SUFC Transfer Strategy

[Deadly_D'Jaffo]

I always admired the Prince/Boards prudent and painstaking approach to decision making. Like trying to persuade Wilder to stay, to not trust him with a transfer budget last January and to take time appointing his successor.

But the delays with player recruitment, the academy/training facility development and selling Ramsdale are now starting to worry me. I get the impression that the board feel the current squad is good enough (perhaps because the balance sheet suggests so) to succeed and that inexpensive loan signings shall be enough to achieve promotion and put us back in the financial black.

But what the board need to realise is;

1. The squad is bloated with white elephants that need to be written off, asap. Namely Berge, Brewster, McBurnie, Burke, Mousset and Freeman. The only profitable asset we had in the squad has already been sold.

2. Most of the squad are average-to-good Championship players which means, at best without investment, our immediate destiny is to become an average-to-good Championship side.

3. Even after 4 games, it's clear to see that promotion this season is a pipe dream without significant investment and this year is our best chance. Depending solely on temporary loan signings will be even more wasteful. There are also players in the Championship and L1 we can instantly attain instead of spending 4-6 weeks trying to sign an international player who was very likely to, and did, fail their medical.

4. We've been here before. Someone send HRH the season review DVDs of 2007-2010. Specifically how the journey went after we decided to sell our Jaguar James Beattie and hire a Kia Craig Beattie. Truly, the Sheffield United way.


The sooner the board understand the urgency, the sooner we can avert the sleepwalk into mediocrity.

 

[Netsix_and_chill]

The thing I am struggling to understand is how we kept getting beaten to transfers by other clubs when we were in the prem as we were sticking to a wage structure that was sustainable and affordable. They kept going to villa etc as we weren't willing to break the bank contract wise.
Now we have dropped it is being touted that our outrageous wage bill is the reason we need to sell to buy, it doesn't fit the previous narrative.
This is the one time in our recent existence we should have a few quid to chuck about.
I am not a football manager or owner by trade but I am pretty sure playing 433 isn't going to work without any wingers. Wilder left over half a year ago and we have known we were going to be in the championship this season for even longer than that, how long does it take to plan a reshape of the squad?

 

[JJBlade]

The thing I am struggling to understand is how we kept getting beaten to transfers by other clubs when we were in the prem as we were sticking to a wage structure that was sustainable and affordable. They kept going to villa etc as we weren't willing to break the bank contract wise.
Now we have dropped it is being touted that our outrageous wage bill is the reason we need to sell to buy, it doesn't fit the previous narrative.
This is the one time in our recent existence we should have a few quid to chuck about.
I am not a football manager or owner by trade but I am pretty sure playing 433 isn't going to work without any wingers. Wilder left over half a year ago and we have known we were going to be in the championship this season for even longer than that, how long does it take to plan a reshape of the squad?

And the parachute payments are for the very purpose of ensuring that relegated clubs don't suffer as a result of relegation, but all of our players have signed a relegation clause (or so we are told)
They are probably still on higher wages than average for the Championship even with this clause, but it still won't be crippling because it never is.

I'd rather twenty players on £50,000 - £80,000 a week that can be sold for big money than our shambles, who are still on good money, that we can't even give away.

 

[ChezVegasBlade]

SUFC transfer strategy..... can't be arsed

 

[Bladezz]

It seems to have followed a particular theme over the years

1. Identify a few (and by that I mean less than a handful) key targets

2. Refuse to pay the club what they ask for early on in the window to get the price down, and likewise wages for the player

3. If we're lucky we strike an agreement and sign the player, if not...

4. Another club gazumps us, or it falls through because of visa issues, medical or another complication (even us changing our mind)

5. This is where we find ourselves at now. The targets that we cherry picked (with the exception of Davies) are not here, and we suddenly have to look elsewhere having done no groundwork and are forced to either panic buy or go for dregs late on in the window with an unsettled team low on confidence.

6. Use the excuses 'We wanted to see what we had' and 'We had to wait to see how the PL teams confirmed their squads'

I hate mentioning them but clubs like Villa seem to have the right approach. Bid for dozens of players, open negotiations with the agents/clubs early on and get the ball rolling with multiple discussions. If player 1 doesn't work, ok we're down the line with player 2 who plays in the same position and so on.

