CONFIRMED Louie Marsh signs a new contract and loaned to Doncaster Rovers

[Lightsoot]

It's in the club accounts, it's not me saying it. Where else would the money come from?

I'll repeat myself: O'connell, Henderson, Blackman, Brooks, Dowell, Ampadu, Ramsdale, Baldock, Bryan.

You've lost the argument and have had to resort to ad hominem and other unnecessary nonsense. Post not poster.

Really? With the exception of Brooks all of them either a) never made it with United or b) were already established players (granted at a lower league level).

Surely the true barometer of how well Wilder developed them is where those players are today??

- Henderson was / is at Man Utd and had a successful loan at Shrewsbury. Wilder gave him a step up but he was already a player.

- Ramsdale - seriously, Wilder can’t take any credit for where he is now, surely?

- Blackman - you’re taking the piss

- Brooks - ok, shame David left and became very ill. Great to see him back.

- JOC - maybe, yes, could have played for England till his sad injury. Wilder’s system say him flourish.

- Baldock - established already. Great player but did Wilder make him any better?

- Dowell - bounced around, loan after loan. So good we didn’t sign him.

- Ampadu - Chelsea’s player and wank for us. Only Wales mass him look decent.

- Bryan ??? Nurse!!!!

Thank you. Always a pleasure.

 

[BladeInIreland]

Really? With the exception of Brooks all of them either a) never made it with United or b) were already established players (granted at a lower league level).

Surely the true barometer of how well Wilder developed them is where those players are today??

- Henderson was / is at Man Utd and had a successful loan at Shrewsbury. Wilder gave him a step up but he was already a player.

- Ramsdale - seriously, Wilder can’t take any credit for where he is now, surely?

- Blackman - you’re taking the piss

- Brooks - ok, shame David left and became very ill. Great to see him back.

- JOC - maybe, yes, could have played for England till his sad injury. Wilder’s system say him flourish.

- Baldock - established already. Great player but did Wilder make him any better?

- Dowell - bounced around, loan after loan. So good we didn’t sign him.

- Ampadu - Chelsea’s player and wank for us. Only Wales mass him look decent.

- Bryan ??? Nurse!!!!

Thank you. Always a pleasure.

Not looking to get involved in this argument as a whole but re. George Baldock I think he credited wilder for putting the furious in furious George which is how he has become an excellent player. Wilder definitely developed George.

 

[robbiez666]

DCL started pre season games and was then sold. Ramsdale played in the Cup and featured on the bench. Slater featured in pre season and cup games and simply wasn't goid enough to warrant more minutes. Brooks was played by Wilder. The one I'm wrong on is Gordon. My instinct told me it was Wilder that gave him his first run.out but it was probably a different player. There was also a young forward given his head by Wilder whose name escapes me.

It's a total myth. A falsehood oft repeated is still a falsehood. I think I've more than demonstrated that. The reason the better academy graduates didn't play more is really simple: they were sold to fund the club


Adams was still a young player when he played prior to his sale. The claim is that Wilder didn't play young players, not that he didn't play our young academy players or the young players he signed. Baldock could possibly be added to the list, although 24 might be pushing 'young'.

It's laughable to say Wilder brought young talent through. The only player he brought through was Brooks and he wanted to loan him to Chesterfield until he persuaded otherwise.

Hecky has given twice as many Academy players debuts in half the time.

 

[Weasel]

Wilder never really trusted the young uns. He stuck with experienced players. Still he was right to do so. But PH has clearly been more approachable to playing younger player.

 

[nopigfansintown]

Really? With the exception of Brooks all of them either a) never made it with United or b) were already established players (granted at a lower league level).

Surely the true barometer of how well Wilder developed them is where those players are today??

- Henderson was / is at Man Utd and had a successful loan at Shrewsbury. Wilder gave him a step up but he was already a player.

- Ramsdale - seriously, Wilder can’t take any credit for where he is now, surely?

- Blackman - you’re taking the piss

- Brooks - ok, shame David left and became very ill. Great to see him back.

- JOC - maybe, yes, could have played for England till his sad injury. Wilder’s system say him flourish.

- Baldock - established already. Great player but did Wilder make him any better?

- Dowell - bounced around, loan after loan. So good we didn’t sign him.

- Ampadu - Chelsea’s player and wank for us. Only Wales mass him look decent.

- Bryan ??? Nurse!!!!

