Capacity

[metalblade]

Our only trip into what is now League 2 came but 5 (?) years after we built the South Stand.

Correlation? Causation? I know which one my money is on.

Bad luck, after work started the world had an oil crisis and the UK economy crashed remember the black outs, strikes etc with the Labour Gov't handing every worker £8 per week in their wage packet just to keep up with inflation. Think it is bad now in 1974 inflation was at 16% ......................... remember if you are old enough.

 

[CarlMcBlade]

His full statement..

Ahh, I must have missed that at Sunday school.

 

[haich1889]

Our only trip into what is now League 2 came but 5 (?) years after we built the South Stand.

Correlation? Causation? I know which one my money is on.

I miss the days when our board used to blame our demise on the only New STAND EVER BUILT by any club ever in the world.

Every other club had their Stadiums/Stands built for nowt, just our darned luck eh??

 

[nopigfansintown]

I miss the days when our board used to blame our demise on the only New STAND EVER BUILT by any club ever in the world.

Every other club had their Stadiums/Stands built for nowt, just our darned luck eh??

With the exception of Darlington is there any other club that has regressed badly since making significant infrastructure improvements? Or is it always/almost always the opposite? Bigger crowds, more revenue, higher league, finishes?

You can have that period in United's history, which may colour the strange attitude of our fans and make us somewhat unique in outlook. This can be countered by our academy development, pitch and stands seeing us above our neighbours for the majority of that period, and obviously now getting much bigger crowds than we used too. We'd also have to factor in Wendy's failure to do this and their decline.

 

[bladesmanluke]

We've just averaged 29k for an FA Cup semi final.

Oh well done. For a game we were nailed on to lose, at a stadium at the other end of the country that has become tedious at best to our supporters after 4 visits somewhat recently, in the middle of a cost of living crisis, in the middle of a 4 home game streak and 1 week after the season ticket deadline. Need I go on?

Tremendous effort to take 29k and just goes to show how our support has grown exponentially over the last 20 years. On this trajectory we're going to need a considerably bigger ground

 

[JJBlade]

Quite amazing that Newcastle can increase attendances from 12,000 in the bad old days to 52,000 nowadays

Sunderland can increase from 8,000 in the bad old days to 48,000

Brighton can increase from 5,000 to 30,000

Leicester can increase from 8,000 to 32,000

Southampton can increase from 15,000 at the Dell to 30,000 nowadays

Burnley can increase from 3,000 to 24,000

Wolves too, I can remember 4,000 Gates at their broken in bits stadium

Almost every club with improved facilities and a better team can see up to five times the support return.

But a club like United with a traditionally very decent support can't get any more than what we get now, no matter what happens in the future it couldn't possibly get any better could it?

 

[Greasy Chap Butty]

Do people realise that every other club of a comparable size has had (in living memory)
1. A trophy
2. A long stay in the top flight
3. European football

The last time we had a good footballing team with a decent stay in the top flight was the seventies, we didn’t even have 4 stands till that relegation season.

If this club doesn’t develop its infrastructure it WILL be the next hull city.

Has the lack of a new stadium stopped us winning any of 1-3 ??

 

[Greasy Chap Butty]

Quite amazing that Newcastle can increase attendances from 12,000 in the bad old days to 52,000 nowadays

Sunderland can increase from 8,000 in the bad old days to 48,000

Brighton can increase from 5,000 to 30,000

Leicester can increase from 8,000 to 32,000

Southampton can increase from 15,000 at the Dell to 30,000 nowadays

Burnley can increase from 3,000 to 24,000

Wolves too, I can remember 4,000 Gates at their broken in bits stadium

Almost every club with improved facilities and a better team can see up to five times the support return.

But a club like United with a traditionally very decent support can't get any more than what we get now, no matter what happens in the future it couldn't possibly get any better could it?

It's the team performance that brought those figures, and they built correspondingly.
We've just got promoted with 10 pence left in the bank. Let's stabilise the team and see what comes.
Anybody who wants to be like Steve and Sharon down the street who buys a range rover on tick on first day of a new job needs to have a good think.

 

[Sheffsteel]

Oh well done. For a game we were nailed on to lose, at a stadium at the other end of the country that has become tedious at best to our supporters after 4 visits somewhat recently, in the middle of a cost of living crisis, in the middle of a 4 home game streak and 1 week after the season ticket deadline. Need I go on?

