Formation decided

[Bergen Blade]

Through interviews and Weir's first couple of line ups it seems he favours a 4-2-3-1 formation, with McDonald in the advanced midfield role.

What changes are required to have a team and squad that's well equipped to play this system? Where do we need more back up? Any current players that will find it hard to adapt from the past few year's 4-4-2?

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

It will suit our current full-backs, but I'm not sure about our wide players. they make us effectively 4-5-1 when we don't have the ball and 4-2-4 when we are attacking. We may need extra cover out there, for the demanding role. It also means McDonald has to do a bit of work to make the formation as fluid as I suggested, as the idea is not to get swamped in midfield without the ball and 4-4-1-1 is ok but not as secure as 4-5-1.

 

[Balham]

I disagree SouthEssexBlade, I don't think it suits our current full backs. We can only play one of McMahon, Hill and Higginbotham (the latter two I'd only use as CB cover, to be honest). What's McGinty like in an attacking sense? Also: I've said it before and I'll say it again: I think Ryan Flynn would make an excellent right back.

Playing McDonald further forward could work if he has mobile forwards to try and find with the ball but there's a danger that he will drop deeper and deeper if he doesn't get the ball.

Up front I'd like to see Miller through the middle when he's fit as I don't think Porter's mobile enough to play anywhere but in a front two. I've nothing against Porter; that's just how I see it.

This formation will play to the strengths of Collins and Maguire at centre half, Doyle in central midfield and Brandy, McFadzean and Murphy on the wings. Not sure about the rest.

 

[UnitedBlade]

We still need a good striker to play the one up front role. Despite Porter's 2 goals so far he isn't good enough. I would also worry about enough goals from the 4 in midfield. Could Miller play up front on his own ? Weir won't know until he's fully fit.

However, once Diego is fit, the formation will be perfect for him.

Here's hoping it works, I'm not prepared to watch the dull crap we saw after Christmas. Something has to change.

 

[cooperblade]

First thought is there might be some value in backing McDonald to score first in the first few weeks!

That formation should suit Jamie Murphy - don't think he coped well with the defensive responsibilities of playing wide in a 4 and left his full back exposed quite a lot. Hopefully he gets a bit more cover from having 2 holding players.

I think Porter can do well as a lone front man although in an ideal world we'd have someone equally good in the air, with the same willingness to work hard but a couple of yards quicker.

The holding midfield two will need to get the right sort of balls into McDonald, Brandy and Murphy - hopefully McGinn can do well in this regard.

I think we'll still need the full backs to get forward more than they did last season. They should help to link the back 6 with the front 4 - we didn't have enough movement between the lines last season. This formation should help somewhat in that regard but we still need more movement to support that.

One area where I expect us to do well next season is at attacking set pieces. McGinty was a big threat for Tranmere last season and, if he gets starts, I think defending teams will struggle to cope with him, Collins, Maguire and Porter.

 

[UnitedBlade]

Good point on set pieces. Surely we can't be as bad as the last 3 seasons or so.

If Weir could sort out free kicks and corners ...........

 

[Revolution]

Through interviews and Weir's first couple of line ups it seems he favours a 4-2-3-1 formation, with McDonald in the advanced midfield role.

What changes are required to have a team and squad that's well equipped to play this system?

The addition of a forward and at least 2 midfielders who can actually score goals. Otherwise it is going to turn into the first half of 2010/11. With poor players, that formation is really 4-5-1.

As I asked at the start of that season - who is going to score the goals this year?

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

I disagree SouthEssexBlade, I don't think it suits our current full backs. We can only play one of McMahon, Hill and Higginbotham (the latter two I'd only use as CB cover, to be honest). What's McGinty like in an attacking sense? Also: I've said it before and I'll say it again: I think Ryan Flynn would make an excellent right back.

