Outgoing? Chris Wilder

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The Bohemian said:
This wreaks of clueless owners who really don’t know what they don’t know. Who may have done ok in unrelated businesses and think football ‘is just another business.
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They have the likes of Des Taylor still around as advisors. If they were clueless as you assert, I doubt they would keep those types of people nearby.

To be clear, I don't have enough to go on from them so far to say they're the best thing since sliced bread, but it feels a little unfair to suggest they don't know what they're doing.
The Bohemian said:
Wilder has to be open-minded to embedding tech into his recruitment and coaching. It’s in his best interests to do so. That doesn’t mean it’s right to foist players on him, not of his choosing, and then judge him on their performance. Even worse, try to impose team selection decisions on him based on data
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Nobody has suggested that Wilder has had players foisted on him. The club, presumably with CW's blessing, has signed 3 players who they believe have a good chance of making it to the first team, and/or generating a meaningful profit. That second point is excessively common in football nowadays, and I doubt any manager would complain about their club generating more profit.

And where's this coming from about "impose team selection decisions on him based on data". Any proof for that having happened at any point? Because I'm inclined to believe it's nonsense. Considering Wilder walked once over a disagreement with the Prince about transfer budgets, you can damn near guarantee that he wouldn't hang around if his bosses tried to tell him what team to put out.
The Bohemian said:
those with a memory will recall he wasn’t dealt the easiest hand in preparing for the season given the long running ownership saga. He rebuilt a team in very little time that just failed to get up
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After he rebuilt the squad, he had the entire season to get them trained up, to play in a manner that maximised their abilities. Instead, we played like an underdog all season, trying to sneak goals on the break, while throwing bodies on the line at the other end to hold onto clean sheets. The fact that we were still doing that at Wembley indicates a failure to improve from the start of the season.

Some figures from fbref for context:
  • We admittedly had the 3rd best defence behind Burnley and Leeds, but we scored fewer goals than both of them too, as well as Middlesbrough, Coventry and Norwich.
  • Even Wednesday had a higher xG than us for the season. Norwich, Middlesbrough, Coventry and Leeds did as well.
  • We were 9th for progressive passes. West Brom, Swansea and Bristol City were 3 of the teams with more.

The squad that Wilder assembled, was absolutely capable of better than this. With the likes of Hamer, JRS, O'Hare, Campbell, just to name a few, we should have been aiming to dominate teams, and we simply did not do so. That can only be interpreted as a failure to develop the side.
The Bohemian said:
Wilder has proven he knows what it takes to win promotion to the big league.
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Wilder's prior successes don't give him a free pass now. We all certainly cherish those moments, but in the same way that us signing Ched Evans from Chesterfield was a poor decision, despite how well he had played for us some years prior, Wilder potentially staying should not be justified solely on the principle that he got us up to the Premier League 6 years ago. Since he left in 2021, he has had unremarkable spells with Watford and Middlesbrough, a relegation from the Prem with us (that he is largely unresponsible for), and this season. And while we came close to promotion, I do not believe that he would have achieved anything other than another relegation, based on the underwhelming performances his team delivered in the Championship.
 
I'm still bang between the lines of half the fanbase who want him gone and the other half who want him to stay. I thought the rumours of his departure would have triggered some sort of reaction, but there isn't one. There wasn't a reaction to the news from JR and there wasn't a reaction to the pockets of random info that suggest he's staying.

The division is clear from this forum, social media and from the chats with fellow blades in the local pubs. That division has apparently worked its way into the boardroom and to be honest, it's easy to see why.

There's a new owner in the picture who's evidently trying to attempt to bring Sheffield United into a new, modern, technology led era with hopes this will bring sustainability and success to Bramall Lane. At the same time, we have a manager who is rather old school in his ways with a wealth of experience of football, networking and dressing room know-how. A man who hangs his hat on if a player wants to play for Sheffield United, graft, run, fight and give 100% on the pitch. It's not a criticism, it's how we've got to this point since 2016 and how we've achieved the successes since that period. If you put that up against an ownership model who believe the way forward is more about what the player can actually do with and without a ball based on statistics, analysis and data, there's going to be strong opinions, mindsets and beliefs about which is the best approach, and if the employer and employee don't align on those values, it's untenable.