Thank you. Always a pleasure.

With the exception of Ampadu all of them probably enhanced their reputations under Wilder. Where Wilder left or took those players is the barometer imo.

Bryan got a big move to West Brom post United. His two previous loans pre United were Oldham and Bury. That's career progression however you slice it. Maybe he's a lucky boy but to be fair to him we weren't getting battered in the Prem with him the team. Oldham to Prem regular is a big leap.

Blackman got more Champ loans and unfortunately broke his leg. There's an argument there. He played his best football at United imo and left as an established Champ keeper

Add Lundstram to that list. From Oxford to the Premier League and Glasgow Rangers.

John Fleck was 24 when he joined in League one. I think he was pretty good for United and improved through the leagues

Of players that aren't that young there were many who enhance their reps under Wilder. The younger element of the older players would be Egan 25 and Stevens 26. Both played the best football of their career at BDTBL under Wilder.

O'Connell doesn't need debating nor does Brooks.

Henderson left United to challenging for Manure's number #1 . He went from a Champ loan player to Man United's number one until he got Covid.

Ramsdale left for huge money and became Arsenal's #1. His previous move was a relegation candidate i.e. us. Sheffield United to Arsenal is obvious progression.

Baldock was a league one player. He became an ever represent in a Prem team and a full international.

Dowell was in and out. My view is that he was pivotal to our away form. We were play offs due to our away form until we signed Dowell and Madine. The stats bare that out. He bounced around the Champ afterwards. This is arguable.

The pleasures all mine.

 

[nopigfansintown]

It's laughable to say Wilder brought young talent through. The only player he brought through was Brooks and he wanted to loan him to Chesterfield until he persuaded otherwise.

Hecky has given twice as many Academy players debuts in half the time.

"Brought through" is a significant change in the debate if you're implying from the academy? There's a list of young players above that developed under Wilder. Nobody has yet provided any names of academy players in the Wilder era that weren't sold that should've been played regularly under Wilder.

It's key to the debate as the argument has to change from 'Wilder didn't play and develop young players' to 'Wilder didn't play and develop the club's own academy talent' (after all the best one were sold to fund the club.).

If you accept that he did develop external young talent(you'd have to have an agenda to not accept that imo) it becomes axiomatic that he would've develop the internal talent if it was available to him. I wonder if Sheffield United feel he developed Calvert Lewin at Northampton .

 

[robbiez666]

"Brought through" is a significant change in the debate if you're implying from the academy? There's a list of young players above that developed under Wilder. Nobody has yet provided any names of academy players in the Wilder era that weren't sold that should've been played regularly under Wilder.

It's key to the debate as the argument has to change from 'Wilder didn't play and develop young players' to 'Wilder didn't play and develop the club's own academy talent' (after all the best one were sold to fund the club.).

If you accept that he did develop external young talent(you'd have to have an agenda to not accept that imo) it becomes axiomatic that he would've develop the internal talent if it was available to him. I wonder if Sheffield United feel he developed Calvert Lewin at Northampton .

You've listed some players in their early 20s but forgot to list the likes of Ryan Leonard, Nathan Thomas, Ben Heneghan, Lee Evans, James Wilson, Cameron Carter-Vickers, Kean Bryan, Ben Woodburn, Callum Robinson, Lys Moussett, Ollie McBurnie, Jaden Bogle, Max Lowe etc etc

 

[nopigfansintown]

You've listed some players in their early 20s but forgot to list the likes of Ryan Leonard, Nathan Thomas, Ben Heneghan, Lee Evans, James Wilson, Cameron Carter-Vickers, Kean Bryan, Ben Woodburn, Callum Robinson, Lys Moussett, Ollie McBurnie, Jaden Bogle, Max Lowe etc etc

I mentioned Bogle multiple times - he looked good under Wilder. The contention is that he didn't develop young players successfully, not that he didn't develop all the young players successfully. Its demonstrably true that he developed a lot of young players successfully as already outlined. No manager has a 100% strike rate and nobody could realistically expect that. CCV did well at United by the way? Moussett also played the best football of his career under Wilder. Where did he do better?

Kean Bryan I already mentioned. He went from loans at Oldham and Bury to United's PL first team and a move to West Brom. In what world is that not success for Bryan's career progression?

 

[robbiez666]

In what world is that not success for Bryan's career progression?

So, he was at Man City and didn't play, went to us and didn't play (and when he did, fuck me) and then signed for WBA where he doesn't play?