We cut our options down in the Wilder years by refusing to look for players aboard, ok it worked well for a while going domestic, whilst appreciating UnitedWorld developments we still don't seem to have a decent scouting infrastructure either at present either.

The other thread asking who's running the show and who is running our transfer negotiations is particularly pertinent.

Also adding to the above, whilst it's good to be going for ambitious players like Diallo it's a waste of time and effort if we're counting on them when inevitably they don't come here.

Of course I'm not itk for the club's dealings, but can anyone surmise what our strategy is?

We are signing players for United world not the other way round

 

[Sean Thornton]

We are signing players for United world not the other way round

Yes because those other clubs are where the really big money is.

 

[Arcott]

Besic
Robbie Brady
Bentaleb
Ibe
Mangala
Ntcham
Andre Wisdom
Oriol Busquets
Jovanovic
Even Aaron Lennon or Bolasie
are still all available on a free (I think) surely one of these could add something and be quicker and easier to deal with than another club rather than wasting time twatting about trying to beg another club for a loan, that inevitably we dont get.

 

[AdamSufc1997]

Besic
Robbie Brady
Bentaleb
Ibe
Mangala
Ntcham
Andre Wisdom
Oriol Busquets
Jovanovic
Even Aaron Lennon or Bolasie
are still all available on a free (I think) surely one of these could add something and be quicker and easier to deal with than another club rather than wasting time twatting about trying to beg another club for a loan, that inevitably we dont get.

We should be all over bolasie signing

 

[FMBlade1]

Besic
Robbie Brady
Bentaleb
Ibe
Mangala
Ntcham
Andre Wisdom
Oriol Busquets
Jovanovic
Even Aaron Lennon or Bolasie
are still all available on a free (I think) surely one of these could add something and be quicker and easier to deal with than another club rather than wasting time twatting about trying to beg another club for a loan, that inevitably we dont get.

That's something else, we have seemed to have moved away from going for out of contract players.

Last year we could have taken a punt on Sturridge instead of Brewster for example and saved ourselves a fair bit.

The best ones are released/available to discuss terms in early July, as I said before one of our best bits of business was getting Fleck in early:

Sheffield United sign Jack O'Connell and John Fleck

Brentford defender Jack O'Connell and Coventry midfielder John Fleck sign for Sheffield United on three-year deals.

www.bbc.co.uk

That was on the 8th July!

 

[Carlton Blade]

New strategy

 

[Bladezz]

If we all think the squad is so bad….. why aren’t we trying to get the club to spend the money we have received?

 

[Bladezz]

Yes because those other clubs are where the really big money is.

Exactly…. 2 years in the PL should mean the gap is closer than it was the previous time we were in the championship.

Let’s get Slavs men in he wants and get promoted.

 

[FMBlade1]

If we all think the squad is so bad….. why aren’t we trying to get the club to spend the money we have received?

I'm sympathetic to why spending isn't so easy, there's been loss of income because of COVID, and as someone else above said I don't want us spending/borrowing above our means like the other team in Sheffield, and we spent excessively last season.

What I'd like to see us get in are some cheap loans and free transfers, I think sometimes we are too choosey that they have to on our exact list on our exact terms or else we don't have them.

 

[MagnifiqueShorehamStreet]

The thing I am struggling to understand is how we kept getting beaten to transfers by other clubs when we were in the prem as we were sticking to a wage structure that was sustainable and affordable. They kept going to villa etc as we weren't willing to break the bank contract wise.
Now we have dropped it is being touted that our outrageous wage bill is the reason we need to sell to buy, it doesn't fit the previous narrative.
This is the one time in our recent existence we should have a few quid to chuck about.
I am not a football manager or owner by trade but I am pretty sure playing 433 isn't going to work without any wingers. Wilder left over half a year ago and we have known we were going to be in the championship this season for even longer than that, how long does it take to plan a reshape of the squad?

The thing, I can’t understand is how we keep getting beaten to transfer targets by other Championship clubs, in the Championship.
James Garner, another alleged target missed and gone to Forest.Would have been a good signing in midfield.WTF!

