Paynter vs Porter

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Agreed. Looked knackered in the 2nd half
 
I'm really not sure how well Paynter played because from my vantage point and with my eyes he might be Jose Baxter. :)
 
To be fair to Chris Porter, you have to look at the style of service they both got during the game.

As soon as he came on, a number started taking the easy option of lumping it in his general direction, which, because he's not as tall, they didn't with Paynter.

Paynter will cause more trouble because of this and the additional strength/mobility he has though.
 
Foxy said:
To be fair to Chris Porter, you have to look at the style of service they both got during the game.

As soon as he came on, a number started taking the easy option of lumping it in his general direction, which, because he's not as tall, they didn't with Paynter.

Paynter will cause more trouble because of this and the additional strength/mobility he has though.
Click to expand...

At least one poster can be objective then. Thank god for that.
 
Foxy said:
As soon as he came on, a number started taking the easy option of lumping it in his general direction, which, because he's not as tall, they didn't with Paynter.
Click to expand...

Paynter was able to win his headers and there was a few generic lumping of the ball up the field early game but he still managed to layoff the ball well, we looked a threat with him on the field but once Porter came on he missed his first 3/4 headers and didn't do anything, certainly nothing right.
Defend Porter if you want but he is one of the reasons why we are stuck in a relegation scrap.
If we do go down Porter would get a big chunk of the blame since he was leading the line all season.
 
stannyblade said:
Sorry but this negativity towards Porter is ridiculous. When he came on he didn't do anything wrong. Granted he didn't score but neither did Paynter
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I didn't say that Porter did anything wrong, he didn't, but Paynter's performance was far more complete - he held the ball up, created space, encouraged his team-mates and put a full shift in. Porter only ever does one of those.
 
Paynter showed mobility, some neat footwork at times, the ability to win flick ons, lay offs to our players, had some efforts on target.

If we stick with Porter I can see us going down. He just isn't good enough.
 
Paynter is a forward who gives you options I'm sure he'll be here for the rest of the season.
He can hurt teams he's already proven at this level.
Porter puts himself about but I don't know where he goes from here I know there's a lot on here who knock him but he has improved under Clough
 

Porter is probably a very nice bloke and you can't dispute that he gives 100%. But he simply isn't good enough, he has a poor touch, no goal scorers instinct, no vision, neither physical strength or aggression and these are essential traits for anyone playing the strikers role.

He has had the occasional decent game and I think some fans defend him more out of recognition of his industry than his ability. Without doubt the position we find ourselves in is down more to the lack of a centre forward than the failings of the captain
or the goalkeeper.

Time will tell if Paynter is the answer, but his performance today was certainly a step in the right direction. That said, we still need further strengthening in that position.
 
I thought Painter did well, but Porter also did some positive things when he came on, won headers and held the ball up. I know he's had games where his touch has been poor, but it wasn't the case yesterday. Having both should strengthen us.
 
Bergen Blade said:
I thought Painter did well, but Porter also did some positive things when he came on, won headers and held the ball up. I know he's had games where his touch has been poor, but it wasn't the case yesterday. Having both should strengthen us.
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Stop it, stop it, this has got to stop. He won a couple of headers FFS, other than that he was his usual lightweight self skipping about up front, giving his all yet always just too late to the ball, just a yard off. As far as I'm concerned if Clough has any managerial credibility, Chris Porters first team appearances will be over come February.

I don't like criticising him because he seems like a decent bloke, but he just hasn't got what it takes and when he plays we have zero threat up front and I, more than anything, want to see Utd kick on and start to move up the league. This will only happen if we start converting chances into goals and I'm afraid there is no room for sentiment, if you can't do it, you've got to go.

UTB
 
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Bladesway said:
At least one poster can be objective then. Thank god for that.
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I'm all for objectivity too. Stats like 1 goal every 7 appearances for us. Have our standards fallen so low that some still want to defend this?

We are on the brink of 4th division football, with a top scorer who's a center half. Let's be totally objectve - 1 in 7 is simply not good enough, and we must move on from him.