For every bit of praise, there's a criticism. For every point of failure, there's some success. This season has had some wonderful moments including accumulating 92 points, doing the double and reaching the play-off final. Those achievements have been made playing some pretty scrappy, unpredictable and desperate performances. We've all seen it go 1-0 up followed by 30, 45 or even 60 minutes of backs to the wall, anxious and below par football. We can discuss it till the cows come home how we made those wins stick. Was it a last minute super save from Cooper? Was it bodies on the line inside our own box? Was it a last minute winner from Hamer? Context matters and the squad this season was built on some very tight pockets with free transfers, small fees and youth coming through, during ownership uncertainty. To get that points tally and not be promoted is unbelievable and was only denied a return to the top league by Burnley and Leeds both reaching a crazy 100 points each. You then look to the capital and see the criticism of the season shown bare in a mere 30 minutes.

We're at a crossroad. If Wilder goes, we definitely lose something big. We lose that fan at the helm that drives that little bit extra out of players. I cast my mind back to that away win at Watford where our injuries were hitting us the hardest and we had One, RND, Brooks and Gilchrist playing, no-one expected a win but we got it through shear guts and determination. We would absolutely lose some level of proper fight, it was clear last season once he came back the team suddenly had some bollocks and ran that extra yard. On the other hand, there's that bigger picture, the top flight is littered with data, structure, business mentality with planning, execution and direction. We're in a fantastic position at the moment with the new CAT1 training facility to be built, the club liaising with fan led groups about improvements in the stands, new owners with ambition and ideas on how to achieve it. The question for us, and them, is do they have the right person leading the team to bring their ideas to fruition on the pitch.

For me, and for what it's worth, I don't believe there should be any disrespect, because without Wilder, we wouldn’t be in a position to even talk about long-term planning or new recruitment strategies. He pulled us up from the depths, gave us promotions, gave us Premier League football, gave us the double over the Wendys. And even this season, he quietly pulled off something remarkable after a monumental rebuild. So if the club decides it’s time to part ways, let’s be grown up about it. Don’t pretend he’s failed. Don’t pretend this season was a disaster. And don’t forget what we owe him just because the game is moving on.

Progress is important. Evolution is necessary. But respect should be non-negotiable.
 
MojoMuffin said:
I'm still bang between the lines of half the fanbase who want him gone and the other half who want him to stay. I thought the rumours of his departure would have triggered some sort of reaction, but there isn't one. There wasn't a reaction to the news from JR and there wasn't a reaction to the pockets of random info that suggest he's staying.

The division is clear from this forum, social media and from the chats with fellow blades in the local pubs. That division has apparently worked its way into the boardroom and to be honest, it's easy to see why.

There's a new owner in the picture who's evidently trying to attempt to bring Sheffield United into a new, modern, technology led era with hopes this will bring sustainability and success to Bramall Lane. At the same time, we have a manager who is rather old school in his ways with a wealth of experience of football, networking and dressing room know-how. A man who hangs his hat on if a player wants to play for Sheffield United, graft, run, fight and give 100% on the pitch. It's not a criticism, it's how we've got to this point since 2016 and how we've achieved the successes since that period. If you put that up against an ownership model who believe the way forward is more about what the player can actually do with and without a ball based on statistics, analysis and data, there's going to be strong opinions, mindsets and beliefs about which is the best approach, and if the employer and employee don't align on those values, it's untenable.

For every bit of praise, there's a criticism. For every point of failure, there's some success. This season has had some wonderful moments including accumulating 92 points, doing the double and reaching the play-off final. Those achievements have been made playing some pretty scrappy, unpredictable and desperate performances. We've all seen it go 1-0 up followed by 30, 45 or even 60 minutes of backs to the wall, anxious and below par football. We can discuss it till the cows come home how we made those wins stick. Was it a last minute super save from Cooper? Was it bodies on the line inside our own box? Was it a last minute winner from Hamer? Context matters and the squad this season was built on some very tight pockets with free transfers, small fees and youth coming through, during ownership uncertainty. To get that points tally and not be promoted is unbelievable and was only denied a return to the top league by Burnley and Leeds both reaching a crazy 100 points each. You then look to the capital and see the criticism of the season shown bare in a mere 30 minutes.

