Will we ever learn?

[sitwell]

In an assault case there can only be a charge if the alleged victim gives a statement to the police. If he doesn't then there is no evidence on which to charge.

There is an exemption to this which I am sure you are aware of if you think about it.

 

[Darren]

There is an exemption to this which I am sure you are aware of if you think about it.

You have to prove that the victim did not consent on a common assault charge. Thus you need a statement from the victim saying that. In domestic violence cases, the CPS often try to get round that, but I can't see them doing that in a brawl in a bar, if this is what this is.

 

[DeepcarBlade]

You didn't live in Thurnscoe in the early 70's then Puppet. The police called it 'Dodge City' for a reason!

Things were just as bad then ..... probably worse!

 

[vorpal blade]

Answer to Edith Sitwell's quiz;

if the Police witness it?

 

[SwissBlade]

Your first post implied that he should be reprimanded and that he was a poor role model (though why on earth a teenager who plays football should be a role model for anyone escapes me).

I am assuming nothing. He might be completely innocent or guilty as sin. I don't know. What I am objecting to is the rush to condemn a young man who has been found guilty of nothing. Perhaps we should wait for the outcome of the court case.

Ok, so you thought I implied something, but I've since clarified what the point was that I was making and you're still assuming.

Yes the club should reprimand him... Initially for dragging the clubs name through the media again. Innocent or guilty I'm sick of players dragging the name of our club down. The clubs bad enough without this.

Perhaps people look at footballers as role models because its a step up from the legal trade

 

[Darren]

Ok, so you thought I implied something, but I've since clarified what the point was that I was making and you're still assuming.

Yes the club should reprimand him... Initially for dragging the clubs name through the media again. Innocent or guilty I'm sick of players dragging the name of our club down. The clubs bad enough without this.

Perhaps people look at footballers as role models because its a step up from the legal trade

So the principle of "innocent until proven guilty" is not one in which you believe. An accusation is good enough for someone to be reprimanded.

Fair enough.

 

[Selly]

So the principle of "innocent until proven guilty" is not one in which you believe. An accusation is good enough for someone to be reprimanded.

Fair enough.

I don`t think the accusation is teh issue here.

The issue is him being in that location at that time.

If the club have rules around this, and he has broken them, then he should be reprimanded.

If the club don`t, maybe they need to introduce some.

Either way, I have been out drinking many many times in my youth, and managed to not get arrested, or involved in anything unsavoury, on a single occasion. Is it really that hard to keep your head down???

 

[SwissBlade]

I don`t think the accusation is teh issue here.

The issue is him being in that location at that time.

If the club have rules around this, and he has broken them, then he should be reprimanded.

If the club don`t, maybe they need to introduce some.

Either way, I have been out drinking many many times in my youth, and managed to not get arrested, or involved in anything unsavoury, on a single occasion. Is it really that hard to keep your head down???

Precisely this!

 

[SwissBlade]

So the principle of "innocent until proven guilty" is not one in which you believe. An accusation is good enough for someone to be reprimanded.

Fair enough.

As I've said before on this thread it's not about the alleged crime or his innocence or guilt, it's about putting himself in places where there could be issues....

 

[Darren]

I don`t think the accusation is teh issue here.

The issue is him being in that location at that time.

If the club have rules around this, and he has broken them, then he should be reprimanded.

If the club don`t, maybe they need to introduce some.

Either way, I have been out drinking many many times in my youth, and managed to not get arrested, or involved in anything unsavoury, on a single occasion. Is it really that hard to keep your head down???

True story. I had a bloke once was arrested for a serious knifing incident at a pub in Leyton. He was in his forties had no previous and a mental age of 10. He was the most gentle man imaginable and when I met him I thought there was no way he could be a stabber. He was a regular at the pub in question and was spotted by a witness a week after the attack, who called the police and he was arrested. The police put him on an ID parade, the victims picked him out, he was charged and convicted.

His defence was that there was another bloke in the locality, who was a well known thug who looked really like him and he must have done the stabbing. I thought "yeah right". That sounded extremely unlikely. My chap did not want his family involved at first as he felt so ashamed at being arrested. After he was convicted, the family got involved, used their local contacts, got a photo of the other guy and lo and behold he was the spitting image of my chap. We did an appeal and my guy got out.