 

[FMBlade1]

The thing, I can’t understand is how we keep getting beaten to transfer targets by other Championship clubs, in the Championship.
James Garner, another alleged target missed and gone to Forest.Would have been a good signing in midfield.WTF!

And that Chong player who has started really well for Birmingham. We were supposed to have a good relationship with Man U after Henderson so again, WTF?!

I'm reluctant to start scapegoating people, however if this was the Apprentice it would be Bettis I would be looking at firing if he doesn't deliver the goods.

 

[mattbianco1]

It seems to have followed a particular theme over the years

1. Identify a few (and by that I mean less than a handful) key targets

2. Refuse to pay the club what they ask for early on in the window to get the price down, and likewise wages for the player

Where are you getting your information from?
In the last 5 summer windows, only 8 players have been signed in the last week of the window (in green).

2016/17 (Deadline 31 August)
July
Duffy, Hussey, Wilson, O'Connell, Fleck, Wright, Clarke
August
Moore (19th), Lavery (30th)

2017/18 (Deadline - 31 August)
May
Evans, Stevens
June
Baldock
July
Thomas, Stearman, Lundstram
August
Donaldson, Heneghan (both 31st)

2018/19 (Deadline - 1 September)
July
Egan, McGoldrick
August
Bryan (2nd), Norwood (13th), Washington (31st)
September
Cranie (1st)

2019/20 (Deadline - 8 August)
July
Freeman, Jagielka, C. Robinson, Ravel, Mousset, Osborn
August
McBurnie (2nd), Verrips (8th)

2020/21 (5th October Close)
July
Foderingham
August
Ramsdale
September
Lowe, Bogle, Burke
October
Brewster (2nd)

 

[HeySethUTB]

Besic, Coulibaly and Ntcham, instantly add competition to the midfield and improve it.

 

[Yogi]

And that Chong player who has started really well for Birmingham. We were supposed to have a good relationship with Man U after Henderson so again, WTF?!

I'm reluctant to start scapegoating people, however if this was the Apprentice it would be Bettis I would be looking at firing if he doesn't deliver the goods.

If I was going to try and think logically why we didn’t go for Chong I’d say it was because we were trying for a caliber of loan player from Man U which is a cut above him in diallo and elanga however if that fails and we don’t get them then it will certainly have been a cock up.

 

[guancheblade]

When we got it right:

Summer 2018: Sold Brooks early on in the window, and immediately brought in Egan when it was clear we needed defensive reinforcements. It was felt by some that we had overpaid slightly, but what did it matter? We had him in and settled the team, the rest as we said was history.

--

It's a slightly different point but with Brewster and Berge; I think they are good players but totally do not fit our style of play. Why were they signed then? What background and diligence did we make on them and who did it? What was the strategy behind their signings? We tried to shoehorn Berge into the team over Lundstram and that didn't really work. Brewster likes playing on the shoulder of the defender on through balls, Swansea's way of playing which we don't do as we don't have midfielders that play those sort of killer passes.

Was Wilder pressured by UnitedWorld (i.e. the owners) to bring Berge in? We know they wanted more foreign players.

It all seems a complete mess.

I think the logic behind Brewster was he's a natural goal scorer and a potential long term replacement for Sharp. Except he has zero movement in the box and gets bullied too easily.

 

[FMBlade1]

Where are you getting your information from?
In the last 5 summer windows, only 8 players have been signed in the last week of the window (in green).

2016/17 (Deadline 31 August)
July
Duffy, Hussey, Wilson, O'Connell, Fleck, Wright, Clarke
August
Moore (19th), Lavery (30th)

2017/18 (Deadline - 31 August)
May
Evans, Stevens
June
Baldock
July
Thomas, Stearman, Lundstram
August
Donaldson, Heneghan (both 31st)

2018/19 (Deadline - 1 September)
July
Egan, McGoldrick
August
Bryan (2nd), Norwood (13th), Washington (31st)
September
Cranie (1st)

2019/20 (Deadline - 8 August)
July
Freeman, Jagielka, C. Robinson, Ravel, Mousset, Osborn
August
McBurnie (2nd), Verrips (8th)

2020/21 (5th October Close)
July
Foderingham
August
Ramsdale
September
Lowe, Bogle, Burke
October
Brewster (2nd)

Fair point, though I already said examples of previous years such as when we got Egan and Fleck how we had got this right in the past, and my comment about years goes back decades rather than our more recent history.

