Perspective

[wak1889]

Lots on here up in arms with the situation saying it's a catastrophic decision, I've even seen a post saying he is the best British manager out there , well just for a bit of perspective I chose some random British (including NI) managers and had a look at their win and loss percentage

PREMIER LEAGUE ONLY

Rodgers - win % 48 - loss % 25
Moyes - win % 39. Loss % 34
Hodgson win% 34. Loss %41
Dyche. Win %30. Loss 45%
Smith. Win %30. Loss %48
Wilder. Win %27. Loss %51

So whilst not massively worse than his peers , definitely not statistically the best British manager around , I'm sure villa , and Burnley fans and arguably at the moment Fulham fans think they have the best British manager around, so whilst he has undoubtedly done well at United let's have some perspective and not start building statues just yet

 

[1987]

You just going to bring out one of these a day? Its funny how you mention perspective, but dont really seem to have any.

 

[wak1889]

You just going to bring out one of these a day? Its funny how you mention perspective, but dont really seem to have any.

Ok I answer that my perspective is that it's not a catastrophic decision to sack a manager that is on a run of 4 wins in 31 games with 25 defeats thrown in , tell me any manager at any club in any other country that survives that and we will put into perspective

 

[McGrath]

Ok I answer that my perspective is that it's not a catastrophic decision to sack a manager that is on a run of 4 wins in 31 games with 25 defeats thrown in , tell me any manager at any club in any other country that survives that and we will put into perspective

I'm sure there's an amazing manager waiting in the wings with a miles better win ratio

 

[Bladebri]

This is a ploy, the players have to win last 10 games to save wilder.

 

[Chezzy Blades]

To be fair, whilst I don’t disagree with you he isn’t the best British manager at the moment, I’m not sure comparing his win percentage with a list that includes an ex Man U manager (they will win more than they lose whoever is in charge) and a manager who last year walked into probably the most progressive club outside the ‘Big 6’ in recent years is evidence to back that claim up, nor is it a fair comparison.

 

[wak1889]

I'm sure there's an amazing manager waiting in the wings with a miles better win ratio

There may not be , but my point is that it's not a ridiculous decision to sack someone who is on that sort of run, what I don't understand is why the players can all get slated for performances, the board get slated, but the manager seems to be fireproof , am I missing something ?

 

[cc1]

Is this a joke?

 

[1987]

.

 

[1987]

Ok I answer that my perspective is that it's not a catastrophic decision to sack a manager that is on a run of 4 wins in 31 games with 25 defeats thrown in , tell me any manager at any club in any other country that survives that and we will put into perspective

That list above is bullshit tbh. Cringeworthy.

As for your other point. If that manager had just given us the season of our lives, dragged us up from the bottom of league 1 and hit the premier league 3 or 4 seasons too early, then id say he should stay.

Thats not mentioning that this season and the end of last are extraordinary in terms of no fans (our 12th man ripped away) and injuries to almost every key player you could mention. Oh i mentioned it.

That win rate though. Short sighted, pant wetting.

 

[McGrath]

There may not be , but my point is that it's not a ridiculous decision to sack someone who is on that sort of run, what I don't understand is why the players can all get slated for performances, the board get slated, but the manager seems to be fireproof , am I missing something ?

It is a stupid decision. It's short termist if you just use season by season stats.

Besides, give any of the managers you quoted the squad of lower league journeymen we have or Wilder the likes of Grealish to manage and the wholr situation would be different

 

[wak1889]

To be fair, whilst I don’t disagree with you he isn’t the best British manager at the moment, I’m not sure comparing his win percentage with a list that includes an ex Man U manager (they will win more than they lose whoever is in charge) and a manager who last year walked into probably the most progressive club outside the ‘Big 6’ in recent years is evidence to back that claim up, nor is it a fair comparison.

The managers chosen are just to highlight a point , yes I agree with you about the man u manager comment, but of those 572 games Moyes managed how many were at man u 30? But I'd say the most direct comparison is with Dean Smith who still has a slightly better premier League record and also dyche who has been around longer and had a relegation , but I think u understand my point

 

[wak1889]

It is a stupid decision. It's short termist if you just use season by season stats.

Besides, give any of the managers you quoted the squad of lower league journeymen we have or Wilder the likes of Grealish to manage and the wholr situation would be different

So what should we base employing a manager on if it's not season by season stats ?

 

[1987]

The managers chosen are just to highlight a point , yes I agree with you about the man u manager comment, but of those 572 games Moyes managed how many were at man u 30? But I'd say the most direct comparison is with Dean Smith who still has a slightly better premier League record and also dyche who has been around longer and had a relegation , but I think u understand my point

I cant stress enough, that list is an embarrassment.

 

[Harrisblade]

There may not be , but my point is that it's not a ridiculous decision to sack someone who is on that sort of run, what I don't understand is why the players can all get slated for performances, the board get slated, but the manager seems to be fireproof , am I missing something ?

Maybe youre missing the seasons that CW/AK were here before this particular one?

