Incoming? Carl Rushworth

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Verbruggen is injured, so this might be an issue?
 
Millhousesblade1889 said:
Its a good signing if we pull it off, but we desperately need to get some permanents in. We've lost 17 players, we cant have another summer where 5 players return to their parent club and we're scrambling around for a squad to play a pre-season friendly.
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Think new owners and JTW, let's get safety in the top half for now👍
 
Millhousesblade1889 said:
Its a good signing if we pull it off, but we desperately need to get some permanents in. We've lost 17 players, we cant have another summer where 5 players return to their parent club and we're scrambling around for a squad to play a pre-season friendly.
Click to expand...

At the same time bringing in players on permanents just for the sake of it does nothing but bloat the wage bill
 
jt64 said:
At the same time bringing in players on permanents just for the sake of it does nothing but bloat the wage bill
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The wage bill that's not currently bloated as we've sold/released 14 players, only signed 5 and the remaining all have relegation pay cut clauses in their contracts.

Bloated is not the word I'd use.
 
Tony_Kaufman said:
The wage bill that's not currently bloated as we've sold/released 14 players, only signed 5 and the remaining all have relegation pay cut clauses in their contracts.

Bloated is not the word I'd use.
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If we sign players who do not improve the first team because "need depth!" and "must rebuild!" then what does it do other than bloat the wage bill?
 
Millhousesblade1889 said:
Its a good signing if we pull it off, but we desperately need to get some permanents in. We've lost 17 players, we cant have another summer where 5 players return to their parent club and we're scrambling around for a squad to play a pre-season friendly.
Click to expand...
Agree to an extent. We’ve fucked about with loan keepers for years seemingly now. I’d much rather we just got cooper on a permanent deal.
 

Millhousesblade1889 said:
It’s a good signing if we pull it off, but we desperately need to get some permanents in. We've lost 17 players, we cant have another summer where 5 players return to their parent club and we're scrambling around for a squad to play a pre-season friendly.
Click to expand...
Of the 17 lost as you say, how many are a real ‘loss’
Excluding loans as that’s beyond our control

Bogle
Traore
McBurnie
Baldock
Lowe
Osborn
Jebbo
Wes
egan
Norwood
Bash
Ammisah

I would say only Bogle should be classed as a loss that we should be gutted about, maybe Baldock but age is catching up and can’t deny him his move

Quality not quantity

Happy with Moore, Burrows, oHare

Winger, GK, forward plus a couple of others and we’re stronger and leaner
 
steve26272 said:
Of the 17 lost as you say, how many are a real ‘loss’
Excluding loans as that’s beyond our control

Bogle
Traore
McBurnie
Baldock
Lowe
Osborn
Jebbo
Wes
egan
Norwood
Bash
Ammisah

I would say only Bogle should be classed as a loss that we should be gutted about, maybe Baldock but age is catching up and can’t deny him his move

Quality not quantity

Happy with Moore, Burrows, oHare

Winger, GK, forward plus a couple of others and we’re stronger and leaner
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My comment was we need some permanents, I think the club needed a reset. I’m pretty happy that most of that list have left us to be honest.

As we speak current squad vs previous squad id say we could have done with Wes, McBurnie, Jebbo & Bogle from that list. All the rest I’m fine with them going. The only reason i mention Wes is he’s better than the other two we have right now - The others mentioned is due to a lack of depth in their positions.

IMO we still need 1 or 2 quality long term contract players who have resale value. Burrows, Ohare, McCallum all have that. Cooper would also have that.
 
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I used to think we need permanent signings, some to call your own.

But the truth is somewhere in between. You simply need to arrive at the best possible team you can, whether you own them or not.

What was the difference having Wes for a few years and owning him than say Henderson for 2 years on loan? Both came for no money, we paid their wages and they left for no money.

We had Osula on contract until 2027. The next shirt he’ll pull on is that of Newcastle United.

But in contract players have resale value don’t they?

Well yes, but it’s hardly guaranteed. Some of our biggest fails have been as a result of signing perm players:

We signed Berge for 22m. He left at a loss of around 7m.

We signed McBurnie for 17m and possibly rising. He left at the end of his contract for nothing.

We signed a deal for 23.5m for Brewster and in all likelihood there will be nil return on that too.

So, of course, young players we develop should be contracted so we can benefit from the fruits of our labours such as Osula or Ndiaye for instance.

But no need to be obsessed with it. Remember Jebbo and Osula were to be our next Deane and Agana for years to come?!

Just get the best team you can.

As John Maynard Keynes once said, in the long term, we’re all dead!
 
Champagneblade said:
I used to think we need permanent signings, some to call your own.

But the truth is somewhere in between. You simply need to arrive at the best possible team you can, whether you own them or not.