Tremendous effort to take 29k and just goes to show how our support has grown exponentially over the last 20 years. On this trajectory we're going to need a considerably bigger ground

Also restrictions on tickets.

I wanted 5 tickets, only 2 of us were season ticket holders, 1 with points and 2 others with zero points.
I could have bought 3 tickets but in the end didn't bother going....we all stayed at home and watched it on tv instrad
and I've been to every previous old Wembley, Millennium stadium, Old Trafford match. new Wembley match.

The club should have copied Man City and allowed season ticket holders to purchase extra tickets in their name.
Man City allowed ST holders to buy 5 tickets, even if SUFC had allowed an extra ticket per season ticket holder
Then our party would have managed to instantly buy 4 tickets and we'd have probably gone, but it's a farce when you want tickets
but can't buy them....then eventually the club lose out as it was left so late to organise travel and potentially hotels.

 

[JJBlade]

Also restrictions on tickets.

I wanted 5 tickets, only 2 of us were season ticket holders, 1 with points and 2 others with zero points.
I could have bought 3 tickets but in the end didn't bother going....we all stayed at home and watched it on tv instrad
and I've been to every previous old Wembley, Millennium stadium, Old Trafford match. new Wembley match.

The club should have copied Man City and allowed season ticket holders to purchase extra tickets in their name.
Man City allowed ST holders to buy 5 tickets, even if SUFC had allowed an extra ticket per season ticket holder
Then our party would have managed to instantly buy 4 tickets and we'd have probably gone, but it's a farce when you want tickets
but can't buy them....then eventually the club lose out as it was left so late to organise travel and potentially hotels.

This is exactly the point
We have 28700 people going to games and it has been this way for quite some time.

These are the 28700 who are either season ticket holders or loyalty points holders

Nobody else can possibly have any loyalty points

So what was the fucking moronic twat who made the decision to sell 34,000 tickets to 28,700 loyalty points holders and nobody else thinking about ?

It is worse than fucking moronic, and people wonder why I call it club retard

 

[reedy63]

Makes you wonder how many fans have thought fuck it this loyalty points system is shit. so that's me done ain't going to bother anymore. It needs to be looked at by whoever is running the club. obviously, it ain't the prince. he wants to sell the club. so were are in limbo, aren't we?.

 

[dn5 shaun]

It's about practicality and common sense.

Have you seen the cheap option? our ground would be fantastic with the latest modern facilities.
If the cheap option triples our executive, banqueting areas and massively improves our income on non match days
then don't see why we'd need these facilities under the Kop too, it would represent poor value re-doing the Kop from scratch
when we can do what Liverpool are doing at Anfield by building behind the stand....we don't even lose capacity then when matches are being played.

We don't have Liverpool money, think Liverpool oh wait a minute, love you all

 

[Isar]

I would love to see BDTBL have ground improvements and raise the capacity to 36-38k.
However, the cost of doing such changes is huge, and in the Premiership the money from Sky and sponsorship is far greater than any extra seating can bring.
"Smaller" clubs can survive in the Premiership without the need for large stadiums, I.e Bournemouth & Brentford.
In the Premiership size isn't everything but I do see our stadium stopping us from growing our fan base.

 

[CarlMcBlade]

I don’t even think we necessarily need to give away teams a bigger allocation (not in the PL anyway). There’s still a lot of untapped potential, locally, in terms of expanding the fan base further.

We can expand fairly incrementally and take it one step at a time. When we expanded last time we were absolutely nowhere near the crowds we get now.

Yes, I remember average crowds of 12k in the 80’s, I can’t see us ever going back that low ever again. But the top league in English football is more popular than its ever been, I can’t see why we can’t grow our crowds again…But if there’s no seats available

Do you mean within the same footprint or extending it backwards ?
If extended , the whole roof has to come off at enormous expense
Can anyone put a £figure on reroofing with no posts + with a new area at the back for standing ?
What happens to the 10k who are shut out of the kop during construction ?

I’d sooner wait until we’ve got the financial clout so we can two tier the kop. Then the lions share of the work can be done without affecting the gates.

