Outgoing? Chris Wilder

[chesblade]

He also said the players we brought in via A i don't seem to be very appealing either

 

[HOT CURRIE 10]

They was pretty interesting
Sounded like the owners were looking at replacing him before the play off final

As far as we were told a week last Sunday,he was gone. That came from a very in the know person who worked at the club and a mate of Wilder. Make of that what you think but the leak was very credible.

 

[HeySethUTB]

Why is it when other clubs do stuff some people bang on about it, and whatever we do make out it's shit?
For ages people have been saying "Look at Brentford, big team of analysts using latest tech to identify young talent, and run at a profit, why don't we do that?"
Then when we do it it's " Just using AI to pick new players and ignore the manager, load of bollocks"

Why??

It’s a lack of understanding what AI does. Its therefore easier to just think “wilder is being told what to do by a robot” rather than, research the actual role of AI in scouting and player development, or that wilder is giving the robot specific criteria for players, and then not having to lock someone in a room looking at opta and flying to random locations to watch players.

The use of AI is effectively a way of copying Brentford’s model of data analysts without the huge teams of people. AI removes human error whilst analysing data, but it is also much much quicker at identifying traits and patterns, there is also potential for it to be used to predict injury, something that would take teams of people to do. All the above reduces cost and human bias/error on the whole.

AI can also be used to look at video footage detecting biometric patterns and anomalies in player behaviour and performance, helping scouts evaluate consistency, decision-making, by assessing hundreds of hours of footage and statistics. Essentially something that would take years to accomplish can be done almost immediately on multiple players giving us an edge over our competitors.

What you after factor in is the AI system needs to be engineered via prompts I.e baseline stats so a player profile can be generated for example - Central defender, above 195cm, with x speed, x progressive passes per 90, x interceptions, muscle mass is, etc, you could go on for ages and literally never stop. The AI system would analyse the data prompts and provide the user with a detailed summary of players that fit the profile.

As for wilder, he’s either acting like a petulant dinosaur and not providing any kind of assistance in order to create profiles outside of “British and loves a challenge” or he’s not enjoying the fact something that isn’t bias to “his type” is doing the scouting, because it’s spitting out players from weird and wonderful places. AI when used properly is a tool that would certainly give us the edge over other teams in this division while potentially driving down wage costs in the longer term. The problem is if you’re not all in and use it lazily you end up with some right shite.

People didn’t trust the internet until they learned and started to use it. I mean one of our owners has used AI to detect cancer before its onset, he’ll know hundreds of top AI experts to draw upon, it’s not like he’s using filters on Football manager.

 

[mattbianco1]

I can see both sides to this.

Can't knock the points total he achieved last season, and he rebuilt the squad very well with some good cheap signings to compliment the players that stayed - Hamer, Anel, Souza etc. This is where Wilder excels - picking up lower league gems (Burrows, Cooper and before that Stevens, Duffy, Fleck, JOC etc.)
However... he tried this model in the PL too and that doesn't work IMO. It's ok chucking in 1 or 2 unproven talents from the lower leagues, but 80% of the team need to be better than that.

We stayed up in 2020 with this model - Robinson, Freeman etc. then the big signings came in January and the summer after - Ramsdale, Berge, Brewster etc. and Wilder seemed to not be able to get any kind of tune out of them.
This gave birth to the theory in amongst Blades fans that "Wilder can't be trusted with money".

This new AI driven model is where the game is heading - data driven signings. Brentford have done this for years. How many random unknowns do Brighton sign and then sell them on for millions?
Wilder won't like this. He's old school, he wants to be in charge, he wants to go and watch the targets personally.

I think the new owners are seeking a "Head Coach", whereas Wilder is a "Manager".

I do feel that Wilder will get us promoted next season though. I just don't feel he can sustain us as a top flight club.

 

[TJ blade]

Probably deduct the half a million in player fines from his settlement as well

With just enough money left, for him to buy a crate of peroni

 

[Berkshire Blade]

It’s obvious the AI will play into development more than first team, we may have an amazing Cat I academy in a couple years with a couple of feeder clubs brought in. Similar to Brentford and Brighton.

