of people being there. Surely this gives each game a bit more prestige, and adds to their motivation. It is also a better preparation for the exposure awaiting them, if they do make it to senior football in front of bigger crowds.


The club may argue they are now streaming women's matches. But the players involved there have no chance to get into the team which I have followed since 1991. Unlike you, (although you show far more assessing ability than you're admitting to) that is my main reason for watching youth matches. I enjoy assessing the current level of the academy, the team, as well as the players individually to see how they're developing and what it may take for them to become senior players.

Here's a photo proving that I have made the effort to see the youth team live, (even managed to include your son in it ):

 

[Uganda Blade]

Be gentle...
I write a Blog about football games I attend. (And Cricket, and Rugby, and Tennis!!!). Some of those games are SUFC Academy Games, U18 & U21 sides. Recently, a player Agent at a U21 game showed an interest in my Blog. I was quick to put him off ... "It's not a serious Blog mate, not serious."

When I developed a strapline for my Blog, it was

Irreverent, Irrelevant, Irresponsible

I do get accused of taking myself too seriously. And I'll accept that. But, that's not my intention.

Posters on here do occasionally ask me questions.
"What's happened to so & so..."
"How close is what's his name to the first team?"
"Has thingamajig got long term potential?"

But I'm rather hopeless at taking those on. I generally say - I know enough about football to tell you who played well today, and whether they've played consistently well over recent weeks, but I can't say anything about potential, that's not me. Occasionally, I will say I like a player a lot, but that will only mean - he makes me smile!!!

However, one of the Carrier Bag Firm keeps meticulous records of U18 and U21 games. Who played, who subbed, who scored, etc. Those sort of records. Not xG, not player ratings, not performance in those senses.

Recently, I have been dropping milestone statistics into Blogs. "That's the first U21 start for Riley McLachlan." "With that goal, Ogbene becomes the ninth oldest scorer for United in the PDL." Oooofffftttt. Those will continue.

And, getting to the point , we've been giving some thought to what other regular stats and analysis we might include in the Blog. Now, don't misunderstand. We have a healthy view on by how much people don't give a fuck about the Blog and any analysis of Academy sides. But we are going to start recording more stats and analysis for our own amusement. And I thought I'd lob out the grenade...

Is there any analysis of Academy sides people would like to see in that context, those circumstances?

Currently, we are majoring on - Age Cohort Analysis. To address issues around - "that looks a young side for the U21s Phil"

With a bit of thought towards - Churn. How many players have we used. I don't recognise many of those names. Has there been many changes from last week...

And, we're open to further suggestions. I currently hold the S24SU record for threads with no replies. Let's see how this goes....

Would it be too much work to maintain a table of appearances, goals, assists etc? (Or is that available elsewhere?)

Also, not exactly a stat, but I'd be interested to know if agents or scouts are there, who are they watching and on behalf of whom?

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

"Distance covered". In metres, please.



I appreciate your blog, which I find well written and entertaining.

Are your "will it be streamed" posts a dig at fans who don't bother going to youth games?

Personally I'm disappointed with the club for their lack of streaming the past couple of seasons. I think it's a good idea for the club to allow fans to form some sort of connection with the young players coming through. If there is no such thing, they are just young players who suddenly pop up on senior team sheets, and we may as well sign them from elsewhere.

I also think it's good for the youngsters to know they are playing in front of a few thousand people, no disrespect to the handful of people being there. Surely this gives each game a bit more prestige, and adds to their motivation. It is also a better preparation for the exposure awaiting them, if they do make it to senior football in front of bigger crowds.


The club may argue they are now streaming women's matches. But the players involved there have no chance to get into the team which I have followed since 1991. Unlike you, (although you show far more assessing ability than you're admitting to) that is my main reason for watching youth matches. I enjoy assessing the current level of the academy, the team, as well as the players individually to see how they're developing and what it may take for them to become senior players.