 

[FATTYFOULKE]

I keep seeing everyone say how the cost of redeveloping the two stands, Kop and South, would be huge and there wouldn’t be enough return on investment to justify it.

How much ROI are we going to get on Brewster or to a degree McBurnie?

Not a lot is the answer. Something like £45m in transfer fees plus millions in wages spent. Berge too, another £20m plus in fee and wages. He‘s going to run his contract down and we wont even get a fee at the end of it. McBurnie too might. Brewster is probably worthless to us already. Where’s the ROI there?

I think I’d rather have seen a proportion of that money spent on the ground and infrastructure such as the academy. We’d at least have something to show for it for decades to come and us fans would be the beneficiaries of the better facilities as much as the club.

But people would rather the money be spent on the team, which would be fine if there was a guarantee the money was well spent. It if we repeat.the mistakes of the past though we’ll be back as a 2nd rate club in the Championship or lower and we’ll still have a 2nd rate ground.

At some point we have to spend on the ground for the long term future of the club instead of always taking the gamble of spending tens of millions on players who may or may not work out.

 

[robbiez666]

I keep seeing everyone say how the cost of redeveloping the two stands, Kop and South, would be huge and there wouldn’t be enough return on investment to justify it.

How much ROI are we going to get on Brewster or to a degree McBurnie?

Not a lot is the answer. Something like £45m in transfer fees plus millions in wages spent. Berge too, another £20m plus in fee and wages. He‘s going to run his contract down and we wont even get a fee at the end of it. McBurnie too might. Brewster is probably worthless to us already. Where’s the ROI there?

I think I’d rather have seen a proportion of that money spent on the ground and infrastructure such as the academy. We’d at least have something to show for it for decades to come and us fans would be the beneficiaries of the better facilities as much as the club.

But people would rather the money be spent on the team, which would be fine if there was a guarantee the money was well spent. It if we repeat.the mistakes of the past though we’ll be back as a 2nd rate club in the Championship or lower and we’ll still have a 2nd rate ground.

At some point we have to spend on the ground for the long term future of the club instead of always taking the gamble of spending tens of millions on players who may or may not work out.

I would rather the money was spent I sorting the training ground out, then the medium term future of the club in terms of players. Take the hit, get relegated, but guarantee the medium term future of the club.

 

[cahill]

This is exactly the point
We have 28700 people going to games and it has been this way for quite some time.

These are the 28700 who are either season ticket holders or loyalty points holders

Nobody else can possibly have any loyalty points

So what was the fucking moronic twat who made the decision to sell 34,000 tickets to 28,700 loyalty points holders and nobody else thinking about ?

It is worse than fucking moronic, and people wonder why I call it club retard

Wouldn’t a more accurate home average be around 25,500 for this season ? And from a low point in 1987 of 10,000 we are on 28, 700. Football crowds have grown over the years since the hooligan days nearly killed football. I cant prove it but the demographic attending games seems to have changed, more women and minority groups. At PremierLeague level there seems to be a football tourism effect.

 

[cahill]

I keep seeing everyone say how the cost of redeveloping the two stands, Kop and South, would be huge and there wouldn’t be enough return on investment to justify it.

How much ROI are we going to get on Brewster or to a degree McBurnie?

Not a lot is the answer. Something like £45m in transfer fees plus millions in wages spent. Berge too, another £20m plus in fee and wages. He‘s going to run his contract down and we wont even get a fee at the end of it. McBurnie too might. Brewster is probably worthless to us already. Where’s the ROI there?

I think I’d rather have seen a proportion of that money spent on the ground and infrastructure such as the academy. We’d at least have something to show for it for decades to come and us fans would be the beneficiaries of the better facilities as much as the club.

But people would rather the money be spent on the team, which would be fine if there was a guarantee the money was well spent. It if we repeat.the mistakes of the past though we’ll be back as a 2nd rate club in the Championship or lower and we’ll still have a 2nd rate ground.

At some point we have to spend on the ground for the long term future of the club instead of always taking the gamble of spending tens of millions on players who may or may not work out.

Is the situation with Brewster that bad ? We were goosed there.

 

[JJBlade]

Wouldn’t a more accurate home average be around 25,500 for this season ? And from a low point in 1987 of 10,000 we are on 28, 700. Football crowds have grown over the years since the hooligan days nearly killed football. I cant prove it but the demographic attending games seems to have changed, more women and minority groups. At PremierLeague level there seems to be a football tourism effect.

