The myth of our Play Off 'curse'

[Fjortoft's Aeroplane]

I think this group of players would be able to handle it, it's the fans I worry about

Barely sang all season so don't worry we can't get much worse.
How do you rate our first XI vs our previous play off final XIs?

 

[wak1889]

The consensus amongst many Unitedites is that it's autos or bust this season, with many already fearing the worst if we have to settle for the play offs.

Many feel we have a play off 'curse' having failed to win promotion in our eight promotion play off campaigns to date. But if you step back and take an analytical approach you soon see the 'curse' is a myth and that should we miss out on automatic promotion things may be very different in the play offs this time around.

These are are final positions and points tallies we achieved in those eight previous play off seasons:

96/97
League position: 5th
Points: 73

97/98
League position: 6th
Points: 74 (16 points behind 3rd place Sunderland)

02/03
League position: 3rd
Points: 80 (1 point ahead of 4th and 4 points ahead of Play Off winners Wolves)

08/09
League position: 3rd
Points: 90 (3 points ahead of 4th and 4 points ahead of Play Off winners Burnley)

11/12
League position: 3rd
Points: 90 (9 points ahead of fourth placed Huddersfield)

12/13
League position: 5th
Points: 75

14/15
League position: 5th
Points: 71 (18 points behind 3rd place)

21/22
League position: 5th
Points: 75 (7 points behind third place)

As you can see, in the majority of those seasons we finished either 5th or 6th in the league and were well off the pace of the teams at the top. We were outsiders in these seasons and it is no real surprise that we missed out on winning the Play Offs.

In three of the eight seasons we finished third, so maybe could have been considered favourites to win the play offs. In two of those seasons the gap between us and the teams immediately below was very small.

The only exception is the 11/12 season when we finished in third place and were 9 clear points ahead of fourth placed Huddersfield, the team we lost to in the final. I'd say only that play off campaign could be considered a genuine failure and even then there is the mitigation of losing Ched Evans with a few games left and a rather freakish penalty shoot out.

There is no 'curse' and what happened previously has no bearing on what might happen this season. This season is completely different, for a number of reasons.

After 39 games we have already amassed more points (considerably more in some cases) than we did all the above seasons, bar the 11/12 season, but we look set to comfortably top that.

We are already guaranteed a place in the play offs at a minimum and if that is the case (barring a bizarre set of results in the final 7 games) we will almost certainly finish third, comfortably ahead of Sunderland and with a gaping chasm between ourselves and the other two play off teams.

I've heard people say this season that our record against the teams in around the play off places isn't very good. I beg to differ.

We played Sunderland twice during our trickiest spell of the season where we had a lot of back to back games and our squad was threadbare. We won one and lost one with a 2-2 aggregate score.

Same with West Brom, played them twice in quick succession during that tricky spell and drew both games.

Last Friday night we saw the gulf in class between ourselves and Coventry.

Boro beat us when we had that tricky couple of games after the death of George Baldock but we were a class above when we faced them with a much stronger squad a couple of months back.

Bristol City - we won one and drew one.

Our current team has shown time and time again this season they can handle the big pressure. One other thing we didn't have in the eight previous play off campaigns was Chris Wilder as manager.

We're in a great position. We've got a very good chance of autos and at the very worst we'll have to settle for the play offs. At the end of the day that wouldn't be the end of the world and we'd have a great chance of breaking this non-existant 'curse'.

Whatever happens between now and the end of the season, let's just f*ckin' enjoy it!

Whilst I don't disagree with you I would say based on the information we either finished 3rd or 5th not 5th or 6th, for some reason we never finish 4th

 

[Rufus Smalls]

The 1997 final against Palace was a dogger game, or that's my recollection of it.

The 2003 game versus Wolves was one of my biggest disappointment as a Blade. It's not that we lost, it's that we barely turned up.

The 97 final wasn’t just a shit game where we barely laid a glove on Palace, our seats were about cross bar height to the left of the goal. Red hot day with the sun beaming directly on us all match.

Chuffin’ boiling !