I'm not sure how Wilder has developed him?

Maybe a success for his agent.

 

[nopigfansintown]

So, he was at Man City and didn't play, went to us and didn't play (and when he did, fuck me) and then signed for WBA where he doesn't play?

I'm not sure how Wilder has developed him?

Maybe a success for his agent.

Maybe he was just lucky. I thought he did quite well in the circumstances. I seem to remember attitudes were mixed on here as to giving him a new deal.

 

[Greystones Blade]

With the exception of Ampadu all of them probably enhanced their reputations under Wilder. Where Wilder left or took those players is the barometer imo.

Bryan got a big move to West Brom post United. His two previous loans pre United were Oldham and Bury. That's career progression however you slice it. Maybe he's a lucky boy but to be fair to him we weren't getting battered in the Prem with him the team. Oldham to Prem regular is a big leap.

Blackman got more Champ loans and unfortunately broke his leg. There's an argument there. He played his best football at United imo and left as an established Champ keeper

Add Lundstram to that list. From Oxford to the Premier League and Glasgow Rangers.

John Fleck was 24 when he joined in League one. I think he was pretty good for United and improved through the leagues

Of players that aren't that young there were many who enhance their reps under Wilder. The younger element of the older players would be Egan 25 and Stevens 26. Both played the best football of their career at BDTBL under Wilder.

O'Connell doesn't need debating nor does Brooks.

Henderson left United to challenging for Manure's number #1 . He went from a Champ loan player to Man United's number one until he got Covid.

Ramsdale left for huge money and became Arsenal's #1. His previous move was a relegation candidate i.e. us. Sheffield United to Arsenal is obvious progression.

Baldock was a league one player. He became an ever represent in a Prem team and a full international.

Dowell was in and out. My view is that he was pivotal to our away form. We were play offs due to our away form until we signed Dowell and Madine. The stats bare that out. He bounced around the Champ afterwards. This is arguable.

The pleasures all mine.

Dowell has signed for Rangers on a free

 

[Charlieblade]

PH is now the Blades manager and his remit has always been as manager of a development club. That word, development now has more relevance given the Princes announcement recently. (We are skint so we need to rely on youth.
PH used to manage Blades at youth level, but he has been forced to use experience to counter injuries, and a lack of academy players being ready to step up.
He must realise that young blades will now form the nucleus of our future. There is a big difference between developing McAtee and Doyle as loanees, (bigger expectations) and our own youngsters.

Youngsters develop at different ages, plus gaining experience of the means game (a big step up) They will all move up, emotionally, physically and technically at different rates.

Arblaster, Marsh, Peck and Buyabyu are all great examples of this and Ndiaye at another level altogether. Injuries, and personal development might not be the deciding factor, but they will need the confidence to step up to PL level if called upon. I’m sure Hecky will have briefed them on this before his holidays.

The writing is already on the wall. Limited budget means fewer incoming players and greater use and reliance on youth. Some might make it, many won’t.

 

[Nedski]

Are you one of those who was clamouring for Gordon to start regularly at the back?
Sent back early from Boreham Wood
Leave the decision making to those who have actually seen and worked with these lads
Not one of our 21s is ready for Premier league football yet

Sent back early or recalled early? He was MOTM on his debut

 

[Ndiayewillalwaysloveyou]

 

[espoo blade]

 

[sufcboy95]

Need to get him tied down to a long term contract before we lose another talent on the cheap

 

[moody1889]

Natural finisher I believe he should be around the first team and given some minutes

 

[Harry's Game]

Warnock famously said when he left here he never like promoting players to the first team from the youth set up as he thought it gave the the Board an excuse not to give him money for transfers. He said that was why agreed to let Billy be sold to Scunny. He also had sanctioned the sale of Jags to Milwall for around £200k before an injury crises meant he had to give him a run in the first team.

 

[Down the Channels]

Natural finisher I believe he should be around the first team and given some minutes

He does have a natural ability to find himself in loads of space, and in the right place at the right time. It will get harder of course as he moves up the levels, but he makes the game look easy at times.

 

[adamawdhali]

Marsh reminds me a lot of brooks but a more complete version. Can go on mazy dribbles or can be a poacher. Seems to have if all. Not exactly small either. Men’s football and some extra muscle and he’ll become a problem

 

[Lord Eddard Muir]

Gerrim on bench Friday.

