email from club - NO MORE TICKETS ON SALE IN KOP - standing & wrong seat usage

[Rodley]

Didn’t they add additional stewarding and were more or less compared to Nazi Germany.

Well I’m not sure, it didn’t work though did it?

 

[Gimli]

You think people who want to stand simply sitting down in an other area of the ground is a solution. I don't. I think these people at the back of the KOP being able to congregate is an essential part of our ever declining atmosphere & we need to make sure these people have enough space.

No I actually agree that the back of the Kop is where the majority of the atmosphere is created. I used to stand there myself (in my allocated seat )…

I also think that you have got a point, the sensible place for all the stander uppers is the back of the Kop - that would be better with a safe standing area.

Where I disagree is 1) you wanting to cart out anyone else because they wish to sit down to watch the match and 2) thinking the solution is everyone cramming in to places where they haven’t got a ticket for.

It would be great if the club turned round and said we’re putting in a safe standing bit for a couple of thousand people but that will never happen if people continue to ignore the warnings and create issues by overcrowding the back of the kop.

 

[Foxy]

There aren't 33,000 other seats available, there's a maximum of less than 5,000, dotted around the remaining home areas, split across single seats and in areas of the ground with poor visibility which is why nobody bought them as a season ticket.

I know that, I was reversing the point being made

 

[bartman]

The solution to the atmosphere issue isn't having our fans most intent on making noise split between gangway A & gangway G, miles away from each other. We need people making atmosphere in the middle of the KOP.

Palace's is in their lower tier. It doesn't have to be at the back. Why don't all the these people get seats at the bottom of gangways A & B ?

 

[Ace of Blades]

Are they blocking the gangways though?

Yes, at Blackburn they stood in the gangway preventing fans getting back to their seats, with stewards watching on.

 

[Rodley]

Palace's is in their lower tier. It doesn't have to be at the back. Why don't all the these people get seats at the bottom of gangways A & B ?

You want people to go and stand at the front of the stand?

 

[FB98]

https://sgsa.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/The-management-of-persistent-standing-Final-report.pdf

Like I say. Nutcases.

 

[bartman]

You want people to go and stand at the front of the stand?

The point I was making is that Palace, who have been quoting in this thread, have their 'Ultra' section at the front of the stand. Why does a similar section have to be at the back of our Kop. ?

 

[FB98]

The point I was making is that Palace, who have been quoting in this thread, have their 'Ultra' section at the front of the stand. Why does a similar section have to be at the back of our Kop. ?

Because then everyone behind them would have to stand up? People will laugh, but imo the people at the back are actually being considerate. They could just stand up wherever their seats are.

 

[BLADES1988]

Says who?

I think the reference to standing has obscured the issue and some haven't read any further than that.

It's the standing in an area where you haven't been allocated a seat that's the real issue, causing overcrowding and subsequently spilling out and blocking gangways.

Well ok i'll rephrase that to "the only buggers who make any noise"

 

[Sean Thornton]

That was kind of my original point on this. I think the club have been pushed around too long by thr Council and police and a strong, involved owner would have legally challenged some of the restraints imposed (whole sections being closed, rudiculous level of segregation and now tickets not being sold).

The notion there is nothing the club can do I struggle with. A lot are saying ifvthe SAG or council tell us to do it we have to. If this happened to other clubs I believe there administration/ownership would have challenged more. I might be wrong.

By accepting this then this is a pre cursor to the back of the Kop being shut off soon and then possibly the whole stand being closed. People may say that's ridiculous it won't happen but I would not be surprised if that happened. Fans at the back are not going to stop standing or congregating...if anything this will see more doing it judging by the reaction on twitter so the shit storm has only just began.

Like to know what Abdullah, Yusuf and Bettis have done other than chucking a few stewards up to do checks? Surely before it got to this they should have paid for proper stewards/police to be in the sections of overcrowding? They heeded to communicate this was a possibility, closing sections of the ground. To jump from avfre stewards checking tickets to this is a big jump and we have had no communication or information that yesterday was a possibility until it happened.

That's my issue with the club on this. Yes fans overcrowding up there is the root of it as is SAG/Council's involvement which does not seem to happen in other towns/cities but ultimately the club has to manage its match day operation to prevent issues/external bodies getting involved and have failed to do this.

How many people have said there’s nothing the club can do? How many is a “lot”?

Are you suggesting the club, sorry, Abdullah, has rolled over and is doing nothing? Any legal process of this kind takes time and hopefully this is just the club s holding position. Do you know or are you just knocking the owners based on one statement?

As things stand, our income is being hit and there’s a threat of partial closure. Resulting in ST holders being moved to other stands thus reducing income further with less seats available to casuals. Which can be alleviated by a less vehement view about l should be able to stand, at least for the time being.


But no, it’s yuman rights in it. Despite the law being clear.

The “other clubs” argument is a red herring. Inequitable yes, but not within the remit of SCC.

 

[FB98]

No I actually agree that the back of the Kop is where the majority of the atmosphere is created. I used to stand there myself (in my allocated seat )…

I also think that you have got a point, the sensible place for all the stander uppers is the back of the Kop - that would be better with a safe standing area.

Where I disagree is 1) you wanting to cart out anyone else because they wish to sit down to watch the match and 2) thinking the solution is everyone cramming in to places where they haven’t got a ticket for.

It would be great if the club turned round and said we’re putting in a safe standing bit for a couple of thousand people but that will never happen if people continue to ignore the warnings and create issues by overcrowding the back of the kop.

How do you propose the section expands without moving people sitting down 8 rows from the back then mate?

 

[alcoblade]

The point I was making is that Palace, who have been quoting in this thread, have their 'Ultra' section at the front of the stand. Why does a similar section have to be at the back of our Kop. ?