 

[wak1889]

We have had 9 play offs not 8, as follows,

• 1988 division 2 finished 3rd bottom and entered league one semi final play offs and lost to Bristol City. So relegated to division 3.
• 1997 championship lost final 1-0 to Palace.
• 2022 championship lost on penalties to Forest in semi’s.
• 1998 championship lost to Sunderland in semi finals.
• 2003 championship lost final 3-0 to Wolves.
• 2009 championship lost final 1-0 to Burnley.
• 2012 league one final lost on penalties to Huddersfield 8-7.
• 2013 league one semi-final lost to Yeovil.
• 2015 league one semi-final lost to Swindon.

I'm order loving have listed you them in

 

[Greystones Blade]

My recollection of the Huddersfield final is that they tried to kick us all over the park in the first 20 minutes and succeeded in putting Williamson out of the match. He was a key player and we missed him. Or have I got it wrong?

 

[Tickhill Blade]

It's always been obvious to me, the football gods took one look at Howards shirt/tie combo in 1997, and the curse was placed as punishment

 

[Pollingtonblade]

My recollection of the Huddersfield final is that they tried to kick us all over the park in the first 20 minutes and succeeded in putting Williamson out of the match. He was a key player and we missed him. Or have I got it wrong?

My memory is it was the worst game of football ever seen at Wembley stadium, we were disgraceful literally hoping for penalties, we didn't go near their box once. Disgraceful performance

 

[Sheffsteel]

4 different managers
4 different teams
Not one shot at net in any od games and never looked like winning any and in 3 of them were the most dire games of football to be played at Wembley

Unbelievable

You can also add failing to win our last 8 (eight) FA cup semi finals and 2 league cup finals.

I went to a few of those FA cup semis and guess what? We failed to turn up and struggled to score a single goal.

The only highlight was home to Liverpool in the league cup semi 1st leg where we won and played brilliantly.

And also the FA cup semi final against Hull City. We played brilliantly 1st half and decently led 2-1. We ended up losing 5-3, a scoreline that didn’t show how good we were. It’s the only Wembley type match I’ve partially enjoyed.

 

[metalblade]

To be honest in no particular order I can only see the three teams promoted being United, Burnley and Leeds the only other team to come close would be Sunderland.
Which one of the top three that goes into the play off's will surely have enough to win them you would think. If the worst did happen I wouldn't be as worried as I would normally be about our chances, the law of averages says we have to win a play off at some point, we will never be better equipped to do so.

 

[Pollingtonblade]

You can also add failing to win our last 8 (eight) FA cup semi finals and 2 league cup finals.

I went to a few of those FA cup semis and guess what? We failed to turn up and struggled to score a single goal.

The only highlight was home to Liverpool in the league cup semi 1st leg where we won and played brilliantly.

And also the FA cup semi final against Hull City. We played brilliantly 1st half and decently led 2-1. We ended up losing 5-3, a scoreline that didn’t show how good we were. It’s the only Wembley type match I’ve partially enjoyed.

I don't recall us playing shit in semi finals as I do in play off finals. Plus we tended to be facing opponents in a Division or 2 above.

 

[Berkshire Blade]

I see the Wembley arch a few times a week and all season long when I do see it I am hoping we don't have to hope to reach it again!

 

[John Street West Terrace]

I think we overtook Preston & Lincoln as having the worst play off record in the EFL after the defeat to Forest . No fkg wonder we think we have a curse !!

 

[Wards]

Barely managed a shot on target in those finals never mind an actual goal. The only one I thought we really should've won was the 03 one.

 

[MadDad38]

It's always been obvious to me, the football gods took one look at Howards shirt/tie combo in 1997, and the curse was placed as punishment
View attachment 207885

A cunning ploy to distract from the suit, which he must have sourced from Top Man in Southport

 

[robbiez666]

Yeah I don’t include any play off semi defeats in the curse as those seasons we staggered to the finish line and there were better teams around us.

4 finals, each playing abysmally against teams that finished below us and scoring no goals is quite something though.

That said you can point to reasons in each case

97 - we had a few injuries (Alan Kelly, Chris Short and a couple of others if memory serves). However the biggest factor in our downfall here was Howard Kendall taking the team on a week long piss up as preparation.

