When did things make a turn for a worse?

[JJ Sefton]

...yes - you know that right?

I don’t ‘know’ it, no, and neither do you.

 

[knowsnowt]

It's funny how we all see the game differently - I like JOC and agree with everything you say, but if I had a choice between him and Duffy the year we went up, it's the Duffmeister every single time

Duffys about 84 though now isn't he.
Absolute gem. to watch and one that will always be part of our history, but we need to think about going forward.. JOC will go for 30-40m at some Point. He's that good.

 

[JJ Sefton]

Duffys about 84 though now isn't he.
Absolute gem. to watch and one that will always be part of our history, but we need to think about going forward.. JOC will go for 30-40m at some Point. He's that good.

He has the talent but it depends on his recovery.

 

[Stebop]

I don’t ‘know’ it, no, and neither do you.

No, I do - there is a song that goes 'He's one of our own, he's one of our own - Chrissy Wilder, he's one of our own' - it was quite popular during the years we were all able to attend, the years when we were flying up the leagues and the connection between fans and club was probably at the best it had been since Bassett. I don't really know what your point is tbh, this team and manager have fallen off a cliff since the fans disappeared

 

[Stebop]

Duffys about 84 though now isn't he.
Absolute gem. to watch and one that will always be part of our history, but we need to think about going forward.. JOC will go for 30-40m at some Point. He's that good.

Somebody might, but we'll get about 'undisclosed' for him

 

[JJ Sefton]

No, I do - there is a song that goes 'He's one of our own, he's one of our own - Chrissy Wilder, he's one of our own' - it was quite popular during the years we were all able to attend, the years when we were flying up the leagues and the connection between fans and club was probably at the best it had been since Bassett. I don't really know what your point is tbh, this team and manager have fallen off a cliff since the fans disappeared

They’ve also fallen off a cliff since the Pixar movie Onward came out, correlation=\=causation etc. The conincidence could just as easily mean we handled it all particularly badly.

 

[Stebop]

They’ve also fallen off a cliff since the Pixar movie Onward came out, correlation=\=causation etc. The conincidence could just as easily mean we handled it all particularly badly.

You have a rare talent for talking bollocks - have a like

 

[JJ Sefton]

You have a rare talent for talking bollocks - have a like

What a convincing argument.

 

[Stebop]

What a convincing argument.

What are we arguing about? I've just said you talk bollocks, It's an opinion piece not an argument - I would expect a better rebbutal if we were arguing!

If you can't understand what's just happened over 4 years with a Blade for manager - 'ArTeTa COUld've GOT uS Up' etc, then fair play - I don't even know what you're upset about tbh, we finally had a manager who understood the club, the fans reacted in kind, and once that dynamic was removed we went tits up. For you to insinuate the removal of that dynamic is as inconsequential and disconnected as the plot from a Pixar movie is - pretty low calibre imo. I think the Blades crowd offers something you're dismissing too readily

 

[JJ Sefton]

What are we arguing about? I've just said you talk bollocks, It's an opinion piece not an argument - I would expect a better rebbutal if we were arguing!

If you can't understand what's just happened over 4 years with a Blade for manager - 'ArTeTa COUld've GOT uS Up' etc, then fair play - I don't even know what you're upset about tbh, we finally had a manager who understood the club, the fans reacted in kind, and once that dynamic was removed we went tits up. For you to insinuate the removal of that dynamic is as inconsequential and disconnected as the plot from a Pixar movie is - pretty low calibre imo. I think the Blades crowd offers something you're dismissing too readily

His understanding of football is what mattered. That has been less impressive over the last few months with dreadful signings, bizarre selections, and inflexible tactics, though I want him to stay.

PS Every club thinks their fans are special, I’ve even met Arsenal fans who say it.

 

[ATL Recs]

IMO, without lockdown and with a full Lane, we'd be comfortably up. I appreciate others at the bottom would pick up more points, but I think a real Blades crowd would account for at least an extra 18 points.

What fairy under the tree crap ffs

 

[A Storm of Blades]

I’m a stuck record on this. The system that rocketed us through the leagues needed a 10. It was crucial to the overloading centre backs working. Having a quality player in an awkward central pocket, created an almost unsolvable problem for teams as they either had to;

1. Throw men wide to stop the overload, potentially leaving a Duffy free in the pocket; or
2. Mark the 10, and give us the overload ability wide.

I saw countless times in the flesh, team after team literally panic on the pitch trying to figure it out.

As soon as we went ‘flat’ we swept the leg of a key component of the system, and solved the problem for teams. Now clogging up the wide areas has no consequences, and we just overplay down closed corridors desperately trying to work an angle.

Swap Brewster for a Duffy 2.0 signing and revert to our 3-4-1-2 (for everyone except the truly exceptional) and I’m 100% convinced we’re nowhere near bottom.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

It was obvious when Man U ripped us a new one at their place last season that we needed players who could step into a back three without the quality dipping. That was more important than anything else and we spent £20 million on a kid ‘for the future’.

This ^

The most frustrating thing is the the 'mini season' post lockdown highlighted these glaring weaknesses yet we didn't address them. The evidence was there!

Norwood, Lundstram and Jimmy Fleck returned post lockdown shadows of their former selves - especially in the away games V Leicester, Man U, Newcastle.

