Derby fans a disgrace

[Westran]

Whatever anyone says, the songs the Derby fans sang and the songs some of our fans sing are misogynistic and normalise behaviour that's harmful to woman.

We have a problem amongst men and its never a bad time to talk about it. It's men who are violent, towards men as well as towards woman, but it's very rarely woman and so it's our problem and we should sort it out. The only way to sort it out is for us to talk about it and to point out poor attitudes and behaviours amongst our fellow men.

I salute you all for carrying on an important conversation, those that don't think it's important, ask your mum, sister, wife, grandma etc how they feel about it, if they think it's disgusting, maybe we shouldn't dismiss it as "bantz"

 

[Kanye]

Doesn't that show that homicides have gone up over the last 5 years?

Sort of shows that it has stabilised over the last 3 if you ask me, and yes, it has gone up from 5 years ago.

The reason I posted is it though is that it refutes the assumption that there's "more murders than we've ever known", which was the original claim.

 

[dynamoblade]

Clearly I don't believe everyone joining in chants such as 'shag your women' is an evil misogynist on the cusp of committing an act of violence against women; 10 years ago I used to join in as well. But that's no justification for not reflecting and changing our behaviour.

I believe large numbers chanting these kind of lyrics does have the following impacts:
a) It encourages and gives justification to those with misogynist views and violent tendencies in a way that increases the chances of them being violent to women. I know of a particular case of rape where the rapist continues to see his actions as 'normal'; due in no small part to the (perceived) attitudes of his peers and the 'banter' on their whatsapp group.
b) It makes it more difficult for (predominantly) young women to stand up to behaviour that makes them feel uncomfortable/unsafe as it sets the impression that this kind of behaviour is normal
c) Creates an atmosphere where many women may feel uncomfortable about following United

I think, on balance, I'm prepared to take the accusation that we've 'gone soft' on the chin in comparison.

I can't believe you would deny the agency of women in such a paternalistic way. Are you aware that there are many women who actually enjoy sex and that some even go out of a friday neyt looking for some slap and tickle?

The song is literally about the idea of having sex for pleasure and the local lasses preferring the strapping young blades to the local lads. To go from there to rape culture is mind boggling and suspiciously puritanical. Demonstrates how the Americanised radlibs and the Americanised right really are two sides of the same coin.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

I can't believe you would deny the agency of women in such a paternalistic way. Are you aware that there are many women who actually enjoy sex and that some even go out of a friday neyt looking for some slap and tickle?

The song is literally about the idea of having sex for pleasure and the local lasses preferring the strapping young blades to the local lads. To go from there to rape culture is mind boggling and suspiciously puritanical. Demonstrates how the Americanised radlibs and the Americanised right really are two sides of the same coin.

Why would you be signing that to their fans, unless it’s implied they have some sort of ownership or claim on them and therefore would resent you doing that?

 

[dynamoblade]

Solidarity with those calling out the "your women" chant. Fucking dark ages.....

Call out culture has nothing to do with 'solidarity'. Its the kind of egotistical individualist claptrap that undermines solidarity. The dark ages were ironically strongly characterised by a puritanical imposing regime which punished any who stepped outside of the boundaries of 'accepted norms'. I know you think you're being 'liberal' and 'progressive' but in reality it's you internet call out cultists who are the new clergy and 'faithful' shitting on everyone else to make themselves feel superior.

Please stop it.

 

[Davalon]

No one did that. It was a reply to a post moaning that not being able to sing a song which degrades women is a case of the world going soft, PC gone mad, and all that shite that idiots say when they’re told something is no longer acceptable.
The point behind it, insensitively made, is that there is a link between that historically toxic view and violence towards women, which is leading to them being beaten and killed by men if they dislike or disagree with something.
I could have used Sabina Nessa, but the perpetrator hasn’t been found yet, or one of the other 200 women killed recently by men.
I’ve asked for the paragraph to be removed in case someone close to the family is on here and my comments weren’t intended to upset them directly but to show the hypocrisy in defending those normalised views.

Despite what some on here are trying to claim, those lines are about conquest and ownership of women by men akin to beer. It’s shite and shouldn’t be sung and challenging these things isn’t a case of the world going soft.