03 - a long season with 60 odd games played took its toll on the squad. Dean Windass, who would have started, got sent home from the team hotel for shitting on a golf course. Warnock was also prone to setting his sides up too negatively in big games.

09 - Blackwell, hot day, £200 million on the line. We weren’t exactly getting prime Barcelona. McCabe had also started dismantling the squad in earnest and we finished the campaign much weaker than we started it.

12 - Ched.

We lost Katchuro and Hutchinson in the first half in 97. A terrible day. Coach delayed via the nick and then a woman complaining about her husband eating the last piece of chicken for hours on the way back.

 

[billyblademan]

My memory is it was the worst game of football ever seen at Wembley stadium, we were disgraceful literally hoping for penalties, we didn't go near their box once. Disgraceful performance

I remember us having a corner at one point, and they put about 5 blokes on Maguire. He still won the header, it came to nothing, and it dawned on me that was as close to scoring as we'd likely come.

 

[Frank the tank]

Reading this thread it's not hard to see why we've never won a play off or cup

Luckily enough wilder isn't your typical blade and is resilient and mentally tough
As are the players
Maybe it would be best for us a fanbase to. Win one rather than autos and perhaps we could finally bury the tag of being the biggest fannies fans In The country

 

[Wapping Blade]

In most of the play off games we got what we deserved. Against Wolves Warnock dropped McCall for Rankine and Windass for Asaba and didn't even bring Windass. I'm still convinced to this day that if we'd started McCall and Windass we'd have played better and won.

Against Burnley we had sold Beattie and replaced him with Jamie Ward and Craig Beattie. It didn't help that Ward got sent off in the second half when we were already behind. It also didn't help that Blackwell was a very limited manager whose only tactics were kick the crap out of players and hoof it.

The Ched situation derailed that play off campaign and we only lost on sudden death penalties with Simonsen being the final taker, a rare situation.

I don't think we're cursed or destined to never win in the play offs. The above were all down to either our own doing or just bad luck.

The missed penalty at Cardiff was the killer. My late Wolves mate was still nervous at half time and agreed that the game could have swung had that gone in.

 

[BalticBlade]

The missed penalty at Cardiff was the killer. My late Wolves mate was still nervous at half time and agreed that the game could have swung had that gone in.

I think I left after about 76 minutes at Cardiff.

 

[Balham]

My recollection of the Huddersfield final is that they tried to kick us all over the park in the first 20 minutes and succeeded in putting Williamson out of the match. He was a key player and we missed him. Or have I got it wrong?

Williamson missed our first penalty so can't have been forced off.

The only thing I have to add is that in 2009 we had one of the most blatant penalty shouts turned down when Kyle Walker was chopped down in the second half. It was mind-boggling that it wasn't given...until I heard about Kevin Hoofwell's pre-match comments.

 

[Bladesince59]

Only went to the Palace, Wolves, Huddersfield and Burnley games. Palace we played 85 minutes for a draw; Wolves pissed all over us; Huddersfield we had Simmo and Burnley we didn't have a friggin shot on goal.

We generally don't turn up and we are quite capable of doing that again.

So it's autos for me thanks.

 

[Pollingtonblade]

Them players all played disgraceful after Ched was sent down I mean fuck me only drawing at home to Stevenage in front of 30k fans when a win would have pretty much put us up.

 

[Harry's Game]

It’s a psychological thing now, I doubt we will ever win a play off final.

After the Burnley play off I said that’s me done with play off finals and skipped the Huddersfield one and watched it on TV in hopes of changing our luck.. made no difference.

If we got to the play off final this season I may go as far as not watching at all and go out into the peaks for the day with no phone signal see if that works.

 

[Balham]

You can also add failing to win our last 8 (eight) FA cup semi finals and 2 league cup [semi]-finals.

Those semi-finals (I only count 6 consecutive lost FA semi-finals): we haven't gone into one as a peer, let alone a favourite, for nearly 90 years. Two of the last three have been with a two-division gap to our opponents.