I think all that should be the aim long term. I think changing tracks at this stage could potentially delay us getting into the premier league asap though which in every type of way is more beneficial

 

[Champagneblade]

The media narrative appears to be that it’s Wilder’s traditional scouting methods with data playing a role vs the new owners’ methods in which data and AI plays a much larger role. This extends to AI and data being used much more for player identification over existing scouting methods for spotting players. I said separately that I think the owners should be a bit more open about this approach otherwise you lose the narrative to the likes of Alan Biggs and Alan Nixon. And it’s why you have people suggesting this is all about an approach entirely driven by AI.

Regardless, use or not of data and AI is likely ultimately not the deciding factor here rather the role that Wilder plays in transfers and the owners assessment of the job he’s done to date.

It’s a bit simple the view about AI. It might help unearth players but I doubt they won’t be scouted or reviewed by coaches and scouts.

It’s not like we’ve gone all-in on Champ Manager and expect Kennedy Bakircioglu to turn up unannounced on the first day of training

We’ve got to evolve as a club. Chris must see this. He’s a big fan of Thomas Frank. Let’s not pretend he’s going and finding all the Brentford players as we know that simply isn’t true.

I don’t want a change as I prefer continuity. But you have to identify what help looks like. Sometimes it’s just help. It doesn’t have to be taken as interference.

 

[Bladeloyal]

It’s a lack of understanding what AI does. Its therefore easier to just think “wilder is being told what to do by a robot” rather than, research the actual role of AI in scouting and player development, or that wilder is giving the robot specific criteria for players, and then not having to lock someone in a room looking at opta and flying to random locations to watch players.

The use of AI is effectively a way of copying Brentford’s model of data analysts without the huge teams of people. AI removes human error whilst analysing data, but it is also much much quicker at identifying traits and patterns, there is also potential for it to be used to predict injury, something that would take teams of people to do. All the above reduces cost and human bias/error on the whole.

AI can also be used to look at video footage detecting biometric patterns and anomalies in player behaviour and performance, helping scouts evaluate consistency, decision-making, by assessing hundreds of hours of footage and statistics. Essentially something that would take years to accomplish can be done almost immediately on multiple players giving us an edge over our competitors.

What you after factor in is the AI system needs to be engineered via prompts I.e baseline stats so a player profile can be generated for example - Central defender, above 195cm, with x speed, x progressive passes per 90, x interceptions, muscle mass is, etc, you could go on for ages and literally never stop. The AI system would analyse the data prompts and provide the user with a detailed summary of players that fit the profile.

As for wilder, he’s either acting like a petulant dinosaur and not providing any kind of assistance in order to create profiles outside of “British and loves a challenge” or he’s not enjoying the fact something that isn’t bias to “his type” is doing the scouting, because it’s spitting out players from weird and wonderful places. AI when used properly is a tool that would certainly give us the edge over other teams in this division while potentially driving down wage costs in the longer term. The problem is if you’re not all in and use it lazily you end up with some right shite.

People didn’t trust the internet until they learned and started to use it. I mean one of our owners has used AI to detect cancer before its onset, he’ll know hundreds of top AI experts to draw upon, it’s not like he’s using filters on Football manager.

The cancer tests have come from years and years of research by bio chemists not Ai

 

[Booker4]

Why don't get get an AI manager in

I can see both sides to this.

Can't knock the points total he achieved last season, and he rebuilt the squad very well with some good cheap signings to compliment the players that stayed - Hamer, Anel, Souza etc. This is where Wilder excels - picking up lower league gems (Burrows, Cooper and before that Stevens, Duffy, Fleck, JOC etc.)
However... he tried this model in the PL too and that doesn't work IMO. It's ok chucking in 1 or 2 unproven talents from the lower leagues, but 80% of the team need to be better than that.