That's why I am very loathe to assume someone must be guilty because they got "into trouble" and were arrested. I have also never been arrested on my nights out but in my line of work I get lots of people who are arrested and who are innocent.

 

[super_pig]

The point I'm making as I said before is not about innocence or guilt, but not allowing oneself to be in a position where flash points occur.

perhaps he should live in a bubble like Michael Jackson?? how do you know where a flash point will occur.. last time i was in Bradda there was a huge kick off and that's in the midlle of bloody nowhere .. do we think they will play better if we force them to live like monks??.. serious question

 

[Darren]

As I've said before on this thread it's not about the alleged crime or his innocence or guilt, it's about putting himself in places where there could be issues....

What, you mean like a pub?

Should he just stay at home playing Monopoly with his gran?

 

[SwissBlade]

What, you mean like a pub?

Should he just stay at home playing Monopoly with his gran?

No. Read my previous posts - which you replied to. I said it's about assessing risks in the places they go and the people they hang out with.

And the club should set the rules

 

[Darren]

No. Read my previous posts - which you replied to. I said it's about assessing risks in the places they go and the people they hang out with.

And the club should set the rules

So how do you know he went to somewhere where he should have know that there was a risk of trouble?

 

[super_pig]

No. Read my previous posts - which you replied to. I said it's about assessing risks in the places they go and the people they hang out with.

i think i'd never get out of the house

 

[SwissBlade]

perhaps he should live in a bubble like Michael Jackson?? how do you know where a flash point will occur.. last time i was in Bradda there was a huge kick off and that's in the midlle of bloody nowhere .. do we think they will play better if we force them to live like monks??.. serious question

Again, it's about risk assessments, but seeing as though Madine got into trouble nearby there I'd suggest it's not the best place for him to be.

It's not hard to know where the trouble kicks off

I got into some bother years ago outside Berlins. I knew there was a chance of trouble down there but went down there anyway with my football team. We never had any bother. I went there another time with my sister and her boyfriend and ended up getting a kicking. Wasnt my fault, I literally just walked out and got a kicking by some lads. I knew the risks, took them anyway and I had to start a new job in an office with cuts on my face and two black eyes. I was daft enough to go there.

On the other hand I've been in other places which seemed ok, but I'm sure they've also had their trouble too. I accept that.

But when places are glaringly obvious hot spots then why take that risk, go to better places - you're lively hood might depend on it!

 

[Ted Danson]

So how do you know he went to somewhere where he should have know that there was a risk of trouble?

Because it was the same place that Madine did his assaults, I work bang opposite the Viper rooms and every Monday theres a fresh pile of blood on the doorstep either coming from Babylon or Viper rooms, if troubles going to happen anywhere in town Id say Carver st was the best bet for it and that's common knowledge.

 

[JJ Sefton]

Trouble
Oh trouble set me free
I have seen your face
And it's too much too much for me

- Cat Stevens

 

[Darren]

Because it was the same place that Madine did his assaults, I work bang opposite the Viper rooms and every Monday theres a fresh pile of blood on the doorstep either coming from Babylon or Viper rooms, if troubles going to happen anywhere in town Id say Carver st was the best bet for it and that's common knowledge.

But isn't it case that anywhere you mix young men and alochol there is going to be a risk of trouble? Why is this particular place more trouble prone than any other?

 

[VespaBlade]

Either way, I have been out drinking many many times in my youth, and managed to not get arrested, or involved in anything unsavoury, on a single occasion. Is it really that hard to keep your head down???

Yeah but I doubt that you were known as a minor footballing celebrity in a City Centre which houses 2 teams which don't like each other much.
I am not saying that it wasn't his fault, or that it was down to him being a footballer.
It might of been but I suggest it is harder to keep your head down.

He's a young lad out for a drink around the city he lives in....
Everyone has done it.

He might now of realised he can't get away with going out now- he might of been out 100's of times with no problem.

 

[VespaBlade]

Precisely this!

But if there is no club rules what has he done wrong being there??
It's not like he's Wayne Rooney and everyone knows him. He's a third division reservist.