It suits the full-backs in the sense that they don't have to get forward as much with this system. If you have quick full-backs like Baines and Walker then yes they can bomb on and make you 3 and 3 up front with the formation, but with our full-back availability it seems a sensible option to go 4-2-3-1.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

This is very similar to the kind of setup Holloway had when he took Blackpool up with KMac being our 'Charlie Adam' (I'll leave that open for further discussion ). They had Crainey and Coleman as full backs in that team who both got forward regularly.

It does require plenty of fluidity, not to mention energy from the players but I do think that Brandy and Murphy would do well in a front three. What we're missing is a midfielder to play the David Vaughan 'knitting it all together role', alongside KMac and Doyle, maybe McGinn is the one ?

 

[Dnblade]

For me if we're going to play 4231,I 'd have McDonald in a deep lying playmaker role alongside a defensive Midfielder like Doyle,or a more box to box type like Whitehouse maybe.Playing deeper he would be able to set up play and leave options to use players with more of a goal threat further forward...we've got plenty of creativity further forward with Mcginn and Brandy anyway,so McD deep for me.I agree we need more mobile Full Backs to get up in support and provide width so I'd stick with Westlake for now unless the young lad Hodder is up to it,then try McFadzean as a left back.
Maybe set up something like..
Long
Westlake,Maguire,McGinty,McFadzean
Doyle,McDonald
Brandy,Mcginn,Murphy
Porter

Doyle's not ideal I know but maybe Whitehorse or Mcginn could play there,although I see them more as attacking midfielders.

 

[KenMcnaughtsNuts]

Not convinced 4231 even exists. 451 in my book.

The one thing i wanted was Murphy not to be on the wing. He's never looked like a winger yet for us. If we play like this it seems to consign him to the wing, i'd much rather have McDonald and McGinn in the centre and Murphy as the more attacking central option. To be honest i'd rather stick with the traditional 442 and have Murphy up front left to his own devices as to when he wants to drop into midfield and when he wants to get forward. Be a more fluid way of achieving essentially the same formation. Obviously that would bin Doyle, but it's a sacrifice i'd be prepared to make.

 

[Balham]

Not convinced 4231 even exists. 451 in my book.

I don't think I would say that Bayern's line up which destroyed Barcelona in last season's European Cup was a 4-5-1:

Neuer​

Lahm...Dante....Boateng....Alaba​

Martínez....Schweinsteiger​

Robben................Mueller................Ribéry​

Gomez​

It's pretty much the same for Barcelona, Real Madrid, Borussia Dortmund, Manchester United, Arsenal, Chelsea, Newcastle, Swansea, Paris SG, AC Milan...

...so every top side in Europe, pretty much.

The key is mindset of the '3' - attacking players should play here, not midfielders - and the fitness and mobility of all the players, something we've been really lacking in recent seasons.

 

[KenMcnaughtsNuts]

I don't think I would say that Bayern's line up which destroyed Barcelona in last season's European Cup was a 4-5-1:

Neuer​

Lahm...Dante....Boateng....Alaba​

Martínez....Schweinsteiger​

Robben................Mueller................Ribéry​

Gomez​

It's pretty much the same for Barcelona, Real Madrid, Borussia Dortmund, Manchester United, Arsenal, Chelsea, Newcastle, Swansea, Paris SG, AC Milan...

...so every top side in Europe, pretty much.

The key is mindset of the '3' - attacking players should play here, not midfielders - and the fitness and mobility of all the players, something we've been really lacking in recent seasons.

Like i said, 451. If we're calling it a 4231 cos 3 of the midfielders are attacking ones, why not go the whole hog and call it a 2-2-2-2-1-1? 2 of the defenders, ie the full-backs, are more often than not essentially attacking defenders. Lol anyway whatever you call it, it's still a 451 in my book. When you play like that, 3 of the midfielders are almost inevitably attacking ones, unless you're trying to hold out for a 0-0 every game. I get that calling it a 4-2-3-1 distinguishes is from all the other variations of a 4-5-1. But it's still a 4-5-1 to me. I'm old alright. Leave me alone.