We stayed up in 2020 with this model - Robinson, Freeman etc. then the big signings came in January and the summer after - Ramsdale, Berge, Brewster etc. and Wilder seemed to not be able to get any kind of tune out of them.
This gave birth to the theory in amongst Blades fans that "Wilder can't be trusted with money".

This new AI driven model is where the game is heading - data driven signings. Brentford have done this for years. How many random unknowns do Brighton sign and then sell them on for millions?
Wilder won't like this. He's old school, he wants to be in charge, he wants to go and watch the targets personally.

I think the new owners are seeking a "Head Coach", whereas Wilder is a "Manager".

I do feel that Wilder will get us promoted next season though. I just don't feel he can sustain us as a top flight club.

I can't speak for all the Brighton players who they've sold for millions over the years but I looked at their present squad which contains several players from lesser markets like Paraguay and the transfer fees involved were still into the many millions, in some cases over £10m. I'm not convinced that the signings we have done with AI are anywhere near their level or ever will be. Of course as a club we're not at Brighton's level neither but will these signings ever be good enough for the top flight? I have my doubts to say the least.

It seems we're repeating similar signings to Slimane, Larouchi and Traore but at development level.

I'd much rather sign youngsters from other clubs academies, from Scotland/Ireland, non league, from abroad for very small fees like Osula, Peck, David Brooks and One for example.

 

[Bladeloyal]

We've only 1 slot left for a random development buy from over seas so I wouldn't worry about recruitment

 

[Rodley]

4 more years!
4 more years!

Should re-badge himself as Hristo Wildov.

 

[LondonBlade89]

It’s a bit simple the view about AI. It might help unearth players but I doubt they won’t be scouted or reviewed by coaches and scouts.

It’s not like we’ve gone all-in on Champ Manager and expect Kennedy Bakircioglu to turn up unannounced on the first day of training

We’ve got to evolve as a club. Chris must see this. He’s a big fan of Thomas Frank. Let’s not pretend he’s going and finding all the Brentford players as we know that simply isn’t true.

I don’t want a change as I prefer continuity. But you have to identify what help looks like. Sometimes it’s just help. It doesn’t have to be taken as interference.

I owe a lot to Hugo Pinheiro, Mark Kerr and old Kennedy.

 

[Shadota]

I do feel that Wilder will get us promoted next season though. I just don't feel he can sustain us as a top flight club.

This seemingly being a commonly-held opinion, is probably a major driver as to why there is any discussion happening over Wilder's future now. When the takeover happened, and on occasions since, the new owners have made quite the song and dance, around their ultimate goal being a sustained presence in the Premier League.

I suspect that there might be concerns at board level around Wilder's ability to make that goal a reality. So there apparently are some who doubt whether we should continue with him.

I think this is wholly reasonable. It would be a much easier task for a hypothetical new manager to come in at Championship level, assemble a team and tactics, and attempt to carry that into the Premier League, than allowing Wilder to take us up, potentially flop, and then have to find a new manager to pick up the pieces.

 

[NerdyBlade]

He also said the players we brought in via A i don't seem to be very appealing either

Appealing to who?

 

[Champagneblade]

This seemingly being a commonly-held opinion, is probably a major driver as to why there is any discussion happening over Wilder's future now. When the takeover happened, and on occasions since, the new owners have made quite the song and dance, around their ultimate goal being a sustained presence in the Premier League.

I suspect that there might be concerns at board level around Wilder's ability to make that goal a reality. So there apparently are some who doubt whether we should continue with him.

I think this is wholly reasonable. It would be a much easier task for a hypothetical new manager to come in at Championship level, assemble a team and tactics, and attempt to carry that into the Premier League, than allowing Wilder to take us up, potentially flop, and then have to find a new manager to pick up the pieces.

There is an element here of looking to run before you can walk. The bloke who sustains you at Prem level might not have the skills to be the bloke to get you out of the Championship. Daft as that may sound.

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

This narrative that AI is going to sign all the players with no input from the manager is immediately rubbished when you look at the January transfer window. We signed 2 players who had been with Wilder previously and 1 who he was after before the new owners came in.