 

[Bl4desutd]

Worth a run out on Friday night in my opinion

 

[Bl4desutd]

Gerrim on bench Friday.

He was on bench Saturday but never got a sniff unfortunately

 

[bladesince64]

He was on bench Saturday but never got a sniff unfortunately

Was praying Hecky would get him on when Benie and Os were tiring late on

 

[Badger Blade]

Warnock famously said when he left here he never like promoting players to the first team from the youth set up as he thought it gave the the Board an excuse not to give him money for transfers. He said that was why agreed to let Billy be sold to Scunny. He also had sanctioned the sale of Jags to Milwall for around £200k before an injury crises meant he had to give him a run in the first team.

Very interesting take from Warnock because you only need to look at mid-90s Man United to see where you can get to if you come across some good ones and give them a go and the profit that the club can make and plough back in. Likewise his own team with the likes of Jags, Monty and Tonge - mainstays year after year.

Take Ndiaye for example - the whole debacle surrounding his departure was a shambles but he came from non-league to Champions League in a matter of a 3 or 4 seasons and became a £20m player (more if he had a longer contract). He'd have been fucked off to Chesterfield long ago based on Warnock's logic. David Brooks nearly was until Wilder had no choice but to chuck him in.

All depends if you can or want to play the long game and have a proper strategy for them. Are they just cash cows or do they genuinely have a future at the top? We need to decide this for some of ours because before we know it, they'll be 21/22 and still mucking about on loan in League One while we're giving contract extensions to Basham and Fleck if/when we go down.

I'd love for us to produce another young attacking player who isn't a rabbit in the headlights, saunters out there and takes the piss in the same way that 18 year old Harry Maguire would dish out kickings to seasoned journeymen in League One and Ndiaye danced around Spurs defence in the cup.

 

[BLADES1988]

Ah gerrimin for sure. Got to be worth a go, his legas are currently still working so that puts him ahead of alot of players

 

[finlaytheblade]

Warnock did bring players through ! Monty,Jags & Tongue all came through more or less together.
All 3 came to us from other clubs released by them as surplus to there requirements as young teenagers.Cant think of any others but he got them right.
Marsh is potentially a real talent! throwing him in at this stage in his development is a big risk and Hecki I beleave is a good coach and knows when he will be ready! Which is not now.He has grown and not fully filled out his frame yet .A loan is his and the club's best bet.
Not seen much of him but what I have seen shows he could be a sensational player if looked after properly.A couple of years ago he did something I havnt seen since TC came here as a 17 year old,the way he touched the ball just told me he was special andMarshie has that gift.
The difference is TC was a well build lad who had physically developed early just like Rooney who at 16 looked like a man at such an early age.
Marshie is the opposite and needs time to develop physically.

 

[Bert]

Warnock did bring players through ! Monty,Jags & Tongue all came through more or less together.
All 3 came to us from other clubs released by them as surplus to there requirements as young teenagers.Cant think of any others but he got them right.
Marsh is potentially a real talent! throwing him in at this stage in his development is a big risk and Hecki I beleave is a good coach and knows when he will be ready! Which is not now.He has grown and not fully filled out his frame yet .A loan is his and the club's best bet.
Not seen much of him but what I have seen shows he could be a sensational player if looked after properly.A couple of years ago he did something I havnt seen since TC came here as a 17 year old,the way he touched the ball just told me he was special andMarshie has that gift.
The difference is TC was a well build lad who had physically developed early just like Rooney who at 16 looked like a man at such an early age.
Marshie is the opposite and needs time to develop physically.

Currie was 18, Marsh is 19.

That's not too young to be in the first team even if he does need to bulk up a bit.

 

[Gin&Juice]

Currie was 18, Marsh is 19.

That's not too young to be in the first team even if he does need to bulk up a bit.

You dip them in and out. Walker for example was built like a man at 18, DCL on the other hand wasn’t. But you can’t rely on a 10 stone wet through teenager unless they’re supremely gifted.

 

[HarryHaslam]

Currie was 18, Marsh is 19.

That's not too young to be in the first team even if he does need to bulk up a bit.

Talking of young kids did anyone see the Copenhagen penalty shootout in Champs League last night? 17 year old lad has a penalty to win it in the shootout, must be shitting himself with progression in the Champs League on his young shoulders… does a Penenka, scores.. some pair of bollocks on the young kid.