 

[Balham]

Like i said, 451. If we're calling it a 4231 cos 3 of the midfielders are attacking ones, why not go the whole hog and call it a 2-2-2-2-1-1? 2 of the defenders, ie the full-backs, are more often than not essentially attacking defenders. Lol anyway whatever you call it, it's still a 451 in my book. When you play like that, 3 of the midfielders are almost inevitably attacking ones, unless you're trying to hold out for a 0-0 every game. I get that calling it a 4-2-3-1 distinguishes is from all the other variations of a 4-5-1. But it's still a 4-5-1 to me. I'm old alright. Leave me alone.

I'd call it more a 4-2-4 (proper old school!) or 4-3-3. Kevin Blackwell and Neil Warnock were exponents of the defensive 4-5-1 and it was generally dire to watch, with 10 Blades in our half and a lumbering striker 20 yards from everyone else up front. I hope Weir chooses the attacking style.

 

[Guesty]

Much as I don't like Murphy on the wing I think he'd be even worse in the centre, especially playing deeper. He hasn't got good enough ball control to be a winger when you can just kick and rush past defenders, he certainly hasn't got the touch required to play behind the forward where it's far more crowded.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

I'd call it more a 4-2-4 (proper old school!) or 4-3-3. Kevin Blackwell and Neil Warnock were exponents of the defensive 4-5-1 and it was generally dire to watch, with 10 Blades in our half and a lumbering striker 20 yards from everyone else up front. I hope Weir chooses the attacking style.

Blackwell maybe but Warnock only really played 4-5-1 against Premiership teams in Cup Semi Finals and once he’d got us promoted to the Premier League.
The 2002-2003 Play-off finalists were very entertaining and certainly played 4-4-2.
The 2005-2006 promotion team also played 4-4-2 and had no shortage of attacking flair.

 

[Darren]

Blackwell maybe but Warnock only really played 4-5-1 against Premiership teams in Cup Semi Finals and once he’d got us promoted to the Premier League.
The 2002-2003 Play-off finalists were very entertaining and certainly played 4-4-2.
The 2005-2006 promotion team also played 4-4-2 and had no shortage of attacking flair.

The 4-5-1 that played against Arsenal in 2003 was rather wonderful. If I remember right, the team was

Kenny

Curtis
Jagielka
Page
Kozluk

Kabba
Brown
McCall
Tonge
Ndlovu

Allison

In the second half if was more of a 4-3-3 with Kabba and Ndlovu effectively playing up front (Asaba and Peschosolido then came on and we reverted to 4-4-2).

 

[puppet]

Good memory Darren, bang on

 

[BladeFisher]

The 4-5-1 that played against Arsenal in 2003 was rather wonderful. If I remember right, the team was

Kenny

Curtis
Jagielka
Page
Kozluk

Kabba
Brown
McCall
Tonge
Ndlovu

Allison

In the second half if was more of a 4-3-3 with Kabba and Ndlovu effectively playing up front (Asaba and Peschosolido then came on and we reverted to 4-4-2).

Best defeat I ever saw, if you can have a 'best defeat'. Only FA Cup semi-final I thought we have ever turned up in.

 

[stannyblade]

Best defeat I ever saw, if you can have a 'best defeat'. Only FA Cup semi-final I thought we have ever turned up in.

We were robbed.
All together now
Oh Graham Poll
is a F##king Arsehole.

 

[DazBlade88]

We were so unlucky that day, by far the best we've played on a big occassion. Seaman came up with the best save I've ever seen, and probably will ever see. I still don't know to this day how he managed to get to it!

EDIT: And I really liked Wayne Allison. He was very limited but didn't half do a good job for us. I can't believe he only scored 7 league goals in the time he was here, thought he'd scored a lot more than that!

 

[Balham]

EDIT: And I really liked Wayne Allison. He was very limited but didn't half do a good job for us. I can't believe he only scored 7 league goals in the time he was here, thought he'd scored a lot more than that!