The AI thing is a total red herring. The board will have their own ideas but we have evidence that the manager will get a huge say in who we sign. If the owners are concerned with Wilder regarding transfers it will be because January was a huge failure when we brought in players he wanted. They may also look at the last 5 windows he's overseen with us and Boro and conclude it's been poor.

There's many reasons why we should keep Wilder. There's also obvious question marks about his recent recruitment

The AI recruitment will likely be to identify future players whom we can develop, not first team players who are expected to start straight away, though it may unearth some gems. I imagine we will still sign players from League One etc as well.

This is more like the draft system where you sign a player and develop them for a starting roll in 2 or 3 seasons time. Every season you find some more to develop and keep the door open. That way if one turns out good and gets sold, you have a potential replacement already here in waiting.

 

[AdamSufc1997]

He also said the players we brought in via A i don't seem to be very appealing either

This is only being used for development players though atm. We don't know how good it is being used on first team players due to brexitball?

 

[Moan? Nope-I saw Longhorn]

The cancer tests have come from years and years of research by bio chemists not Ai

Err
To quote HeySethUTB :-
“ Its a lack of understanding what AI does”

How Artificial Intelligence Is Transforming Cancer Care in 2025: Diagnosis, Treatment, Clinical Trials, and Screening - OncoDaily

Explore how Artificial Intelligence is transforming cancer care:diagnostics, treatment, clinical trials, and cancer screening—with the latest innovations.

oncodaily.com

It’s not a binary ‘either or” - it’s an enhancement/ supplement/ complement to decision making

 

[Railway Blade]

Can't knock the points total he achieved last season, and he rebuilt the squad very well with some good cheap signings to compliment the players that stayed - Hamer, Anel, Souza etc. This is where Wilder excels - picking up lower league gems (Burrows, Cooper and before that Stevens, Duffy, Fleck, JOC etc.)
However... he tried this model in the PL too and that doesn't work IMO. It's ok chucking in 1 or 2 unproven talents from the lower leagues, but 80% of the team need to be better than that.

I agree this has been the problem but is that Wilder or the level of club we are ?. He's at that point having to scale up but still hasnt got the resources to pay for ready made premier league players because we couldn't afford it. He's having to gamble to some extent that they will be able to adjust and improve.

I guess it was the same with Southampton, Leicester, and Ipswich last year. The gap between top level championship and premiership is huge and you're hindered by
a) Not having the required resources to beef up the squad and;
b) even if you have the resources you cant use them because of FFP.

I'm not saying he's perfect, that he hasn't made bad calls but he's having to gamble all the time. Oh to be Pep Guardiola

 

[Bladeloyal]

Err
To quote HeySethUTB :-
“ Its a lack of understanding what AI does”

How Artificial Intelligence Is Transforming Cancer Care in 2025: Diagnosis, Treatment, Clinical Trials, and Screening - OncoDaily

Explore how Artificial Intelligence is transforming cancer care:diagnostics, treatment, clinical trials, and cancer screening—with the latest innovations.

oncodaily.com

It’s not a binary ‘either or” - it’s an enhancement/ supplement/ complement to decision making

Yes if course it's a tool to be used ,but the advanced sciences used to develop these test come from years of dedicated lab work .

 

[Wards]

Alex Crook just said on Talksport that there is something in Wilders contract that means we get rid of him fairly cheaply now we haven't gone up and he expected it to happen weeks ago

I did keep mentioning this last year but the contract he got when in the PL was for 6 months with the clubs decision on an extension to 12. The new contract he was given was heavily weighted towards the club retaining control on any decisions like this. If he's sacked I expect he'll walk away with a years salary (or less)

 

[Shadota]

People didn’t trust the internet until they learned and started to use it. I mean one of our owners has used AI to detect cancer before its onset, he’ll know hundreds of top AI experts to draw upon, it’s not like he’s using filters on Football manager.

