First red card...

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Neither of the instances were red cards.
Soumare let himself down with a poor touch and was quick to react to it and played a pass across to McCallum. Their player tried to intercept the ball and it was simply a freak accident, created by both of their momentum, moving across each other.
Soumare had to land his foot somewhere and unfortunately for their player, his movement placed him in the way of Soumare's foot as it landed. Soumare didnt lunge, wasnt out of control and wasnt reckless.
The referee reacted to the injured player's understandable reaction to what appeared to be a bad injury.
Not even a foul in my opinion.

Tanganga's was a foul. There is no debate on that one. He has mistimed his jump to get to the ball. However did anyone notice the push/nudge by their attacker, just at the point of Tanganga jumping? This, in my opinion has caused him to be slightly off balance, but doesnt explain him moving his arms across, again in my opinion, to try and make contact with the ball.
A foul? Yes.
Yellow card? Yes
red card? Not in a million years!!!!
As some have pointed out, there may have been an element of the referee flexing his authority for Tanganga having the audacity to challenge the first red card decision.

These 2 terrible decisions ruined the game as a contest, although Charlton struggled to get more than the 1 goal they did score and didnt really have the pressure you would expect a team to have with a 2 player (and a refeere) advantage.

11 v 11 and we comfortably win that game by 2/3 goals. We had a few opportunities with 9 men!

Lets hope Wilder and the players use this as a catalyst to go and get some positive results in the next few games.
 
Can't decide if the Dalot tackle for Man Utd was same or worse than Soumare's. Dalots studs hit below knee and VAR didn't upgrade to a red after review.

Referee is and always has been a complete minge and I'm still seething at the other ridiculous decisions.
 
Blades Glory Owls Down said:
Neither of the instances were red cards.
Soumare let himself down with a poor touch and was quick to react to it and played a pass across to McCallum. Their player tried to intercept the ball and it was simply a freak accident, created by both of their momentum, moving across each other.
Soumare had to land his foot somewhere and unfortunately for their player, his movement placed him in the way of Soumare's foot as it landed. Soumare didnt lunge, wasnt out of control and wasnt reckless.
The referee reacted to the injured player's understandable reaction to what appeared to be a bad injury.
Not even a foul in my opinion.

Tanganga's was a foul. There is no debate on that one. He has mistimed his jump to get to the ball. However did anyone notice the push/nudge by their attacker, just at the point of Tanganga jumping? This, in my opinion has caused him to be slightly off balance, but doesnt explain him moving his arms across, again in my opinion, to try and make contact with the ball.
A foul? Yes.
Yellow card? Yes
red card? Not in a million years!!!!
As some have pointed out, there may have been an element of the referee flexing his authority for Tanganga having the audacity to challenge the first red card decision.

These 2 terrible decisions ruined the game as a contest, although Charlton struggled to get more than the 1 goal they did score and didnt really have the pressure you would expect a team to have with a 2 player (and a refeere) advantage.

11 v 11 and we comfortably win that game by 2/3 goals. We had a few opportunities with 9 men!

Lets hope Wilder and the players use this as a catalyst to go and get some positive results in the next few games.
Click to expand...
Great post, the best and most accurate description of the bizarre events that took place yesterday.
 
Somares challenge is clumsy , there’s no intent there to injure their player & people saying it’s a red because of the injury received is just total bollocks . Heard Wilders interview after where he said the ref had said ony the captains could approach to talk to him on any disagreements , he seemed to be very irked by this when Tanganga did for the first red & couldn’t wait to brandish the red on Tanganga challenge without even consulting the linesman .
Prior to the first red one of their players leaves a foot in on McCallum with no reprisal … absolutely fkg shocking ref …Reminded me of Clive Thomas for the older members on here where the refs my way or the highway & I’m gonna be the star of the show .
 
Blades Glory Owls Down said:
Neither of the instances were red cards.
Soumare let himself down with a poor touch and was quick to react to it and played a pass across to McCallum. Their player tried to intercept the ball and it was simply a freak accident, created by both of their momentum, moving across each other.
Soumare had to land his foot somewhere and unfortunately for their player, his movement placed him in the way of Soumare's foot as it landed. Soumare didnt lunge, wasnt out of control and wasnt reckless.
The referee reacted to the injured player's understandable reaction to what appeared to be a bad injury.
Not even a foul in my opinion.

