The Obsession with “selling out”

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BiggerBladeThanThou

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I’ve seen it thrown around like some badge of shame on Football Away Days, other fan forums, Porktalk etc. “They didn’t even sell out!” as if failing to fill every seat in a stadium somehow invalidates a club’s performance, progress, or support. It’s about time we talk about how irrelevant and overblown this obsession with selling out has become.

Let’s start with the obvious, football is about what happens on the pitch, not in the stands. A club can grind out results, build a solid team, and climb the table with empty seats in the background. You don’t get extra points for a sold out crowd. And let’s be honest, some fans of a nearby opposition club only turn up when the team is winning or a “big name” opponent like Sheffield United or even Peterborough United rolls into town.

Second, there are tons of reasons why a match might not sell out - awkward kickoff times, rising ticket prices, televised games, travel costs, midweek scheduling, weather, or just plain life getting in the way. Not everyone has the luxury of dropping everything to be there in person every time.

Then there’s this weird superiority complex some nearby opposition clubs and fanbases have over attendances. It’s turned into a numbers game, as if you’re a lesser club because your ground wasn’t at 100% capacity for a Tuesday night match in February. Since when did empty seats define the soul of a football club? I think I know why, since fans of a nearby opposition club had nothing else to shout and get excited about. That’s why.

We should be praising the people who do show up, week in, week out, not shaming those who can’t. And we should definitely stop pretending a club’s legitimacy or status hinges on ticket sales - more and more of our fan base are becoming infected by the porcine’s obsession virus.

Let’s focus less on the optics and more on the substance. Passion isn’t measured by the turnstile clicker and we all know when the Lane is rocking, it’s rocking but that’s often organic and raw.

And while we’re at it, let’s give credit where it’s due, our support, both home and away, has been consistently outstanding across multiple seasons, in both the Premier League and Championship and even League One. BDTBL has regularly been near capacity regardless of form, and the away following has been among the loudest and best-travelled in the country.
 

Very good post.

When you boil it down to an individual level it’s quite shameful.

Would it be nice for the players to play in front of a full stadium? Probably. If there were 2,000 fewer would it make a huge difference to the atmosphere? Probably not.

But at an individual level who are you having a pop at? The old man who is drawing his pension who might be hoping for one last trip to Wembley before he sniffs it, but can’t afford that and the semi final? What about the guy who has just lost his job and his lads want to go and it’s either the semi and watch the final at home or take them to their first Wembley experience? Or perhaps it’s the guy working shifts who has been going on Saturday at three and can’t all of a sudden switch to go Monday at 8? Or perhaps the family that’s just struggling and had all on to save for season ticket money?

Which one of these is letting us down from selling out?

Line you say, it’s made as a barometer by the other lot simply because on every other scale, be that Academy set up, ground, league position, revenue and overall standing, they are Bronze Age to our Post Industrial Revolution.

Even that Barometer has its limits in how it gets applied. It will be how many did you seek in the Play Off Semi and how many in the final? It’s not withstanding the fact that 33,373 more seats were occupied to watch United over the season than Wednesday. A fair barometer, same division, same opposition, same number of matches. No, not that one. It will be the unprovable “we would have sold out” despite not selling out all season more or less, vs the actual sales we make.

It’s a non-barometer on a tiny sample size because they have nothing left. They are basically Ian Beale FC!
 
Do attendances matter? Yes and no.

If we get to Wembley and lose, it won’t be any consolation if we’ve sold out or not.

But attendances will always be important as it generates income for the club, so if we want to compete at the highest level we need fans to back the club.
 
Very good post.

When you boil it down to an individual level it’s quite shameful.

Would it be nice for the players to play in front of a full stadium? Probably. If there were 2,000 fewer would it make a huge difference to the atmosphere? Probably not.

But at an individual level who are you having a pop at? The old man who is drawing his pension who might be hoping for one last trip to Wembley before he sniffs it, but can’t afford that and the semi final? What about the guy who has just lost his job and his lads want to go and it’s either the semi and watch the final at home or take them to their first Wembley experience? Or perhaps it’s the guy working shifts who has been going on Saturday at three and can’t all of a sudden switch to go Monday at 8? Or perhaps the family that’s just struggling and had all on to save for season ticket money?

Which one of these is letting us down from selling out?

Line you say, it’s made as a barometer by the other lot simply because on every other scale, be that Academy set up, ground, league position, revenue and overall standing, they are Bronze Age to our Post Industrial Revolution.

Even that Barometer has its limits in how it gets applied. It will be how many did you seek in the Play Off Semi and how many in the final? It’s not withstanding the fact that 33,373 more seats were occupied to watch United over the season than Wednesday. A fair barometer, same division, same opposition, same number of matches. No, not that one. It will be the unprovable “we would have sold out” despite not selling out all season more or less, vs the actual sales we make.

It’s a non-barometer on a tiny sample size because they have nothing left. They are basically Ian Beale FC!
Btw

Is it Sniffs it ? Or Snuffs it ?
 
Really good post.
I don't get the obsession either. It's obviously good business to get the ground as full as possible, but a lot of the time we achieve that, and people have loads of reasons why they miss this match or that. All the reasons are valid for them, and that's fine by me.
Filling the ground doesn't necessarily bring success. Both Portsmouth and Bradford City have great attendances, but they languished in the lower leagues for years. I don't think they obsess about their attendances either. It's a minority sport, so let's leave it to the one club out of the 92 and not get involved in such a silly competition.
 
If your ground is 100% full for every game, then technically your ground ain't big enough...supply and demand
 
Do attendances matter? Yes and no.

If we get to Wembley and lose, it won’t be any consolation if we’ve sold out or not.