That's me ruled out of running the analytics department then

 

[Brian Deane]

Why don't get get an AI manager in

I can't speak for all the Brighton players who they've sold for millions over the years but I looked at their present squad which contains several players from lesser markets like Paraguay and the transfer fees involved were still into the many millions, in some cases over £10m. I'm not convinced that the signings we have done with AI are anywhere near their level or ever will be. Of course as a club we're not at Brighton's level neither but will these signings ever be good enough for the top flight? I have my doubts to say the least.

It seems we're repeating similar signings to Slimane, Larouchi and Traore but at development level.

I'd much rather sign youngsters from other clubs academies, from Scotland/Ireland, non league, from abroad for very small fees like Osula, Peck, David Brooks and One for example.

Having just One example isn't enough We need multiple examples for it to be sustainable going forwards.

 

[sheepbridge]

The cancer tests have come from years and years of research by bio chemists not Ai

Well yes, because Ai is a very modern technology where as cancer research has been around being done by humans for many many years.

Ai is now being used for cancer research and has led to massive strides in the advancement of care and knowledge, but I'm sure scientists are still deeply involved and would welcome the use of Ai in their field if it helps speed up and improve their knowledge and care they can provide.
Ai won't replace bio chemists, it's a tool to help them.
Artificial Intelligence (AI) in Cancer Research

Maybe not to dissimlar to a football club using Ai to help gain knowledge and insight in to players that might not be picked up by tradional scouting methods,
Increasing knowledge to help and improve player recruitment, not totally replace the humans or the club buys every player Ai might suggest might be worth investigating.

 

[HeySethUTB]

The cancer tests have come from years and years of research by bio chemists not Ai

I understand what you’re saying, although I’m not attributing all successful cancer screenings to AI while ignoring the biomedical research that has gone into cancer diagnosis. AI used on the NHS has already saved lives by detecting cancer cells that doctors and consultants had missed. That’s without even talking about diagnosis speeding up.

In the future biomedicine will rely on AI in the same way AI needed the initial biomedical research to undertake it task. And in the same way AI has identified human error based on objective criteria, it will certainly be able to spot players in an industry that is still very much subjective.

 

[Bladeloyal]

Well yes, because Ai is a very modern technology where as cancer research has been around being done by humans for many many years.

Ai is now being used for cancer research and has led to massive strides in the advancement of care and knowledge, but I'm sure scientists are still deeply involved and would welcome the use of Ai in their field if it helps speed up and improve their knowledge and care they can provide.
Ai won't replace bio chemists, it's a tool to help them.
Artificial Intelligence (AI) in Cancer Research

Maybe not to dissimlar to a football club using Ai to help gain knowledge and insight in to players that might not be picked up by tradional scouting methods,
Increasing knowledge to help and improve player recruitment, not totally replace the humans or the club buys every player Ai might suggest might be worth investigating.

Like I said in second post it has a role collating data . But it's very early on in ai technology as Google has found to it's cost having to buy up AI companies as Gemini was floundering.

 

[Blade56]

If only AI could find wingers using the search term " GERRIT IN'T MIXER" all would be well .

#onionbagfinder

 

[Blade56]

The cancer tests have come from years and years of research by bio chemists not Ai

But AI cracked Covid in weeks

 

[Chezzy Blades]

Like I said in second post it has a role collating data . But it's very early on in ai technology as Google has found to it's cost having to buy up AI companies as Gemini was floundering.

I work in this field, and there is absolutely AI reviewing cell samples and (in the case of skin cancer) images to make diagnoses right now in the NHS.

A medical professional will always check the result to be sure, but AI in the NHS is doing far more for cancer diagnosis right now than just collect data.

 

[Youngand70]

They're keen on writing, but maybe not to tell the whole story.

It would be grand to get a view from behind the scenes in terms of what happened when Wilder left and Hecky took over and how long CW was working on his relationship with the former owner before he returned. More importantly, did Hecky know?

The length of time most probably included a short training course in how to successfully stab someone in the back.