Rebuild

[Duffy21Blade]

Berge played 27 straight games after he signed.

Why do people keep saying he’s never had a run of games?

In all honesty, it didn't seem like that many to me, but fair enough.

With him coming in halfway through the first PL season, I recall he got injured not that long into last season. Fact remains that we've not seen £22m of value on the pitch.

 

[Eza Blade]

I agree rebuild. My biggest worry is he’s looking at defence for cover this window. Our midfield is terrible. Always one with an average performance and the others shit. How can we make progress when the engine in our engine room is from a 1980s fiat panda

 

[Panini]

We lost at Wolves as well didnt we? Did you come on here with your smart Alec comments after that one too? Its clear to most fair minded fans that if we are starting JLT, Didz and Sharp in every game, which we seem to be doing without fail, then the wheels have well and truly fallen off.

There wasn't much bed wetting after the Wolves game, to be honest.

Yeah we did also lose, to a very good Premier League side, with half a squad missing and having not played for the best part of a month. Still 3-0 flattered them and we might've made a different game of it had we taken an early chance. Importantly, no-one cited Beerschot as a factor in the defeat, unlike today.

I agree that some players have undeserved "safe" spots in the starting XI, but that doesn't mean I thought we were going up after winning at Fulham and it doesn't mean I think we're awful now. I'm definitely not looking at the Prince's finances because I want someone to blame, as others are.

8 of the 11 who started at Fulham started today. 2 of the 3 changes were forced, and the 8 who played in both were rusty at best. Yes, I'm asking why rustiness might make a player nesh tackles but the answer isn't in our transfer policy or a set of Belgian accounts.

Not overreacting doesn't make me a smart Alec.

 

[Champagneblade]

In all honesty, it didn't seem like that many to me, but fair enough.

With him coming in halfway through the first PL season, I recall he got injured not that long into last season. Fact remains that we've not seen £22m of value on the pitch.

As much as I dislike Lundstram, Berge didn't do anything to justify his continued selected other than the manager trying to justify the huge fee he spent on him.

He had a period where he was one of the better performers in a poor team last season. I think that period was the first half against Fulham at home!

Otherwise I'd probably rather be seeing what Slater can do in the midfield because the absence of any sort of bite in the middle of the park was so glaring.

 

[Panini]

Just a matter of opinion I guess. In my eyes we’re not going forward. Just stagnant. I’d rather sell some of these suppose bigger names in the squad and invest in facilities and some actual good scouting instead of “yeah failed wonderkid let’s give it a go and hope for the best”

It does feel flat, but I'm not sure stagnant fits.

It's not glamorous to say it, but we're very much in transition. We'll have some great results along the way because our squad are still capable, but we'll also have some stinkers because they're not up to performing to a high level every week. Our reality is somewhere in the middle.

The majority of funds generated from player sales won't go into player purchase, first team facilities or the academy. This won't change until we've ridden out the storm relegation brings. By the time the parachute payments wear off we need to have finished the transition (high earners gone) or be back in the PL. Neither option is easy or comfortable. We don't have the resources of Fulham, Bournemouth etc to blast ourselves to promotion.

Underperforming high earners are the key issue here, not the Prince's accounts or where Giansiracusa lives.

 

[Deadly_D'Jaffo]

2023 I'd like to imagine we are starting something like the below.

Sell Lowe, RND, Berge, McBurnie to fund some desperately needed additions to the squad. Write off/release Robinson, Slater, Freeman, Mousse & Burke. Let Hourihane go wherever but here.

If the rave reviews are anything to go on it might be nice to see Seriki, Neale, Lopata & Brunt press on with a loan in L1.

GK*
Basham Egan JOC(?)
Baldock Norwood Coulibaly(?) LWB
Ndiaye
Jebbison Brewster

SUBS: Foderingham, Bogle, Gordon, Osborn, Fleck, Sharp, CF

 

[Rudders]

Whichever way you look at it we have had 3 managers manage this squad and the same problems.
Arguably the best manager of the 3, Wilder couldn't get a tune out of them and cleared off.
Hecky got slightly better results when we went down but it wasn't great still.
Decent championship level manager Jokanovic couldn't get better than a mid to lower table championship output from them.
Now Hecky is back, we got new manager bounce, but we crashed out of the cup at the first opportunity and have just lost to the bottom of the table side, managed by a rookie with a team of kids and free agents.
There are huge issues with this squad in all positions that all 3 managers can't/couldn't coach their way out of. We need to rebuild now. Hecky should start swinging the axe starting with JLT and some of the other obvious drains.