With that said last season's signings were mostly poor, the year before that only Mousset made a real impact.

That list also doesn't show us the list of players that we missed out on because of being too slow, though I appreciate it's difficult getting into counterfactuals.

 

[Revolution]

Where are you getting your information from?
In the last 5 summer windows, only 8 players have been signed in the last week of the window (in green).

2016/17 (Deadline 31 August)
July
Duffy, Hussey, Wilson, O'Connell, Fleck, Wright, Clarke
August
Moore (19th), Lavery (30th)

2017/18 (Deadline - 31 August)
May
Evans, Stevens
June
Baldock
July
Thomas, Stearman, Lundstram
August
Donaldson, Heneghan (both 31st)

2018/19 (Deadline - 1 September)
July
Egan, McGoldrick
August
Bryan (2nd), Norwood (13th), Washington (31st)
September
Cranie (1st)

2019/20 (Deadline - 8 August)
July
Freeman, Jagielka, C. Robinson, Ravel, Mousset, Osborn
August
McBurnie (2nd), Verrips (8th)

2020/21 (5th October Close)
July
Foderingham
August
Ramsdale
September
Lowe, Bogle, Burke
October
Brewster (2nd)

It’s quite notable the late deals you identify there include some big failures but only minor successes.

Lavery, Donaldson, Cranie: did ok, and occasionally well, in limited duty

Washington: did poorly in limited duty on the whole

Heneghan, Verrips: hardly played and no good when they did

Brewster, McBurnie - no comment needed

Could it be that leaving it late means it’s harder to get good players who really improve a side? Could be. In which case, oh dear.

 

[bypassblade]

United have a wage structure for one reason they know they're a long way off maintaining PL status on regular basis, okay we may pay low but bet it's still more than some people out there earn. If you look at a stupid wage structure look no further than Barcelona it was said wages account for 103% of income hey are shafted but still don't break FFP I give up..

I mean our neighbours got done for FFP but the stupid transfer fees in PL and wages and FFP not broken "I've heard ducks fart", it's disgusting and just shows the disdain the PL has for rest of football pyramid.

 

[HeySethUTB]

Should have looked at Marcus Edwards and Jonathan Panso, English lads that decided to move to the continent as academy youngsters. Ex Tottenham and Chelsea. 22 and 20 respectively, one playing in the French Ligue 2 after relegation last year and the other finish 7th in the Portuguese Primeira League.

 

[mattbianco1]

It’s quite notable the late deals you identify there include some big failures but only minor successes.

Could it be that leaving it late means it’s harder to get good players who really improve a side? Could be. In which case, oh dear.

Yeah, other than Brewster and McBurnie, the late window signings were mainly squad fillers. All our main signings were done early.

 

[HeySethUTB]

Apologies for a copy and paste job but - I really do think the current transfer strategy is very much restricted. Brexit has effectively shut the market for teams that don’t have vast amounts of disposable income in the championship. The United World model will probably in time allow us to circumnavigate some of the restrictions I.e. buying to loan out players in order to qualify for work permits but although an advantage at championship level, this is a slow burner (production line just switched on), and dependent on our league status we may only ever see these types of players benefit us via transfer fees anyway.

During the World Football Summit meeting back in March a finding was clubs in England may need to be creative when signing players. I believe a way to widen the scope would be looking at players that are eligible for English citizenship or already have it, players like Etienne Green (GK in french Ligue 1) or Ryan Thomas (CM for PSV). The caveat to this approach, still unfortunately boils down to having some money to spend, however it would be cheaper to do this than try and sign/justify wages of foreign players. Really hope the club do further research into this approach, as I know some others are. The worry is PL teams will have the ability to sign foreign players when promoted, then get relegated with teams way stronger than the predominantly British squads that have been ransacked for talent in the championship. Effectively meaning 4th 5th and 6th are the places realistically up for grabs.