I'm not sure what the actual figures are, but I'd guess the away following average at Bramall Lane was about 1000 - 1200 meaning 27500 home fans.

At night games the Bramall Lane lower tier is often more than 3/4 empty and even Saturday followings from some clubs has seen that part of the stadium more than half empty.

 

[S64 Blade]

I keep seeing everyone say how the cost of redeveloping the two stands, Kop and South, would be huge and there wouldn’t be enough return on investment to justify it.

How much ROI are we going to get on Brewster or to a degree McBurnie?

Not a lot is the answer. Something like £45m in transfer fees plus millions in wages spent. Berge too, another £20m plus in fee and wages. He‘s going to run his contract down and we wont even get a fee at the end of it. McBurnie too might. Brewster is probably worthless to us already. Where’s the ROI there?

I think I’d rather have seen a proportion of that money spent on the ground and infrastructure such as the academy. We’d at least have something to show for it for decades to come and us fans would be the beneficiaries of the better facilities as much as the club.

But people would rather the money be spent on the team, which would be fine if there was a guarantee the money was well spent. It if we repeat.the mistakes of the past though we’ll be back as a 2nd rate club in the Championship or lower and we’ll still have a 2nd rate ground.

At some point we have to spend on the ground for the long term future of the club instead of always taking the gamble of spending tens of millions on players who may or may not work out.

Spot on, that last paragraph in particular.

You sometimes have to spend money in any business, to maintain and improve conditions, irrespective of ROI. Or, likewise at home. Not all home improvements can be considered in the spectrum of adding value to the house. If your boiler is on its last legs, you don’t bother not buying one because it won’t add any value onto the house price.

Ultimately, do we want the Lane to end up like Hillsborough? The Kop is embarrassing already.

 

[bartman]

This is exactly the point
We have 28700 people going to games and it has been this way for quite some time.

These are the 28700 who are either season ticket holders or loyalty points holders

Nobody else can possibly have any loyalty points

So what was the fucking moronic twat who made the decision to sell 34,000 tickets to 28,700 loyalty points holders and nobody else thinking about ?

It is worse than fucking moronic, and people wonder why I call it club retard

So you think we have 28700 fans with loyalty points. ? Sorty but that is a solutely rubbish

 

[bartman]

Also restrictions on tickets.

I wanted 5 tickets, only 2 of us were season ticket holders, 1 with points and 2 others with zero points.
I could have bought 3 tickets but in the end didn't bother going....we all stayed at home and watched it on tv instrad
and I've been to every previous old Wembley, Millennium stadium, Old Trafford match. new Wembley match.

The club should have copied Man City and allowed season ticket holders to purchase extra tickets in their name.
Man City allowed ST holders to buy 5 tickets, even if SUFC had allowed an extra ticket per season ticket holder
Then our party would have managed to instantly buy 4 tickets and we'd have probably gone, but it's a farce when you want tickets
but can't buy them....then eventually the club lose out as it was left so late to organise travel and potentially hotels.

I think the only mistake made by the club was that the window for st holders to buy tickets was way too long. 2 days maximim( including members) wouldnhave been enough, 1 day for other points holders then open to st holders to buy extra tickets ( say 3/4)

 

[bartman]

Makes you wonder how many fans have thought fuck it this loyalty points system is shit. so that's me done ain't going to bother anymore. It needs to be looked at by whoever is running the club. obviously, it ain't the prince. he wants to sell the club. so were are in limbo, aren't we?.

Why is the loyalty point system a probelm ? ( as opposed tonjow the club sold tickets for the semi final ). What would you do differently ?

 

[metalblade]

Why is the loyalty point system a probelm ? ( as opposed tonjow the club sold tickets for the semi final ). What would you do differently ?

To start with needing 500 points was ridiculous plenty have a purchasing history but no points. If SUFC sell multiple tickets to a fan then every one of those tickets should be in the name of who they were bought for and points allocated to that individual. The SUFC ticket site is not the most user friendly for adding family and friends many just haven't bothered to do it.