 

[VespaBlade]

It's not hard to know where the trouble kicks off

I got into some bother years ago outside Berlins. I knew there was a chance of trouble down there but went down there anyway with my football team. We never had any bother. I went there another time with my sister and her boyfriend and ended up getting a kicking. Wasnt my fault, I literally just walked out and got a kicking by some lads. I knew the risks, took them anyway

On the other hand I've been in other places which seemed ok, but I'm sure they've also had their trouble too. I accept that.

But when places are glaringly obvious hot spots then why take that risk, go to better places - you're lively hood might depend on it!

Sorry Swiss but he can't win can he..........................

 

[raul]

I got into some bother years ago outside Berlins. I knew there was a chance of trouble down there but went down there anyway with my football team. We never had any bother. I went there another time with my sister and her boyfriend and ended up getting a kicking. Wasnt my fault, I literally just walked out and got a kicking by some lads. I knew the risks, took them anyway and I had to start a new job in an office with cuts on my face and two black eyes. I was daft enough to go there.

!

Was it your Sister or her boyfriend who was overheard calling you "Swissblade"??...

 

[Ted Danson]

But isn't it case that anywhere you mix young men and alochol there is going to be a risk of trouble? Why is this particular place more trouble prone than any other?

Maybe the clientele are slightly younger on Carver st or dare I say from the wrong end of town, I dont ever go drinking down there so cant say for definite but Ive always known that theres lots less trouble up near the green room than down the other end where Viper rooms and Westways are. It could be there that is the market share that these places are aiming for especially Westways, reflex and babylon, which are all complete dives but always full.

If bad types of people hang out in places for long enough they attract other bad types of people and soon the place gets a name for that type of people and the nicer people stop coming then its all baduns

 

[Darren]

Maybe the clientele are slightly younger on Carver st or dare I say from the wrong end of town, I dont ever go drinking down there so cant say for definite but Ive always known that theres lots less trouble up near the green room than down the other end where Viper rooms and Westways are. It could be there that is the market share that these places are aiming for especially Westways, reflex and babylon, which are all complete dives but always full.

If bad types of people hang out in places for long enough they attract other bad types of people and soon the place gets a name for that type of people and the nicer people stop coming then its all baduns

The bottom line is CM is a 19 year old man. I don't know the guy, but he doesn't strike me as being one for staying home playing games with his gran or studying for a degree part time. I suspect a large part of his leisure activity is going out drinking with his mates. Like thousands of other young men of his age. The club can give him all the lectures they want about staying out of trouble, but staying he can't go out to certain places is just wrong in my view.

As is this idea that he should be "reprimanded" when no-one actually knows if he has done anything wrong. Say it's a completely malicious allegation by a Wednesday fan? Would he deserve to be reprimanded for having such an allegation made against him?

 

[Ted Danson]

No, he shouldnt be reprimanded,I agree with you Darren but I can see that certain places are known to be riskier than others and the club could give them warnings about certain places.

A friend of mine whos a small little blond girl got glassed in Viper rooms the other week for bumping into a guy on the dance floor, the bouncers acted like it was a very regular occurrence.

 

[SwissBlade]

But if there is no club rules what has he done wrong being there??
It's not like he's Wayne Rooney and everyone knows him. He's a third division reservist.

That's my point. The club should set some rules.

Doesn't anyone read any of the posts?

 

[Selly]

That's my point. The club should set some rules.

Doesn't anyone read any of the posts?

No one has said it yet, but I think the club should set some rules.

 

[metalblade]

You might ask why a young guy with aspirations of being a "professional athlete" would be out in the early hours drinking alcohol no matter where or who with ? Does he really want to be a professional or does he just want to piss his earnings up a wall. The club don't need to make any choices the player is quite old enough to do that himself and at the moment night clubbing is the wrong choice, he says he learns from his brother maybe he needs to look a bit closer could these antics be the reason his brother never made it at the lane and lost years out of a career in football ?

 

[sitwell]

Thanks Darren and Lsf for not breaking my confidence in this ,I don't think it is my place to bring all the details out in the open but safe to say in this case the club could do nothing about it and the location has nothing to do with it whatsoever. It does make you realise how quick people are to jump to conclusions though.