 

[ekke287]

The game today could’ve gone either way. They were shit, we were shit. Simple.

I’m not sure I’d say we’re now going down in two seasons, but we need to get better out of what we’ve got and fill the cracks with cheap options and kids.

This is pretty much the strategy the board I’ve come out with so we have to live with it.

 

[Duffy21Blade]

As much as I dislike Lundstram, Berge didn't do anything to justify his continued selected other than the manager trying to justify the huge fee he spent on him.

He had a period where he was one of the better performers in a poor team last season. I think that period was the first half against Fulham at home!

Otherwise I'd probably rather be seeing what Slater can do in the midfield because the absence of any sort of bite in the middle of the park was so glaring.

I'm no fan of Lundstram either, but in all fairness to him, he was playing very well in January 2020 when Berge signed. Still, in the end, his performances on the pitch became almost unprofessional. Not tracking his runners when he lost the ball - the one against Southampton at home just before Wilder left.

The problem for me with Berge is, I just don't know what he is in that side to do. He is 6 foot 5, but he's not a midfield enforcer. When they say the bigger they come, the harder they fall down - that statement has never been more true in his case. He doesn't seem to be used as a creative player, and he's not defensive, so what is he there to do?

I agree that we desperately need some bite in the middle of the park. We need a proper CDM - and it's not Guediora, he is this seasons version of Jack Rodwell.

 

[Bell4]

There wasn't much bed wetting after the Wolves game, to be honest.

Yeah we did also lose, to a very good Premier League side, with half a squad missing and having not played for the best part of a month. Still 3-0 flattered them and we might've made a different game of it had we taken an early chance. Importantly, no-one cited Beerschot as a factor in the defeat, unlike today.

I agree that some players have undeserved "safe" spots in the starting XI, but that doesn't mean I thought we were going up after winning at Fulham and it doesn't mean I think we're awful now. I'm definitely not looking at the Prince's finances because I want someone to blame, as others are.

8 of the 11 who started at Fulham started today. 2 of the 3 changes were forced, and the 8 who played in both were rusty at best. Yes, I'm asking why rustiness might make a player nesh tackles but the answer isn't in our transfer policy or a set of Belgian accounts.

Not overreacting doesn't make me a smart Alec.

Don’t think many are blaming the princes finances

He sanctioned what money we had for Chris to try and build on the great work he had performed for 3 seasons

The prince never had money to put in - he got lucky with Chris

He doesn’t know how to run a football club but is forgiven by me for expecting some return from £140m or so outlay - who wouldn’t - he gambled on the money being used even half wisely

If I had sanctioned this kind of money to an expert within my business I would also expect some return / especially in a league below

Then he got unlucky with Chris because as we know he totally blew it then walked away

The prince is left in a much worse position and has also as good as walked away

He needs to sell not to reinvest but to be able stay afloat - if he can’t get rid of the shambles Chris left then the Crown Jewels will go - perhaps both

No point blaming the prince - he has no emotional connection with Utd , he saw the potential - freed up the money - it was blown - he wants out

We loved him when he provided the money - it’s Wilder who messed it up

 

[Champagneblade]

Don’t think many are blaming the princes finances

He sanctioned what money we had for Chris to try and build on the great work he had performed for 3 seasons

The prince never had money to put in - he got lucky with Chris

He doesn’t know how to run a football club but is forgiven by me for expecting some return from £140m or so outlay - who wouldn’t - he gambled on the money being used even half wisely

If I had sanctioned this kind of money to an expert within my business I would also expect some return / especially in a league below

Then he got unlucky with Chris because as we know he totally blew it then walked away

The prince is left in a much worse position and has also as good as walked away

He needs to sell not to reinvest but to be able stay afloat - if he can’t get rid of the shambles Chris left then the Crown Jewels will go - perhaps both

No point blaming the prince - he has no emotional connection with Utd , he saw the potential - freed up the money - it was blown - he wants out

We loved him when he provided the money - it’s Wilder who messed it up

This is why I've lost a lot of respect for Wilder.

He knows the size and history of the club as well as anyone.

The narrative that we couldn't compete and wouldn't pay wages was such a nonsense because he didn't have to lavish so much money purely on fees. He could have spent differently or in some cases chosen not to spend or to spend on infrastructure, which would have been a great legacy.

All that aside, he could have owned his failings. It was 100% his squad that had no wins from 17, Basham aside.