We're at a crossroad. If Wilder goes, we definitely lose something big. We lose that fan at the helm that drives that little bit extra out of players. I cast my mind back to that away win at Watford where our injuries were hitting us the hardest and we had One, RND, Brooks and Gilchrist playing, no-one expected a win but we got it through shear guts and determination. We would absolutely lose some level of proper fight, it was clear last season once he came back the team suddenly had some bollocks and ran that extra yard. On the other hand, there's that bigger picture, the top flight is littered with data, structure, business mentality with planning, execution and direction. We're in a fantastic position at the moment with the new CAT1 training facility to be built, the club liaising with fan led groups about improvements in the stands, new owners with ambition and ideas on how to achieve it. The question for us, and them, is do they have the right person leading the team to bring their ideas to fruition on the pitch.

For me, and for what it's worth, I don't believe there should be any disrespect, because without Wilder, we wouldn’t be in a position to even talk about long-term planning or new recruitment strategies. He pulled us up from the depths, gave us promotions, gave us Premier League football, gave us the double over the Wendys. And even this season, he quietly pulled off something remarkable after a monumental rebuild. So if the club decides it’s time to part ways, let’s be grown up about it. Don’t pretend he’s failed. Don’t pretend this season was a disaster. And don’t forget what we owe him just because the game is moving on.

Progress is important. Evolution is necessary. But respect should be non-negotiable.
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Great post. Fully agree with you. I'm Wider in but I also see some dangers with that just as I see potential dangers with a complete change of direction.

Lets hope we get it right and get behind whatever decision is made.
 
I know there’s a lot of posters who will be delighted if he goes. For me this will be an utterly ridiculous decision. Not everything went right last season but given that we started by clearing out 18 players and began a rebuild… to finish with 92 points and just come up short in the playoff final is a fantastic achievement.
If the owners have a huge bucket of funds that they want to throw at recruitment then another manager may be able to have us challenging. If as I suspect, we are still fairly limited financially then I simply don’t see any other manager keeping us in the mix for promotion.
As yet we’ve seen absolutely nothing of substance from the new owners and as I understand it, there is no work being done at Dore yet which makes me suspicious of how much money they’re willing to invest … so this will be the first really major move by COH … and for me it’s a very poor start. Let’s hope that they at least clearly communicate their reasons and their strategy and vision for the club…. wouldn’t that be a nice change !
I think we’ll all be regretting this decision sooner rather than later. Hope I’m wrong.
UTB
 
MartBlade said:
I think we’ll all be regretting this decision sooner rather than later.
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No one knows what their long term ambitions are and more importantly how good they are at running a football club, however there weren’t exactly hundreds of potential buyers knocking Abdullah’s door down.

We sold to the first people that were able to come up with the money, the alternative was to carry on with Abdullah taking us slowly backwards with less and less investment each year.

That or a couple of fraudsters who fancied some publicity for whatever reason.
 
Houston_Blade said:
No one knows what their long term ambitions are and more importantly how good they are at running a football club, however there weren’t exactly hundreds of potential buyers knocking Abdullah’s door down.

We sold to the first people that were able to come up with the money, the alternative was to carry on with Abdullah taking us slowly backwards with less and less investment each year.

That or a couple of fraudsters who fancied some publicity for whatever reason.
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I agree with that…. which is why I think it’s even more important to have an astute and capable manager…. who can operate on a low budget.
 
Houston_Blade said:
No one knows what their long term ambitions are and more importantly how good they are at running a football club, however there weren’t exactly hundreds of potential buyers knocking Abdullah’s door down.

We sold to the first people that were able to come up with the money, the alternative was to carry on with Abdullah taking us slowly backwards with less and less investment each year.

That or a couple of fraudsters who fancied some publicity for whatever reason.
Click to expand...
So we're back to somehow trashing PA for this?

He's not even fucking here 😂
 
Blade56 said:
It was turgid, a slow motion season. We knew when we topped the league with points in hand Wilder would bottle and he did. We knew when the second goal was disallowed at Wembley we’d go into survival mode and we did.

It was an awful season to experience.