Tanganga's was a foul. There is no debate on that one. He has mistimed his jump to get to the ball. However did anyone notice the push/nudge by their attacker, just at the point of Tanganga jumping? This, in my opinion has caused him to be slightly off balance, but doesnt explain him moving his arms across, again in my opinion, to try and make contact with the ball.
A foul? Yes.
Yellow card? Yes
red card? Not in a million years!!!!
As some have pointed out, there may have been an element of the referee flexing his authority for Tanganga having the audacity to challenge the first red card decision.

These 2 terrible decisions ruined the game as a contest, although Charlton struggled to get more than the 1 goal they did score and didnt really have the pressure you would expect a team to have with a 2 player (and a refeere) advantage.

11 v 11 and we comfortably win that game by 2/3 goals. We had a few opportunities with 9 men!

Lets hope Wilder and the players use this as a catalyst to go and get some positive results in the next few games.
Click to expand...

I was at Sheffield FC yesterday and there were at least 4 or 5 tackles worse than both Soumare and Tanganga’s reds that didn’t get a card.

On the sky sports app Soumare’s was described as a “horror tackle”. I had to rewind the video several times for what I was supposed to be looking at.

As others have said it seems very harsh. I can see why the ref has given it but he’s just late to a 50/50 that you have to go for. Not out of control or malicious just an accident.

Tanganga’s was absolutely pathetic but should maybe have thought twice about giving that ref a decision to make.

You always get games and refs like that over the course of the season, it’s just unfortunate that our awful start has meant we can’t afford any freak games now.
 
To me, both looked like red cards by the modern laws. I don’t like that interpretation, but it is what it is.

Wilder is right to talk about the penalty on Bamford and the challenge on McCallum though. It’s the inconsistency from refs that absolutely stinks.
 
I don’t know how he could have stopped himself doing it in all honesty. It’s his first touch that caused the tackle but it really wasn’t a bad tackle, he won the ball initially and then his impact landed on the player.

I hope their lad is ok because it looked nasty, but he definitely didn’t mean to do it
 
Geordie Blade said:
To me, both looked like red cards by the modern laws. I don’t like that interpretation, but it is what it is.

Wilder is right to talk about the penalty on Bamford and the challenge on McCallum though. It’s the inconsistency from refs that absolutely stinks.
Click to expand...

Is their footage of either of these as all the highlights I’ve seen (sky and itv) don’t include them.
 
Melbourne Blade said:
Can't decide if the Dalot tackle for Man Utd was same or worse than Soumare's. Dalots studs hit below knee and VAR didn't upgrade to a red after review.

Referee is and always has been a complete minge and I'm still seething at the other ridiculous decisions.
Click to expand...
Dalot's seemed far worse, but it's a big event Manc derby so no fear of a red spoiling the contest from Stockley Park.
 
SE1Blade said:
Is their footage of either of these as all the highlights I’ve seen (sky and itv) don’t include them.
Click to expand...

The Bamford one is definitely on Sky’s highlights (the version on TV - Sky Football). It’s a very clear push in the back, as he’s about to shoot.
 
Melbourne Blade said:
Can't decide if the Dalot tackle for Man Utd was same or worse than Soumare's. Dalots studs hit below knee and VAR didn't upgrade to a red after review.
Click to expand...
Interesting debate that. Soumare’s was with more force, lower but definitely injured the lad. Dalot’s was less force but much higher. The City lad’s knee bent back so could have caused ligament damage meaning there was potential for injury rather than actual. For me they were both reds but clearly VAR being involved makes the Dalot more mystifying to me. This is the sort of inconsistency that drives us all mad.
For what it’s worth I don’t think Tanganga’s gets overturned either.
 