Here's a photo proving that I have made the effort to see the youth team live, (even managed to include your son in it ):

View attachment 233785

Thanks Bergen Blade
No. No. No. My "hilarious" - will it be streamed? posts are NOT a dig at fans who don't go to Academy games. The CBF have many lived experiences, through which we have, and then haven't, and then have been able to attend games in person. I am fully aware that "most" people would not be able to attend games. And I try to be sensitive to that. It is NOT a dig.

I do publicise upcoming games on this forum. In case people find themselves in the right place at the right time to attend. Back in the day, the first post on such a thread would invariably be (a variant of) - will it be streamed?

So I thought I'd "hilariously" cut out the middle man. Fair Warning - I'm not going to stop doing that anytime soon

On balance, I too wish United would stream more/any Academy games. I suspect at bottom it's - can't be bothered. Rather than quasi logical reasons people get given if/when they enquire.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Would it be too much work to maintain a table of appearances, goals, assists etc? (Or is that available elsewhere?)

Also, not exactly a stat, but I'd be interested to know if agents or scouts are there, who are they watching and on behalf of whom?

Thanks Uganda Blade

In our haste to go down a fucking wormhole to sort age profile, we're in danger of missing simpler, and informative, information like appearances and goals. We'll play that more into our thinking.

May I ask - were you more thinking of "appearances this season", which makes a lot of sense for ages cohort teams. Rather than lifetime appearances across seasons. (I bet he's going to say BOTH, nailed on). Anyway?

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

That thing about scouts & agents is NEVER going to happen. United are constantly changing the arrangements for scouts and agents, which gate they're allowed in, where they're allowed to stand, areas are roped off, areas are coned off, stewards - "scouts only". I occasionally speak to scouts who "secretly" stand with fans, rather than designated area.

One of the CBF is a recruitment scout - but FOR United, to bring players in. If I speak to a scout, agent, or player, I will invariably treat that as private. Although I may tell "an anonymised story" .

 

[Uganda Blade]

Thanks Uganda Blade

In our haste to go down a fucking wormhole to sort age profile, we're in danger of missing simpler, and informative, information like appearances and goals. We'll play that more into our thinking.

May I ask - were you more thinking of "appearances this season", which makes a lot of sense for ages cohort teams. Rather than lifetime appearances across seasons. (I bet he's going to say BOTH, nailed on). Anyway?

You've lost your bet — I was thinking of appearances this season (presumably starting next season).
Though, thinking on, if you kept it up for more than one season, it would de facto become lifetime eventually, n'est-ce pas?

 

[de g.]

Be gentle...
I write a Blog about football games I attend. (And Cricket, and Rugby, and Tennis!!!). Some of those games are SUFC Academy Games, U18 & U21 sides. Recently, a player Agent at a U21 game showed an interest in my Blog. I was quick to put him off ... "It's not a serious Blog mate, not serious."

When I developed a strapline for my Blog, it was

Irreverent, Irrelevant, Irresponsible

I do get accused of taking myself too seriously. And I'll accept that. But, that's not my intention.

Posters on here do occasionally ask me questions.
"What's happened to so & so..."
"How close is what's his name to the first team?"
"Has thingamajig got long term potential?"

But I'm rather hopeless at taking those on. I generally say - I know enough about football to tell you who played well today, and whether they've played consistently well over recent weeks, but I can't say anything about potential, that's not me. Occasionally, I will say I like a player a lot, but that will only mean - he makes me smile!!!

However, one of the Carrier Bag Firm keeps meticulous records of U18 and U21 games. Who played, who subbed, who scored, etc. Those sort of records. Not xG, not player ratings, not performance in those senses.

Recently, I have been dropping milestone statistics into Blogs. "That's the first U21 start for Riley McLachlan." "With that goal, Ogbene becomes the ninth oldest scorer for United in the PDL." Oooofffftttt. Those will continue.