Sorry Bb got to disagree
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Not sure if you’re on a wind on a lot of the time

Incredible season.
Yes we came up short and missed top 2 but we won a huge number of games to get a very high points tally.

That’s not an awful season
 
MojoMuffin said:
I'm still bang between the lines of half the fanbase who want him gone and the other half who want him to stay. I thought the rumours of his departure would have triggered some sort of reaction, but there isn't one. There wasn't a reaction to the news from JR and there wasn't a reaction to the pockets of random info that suggest he's staying.

The division is clear from this forum, social media and from the chats with fellow blades in the local pubs. That division has apparently worked its way into the boardroom and to be honest, it's easy to see why.

There's a new owner in the picture who's evidently trying to attempt to bring Sheffield United into a new, modern, technology led era with hopes this will bring sustainability and success to Bramall Lane. At the same time, we have a manager who is rather old school in his ways with a wealth of experience of football, networking and dressing room know-how. A man who hangs his hat on if a player wants to play for Sheffield United, graft, run, fight and give 100% on the pitch. It's not a criticism, it's how we've got to this point since 2016 and how we've achieved the successes since that period. If you put that up against an ownership model who believe the way forward is more about what the player can actually do with and without a ball based on statistics, analysis and data, there's going to be strong opinions, mindsets and beliefs about which is the best approach, and if the employer and employee don't align on those values, it's untenable.

For every bit of praise, there's a criticism. For every point of failure, there's some success. This season has had some wonderful moments including accumulating 92 points, doing the double and reaching the play-off final. Those achievements have been made playing some pretty scrappy, unpredictable and desperate performances. We've all seen it go 1-0 up followed by 30, 45 or even 60 minutes of backs to the wall, anxious and below par football. We can discuss it till the cows come home how we made those wins stick. Was it a last minute super save from Cooper? Was it bodies on the line inside our own box? Was it a last minute winner from Hamer? Context matters and the squad this season was built on some very tight pockets with free transfers, small fees and youth coming through, during ownership uncertainty. To get that points tally and not be promoted is unbelievable and was only denied a return to the top league by Burnley and Leeds both reaching a crazy 100 points each. You then look to the capital and see the criticism of the season shown bare in a mere 30 minutes.

We're at a crossroad. If Wilder goes, we definitely lose something big. We lose that fan at the helm that drives that little bit extra out of players. I cast my mind back to that away win at Watford where our injuries were hitting us the hardest and we had One, RND, Brooks and Gilchrist playing, no-one expected a win but we got it through shear guts and determination. We would absolutely lose some level of proper fight, it was clear last season once he came back the team suddenly had some bollocks and ran that extra yard. On the other hand, there's that bigger picture, the top flight is littered with data, structure, business mentality with planning, execution and direction. We're in a fantastic position at the moment with the new CAT1 training facility to be built, the club liaising with fan led groups about improvements in the stands, new owners with ambition and ideas on how to achieve it. The question for us, and them, is do they have the right person leading the team to bring their ideas to fruition on the pitch.

For me, and for what it's worth, I don't believe there should be any disrespect, because without Wilder, we wouldn’t be in a position to even talk about long-term planning or new recruitment strategies. He pulled us up from the depths, gave us promotions, gave us Premier League football, gave us the double over the Wendys. And even this season, he quietly pulled off something remarkable after a monumental rebuild. So if the club decides it’s time to part ways, let’s be grown up about it. Don’t pretend he’s failed. Don’t pretend this season was a disaster. And don’t forget what we owe him just because the game is moving on.

Progress is important. Evolution is necessary. But respect should be non-negotiable.
Click to expand...
Nail>>>>>Head
 

SwissBlade said:
Not sure if you’re on a wind on a lot of the time

Incredible season.
Yes we came up short and missed top 2 but we won a huge number of games to get a very high points tally.

That’s not an awful season
Click to expand...

If you judge the season solely on results it was a very good season, but if it’s judged on performances it was average at best.
 
HarryHaslam said:
Oh I know you want him gone you made that perfectly clear every single week but it’s all about opinions so you’re entitled to them as much as I am. It is good to hear your prepared to back him if he keeps his job though 👍
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And similarly, it’s good to know that you will be fully behind any future managerial appointment, no matter who it is.
 