I'd agree on a lot of those points but these things provoke huge hypocrisy in these parts.

As I've alluded to in another post, many get very upset when facts are brought up about certain people heavily associated with our club and their past treatment of women.

 

[Rodders]

U can’t say nuffink nemore

 

[dynamoblade]

Why would you be signing that to their fans, unless it’s implied they have some sort of ownership or claim on them and therefore would resent you doing that?

Its essentially like singing my dick is bigger than your dick. Which in turn is essentially what every football chant is about and indeed the act of supporting a football club. Its all a bit of fun and most of us know it's tongue in cheek. If you don't like it, don't do it.

 

[stpauliblade]

I can't believe you would deny the agency of women in such a paternalistic way. Are you aware that there are many women who actually enjoy sex and that some even go out of a friday neyt looking for some slap and tickle?

The song is literally about the idea of having sex for pleasure and the local lasses preferring the strapping young blades to the local lads. To go from there to rape culture is mind boggling and suspiciously puritanical. Demonstrates how the Americanised radlibs and the Americanised right really are two sides of the same coin.

Ironically enough 'she was gagging for it' was the defence used in the rape case I'm aware of. For what's it's worth, my interpretation of the lyrics when I used to sing them was that having Blades descend to an away team's town was like some kind of Viking hoard raping and pillaging. I used to think it was acceptable/funny as banter. I've now changed my opinion.

 

[dynamoblade]

Ironically enough 'she was gagging for it' was the defence used in the rape case I'm aware of. For what's it's worth, my interpretation of the lyrics when I used to sing them was that having Blades descend to an away team's town was like some kind of Viking hoard raping and pillaging. I used to think it was acceptable/funny as banter. I've now changed my opinion.

What does a crass outdated rape defence have to do with a football chant that isn't about rape?

If you thought the song was about rape that's more a reflection of you and the discourses you participate in. Ordinary blokes and lasses in Sheffield don't think that's what it's about.

 

[Carlton Blade]

"After the game we intend to go out in your town and attempt to copulate with the females of the area. We'll also partake in whatever Ale you have available"

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Call out culture has nothing to do with 'solidarity'. Its the kind of egotistical individualist claptrap that undermines solidarity. The dark ages were ironically strongly characterised by a puritanical imposing regime which punished any who stepped outside of the boundaries of 'accepted norms'. I know you think you're being 'liberal' and 'progressive' but in reality it's you internet call out cultists who are the new clergy and 'faithful' shitting on everyone else to make themselves feel superior.

Please stop it.

Are you calling me out on the internet for calling things out on the internet?
Please continue to do it.

 

[Moan? Nope-I saw Longhorn]

Cos we're all well-dressed handsome devils with charm oozing out our pores, obviously. The song isn't about rape or sexual assault of any kind. It's about lads on a weekend away getting with the local talent. This is a completely normal thing done up and down the country (and the world). Why do radical liberals have to ruin everything these days? (Said as a socialist who believes in social justice but not nonsense.)

Aye,
Key words-
“lads”
“talent”
“normal”

Come & join us in the 20th Century- its ‘mint’

NB The debate is a tad less complicated than (your (mis) understandings of) ‘socialism’ - it’s about decency & respect

 

[Westran]

Call out culture has nothing to do with 'solidarity'. Its the kind of egotistical individualist claptrap that undermines solidarity. The dark ages were ironically strongly characterised by a puritanical imposing regime which punished any who stepped outside of the boundaries of 'accepted norms'. I know you think you're being 'liberal' and 'progressive' but in reality it's you internet call out cultists who are the new clergy and 'faithful' shitting on everyone else to make themselves feel superior.

Please stop it.

You know this thread is about the Derby fans singing songs about Billy Sharp being a paedophile? Using call out culture as a defence for being able to sing whatever we want without challenge is crass, trying to use examples of the dark ages and historical imposing regimes is a little bit insipid too.

If you think modern society shouldn't point out poor behaviour you're not progressive. Cancel culture can go too far but in this case we're having a perfectly valid debate, you're trying to stifle debate for what reason? For the sake of being against cancel culture or because you think its normal to go round signing about shagging woman?