FA Cup
2023: Championship United 0-3 peak Manchester City. We never stood a chance
2014: League One United 3-5 Premier League Humberside Jungle Cats. We gave it a good go but Huddlestone made the difference
2003: Championship United 0-1 Premier League Arsenal: denied by one of the best saves of all time and a refereeing error but ultimately Arsenal were a far better side
1998: Championship United 0-1 Premier League Newcastle: gave it a good go but ultimately outclassed
1993: can't remember what happened in this one
1960: Division Two United 0-2 Division One Leicester (AET, second replay). The first two ties finished 0-0, as did the third one at 90 mins. Leicester had Gordon Banks in goal
1936: Division Two United 2-1 Division Two Fulham. We'd go on to lose 1-0 to Division One Arsenal in the final

League Cup
2015: League One United 2-3 Premier League Spurs: lost the first leg 1-0 after a ridiculously conceded penalty. Fought back in the second leg (Ché Adams!) but ultimately undone by a moment of real quality from Christian Eriksen
2003: Championship United 2-3 Premier League Liverpool (AET): some questionable decision making from the referee (Kirkland should have been sent off) and us in allowing Tommy Mooney to take a free kick when Michael Brown was on the pitch but we once again fell just short despite the quality gap between the teams

 

[BalticBlade]

It’s a psychological thing now, I doubt we will ever win a play off final.

After the Burnley play off I said that’s me done with play off finals and skipped the Huddersfield one and watched it on TV in hopes of changing our luck.. made no difference.

If we got to the play off final this season I may go as far as not watching at all and go out into the peaks for the day with no phone signal see if that works.

But how can it psycholigically affect our current group of players? Many hadn't even been born when we had some of our previous play off campaigns.
Do you think the likes of Vini Souza even know we lost to Huddersfield in the 2012 final?

 

[Edgar Allan Poo]

But how can it psycholigically affect our current group of players? Many hadn't even been born when we had some of our previous play off campaigns.
Do you think the likes of Vini Souza even know we lost to Huddersfield in the 2012 final?

He couldn't fail to notice the ball visible to the naked eye and still orbiting the earth though could he?

 

[Davalon]

9 play off failures strictly speaking, if you count 1988 and Bristol City.

This would be our tenth attempt and I believe PNE and Brentford won at their tenth attempts.

 

[Melbourne Blade]

Soz I meant slagged

Assumed it was a typo but thought you meant to say "wanked"

 

[programmechap]

Neither team turned up. Sucker punched right at the end. Still can't hear "Glad all over"



Should have won the home leg 3-1 (we had a3 on 1 breakaway in the last minute) and we were fingertips away from equalising in the second leg.



Dumb dumb dumb

See 2003

Lost a penalty shoot out despite being 3-0 up at one stage I think? Or they missed the first 3. Classic United.


Fucking Swindon.

If Iliman connects with that shot in the last minute, I think we go up.

The Hudds penalty shoot out went thus..Huddersfield went first

Round 1 both miss
Round 2 Hudds miss United score
Round 3 both miss
(So Hudds missed all their first 3 leaving us 1-0 up with 3 pens left)
Round 4 Hudds score we miss
Round 5 both score.

So all square at 2-2 at the end of 5 rounds. Remarkably with the allegedly good takers only managing to.score 40% , the next 5 allegedly not so good takers on both.teams had a 100% record.

So at 7-7, only the goalies were left...

 

[Sheffsteel]

I don't recall us playing shit in semi finals as I do in play off finals. Plus we tended to be facing opponents in a Division or 2 above.

Agree we weren’t shit, they were all close matches, very competitive.

The Leicester trilogy in 1961 were all close and could have gone either way.
However we hardly created a single chance against Wednesday, they had loads of clear chances, a miracle we only lost 1-2
Hardly created a chance against Newcastle, altho they hardly created anything too, lost 0-1 to a late Shearer goal.
Hardly created a chance against Arsenal part from the Pesky header and Jags follow up, lost 0-1 with them scoring a dodgy/ controversial goal.
Played brilliantly 1st half against Hull, we were a league 1 side and gave PL Hull a bit of a footballing lesson, as expected Hull improved 2nd half, lost 3-5.
Didn’t create much against Man City, just remember the clear chance for N’Diaye in the 1st minute, lost 0-3.
Again we were competitive for most of the match, until we fell away, still blame Max Lowe for passing the ball straight to Mahrez on the centre circle.