ATL Recs said:
Dont think youve quite grasped this AI lark Spidey- AI is not going to be the strategy its going to be a part of the strategy - the three signings so far have been brought in for development - very much an experiment the rest of the startegy is not out in the public domain yet but does include human interface in picking scouting and chasing players
Click to expand...
I agree with this. When we think of AI now, some would assume it's simply typing in "find some players we need" and AI does the rest.
The important point about databases is that you have access to an actual database. So, the first positive is we have access to some kind of database listing 100,000s of players all around the world. You might be able to filter that database as a human - for instance on Autotrader - cars that are less than 8 years old, have a mileage below 30,000 and is a petrol engine.
The results could be in the hundreds or even thousands - so how would you be able to trawl through the final list? It would take a lot of time, especially if that database is more nuanced because it's human beings playing football.
Are they injured? What is their xG? Their speed? How many shots? How many assists? How old? Where did they play? Who was their previous manager? What was that managers style of play?
So AI is there to do that work for you - to filter that database to find the players that suit Sheffield United. Then it's up to humans to keep filtering it until they have 5-10 players that match the criteria - then go out and try to sign them, or try again with different filters if they aren't quite what we are looking for.
 
Nick Jansky said:
And similarly, it’s good to know that you will be fully behind any future managerial appointment, no matter who it is.
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Of course I will, don’t care who it is I’m behind them, you see I’m not a Chris Wilder fan I’m a United fan so want what’s best for the club. Right now I believe Wilder is easily the best man for the job, the moment he leaves I’ll immediately move on and be looking forward to the next man.
 
HarryHaslam said:
Of course I will, don’t care who it is I’m behind them, you see I’m not a Chris Wilder fan I’m a United fan so want what’s best for the club. Right now I believe Wilder is easily the best man for the job, the moment he leaves I’ll immediately move on and be looking forward to the next man.
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I get behind the team on the pitch, without exception. I will never boo players under any circumstances (apart from anything else, looking & sounding like an ape is a ridiculous look) but I’m perfectly happy to give a manager a bit of grief. I get behind the team, not the manager.
 
Nick Jansky said:
I get behind the team on the pitch, without exception. I will never boo players under any circumstances (apart from anything else, looking & sounding like an ape is a ridiculous look) but I’m perfectly happy to give a manager a bit of grief. I get behind the team, not the manager.
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Nowt wrong with that, if a managers shite I’ll give him grief also.
 
If he stays ,at least till Xmas he's going to be under pressure from day one imo, that's not a good position to be in especially if he's spent a lot of money again, he doesn't do pressure very well and this could end badly for both parties, glad I'm not making these decisions
 

HVR said:
I agree with this. When we think of AI now, some would assume it's simply typing in "find some players we need" and AI does the rest.
The important point about databases is that you have access to an actual database. So, the first positive is we have access to some kind of database listing 100,000s of players all around the world. You might be able to filter that database as a human - for instance on Autotrader - cars that are less than 8 years old, have a mileage below 30,000 and is a petrol engine.
The results could be in the hundreds or even thousands - so how would you be able to trawl through the final list? It would take a lot of time, especially if that database is more nuanced because it's human beings playing football.
Are they injured? What is their xG? Their speed? How many shots? How many assists? How old? Where did they play? Who was their previous manager? What was that managers style of play?
So AI is there to do that work for you - to filter that database to find the players that suit Sheffield United. Then it's up to humans to keep filtering it until they have 5-10 players that match the criteria - then go out and try to sign them, or try again with different filters if they aren't quite what we are looking for.
Click to expand...
Let me just explain a little further about AI in regard to the Autotrader example in my previous post. You filter a van that is less than 8 years old and below 30,000 miles and has a petrol engine. You then choose from the options.
AI would do all that too. But it would also filter stuff like - which garage has the best reviews? Which garage has in the past, been convicted of fraud reviews? So, which is the best garage to buy a van from? {search the entire database using review / fraud / cheapest prices} It would instantly check your credit rating - and your bank balance - and your wage - to determine where is the best place to buy then order it in lesser places to buy. You would get the perfect Van! That's AI.
 
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