He scored against Wednesday and as with Laurent D'Jaffo, that raises his status dramatically. He was a great foil for (pre-knee injury) Steven Kabba too.

 

[Darren]

We were so unlucky that day, by far the best we've played on a big occassion. Seaman came up with the best save I've ever seen, and probably will ever see. I still don't know to this day how he managed to get to it!

EDIT: And I really liked Wayne Allison. He was very limited but didn't half do a good job for us. I can't believe he only scored 7 league goals in the time he was here, thought he'd scored a lot more than that!

Agree about Allison. A random memory of him is him being rested for the last regular game of the season at Watford in 2003 and chatting to the United fans before the game. Someone offered him an American Indian chief headdress to wear, which he politely declined....

 

[Sothall_Blade]

He scored against Wednesday and as with Laurent D'Jaffo, that raises his status dramatically. He was a great foil for (pre-knee injury) Steven Kabba too.

But surely Allison would have Warnock's "lone lumbering striker" and Kabba would have been "at least 20 yards away in a 10 man defence"

 

[Guesty]

I had a long running argument with a friend of mine who thought Ashley Ward was the superior player. I remember Ward playing out of his skin against Leeds at home(2-0, Ward and Harley) but other than that Allison offered more. That Sky game at Gillingham for instance. And as Balham said, that tap in against Wednesday!

And by tap in I of course mean 'magnificent thunderbolt'.

 

[Balham]

But surely Allison would have Warnock's "lone lumbering striker" and Kabba would have been "at least 20 yards away in a 10 man defence"

I know that was tongue-in-cheek but I didn't mean to suggest that Warnock was exclusively a 4-5-1 man. He was when he chose to be, particularly when trying to shoehorn Paul Shaw into the side.

Blackwell was far worse for it: play off final 2009 anyone?

I had a long running argument with a friend of mine who thought Ashley Ward was the superior player. I remember Ward playing out of his skin against Leeds at home(2-0, Ward and Harley) but other than that Allison offered more. That Sky game at Gillingham for instance. And as Balham said, that tap in against Wednesday!

And by tap in I of course mean 'magnificent thunderbolt'.

Ashley Ward - the epitome of the footballer who had lost interest in the game.

Allison's goal against Wednesday wasn't quite a "magnificent thunderbolt" - that accolade is reserved exclusively for the Michaels, Brown and Tonge in my view - but it was the final statement in asserting our superiority over them and in front of a sea of squealing Wendies. That 3-1 is still my favourite game as a Blade; under the lights, thinking it was going to be another one of those days when Quinn put them in front (running onto his own through ball?!) after a string of saves from the pieman's friend, Kevin Pressman. Then up stepped (jumped) McCall to nudge the ball into the path of Kabba for 1-1. Then Brown swung his right boot. Then Kabba danced round the Wednesday defence before Allison finished it off from 2 yards out. I've never felt so good walking out of the Lane.

Still remember overhearing a delusional grunter in the West End after the game: "we won on away goals". Tosser.

 

[Guesty]

McCall winning the ball for Kabba's equaliser was extraordinary. That and Kabba's contortion to finish turned the game around I think, the special little kick needed to change it from 'one of those days' to a decisive win.

 

[KenMcnaughtsNuts]

I'd call it more a 4-2-4 (proper old school!) or 4-3-3. Kevin Blackwell and Neil Warnock were exponents of the defensive 4-5-1 and it was generally dire to watch, with 10 Blades in our half and a lumbering striker 20 yards from everyone else up front. I hope Weir chooses the attacking style.

Don't go calling it a 4-2-4, you'll give some people heart attacks round these parts!

 

[stannyblade]

That 3-1 is still my favourite game as a Blade

The Bobby Davison show at Swillsborough was a better 3-1 IMO what a night

 

[CG Blade]

The Bobby Davison show at Swillsborough was a better 3-1 IMO what a night

I agree!