He should have lowered his pride, accepted his own failings and gone again in the summer. He didn't and for that I'll struggle to respect the way he left. I respect his achievements but when the going actually got tough, he was off straight through the back door. I thought he was more resilient than that and the fact he wasn't remains a huge disappointment.

 

[Bell4]

This is why I've lost a lot of respect for Wilder.

He knows the size and history of the club as well as anyone.

The narrative that we couldn't compete and wouldn't pay wages was such a nonsense because he didn't have to lavish so much money purely on fees. He could have spent differently or in some cases chosen not to spend or to spend on infrastructure, which would have been a great legacy.

All that aside, he could have owned his failings. It was 100% his squad that had no wins from 17, Basham aside.

He should have lowered his pride, accepted his own failings and gone again in the summer. He didn't and for that I'll struggle to respect the way he left. I respect his achievements but when the going actually got tough, he was off straight through the back door. I thought he was more resilient than that and the fact he wasn't remains a huge disappointment.

Exactly

There seems to be the for Wilder camp (have you forgotten what he did?) and the anti Wilder camp (walked away through the back door) . It's somewhere in between.

There has been many a manager and there will be many more who are more experienced than Wilder who have and will screw up in the Prem - Its the toughest league in the world . Thats fine .

What is unforgivable and a let down is that Wilders use of the investment we had was terrible. If he had stayed on and tried to realise the potential he saw / anticipated in these signings and tried to build on them in an arena he was superb in (the championship - Middlesborough will go up trust me) then that would have been fine.

To say that the plan had changed last season and people changed their minds .....well I'm not at all surprised. We had invested/ pushed the boat out and it was going horrifically wrong.. of course the plan would change , plans do based on the plan set out at the beginning and the subsequent progress against that plan.

But to carry on like he did and leave us in the lurch for someone else to clean up is cowardly and egotistical.

The prince said continually he wanted him to stay - Wilder just wanted to bail.

He should have carried on - brought out the best in the players he bought or moved them on , rebuilt with that investment and we go again.

thats what people hate .

We all appreciate what he did - we loved him - he was a hero.

But he left us in the mess for his pride.

Very immature

 

[Blacksea]

The problem with calling for a rebuild is that the guy who would mastermind it,namely Hecky,stated just a couple of weeks ago that he is happy with the squad and sees no need for changes.

 

[Houston_Blade]

Remember that prior to this league game we’d won the last 4 and we were the dogs bollocks

 

[Weasel]

This is why I've lost a lot of respect for Wilder.

He knows the size and history of the club as well as anyone.

The narrative that we couldn't compete and wouldn't pay wages was such a nonsense because he didn't have to lavish so much money purely on fees. He could have spent differently or in some cases chosen not to spend or to spend on infrastructure, which would have been a great legacy.

All that aside, he could have owned his failings. It was 100% his squad that had no wins from 17, Basham aside.

He should have lowered his pride, accepted his own failings and gone again in the summer. He didn't and for that I'll struggle to respect the way he left. I respect his achievements but when the going actually got tough, he was off straight through the back door. I thought he was more resilient than that and the fact he wasn't remains a huge disappointment.

He bottled it, pure and simple. When it came on top he was out the back door and left the ones left behind to deal with it. As a manager at Utd, he was like the mouthy tw@t in the pub who does all the shouting with his mates and is the top man, but when it kicks off he off and away. Coward.

 

[CornwallBlade]

The problem with calling for a rebuild is that the guy who would mastermind it,namely Hecky,stated just a couple of weeks ago that he is happy with the squad and sees no need for changes.

Yes, but he’s hardly going to say it’s a shower of shite if a) he knows there’s no money for transfers and b) he has to keep this squad motivated, is he?

 

[Mario1889]

Not until we have survived relegation. Then I'd be happy if we got rid of pretty much everyone on free transfers.

Now may or may not be the time for a rebuild but any talk of us being relegated is just silly.

Absolutely no way will any of the current bottom 3 catch us.

 

[1889]

This is why I've lost a lot of respect for Wilder.

He knows the size and history of the club as well as anyone.

The narrative that we couldn't compete and wouldn't pay wages was such a nonsense because he didn't have to lavish so much money purely on fees. He could have spent differently or in some cases chosen not to spend or to spend on infrastructure, which would have been a great legacy.

All that aside, he could have owned his failings. It was 100% his squad that had no wins from 17, Basham aside.

He should have lowered his pride, accepted his own failings and gone again in the summer. He didn't and for that I'll struggle to respect the way he left. I respect his achievements but when the going actually got tough, he was off straight through the back door. I thought he was more resilient than that and the fact he wasn't remains a huge disappointment.