 

[Badger Blade]

I hope the club use some of the Ramsdale money to invest in our scouting and recruitment network because it seems really broken at the moment.

I don't think we've had one for a long time.

Weir had a vague policy of getting young lads in who had been cast off by bigger clubs but christ almighty, when you look at what's become of them now, we had a lucky escape.

Going back to Clough's days, all we had were waifs and strays from Scotland/Derby/Burton, all of which played full back and could have moonlighted as extras in the Hobbit.

Adkins signed his Scunny/Southampton old boys network, which (besides Sharp) didn't exactly go swimmingly.

Wilder, for the all the players he signed for us who transitioned into being very good Championship footballers and polishing a few turds, once we hit the Premier League, there wasn't a single new addition to that team who made an ounce of difference to the squad that was promoted. There was the odd flash from Mousset and McBurnie, Callum Robinson and Freeman's feet barely hit the floor before they were shown the door, Berge has done knacker all so it was the same team as before with Lundstram for Duffy. For the first time ever, we had some money so we did no more than squander it on unproven youngsters, lads from Derby that nobody was interested in, a goalie who we've let go twice now, Jack Robinson and Scotland's answer to Forrest Gump, in the hope that some of the duff signings the year before would come good.

They didn't and the existing squad regressed, got injured, were given improved contracts, contracts that were too long to start with and we are where we are.

I can't think of the last time a manager left us for a better job and left us in a good position, there's always an almighty mess to have to clear up, someone having the rug pulled from under them and a usually terrible management of supporters expectations.

 

[HeySethUTB]

Fulham have the smartest strategy regarding squad building, some may say it’s hit and miss but a trend is apparent. They get promoted fill the squad with expensive loans and the odd summer signing, try to survive, if relegated all the loans go back and the team becomes the same team that won promotion with a couple of better players in it, proper YO-YO job, but it works and next year if promoted they won’t need as many loans to come in. At worse it’s rinse and repeat.

 

[Revolution]

Fulham have the smartest strategy regarding squad building, some may say it’s hit and miss but a trend is apparent. They get promoted fill the squad with expensive loans and the odd summer signing, try to survive, if relegated all the loans go back and the team becomes the same team that won promotion with a couple of better players in it, proper YO-YO job, but it works and next year if promoted they won’t need as many loans to come in. At worse it’s rinse and repeat.

Fulham have a lot of money. That’s really all there is to it.

 

[HeySethUTB]

You’ve summed that up in one sentence Revolution

 

[guancheblade]

I don't think we've had one for a long time.

Weir had a vague policy of getting young lads in who had been cast off by bigger clubs but christ almighty, when you look at what's become of them now, we had a lucky escape.

Going back to Clough's days, all we had were waifs and strays from Scotland/Derby/Burton, all of which played full back and could have moonlighted as extras in the Hobbit.

Adkins signed his Scunny/Southampton old boys network, which (besides Sharp) didn't exactly go swimmingly.

Wilder, for the all the players he signed for us who transitioned into being very good Championship footballers and polishing a few turds, once we hit the Premier League, there wasn't a single new addition to that team who made an ounce of difference to the squad that was promoted. There was the odd flash from Mousset and McBurnie, Callum Robinson and Freeman's feet barely hit the floor before they were shown the door, Berge has done knacker all so it was the same team as before with Lundstram for Duffy. For the first time ever, we had some money so we did no more than squander it on unproven youngsters, lads from Derby that nobody was interested in, a goalie who we've let go twice now, Jack Robinson and Scotland's answer to Forrest Gump, in the hope that some of the duff signings the year before would come good.

They didn't and the existing squad regressed, got injured, were given improved contracts, contracts that were too long to start with and we are where we are.

I can't think of the last time a manager left us for a better job and left us in a good position, there's always an almighty mess to have to clear up, someone having the rug pulled from under them and a usually terrible management of supporters expectations.

This is the sad fact. All our better transfer business was done outside of the PL. Imagine if we'd done a Norwich and banked the PL money, except we stay up and instead of floundering last season we actually bag a couple of our first choice signings with the inflated kitty in the crucial 2nd season.