 

[bartman]

To start with needing 500 points was ridiculous plenty have a purchasing history but no points. If SUFC sell multiple tickets to a fan then every one of those tickets should be in the name of who they were bought for and points allocated to that individual. The SUFC ticket site is not the most user friendly for adding family and friends many just haven't bothered to do it.

Unless i am missing something, how can someone have a purchasing history but no points ?

 

[Groucho Blade]

Quite amazing that Newcastle can increase attendances from 12,000 in the bad old days to 52,000 nowadays

Sunderland can increase from 8,000 in the bad old days to 48,000

Brighton can increase from 5,000 to 30,000

Leicester can increase from 8,000 to 32,000

Southampton can increase from 15,000 at the Dell to 30,000 nowadays

Burnley can increase from 3,000 to 24,000

Wolves too, I can remember 4,000 Gates at their broken in bits stadium

Almost every club with improved facilities and a better team can see up to five times the support return.

But a club like United with a traditionally very decent support can't get any more than what we get now, no matter what happens in the future it couldn't possibly get any better could it?

The other thing they have in common is that they are single city/town clubs. It’s mebbe not really fair to use them as a comparator.

 

[Teddy]

Not sure if already mentioned but another factor effecting floating support is people being able to be confident (in advance) that they’ll be able to get a few decent seats together for a match.

If you’re in the city for a weekend, for business, dropping kids at Uni, reunion with old mates, home for Christmas with family who don’t usually go to footie, whatever it may be - you’re unlikely to think “why don’t we all go down the Lane and watch them Blades - they’re meant to be pretty good atm” when you’re aware that Bramall Lane is pretty much full all the time.

As I’ve not been based in Sheffield for about 14 years I’ve been in at least 2 of those scenarios - I’ve forced the issue and managed to get to the Lane with people on most occasions (as people say it’s not that it can’t be done, but they don’t make it easy), on others it’s just been too much hassle for people and/or no decent seats together.

If I’m on my own (or just a mate) I’ll just go sit wherever (single seat, restricted view, whatever) but not going to inflict that on casual supporters. I have zero doubt we’d sell more tickets if we had more seats.

 

[YES Blade]

I keep seeing everyone say how the cost of redeveloping the two stands, Kop and South, would be huge and there wouldn’t be enough return on investment to justify it.

How much ROI are we going to get on Brewster or to a degree McBurnie?

Not a lot is the answer. Something like £45m in transfer fees plus millions in wages spent. Berge too, another £20m plus in fee and wages. He‘s going to run his contract down and we wont even get a fee at the end of it. McBurnie too might. Brewster is probably worthless to us already. Where’s the ROI there?

I think I’d rather have seen a proportion of that money spent on the ground and infrastructure such as the academy. We’d at least have something to show for it for decades to come and us fans would be the beneficiaries of the better facilities as much as the club.

But people would rather the money be spent on the team, which would be fine if there was a guarantee the money was well spent. It if we repeat.the mistakes of the past though we’ll be back as a 2nd rate club in the Championship or lower and we’ll still have a 2nd rate ground.

At some point we have to spend on the ground for the long term future of the club instead of always taking the gamble of spending tens of millions on players who may or may not work out.

How do other clubs finance stadium improvements? I’d imagine that it will be via long term loans.

So if we financed the stadium over say 20 years, we might need to trim the budget for players as a result of the loan payments but I’d like to think it wouldn’t have a big impact. There is also the possibility of an increase in match day revenue covering some of the loan payments.

 

[metalblade]

Unless i am missing something, how can someone have a purchasing history but no points ?

Our lass has a purchasing history from buying me shirts and stuff, if she does go to a game I have always bought the tickets so yeah she is on the database but has no points, in the same way kids sometimes don't have points if they don't have their own season ticket.

 

[BladeInIreland]

I was thinking about this the other day. All the smaller clubs who were an example of how to run a club in the premier League from when I first started watching are the championship at best with a few good examples in league 1. There are always new small clubs on the scene who make a good go of it but will eventually fall back down if they don't grow as a club.
I want to be one of them clubs that no matter how bad they seem will always end up back in the premier League. When villa went down, west ham or Newcastle the question was always when they will go back up not if. Just like us in our current state is a question of when will we get relagated. Good teams come and go, the stadium, training facilities, academy and fan income is what sets clubs apart in the long term.