 

[Eric_Brooks]

So out of interest wak1889, do you think the Prince and his inner circles have the football knowledge to pick a better manager than Wilder?

 

[McGrath]

So what should we base employing a manager on if it's not season by season stats ?

Have you ever heard the phrase "there's lies, damn lies and statistics".

Statistics don't paint a picture and they don't show the true story.

I don't rate this board. But I'm pretty certain they won't be using a few selective statistics to hire a manager.

 

[Barney Rubble]

Maybe Liverpool should sack Klopp because they've been shit for a few weeks and forget about his Premier League and Champions League trophies.

 

[wak1889]

Have you ever heard the phrase "there's lies, damn lies and statistics".

Statistics don't paint a picture and they don't show the true story.

I don't rate this board. But I'm pretty certain they won't be using a few selective statistics to hire a manager.

At no point have I used the statistics to chose a manager , the point is to illustrate that saying Chris wilder is the best British manager out there currently is very very subjective and emotive , if u asked a Burnley fan the same question u get the answer dyche, ask villa fans u might get Smith , my point is that statistically he isn't the best British manager and the chairman or owner has looked at results and decided that they haven't been good enough, and he is correct therefore it cannot be the incorrect decision

 

[Pedro Verde]

So what should we base employing a manager on if it's not season by season stats ?

There is more to football than fucking statistics
Some of those managers have spent far more than Wilder on transfer fees and wages and are managing teams largely that have been in the PL for a few seasons
Wilder started off in L1 from a low standpoint with the squad and has got us to the PL on a shoestring most of those managers had a PL squad to start with
Total bollocks comparing the Wilder with those managers

 

[wak1889]

Maybe Liverpool should sack Klopp because they've been shit for a few weeks and forget about his Premier League and Champions League trophies.

Maybe wilder should have used some common sense when asked if he was going to be here next season rather than speak his mind, you know like the prince did when he said we back Chris wilder we are not going to sack him ,when he actually probably thought this useless tw*t has just spunked 100m plus and look at us

 

[frechyblade]

Ok I answer that my perspective is that it's not a catastrophic decision to sack a manager that is on a run of 4 wins in 31 games with 25 defeats thrown in , tell me any manager at any club in any other country that survives that and we will put into perspective

Daniel Farke Norwich City
38 games 5 wins 27 defeats premier league 2019/20
How is that working out ?

 

[A Storm of Blades]

Not to be too negative on this, but if we’re not using statistics to judge Wilder, that might not necessarily go in his favour either. Y’know, what with the whole bottom of the league, can’t score for toffee, ‘orribly ‘oofy football, cringey public outburst - other stuff. Just saying...

 

[Houston_Blade]

There are lots of factors that apply to those win % stats (like wages, players etc.) that you’d expect Wilder’s to be lower than the others.

Win %’s are only useful when they’re comparing like with like (I.e. never).

 

[wak1889]

Daniel Farke Norwich City
38 games 5 wins 27 defeats premier league 2019/20
How is that working out ?

It is working out very well for Norwich they chose to stick with the manager and fair comment I can't disagree with you on that one

 

[TJ blade]

There may not be , but my point is that it's not a ridiculous decision to sack someone who is on that sort of run, what I don't understand is why the players can all get slated for performances, the board get slated, but the manager seems to be fireproof , am I missing something ?

I'm afraid you are, he was a ball boy sat on the kop, and an ex player apparently that counts for everything irrespective of results

 

[Millhousesblade1889]

I think the point he/ she is trying to make is that usually a manager based on this isolated season would be sacked based on results. Look at what happened to Ranieri the season after they won the league.

Wilder for many has earned the right to be given a second chance and receive the backing to do so.

I do understand from a board prospective that we've spent money on players that haven't immediately made us better. Our best 11 is probably that we came up with if you swap Berge for Lundstrum.

I don't agree with the decision at all, I think wilder should have been given the chance to get us back up. But it shouldn't be a none debatable subject based on this season alone

 

[N20 Blade]

Lots on here up in arms with the situation saying it's a catastrophic decision, I've even seen a post saying he is the best British manager out there , well just for a bit of perspective I chose some random British (including NI) managers and had a look at their win and loss percentage

PREMIER LEAGUE ONLY

Rodgers - win % 48 - loss % 25
Moyes - win % 39. Loss % 34
Hodgson win% 34. Loss %41
Dyche. Win %30. Loss 45%
Smith. Win %30. Loss %48
Wilder. Win %27. Loss %51

So whilst not massively worse than his peers , definitely not statistically the best British manager around , I'm sure villa , and Burnley fans and arguably at the moment Fulham fans think they have the best British manager around, so whilst he has undoubtedly done well at United let's have some perspective and not start building statues just yet

What day did you join the forum? April 1st. Coincidence?

 

[frechyblade]

It is working out very well for Norwich they chose to stick with the manager and fair comment I can't disagree with you on that one

Sean Dyche Burnley 2014/15
38 games just 7 wins
How did that work out?

Perspective you say?
Look at the teams relegated with Burnley that season QPR and Hull. They’ve chopped and changed managers and how has that worked out?