 

[Large Mendonca]

To be fair, I also think crows are given a hard time. Many don't have "dirty great arses" and i've noticed quite a few getting upset about it recently.

There's obviously exceptions to the rule though, like with anything. Some don't fly over Hillsborough, they do it on our fucking washing when it's hung out.

 

[dynamoblade]

Aye,
Key words-
“lads”
“talent”
“normal”

Come & join us in the 20th Century- its ‘mint’

NB The debate is a tad less complicated than (your (mis) understandings of) ‘socialism’ - it’s about decency & respect

Lads - dialectical Yorkshire word for males.
Talent - colloquial positive superlative
Normal - descriptive of a phenomenon being common.

If you find these things problematic you're probably an elitist buffoon (as your condescending use of 'mint' indicates). As such you are probably the one who has misunderstood 'socialism'. Decency and respect are also inherently subjective. Some might find taking the piss out of language associated with the working class to be both disrespectful and demonstrating a lack of decency...

 

[dynamoblade]

You know this thread is about the Derby fans singing songs about Billy Sharp being a paedophile? Using call out culture as a defence for being able to sing whatever we want without challenge is crass, trying to use examples of the dark ages and historical imposing regimes is a little bit insipid too.

If you think modern society shouldn't point out poor behaviour you're not progressive. Cancel culture can go too far but in this case we're having a perfectly valid debate, you're trying to stifle debate for what reason? For the sake of being against cancel culture or because you think its normal to go round signing about shagging woman?

I'm reacting to the insipid tone of the twonk I quoted who brought up the notion of calling out and the dark ages. I respect the right of you jebs to try and impose your fashionable puritanism on the rest of us but you have to accept the right of others to point out the crass logic and hyperbole of your statements.

Be definition given the song is sung by just about every league club and many non-league clubs it is indeed 'normal'. And personally I see no problem in shagging women, or is that now also suspicious in the world of male progressives telling us what women want?

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Its essentially like singing my dick is bigger than your dick. Which in turn is essentially what every football chant is about and indeed the act of supporting a football club. Its all a bit of fun and most of us know it's tongue in cheek. If you don't like it, don't do it.

nonsense. Why are they their women just as its their beer? You’re stretching.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Tag A Twonk Challenge
I nominate dynamoblade

 

[dynamoblade]

nonsense. Why are they their women just as its their beer? You’re stretching.

Oh you've opened my eyes... I mean why is it their town, they're not landowning Lords and Dukes? Why is it their football club, they're not on the board?
Ownership is the only possible meaning of the word "your". I realise this now.

 

[Foxy]

Had the following email during the early hours from a Derby fan...

"
I was in the away end today. Found this forum googling what Sharp had allegedly done. Seems to be some absolute bollocks, some kind of they said this about Ronaldo so we'll say this about a completely different bloke?

There were two or three in the away end saying a lot more even before kick off, Sharp had been paying people off with the owners money , he'd shagged a 15 year old etc. Very specific stuff. Seemed bloody odd at the time and even weirder after they'd started the chants.

Please don't blame the average derby fan, me and those around me were bemused and let's be honest joined in some half-hearted you twat kind of weak banter. Many who did sing out the (frankly fucking well out of line clearly) songs were under a very strong impression there was some kind of court case. I'll be honest I didn't exactly love the guy on 90 minutes myself. And like a cunt I shouted some abuse at him I'm now not proud of.

No excuse, but an explanation for your fans who I'd imagine are fucking baffled. All involved, derby, shef utd, shef wed or whatever need to fucking grow up."

 

[Belvedere Blade]

Nottingham Forest fans love what Billy Sharp did after silencing Derby​

 

[robbiez666]

Tag A Twonk Challenge
I nominate dynamoblade

He's busy in Derby paying £5 a pint, drinking their breweries dry.

 

[dynamoblade]

He's busy in Derby paying £5 a pint, drinking their breweries dry.

Are you spying on me?

I'm working up the courage to talk to 'their' women as we speak

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Of course, there is inevitably a Pop Song about this New Puritanism that dynamoblade is explaining....