UTB
 
Bergen Blade said:
I thought Painter did well, but Porter also did some positive things when he came on, won headers and held the ball up. I know he's had games where his touch has been poor, but it wasn't the case yesterday. Having both should strengthen us.
Click to expand...


Wow, just wow. You've seen the game, right? Porter did well? It seems others like your post too. Words fail me.

UTB
 
alcoblade said:
I'm all for objectivity too. Stats like 1 goal every 7 appearances for us. Have our standards fallen so low that some still want to defend this?

We are on the brink of 4th division football, with a top scorer who's a center half. Let's be totally objectve - 1 in 7 is simply not good enough, and we must move on from him.

UTB
Click to expand...

No one is denying he isn't good enough but he takes 90% of the abuse dished out by fans while only being one of 16 or so who have performed like dog shit this season. Also and more importantly until we have something better he is all we have. Now, heres the rub. We have all this cash but we still haven't replaced Porter. Does that tell you where the key to all our problems really lies? Trust me, Chris Porter who gives 100% on all occasions isn't our biggest issue. Train your guns on the board and these people who transfer window after transfer window manipulate the truth. At this moment in time I am waiting for the following excuses:-

We tried to get the players in but they wouldn't come
Pest Agents
Someone else is to blame
We aren't going to bankrupt the club to pay the asking price of (insert name here)
Numerous other excuses to be trotted out

Fact is, if we go down we might be turning to Chris Porter next season. Now that is a genuinely frightening thought.

Whats the Hearts and Minds department dishing out via twitter at the moment? Stay strong Blades? I feel your pain? Jim Phipps says relax?
 
alcoblade said:
Wow, just wow. You've seen the game, right? Porter did well? It seems others like your post too. Words fail me.

UTB
Click to expand...

Porter did some positive things, i.e. won headers, a couple of freekicks and usually found teammates with passes. He was in an excellent scoring position once, but didn't get the ball. I also want better players, and I didn't say he was great, but what's with the wows? What awful mistakes did he make?
 
Bergen Blade said:
Porter did some positive things, i.e. won headers, a couple of freekicks and usually found teammates with passes. He was in an excellent scoring position once, but didn't get the ball. I also want better players, and I didn't say he was great, but what's with the wows? What awful mistakes did he make?
Click to expand...

Bergen Blade, I shouldn't worry about this mate. You made observations based on what you saw. Unfortunately I can't get to as many games as I'd like to, so posters who do attend are a useful source to someone like myself. After a while it's possible to get a sense of where the truth lies about individual performances. From what I can read most posters think the midfield played well, but one or two posters disagreed with this. Draw your own conclusions based on that.

Just keep posting fella, it's welcome by those, like myself, who enjoy reading posts on here UTB
 
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Bergen Blade said:
Porter did some positive things, i.e. won headers, a couple of freekicks and usually found teammates with passes. He was in an excellent scoring position once, but didn't get the ball. I also want better players, and I didn't say he was great, but what's with the wows? What awful mistakes did he make?
Click to expand...


Sorry fella, but it's based on utter frustration that as we work our way down the leagues with a strikeforce that can't hit a bulls ass with a banjo, there's an ongoing suggestion that they're doing OK really, and those that criticise are scapegoating players.

You undersatnd the game far more than I do, but I'm gobsmacked that you (or anyone) continues to argue that Chris Porter is making a valuable contribution to our team.

It's all about opinions, I know. My opinion is thast I'm gobsmacked by yours. :)

UTB
 
Bladesway said:
No one is denying he isn't good enough but he takes 90% of the abuse dished out by fans while only being one of 16 or so who have performed like dog shit this season. Also and more importantly until we have something better he is all we have. Now, heres the rub. We have all this cash but we still haven't replaced Porter. Does that tell you where the key to all our problems really lies? Trust me, Chris Porter who gives 100% on all occasions isn't our biggest issue.
Click to expand...

I've liked your post, but i think this bit is just wrong.