And, getting to the point , we've been giving some thought to what other regular stats and analysis we might include in the Blog. Now, don't misunderstand. We have a healthy view on by how much people don't give a fuck about the Blog and any analysis of Academy sides. But we are going to start recording more stats and analysis for our own amusement. And I thought I'd lob out the grenade...

Is there any analysis of Academy sides people would like to see in that context, those circumstances?

Currently, we are majoring on - Age Cohort Analysis. To address issues around - "that looks a young side for the U21s Phil"

With a bit of thought towards - Churn. How many players have we used. I don't recognise many of those names. Has there been many changes from last week...

And, we're open to further suggestions. I currently hold the S24SU record for threads with no replies. Let's see how this goes....

Football - all about opinions, right? As someone who can't practically watch PDL games (job, commute, life etc), it's the subjective stuff more than anything else which I value.

So.

I wouldn't necessarily want to see you change much in approach, really. I certainly wouldn't want you to start feeling obliged to try and give more nuanced views aimed at a particular audience, since that would take away from what makes your perspective unique. On the other hand, what would be interesting if you've the inclination to do it is a brief profile on each player - your gut feel about them, what you've seen them do well, any memorable matches/incidents/anecdotes etc. I'm not sure how easily Substack allows you to create a reference section, but the sort of thing that was fairly straightforward on Wordpress.

 

[JT89]

Could you maybe track something like how long they’ve been at the club? And where they played before if known?

That could maybe give an idea of the progress of players who have been at the club since a young age vs those who join an academy slightly older vs those signed after being released from a cat 1 academy etc

Of course that may all be subjective or based on opinions of how someone has progressed but could be interesting to see if there’s a trend over time

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Apologies for the Double Posting. But some stats & analysis is beginning to creep in.

Have You Got That As A Pie Chart?

Sheffield United U21 2 v Bournemouth U21 3

open.substack.com

 

[Ned the Donkey]

It seems like it's extremely difficult to judge who's going to "make it". Are there any stats with reasonable predictive value of who is likely to "make it".

And if you can define "making it" that would be a great help.

Also, Goodhart is watching.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Could you maybe track something like how long they’ve been at the club? And where they played before if known?

That could maybe give an idea of the progress of players who have been at the club since a young age vs those who join an academy slightly older vs those signed after being released from a cat 1 academy etc

Of course that may all be subjective or based on opinions of how someone has progressed but could be interesting to see if there’s a trend over time

The CBF have had a discussion about that. We feel a full analysis (by us) of "source of player" would be difficult.
In the past, I've mentioned something like - so and so has been with us since he was a boy.

And posters have come at me with the likes of - I know the family, and so and so played three matches for Stockport County U10s before he came to Shirecliffe, I'm surprised you don't know that Phil...

Often, the first time we are aware of a player is when he is named on the U18 bench. To us, he's appeared from nowhere. We don't have the data, nor inclination to try and find details of much younger players.

However, we would be able to mark where players are clearly listed as having been in another Academy - like Siem Eyob-Abraha at Manchester United. We're continuing to think what we can (incompletely) do with readily available information.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Football - all about opinions, right? As someone who can't practically watch PDL games (job, commute, life etc), it's the subjective stuff more than anything else which I value.

So.

I wouldn't necessarily want to see you change much in approach, really. I certainly wouldn't want you to start feeling obliged to try and give more nuanced views aimed at a particular audience, since that would take away from what makes your perspective unique. On the other hand, what would be interesting if you've the inclination to do it is a brief profile on each player - your gut feel about them, what you've seen them do well, any memorable matches/incidents/anecdotes etc. I'm not sure how easily Substack allows you to create a reference section, but the sort of thing that was fairly straightforward on Wordpress.

I do like including "pen pictures" for particular players as you describe. But, I don't do it with any "discipline". That is sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. And it tends to be "my favourites". I'm looking at you Louie Marsh.

I think I could do better very simply - by always and routinely including a profile pen picture, and shaking it up a bit so that a different player gets pen pictured every Blog.

I'll have a think about how to collate and reference.