"Hail the new puritan
Maelstrom, cook one
And all hard-core fiends
Will die by me
And all decadent sins
Will reap discipline
New puritan
This is the grim reefer
The snap at the end of the straw
With a high grim quota
Your star karma gin
New puritan
In LA the window opener switch
Is like a dinosaur cackle
A pterodactyl cackle
Jet plane circle
Over imported trees
All the film ghosts will rise up
With the sexually abused and the new youth
In Britain the scream of electric pumps in a renovated pub
Your stomach swells up before you get drunk
Don't call me Peter I can't go
Salem's just up the road
I've got work to do
Hail the new puritan
Out of hovel-cum-coven-cum-oven
Hail the new puritan
Out of hovel, cum-coven, cum-oven
And all hard-core fiends
Will die by me
And all decadent sins
Will reap discipline
New puritan
I curse your preoccupation
With your record collection
New puritan has no time
It's only music, John
New puritan
Ungodly mass
Thick ass"

WITHOUT looking it up, guess the band.....

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Are you spying on me?

I'm working up the courage to talk to 'their' women as we speak

Keep your story straight. You've explained that the "shag your women" line was conceived to celebrate the liberation of women & their right to choose their sexual partners

Obvs, they'll be coming over to you to chat you up & make advances. You know, if that's what the song is really about....

 

[Bladeinleeds]

Not got much to add to this thread - lot of people have summed up my thoughts.

I’ll just add we are less than 2 years removed from dean Henderson stating in a national newspaper - he had suicidal thoughts and ‘considered driving off the snake pass’ after the chants aimed at him.

If you wanted a reason to reconsider how the ‘banter’ might impact players - who although they are handsomely rewarded have the exact same issues and demons as the rest of the general population.

We’ve no idea how it might impact the individual when ‘making up’ a chant like that, but that ought to give you pause to at least consider it.

 

[robbiez666]

There's a wider issue here, but purely in terms of this forum the language used on here needs to be better. And I don't mean getting carried away and crossing a line with someone (who hasn't been banned at some stage?) but the casual everyday sexism, homophobia, racism, ableism, xenophobia etc which is posted on here every single day.

The idea of a football forum is to be a welcoming and open place for people to discuss our team. We all need to be better (and I've been guilty of it in the past as well, this isn't me pretending to be some angel). The casual sexism, in particular, is pretty horrific. I'm not sure why any women would want to post on here.

It's not the '70s or the '80s. The world has moved on. Not everyone with it.

 

[robbiez666]

Not got much to add to this thread - lot of people have summed up my thoughts.

I’ll just add we are less than 2 years removed from dean Henderson stating in a national newspaper - he had suicidal thoughts and ‘considered driving off the snake pass’ after the chants aimed at him.

If you wanted a reason to reconsider how the ‘banter’ might impact players - who although they are handsomely rewarded have the exact same issues and demons as the rest of the general population.

We’ve no idea how it might impact the individual when ‘making up’ a chant like that, but that ought to give you pause to at least consider it.

It's also worth remembering, and it's easy to forget, that famous people are people and we have no idea what is going on in their lives outside of football. These chants can be the final straw. And they sadly will be some day, probably sooner rather than later.

 

[Nick Jansky]

Of course, there is inevitably a Pop Song about this New Puritanism that dynamoblade is explaining....

"Hail the new puritan
Maelstrom, cook one
And all hard-core fiends
Will die by me
And all decadent sins
Will reap discipline
New puritan
This is the grim reefer
The snap at the end of the straw
With a high grim quota
Your star karma gin
New puritan
In LA the window opener switch
Is like a dinosaur cackle
A pterodactyl cackle
Jet plane circle
Over imported trees
All the film ghosts will rise up
With the sexually abused and the new youth
In Britain the scream of electric pumps in a renovated pub
Your stomach swells up before you get drunk
Don't call me Peter I can't go
Salem's just up the road
I've got work to do
Hail the new puritan
Out of hovel-cum-coven-cum-oven
Hail the new puritan
Out of hovel, cum-coven, cum-oven
And all hard-core fiends
Will die by me
And all decadent sins
Will reap discipline
New puritan
I curse your preoccupation
With your record collection
New puritan has no time
It's only music, John
New puritan
Ungodly mass
Thick ass"

WITHOUT looking it up, guess the band.....

The Fall. The best version of this is on Totale’s Turns.