The striker (hence Chris Porter) IS our biggest problem. And given that we've only managed to bring in ONE player (have we got all this cash really?), and the one that's been replaced is Porter - my growing concern has been somewhat abated, because it seems the manager really can see what I and many others see.

UTB
 
super_pig said:
well no. .that is Doyle and Collins :D
we've been on a downward spiral ever since alehouse signed these clowns
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I would say we have been on a downward spiral ever since we signed Fathi, Seck and co, Doyle and Collins are just part of the overall Rammel we have bought over the years.

alcoblade said:
I've liked your post, but i think this bit is just wrong.

The striker (hence Chris Porter) IS our biggest problem. And given that we've only managed to bring in ONE player (have we got all this cash really?), and the one that's been replaced is Porter - my growing concern has been somewhat abated, because it seems the manager really can see what I and many others see.

UTB
Click to expand...

With little real service and absolutely no quality there is no wonder we can't score goals. The reason why we are where we are is a recent history of chronic mis-investment. When you go through the Premiership and see players like Cahil, Jagielka, Walker, Naughton, Britton, Lowton and Dyer. Into the Championship and players like Henderson and Sharp, Tonge, Kenny, Stead and Cotterill. That's almost an entire team of players we have had in the past 6-7 years and as we slipped down the ladder we have had to let go. That's excluding Hulse and Beattie who have both consistently played at a higher level and have now retired.

If the above is the fracture we compounded it by replacing Warnock with Robson, with Blackwell, with Speed, with Adams, with Wilson, with Weir (Morgan for a point), with Clough. Now, not all of those are declining quality appointments I'll grant you but as a whole it reads like a horrible crime watch photo fit. On all occasions bar Speed we either appointed badly or let them go at entirely the wrong time in my opinion.

And you still maintain Porter is our biggest albatross? Really?
 
Bladesway said:
I would say we have been on a downward spiral ever since we signed Fathi, Seck and co, Doyle and Collins are just part of the overall Rammel we have bought over the years.



With little real service and absolutely no quality there is no wonder we can't score goals. The reason why we are where we are is a recent history of chronic mis-investment. When you go through the Premiership and see players like Cahil, Jagielka, Walker, Naughton, Britton, Lowton and Dyer. Into the Championship and players like Henderson and Sharp, Tonge, Kenny, Stead and Cotterill. That's almost an entire team of players we have had in the past 6-7 years and as we slipped down the ladder we have had to let go. That's excluding Hulse and Beattie who have both consistently played at a higher level and have now retired.

If the above is the fracture we compounded it by replacing Warnock with Robson, with Blackwell, with Speed, with Adams, with Wilson, with Weir (Morgan for a point), with Clough. Now, not all of those are declining quality appointments I'll grant you but as a whole it reads like a horrible crime watch photo fit. On all occasions bar Speed we either appointed badly or let them go at entirely the wrong time in my opinion.

And you still maintain Porter is our biggest albatross? Really?
Click to expand...

Good post Bladesway, It also crossed my mind, didn't we have, albeit on loan, Bardsley and Reid (oh for another player like this), and also Kilgallon too?

Suspect Speed saw the writing on the wall with McCabe, so jumped ship before it became clear that any promises made wouldn't be fulfilled.

Poor judgement at the very top just about captures where the buck stops, as well as misunderstanding what levels of funding were required to survive in the Prem. We appointed poorly and spent poorly. Not all the time of course, but when it looked like we might have the skeleton of a half-decent side it was dismantled before we could add flesh to it. When I think about what might have been it strikes me as a tragic mishandling of the supporter's expectations, but hey, we're just the fodder that pour money into the club's coffers and wonder what calamity will strike us next.....and I speak as one the generally more positive supporters of SUFC! UTB o_O
 

Bladesway said:
And you still maintain Porter is our biggest albatross? Really?
Click to expand...

Option A - Cure all the ills of the club
Option B - Buy a striker than can score goals in England's 3rd division to avoid relegation to the 4th.


I maintain that the realistic option we need to address right now is option B.

I'll consider Option A at the same time as addressing world hunger. :)

UTB
 
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