Blades Glory Owls Down said:
Neither of the instances were red cards.
Soumare let himself down with a poor touch and was quick to react to it and played a pass across to McCallum. Their player tried to intercept the ball and it was simply a freak accident, created by both of their momentum, moving across each other.
Soumare had to land his foot somewhere and unfortunately for their player, his movement placed him in the way of Soumare's foot as it landed. Soumare didnt lunge, wasnt out of control and wasnt reckless.
The referee reacted to the injured player's understandable reaction to what appeared to be a bad injury.
Not even a foul in my opinion.

Tanganga's was a foul. There is no debate on that one. He has mistimed his jump to get to the ball. However did anyone notice the push/nudge by their attacker, just at the point of Tanganga jumping? This, in my opinion has caused him to be slightly off balance, but doesnt explain him moving his arms across, again in my opinion, to try and make contact with the ball.
A foul? Yes.
Yellow card? Yes
red card? Not in a million years!!!!
As some have pointed out, there may have been an element of the referee flexing his authority for Tanganga having the audacity to challenge the first red card decision.

These 2 terrible decisions ruined the game as a contest, although Charlton struggled to get more than the 1 goal they did score and didnt really have the pressure you would expect a team to have with a 2 player (and a refeere) advantage.

11 v 11 and we comfortably win that game by 2/3 goals. We had a few opportunities with 9 men!

Lets hope Wilder and the players use this as a catalyst to go and get some positive results in the next few games.
Click to expand...

Without going into the ref's decision, I think these images shows what Soumare tried to do, which is exactly like you described. Trying to correct his mistake, he does get to the ball (a split second before Knibbs) and succeeds in playing it into the path of McCallum.

But in doing so, unfortunately, he lands on Knibbs' foot which also gets stuck in the ground, meaning there is nothing to cushion the force..


Soumare3.webpSoumare4.webpSoumare2.webp


Soumare5.webp
 



When Soumare first arrived at the club he seemed to be a bit over physical with some of his challenges and he was taken out of the side for a few games.

When he came back he'd obviously worked on this and also started to become much more aware of his positional role in the centre.

I believe he is a real talent and we should look to sign him when his loan expires.

He was so unlucky with the shot as well as it was a certain goal till it took a slight deflection that meant it hit the post.

He'll come back better and stronger after his undeserved ban.
 
Chimpan-A said:
I don’t think we can argue much with either - Tanganga was on a yellow anyway for daring to talk to the ref, and I reckon the challenge was probably a yellow in its own right.

Danny Hall on co comms is very annoying, laying into Soumare. He obviously doesn’t like him. Sometimes a red card is right and just one of those things.
Click to expand...
Doesn’t like Soumare because Wilder didn’t sign him. Still goes out of his way to make snarky comments about anything that the board / Selles did. They recognised it was a mistake & brought Wilder back, he needs to move on.
 
Bergen Blade said:
Without going into the ref's decision, I think these images shows what Soumare tried to do, which is exactly like you described. Trying to correct his mistake, he does get to the ball (a split second before Knibbs) and succeeds in playing it into the path of McCallum.

But in doing so, unfortunately, he lands on Knibbs' foot which also gets stuck in the ground, meaning there is nothing to cushion the force..


View attachment 229242View attachment 229243View attachment 229244


View attachment 229245
Click to expand...
Exactly look at that, plays the ball clearly and by the time he does the opponent has moved his foot to where soumare has to put his down, its not even a foul imo. The challenge from their lad on mcallum was 10 times more reckless and malicious
 
This is why Tanganga was so pissed off, he sees a totally reckless malicious challenge by Charlton on mcallum go totally unpunished, then a completely non malicious unavoidable collision by Soumare and the ref can't wait to send him straight off.
 
Regardless of the rights and wrongs of the red card, best wishes to Harvey Knibbs.
Charlton has described it as 'not good' pending outcome of x -rays and scans.
The sending off and ban will pass soon enough, let's hope the injured player is back fit soon.
 
Mojo said:
Exactly look at that, plays the ball clearly and by the time he does the opponent has moved his foot to where soumare has to put his down, its not even a foul imo. The challenge from their lad on mcallum was 10 times more reckless and malicious
Click to expand...

Not even a foul?

Good Lord.
 
PeterNdlovu081 said:
Not even a foul?