Thats all very well, but I think you’re overlooking some additional factors, if Wilder had acknowledged his failings and stayed on into this season to give it another go. Whilst he would still be on his generous salary at Bramall Lane, he’d be a £4M severance payment out of pocket and not at the start of a four year contract earning a similarly generous salary at Middlesbrough.

I’m pretty sure Chris Wilder still genuinely loves the club and loves the city, but it’s just not as much as he loves Chris Wilder

 

[Hull Blade]

Too many about to enter journeyman territory. Root and branch from top to bottom or next season could be a right ball acher.

 

[Revolution]

The problem with calling for a rebuild is that the guy who would mastermind it,namely Hecky,stated just a couple of weeks ago that he is happy with the squad and sees no need for changes.

He has been appointed for precisely this reason. He will do as he is told and not rock the boat.

Jokanovic wanted new players and said so repeatedly. Heckingbottom won’t do that.

 

[DIRTY HARRY]

This will probably sounds like I’m overreacting but in my opinion we should just start the rebuild now. Sell berge for as much as you can, sell some of the others and start some of the younger players or at least give them a clearer pathway.

This

 

[robbiez666]

The problem with calling for a rebuild is that the guy who would mastermind it,namely Hecky,stated just a couple of weeks ago that he is happy with the squad and sees no need for changes.

He would truly be a 'mastermind' if he knew we were only signing one new player but went on tv and said the players he has to manage for the rest of the season aren't good enough.

 

[Grumps]

How do we rebuild? You need to sign players? We’ve been told this transfer window we need a centre back? We are now half way through January and as yet no C/B ? So when people are calling to rebuild how long would it take

 

[Sheffsteel]

Pity is us the fans arnt laughing ... not happy .... foreign owned with no money.... United World will be our downfall!

Nearly every club in the top 2 divisions are foreign owned.
We are currently one of the highest spenders in the league….hence we have plenty of money whilst we’re receiving the Sky payments.
However in 2 years this will stop and if we don’t get back to the PL we will need to downsize like most of the other Championship clubs.

 

[Keen Blade]

How do we rebuild? You need to sign players? We’ve been told this transfer window we need a centre back? We are now half way through January and as yet no C/B ? So when people are calling to rebuild how long would it take

Even Egan is looking shaky - defended like a child for their first goal.

 

[Champagneblade]

Thats all very well, but I think you’re overlooking some additional factors, if Wilder had acknowledged his failings and stayed on into this season to give it another go. Whilst he would still be on his generous salary at Bramall Lane, he’d be a £4M severance payment out of pocket and not at the start of a four year contract earning a similarly generous salary at Middlesbrough.

I’m pretty sure Chris Wilder still genuinely loves the club and loves the city, but it’s just not as much as he loves Chris Wilder

That's very true. Difference being I wouldn't have paid him anything if he was quitting.

Why would we? Some archaic notion of gratitude? He got a new contract almost every year with an uptick on wages he was happy to sign on for. Wasn't that gratitude enough? I doubt he got anywhere near 4m either. He may have been asking for that but him spending all the cash and us having none left to give him hardly constituted constructive dismissal. Neither does us refusing to spend good money after bad when he had us marooned.

 

[Wincobank S9 Blade]

No natural finisher at minute Sharp’s not what he used to be and left side of defence needs strengthening imo.

 

[Bell4]

I agree rebuild. My biggest worry is he’s looking at defence for cover this window. Our midfield is terrible. Always one with an average performance and the others shit. How can we make progress when the engine in our engine room is from a 1980s fiat panda

We won’t make progress as we have no money and we will add nothing and no one of any significance in Jan

We have no money or desire from above to downs even if we did

All these posts are very well re what and who we need - save yourselves the time and trouble -

We have no money any rebuild - that was spelled out loud , crudely abs clearly during the press conference .

The only improvement we may see is if we recall the lad from burton

Hecky will do the very best he can but he will never rock the boat - that’s why he’s in charge

 

[Bell4]

This

This will probably sounds like I’m overreacting but in my opinion we should just start the rebuild now. Sell berge for as much as you can, sell some of the others and start some of the younger players or at least give them a clearer pathway.

And there’s the rub

Who wants them and if they did how much would they pay and if they did how much would we reinvest

You , me and most other people know that the answer to all three questions = no rebuild

 

[JackSUFC]

No natural finisher at minute Sharp’s not what he used to be and left side of defence needs strengthening imo.

Love the man but the fact he’s still leading the line at this point is shambolic when you look at the money spent on forwards in recent years.