What was the difference having Wes for a few years and owning him than say Henderson for 2 years on loan? Both came for no money, we paid their wages and they left for no money.

We had Osula on contract until 2027. The next shirt he’ll pull on is that of Newcastle United.

But in contract players have resale value don’t they?

Well yes, but it’s hardly guaranteed. Some of our biggest fails have been as a result of signing perm players:

We signed Berge for 22m. He left at a loss of around 7m.

We signed McBurnie for 17m and possibly rising. He left at the end of his contract for nothing.

We signed a deal for 23.5m for Brewster and in all likelihood there will be nil return on that too.

So, of course, young players we develop should be contracted so we can benefit from the fruits of our labours such as Osula or Ndiaye for instance.

But no need to be obsessed with it. Remember Jebbo and Osula were to be our next Deane and Agana for years to come?!

Just get the best team you can.

As John Maynard Keynes once said, in the long term, we’re all dead!
Click to expand...

One of the most sensible posts I've read in a long time 👌
 
Not sure I agree with loans….agree we need the best team possible, however we’ve had enough quality players purchased that should have been sold for a profit.
We simply have been unlucky with injury, certainly with Berge, McB and Brewster.

The only one I’d argue was a huge risk at the time was Brewster….we were effectively paying big money for someone who’d had half a season in the champ, and had already had a bad injury. Compare the fee we paid…which I doubt will get anywhere close to the £23m btw due to him not making the add on incentives, but will be at least £15-18m…to Osula who we are selling.
Of the two, if side by side and for sale now at the same age…Brewster at Liverpool and Osula here…which would you say was the better buy? The lower risk?

Loans should be used to add that extra bit of quality to an already decent squad, not be brought in just to make a competitive squad.
I fear we will be in a position certainly by the end of the next window that half the outfield positions will be loans, and that isn’t sound for business as they can cost the same as a transfer fee.
Sooner buy the best from around us and the leagues below/Europe and invest those loan fees into developing the scouting network to get the purchases right!
 
Grizzly blade said:
Not sure I agree with loans….agree we need the best team possible, however we’ve had enough quality players purchased that should have been sold for a profit.
We simply have been unlucky with injury, certainly with Berge, McB and Brewster.

The only one I’d argue was a huge risk at the time was Brewster….we were effectively paying big money for someone who’d had half a season in the champ, and had already had a bad injury. Compare the fee we paid…which I doubt will get anywhere close to the £23m btw due to him not making the add on incentives, but will be at least £15-18m…to Osula who we are selling.
Of the two, if side by side and for sale now at the same age…Brewster at Liverpool and Osula here…which would you say was the better buy? The lower risk?

Loans should be used to add that extra bit of quality to an already decent squad, not be brought in just to make a competitive squad.
I fear we will be in a position certainly by the end of the next window that half the outfield positions will be loans, and that isn’t sound for business as they can cost the same as a transfer fee.
Sooner buy the best from around us and the leagues below/Europe and invest those loan fees into developing the scouting network to get the purchases right!
Click to expand...
The scale of the rebuild meant that it was never going to be done in one or two transfer windows. It will happen incrementally, and we have made a good start given the circumstances we are in.

Loans were always going to be a necessity in this window, but we need to wean ourselves off an over reliance on them in the next couple of windows. Its fine at the moment though.
 

Champagneblade said:
I used to think we need permanent signings, some to call your own.

But the truth is somewhere in between. You simply need to arrive at the best possible team you can, whether you own them or not.

What was the difference having Wes for a few years and owning him than say Henderson for 2 years on loan? Both came for no money, we paid their wages and they left for no money.

We had Osula on contract until 2027. The next shirt he’ll pull on is that of Newcastle United.

But in contract players have resale value don’t they?

Well yes, but it’s hardly guaranteed. Some of our biggest fails have been as a result of signing perm players:

We signed Berge for 22m. He left at a loss of around 7m.

We signed McBurnie for 17m and possibly rising. He left at the end of his contract for nothing.

We signed a deal for 23.5m for Brewster and in all likelihood there will be nil return on that too.

So, of course, young players we develop should be contracted so we can benefit from the fruits of our labours such as Osula or Ndiaye for instance.

But no need to be obsessed with it. Remember Jebbo and Osula were to be our next Deane and Agana for years to come?!

Just get the best team you can.

As John Maynard Keynes once said, in the long term, we’re all dead!
Click to expand...
6/7 permanents & 4 loans is something I’m absolutely fine with. Keep buying & bringing top academy graduates in like Jebbo, NDiaye, Brooks, Arblaster, Osula. A few of those will end up going before we get chance to see the best of them but that is such a good financial foundation to build on.
 
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