Good Lord.
Click to expand...
So basically soumares only option to avoid being sent off is to not go for the ball?

Once he has played the ball where is he supposed to put his foot? How can he possibly avoid what happened. Collisions happen in football it's unavoidable.
 
Mojo said:
So basically soumares only option is to not go for the ball?

Once he has played the ball where is he supposed to put his foot?
Click to expand...

Irrelevant.

Intention has zero bearing on whether something is a foul or not.

If an opposition player put in a challenge like that on us in the next game would you be happy for play to be waved on and no foul given?

Not a chance.
 
Bergen Blade said:
Without going into the ref's decision, I think these images shows what Soumare tried to do, which is exactly like you described. Trying to correct his mistake, he does get to the ball (a split second before Knibbs) and succeeds in playing it into the path of McCallum.

But in doing so, unfortunately, he lands on Knibbs' foot which also gets stuck in the ground, meaning there is nothing to cushion the force..


View attachment 229242View attachment 229243View attachment 229244


View attachment 229245
Click to expand...
I don’t even think it’s a foul to be honest.

The Charlton player doesn’t have possession of the ball. If he did it could be a different story but it’s a 50/50 ball, it’s not over the top of the ball and hes not “out of control”….just nipped the ball away first.

It’s unfortunate, that’s all. Two players committed in the same challenge.
 
What I meant by "it wasn't even a foul" was that there was zero intent and it was pretty much unavoidable once he decided to go for the ball.

However I do agree you have to give a foul for it but due to the reasons I described earlier a yellow would have been fair.
 
Mojo said:
What I meant by "it wasn't even a foul" was that there was zero intent and it was pretty much unavoidable once he decided to go for the ball.
Click to expand...

I think there was zero intent as well.

It's still a red card.

Referees have to judge incidents on what actually happened, not what the player's intentions were.
 
Blades Glory Owls Down said:
Neither of the instances were red cards.
Soumare let himself down with a poor touch and was quick to react to it and played a pass across to McCallum. Their player tried to intercept the ball and it was simply a freak accident, created by both of their momentum, moving across each other.
Soumare had to land his foot somewhere and unfortunately for their player, his movement placed him in the way of Soumare's foot as it landed. Soumare didnt lunge, wasnt out of control and wasnt reckless.
The referee reacted to the injured player's understandable reaction to what appeared to be a bad injury.
Not even a foul in my opinion.

Tanganga's was a foul. There is no debate on that one. He has mistimed his jump to get to the ball. However did anyone notice the push/nudge by their attacker, just at the point of Tanganga jumping? This, in my opinion has caused him to be slightly off balance, but doesnt explain him moving his arms across, again in my opinion, to try and make contact with the ball.
A foul? Yes.
Yellow card? Yes
red card? Not in a million years!!!!
As some have pointed out, there may have been an element of the referee flexing his authority for Tanganga having the audacity to challenge the first red card decision.

These 2 terrible decisions ruined the game as a contest, although Charlton struggled to get more than the 1 goal they did score and didnt really have the pressure you would expect a team to have with a 2 player (and a refeere) advantage.

11 v 11 and we comfortably win that game by 2/3 goals. We had a few opportunities with 9 men!

Lets hope Wilder and the players use this as a catalyst to go and get some positive results in the next few games.
Click to expand...
Perfect analysis of the Soumare incident imo. I don't believe he'd have seen red if that was just a loose ball that both committed to.
The fact that the ball was loose due to Soumare's poor control I think led the ref (and some posters on here) to think he'd lunged. He didn't lunge and wasn't reckless. Exactly as you've said.
You can tell that the ref assumed a lunge as he didn't even give himself a split second to analyse. Red card was reached for within a second of the collision. (Either that or the ref was a biased incompetent prick)
 



Melbourne Blade said:
Can't decide if the Dalot tackle for Man Utd was same or worse than Soumare's. Dalots studs hit below knee and VAR didn't upgrade to a red after review.

Referee is and always has been a complete minge and I'm still seething at the other ridiculous decisions.
Click to expand...
no different imo just shows the inconsistency of refs mind var was used with dalot's straight red all day long
 
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