Isn't that stand 2 tiered, and effect you're talking about up to 15 rows, to one side?

 

[Sean Thornton]

If you've got a load of pissed up people blocking the emergency exits, then yes, it is unsafe.

SAG may do, but what do they know. I bet none of them can sing, let alone stand for 90 minutes.

 

[bartman]

Because then everyone behind them would have to stand up?

Surely this solution is to move these fans who want to stand and sing to an area of the KOP with the fewest ST Holders ( bottom of gangways A & B ?) which means fewer fans would be inconvenienced ?

 

[Rodley]

How many people have said there’s nothing the club can do? How many is a “lot”?

Are you suggesting the club, sorry, Abdullah, has rolled over and is doing nothing? Any legal process of this kind takes time and hopefully this is just the club s holding position. Do you know or are you just knocking the owners based on one statement?

As things stand, our income is being hit and there’s a threat of partial closure. Resulting in ST holders being moved to other stands thus reducing income further with less seats available to casuals. Which can be alleviated by a less vehement view about l should be able to stand, at least for the time being.


But no, it’s yuman rights in it. Despite the law being clear.

The “other clubs” argument is a red herring. Inequitable yes, but not within the remit of SCC.

We’ve already cancelled sales of tickets in the area, so its not an unreasonable assumption that there’s either been no challenge or any has been unsuccessful.

The steps taken in the ground to deal with the issue were similarly unsuccessful.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Well I’m not sure, it didn’t work though did it?

And that may be why we’re hear know.

Shakes fist a my Bettis, prays for the real victims.

First they came for those wanting to sit eight rows from the back

Then old women and young kids

Etc

 

[FB98]

Surely this solution is to move these fans who want to stand and sing to an area of the KOP with the fewest ST Holders ( bottom of gangways A & B ?) which means fewer fans would be inconvenienced ?

They may do that but I can confidently say having the loud fans at the bottom of gangway A would be the worst place to plonk them in order to improve the overall atmosphere

 

[bartman]

Isn't that stand 2 tiered, and effect you're talking about up to 15 rows, to one side?

Yep but the principle stands. All those seats at the far side of the Kop

The other alternative is to open up the BLLT to our fans who want to stand and sing and give £2k tickets in the BLUT corner( i.e.John Street side) with a 'no mans land between supporters

 

[Sean Thornton]

We’ve already cancelled sales of tickets in the area, so its not an unreasonable assumption that there’s either been no challenge or any has been unsuccessful.

The steps taken in the ground to deal with the issue were similarly unsuccessful.

Based on what? These things take time as l’m sure you know.

Club are wank boo!

 

[sheepbridge]

I know that, I was reversing the point being made

Yep, I was agreeing with you, sorry if that wasn't clear!

 

[Sean Thornton]

They may do that but I can confidently say having the loud fans at the bottom of gangway A would be the worst place to plonk them in order to improve the overall atmosphere

Doesn’t suit you down there then? It would be a start surely.?

Do you have an eye on a particular seat?

 

[FB98]

Yep but the principle stands. All those seats at the far side of the Kop

The other alternative is to open up the BLLT to our fans who want to stand and sing and give £2k tickets in the BLUT corner( i.e.John Street side) with a 'no mans land between supporters

The most sensible option by a distance to me & I would think most people would be the back of the middle of the KOP. In order to be central & attempt to get everyone else going.

 

[Rodley]

Based on what? These things take time as l’m sure you know.

Club are wank boo!

Based on the fact we’ve sacrificed a not unsubstantial amount income by cancelling ticket sales. I would’ve thought we’d have exhausted all practical and legal avenues before that happens, wouldn’t you?

 

[alcoblade]

Yep but the principle stands. All those seats at the far side of the Kop

So it's not quite the same is it? If you stood up at the front of the kop, you affect the entirety of what's behind you - a large stand. That has a much smaller impact on a small lower tier like Selhurst, which you referenced.

 

[FB98]

Doesn’t suit you down there then? It would be a start surely.?

Do you have an eye on a particular seat?

I personally have a standing spot I'm fine with I'm just aware that in order to have the biggest impact on the KOP & ground as a whole the best place to put those wanting to make a noise would be the back of the middle. You clearly don't care about the lack of atmosphere so will never view things through this lense.

 

[FB98]

Palace "Holmesdale Fanatics" were on the far left hand side of the stand 3 years ago as you say. Then the club consulted with them & decided that the best idea to improve the atmosphere as a whole would be to move them to the middle of the stand. Now I believe the entire lower tier of the Holmesdale stand every week. This required those previously seated to move our of their way, shock horror, but definitely had the desired impact of improving atmosphere.

 

[Houston_Blade]

This wouldn’t have happened if Ricky was in charge

 

[Sean Thornton]

Based on the fact we’ve sacrificed a bit unsubstantial income by cancelling ticket sales. I would’ve thought we’d have exhausted all practical and legal avenues before that happens, wouldn’t you?

So the timeline has been?

Without knowing all the facts, no. Not even to try backing up a point.

Neither of us know, supposition isn’t fact. As l said, these legal things aren’t decided overnight.

Seeing as we’re swimming in cash, we should be able to afford an appeal.

 

[Rodders]

Palace "Holmesdale Fanatics" were on the far left hand side of the stand 3 years ago as you say. Then the club consulted with them & decided that the best idea to improve the atmosphere as a whole would be to move them to the middle of the stand. Now I believe the entire lower tier of the Holmesdale stand every week

Having the “singers” or whatever in the middle/left hand side/right hand side of the Kop is fine by me. And clearly there does need to be more atmosphere on the ground.
But what cannot happen, by the current licence the club have to operate under is the current 2/3 per seat, blocking gangways that’s going on now. Anything other than that, crack on for me.