But attendances will always be important as it generates income for the club, so if we want to compete at the highest level we need fans to back the club.

Of course, attendances bring money. But that’s not what the obsession is about, no one is saying “haha they don’t sell out that must mean they’re not bringing in income”….its more of a stature, my clubs bigger than your club argument based on who brings more fans. When in reality that’s all bollocks.
 
Attendances do matter.
The pigs obsession with them is stupid because they've never been a well supported team, they just think they are in their own deluded heads because they can go to Wembley and bring their four year old daughter and Uncle Tom Cobley an all with them
 

I’ve seen it thrown around like some badge of shame on Football Away Days, other fan forums, Porktalk etc. “They didn’t even sell out!” as if failing to fill every seat in a stadium somehow invalidates a club’s performance, progress, or support. It’s about time we talk about how irrelevant and overblown this obsession with selling out has become.

Let’s start with the obvious, football is about what happens on the pitch, not in the stands. A club can grind out results, build a solid team, and climb the table with empty seats in the background. You don’t get extra points for a sold out crowd. And let’s be honest, some fans of a nearby opposition club only turn up when the team is winning or a “big name” opponent like Sheffield United or even Peterborough United rolls into town.

Second, there are tons of reasons why a match might not sell out - awkward kickoff times, rising ticket prices, televised games, travel costs, midweek scheduling, weather, or just plain life getting in the way. Not everyone has the luxury of dropping everything to be there in person every time.

Then there’s this weird superiority complex some nearby opposition clubs and fanbases have over attendances. It’s turned into a numbers game, as if you’re a lesser club because your ground wasn’t at 100% capacity for a Tuesday night match in February. Since when did empty seats define the soul of a football club? I think I know why, since fans of a nearby opposition club had nothing else to shout and get excited about. That’s why.

We should be praising the people who do show up, week in, week out, not shaming those who can’t. And we should definitely stop pretending a club’s legitimacy or status hinges on ticket sales - more and more of our fan base are becoming infected by the porcine’s obsession virus.

Let’s focus less on the optics and more on the substance. Passion isn’t measured by the turnstile clicker and we all know when the Lane is rocking, it’s rocking but that’s often organic and raw.

And while we’re at it, let’s give credit where it’s due, our support, both home and away, has been consistently outstanding across multiple seasons, in both the Premier League and Championship and even League One. BDTBL has regularly been near capacity regardless of form, and the away following has been among the loudest and best-travelled in the country.
Some clubs and fans don't really have much to shout about, and so they invent this relevance of crowds being a win.

Usually the same clubs and fans that havnt been successful for many years and only get a decent turn out twice a season then rest of the season it's well below, also note that a lot of 1 club cities like to boast too which is again irrelevant.

Basically another way of trying to stay relevant.
 
I always think Wednesday are inordinately proud of the fact that they have around 16,000 -20,000 “fans” who only show up for Wembley trips. What they should be asking is where they are the rest of the season. Our attendances at Wembley are closer to our league attendances, which is surely how it should be.
 
Some clubs and fans don't really have much to shout about, and so they invent this relevance of crowds being a win.

Usually the same clubs and fans that havnt been successful for many years and only get a decent turn out twice a season then rest of the season it's well below, also note that a lot of 1 club cities like to boast too which is again irrelevant.

Basically another way of trying to stay relevant.

My post alludes to this.
 
‘It’s not withstanding the fact that 33,373 more seats were occupied to watch United over the season than Wednesday.’

This including their bigger away offering too…
 
I prefer the ones who get to their seats after 10mins, leave for HT on 40’, arrive back with a pie on 50’ and then leave at 88’, then complain about ticket prices or kick off times.


With you all the way, especially the look on their faces when we score on 52 and they drop the pie.
 
I have a mate who's a Forest fan and he hated the fact that teams like Wigan, Bournemouth and Brighton were in the Premier League and staying there because the felt their crowd capacity didn't match the status of being in the Premier League. I used to argue that so long as they were in the Premier League and Forest weren't, then they were a bigger club than Forest in the present, and that crowd size and history don't mean anything. You're only as big as your current relative state.
 
I have a mate who's a Forest fan and he hated the fact that teams like Wigan, Bournemouth and Brighton were in the Premier League and staying there because the felt their crowd capacity didn't match the status of being in the Premier League. I used to argue that so long as they were in the Premier League and Forest weren't, then they were a bigger club than Forest in the present, and that crowd size and history don't mean anything. You're only as big as your current relative state.
Good point.
And Brighton's ground, which they fill, is about the same size as Forest's.
 
An interesting sub text to tonight's game. If we fail to get through, or lose in the final, this could, potentially, be the last home game for our current management team and some of the players.
I think we'll see tonight out well enough then have enough in the tank to beat Coventry but not quite enough to do Sunderland. Sunderland will sell out their Wembley allocation easily too. They took anything between 45k and 50k to Wembley in the League One PO final in 2022.
 
I can understand why United fans wouldn't want to go to Wembley. We've got too many young lads in grey joggers who get too pissed/coked up and ruin it.
I’m at an age now where I’d actually love the police to be able to wade into them with batons & dogs. Fuck their rights.
 
I have a mate who's a Forest fan and he hated the fact that teams like Wigan, Bournemouth and Brighton were in the Premier League and staying there because the felt their crowd capacity didn't match the status of being in the Premier League. I used to argue that so long as they were in the Premier League and Forest weren't, then they were a bigger club than Forest in the present, and that crowd size and history don't mean anything. You're only as big as your current relative state.
Don’t believe any of your first four words😘
 
All of these recent posts about attendances must be Wednesday Fifth Columnists, right?
 

After the first, critically acclaimed album, you've gotta go with Crowd pleasers next. Bills to pay
 

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