Our response was to add Burke, Brewster and x2 reserve fullbacks...

That for me is when it went wrong.

 

[A Storm of Blades]

This ^

The most frustrating thing is the the 'mini season' post lockdown highlighted these glaring weaknesses yet we didn't address them. The evidence was there!

Norwood, Lundstram and Jimmy Fleck returned post lockdown shadows of their former selves - especially in the away games V Leicester, Man U, Newcastle.

Our response was to add Burke, Brewster and x2 reserve fullbacks...

That for me is when it went wrong.

100% agree. We had a free hit in the mini season. There were warning lights flashing in a few places and we chose to ignore them.

 

[BlairBlade]

Brewster is an intriguing one cos to me he feels like the kind of player you bring in when you're settled and looking to progress. I feel like we jumped the gun - although I expect him to be an absolute belter next season one league below

Not sure that intriguing is the way to go when you should be concentrating on the here and now.

 

[BlairBlade]

In hindsight, the defeats at the Etihad and Anfield in late December 2019 and January 2020. We were brilliant against City, robbed by a ridiculous VAR decision and the ref gifting them a goal. We looked like we believed we could beat anyone. A couple of days later we looked very tired and got taken to school by Liverpool. It was the first time an opposition manager seemed to have worked us out.

About this time, Mousset dropped out of the team and has never looked the same since. McBurnie started to play a bigger role and our football became more direct. We got some terrific results before lockdown in March but a couple of them were quite lucky and we seemed to be relying more on a tight defence. Berge was signed but immediately played out of position in Lunny’s role and we all know how that worked out. With the exception of a handful of games we’ve never really looked the same since.

Can anyone explain why “our best and most gifted player” was played out of position?
I know CW mentioned he was going to build a team around him, then said he expects him to go, but doesn’t want the Prince to sell anyone, etc., etc.

 

[Stu_Blade]

People like a scapegoat at the end of the day we haven't been competitive on the pitch. Although not been smashed 9-0 anywhere yet we haven't done enough. Although a 20 year old Brewster gets blame because of his price tag. Based on a 20 goal a season at Swansea I can see why but it wasn't exactly like Rooney when he was 20, 15 goals at Everton and following that up at Man U. Although Wilder should go down as the best Blades manager in modern history, ultimately we had a squad that needed and relied on each other and I think the dressing room has gone. Wilder hasn't lost it however we had the old fashioned FA Cup style of playing out of our skins and when you don't keep the pace and enthusiasm you need quality and unfortunately we don't have that in bucket loads. The overlapping speed of League 1 (100 point season) and passion of the 4-2 win over the pigs to promotion and 9th place finished gained confidence and enthusiasm but that momentum is easily lost and when quality reigns supreme we look average because ultimately we are. The club needs us as ever and to be honest can't wait to be back at the lane.

 

[EddieColquhoun]

I totally believe Chris brought Brewster in because us fans expected someone in. And after we missed out on our no1 signings Chris just blew it on him. His signing was a mistake but I get why it happened. And I feel us fans are partly to blame.

If the manager gets it right he's a genius. If he gets it wrong it's the fans fault?
Chansiri blamed the Wendy fans for the Rhodes signing. You're using Chansiri logic.

 

[DazBlade88]

I think the pandemic hitting was the key turning point to where we are now.

There's been mistakes made before and since so it's not the deciding factor but when you compare everything about the club before and after, it has had a big effect.

 

[LudlamBlade]

I’m a stuck record on this. The system that rocketed us through the leagues needed a 10. It was crucial to the overloading centre backs working. Having a quality player in an awkward central pocket, created an almost unsolvable problem for teams as they either had to;

1. Throw men wide to stop the overload, potentially leaving a Duffy free in the pocket; or
2. Mark the 10, and give us the overload ability wide.

I saw countless times in the flesh, team after team literally panic on the pitch trying to figure it out.

As soon as we went ‘flat’ we swept the leg of a key component of the system, and solved the problem for teams. Now clogging up the wide areas has no consequences, and we just overplay down closed corridors desperately trying to work an angle.

Swap Brewster for a Duffy 2.0 signing and revert to our 3-4-1-2 (for everyone except the truly exceptional) and I’m 100% convinced we’re nowhere near bottom.

You do know we finished 9th with that system right?

The one without a ten.

In the PL.

After Duffy had left.

 

[A Storm of Blades]

You do know we finished 9th with that system right?

The one without a ten.

In the PL.

After Duffy had left.

Yep. And I’m saying we would have done possibly better with a 10. I’m going that bold. We didn’t need to reinforce the defence. We were promoted with the 2nd best defensive record in the Championship. We weren’t Norwich, that clearly had a suspect backline. We sacrificed a crucial aspect of the system, for the benefit of a defence that was absolutely fine.

 

[1973Blade]

For me it was his first match in charge when we lost 1-0 at Bolton. Yes, he papered over the cracks by going on to win the league with 100 points, score four the following season at Hillsborough, then win promotion to the Premier League, before going on to finishing in the top half with us seriously thinking we could qualify for Europe. But for me the signs were there on that first game.

 

[LudlamBlade]

Yep. And I’m saying we would have done possibly better with a 10. I’m going that bold. We didn’t need to reinforce the defence. We were promoted with the 2nd best defensive record in the Championship. We weren’t Norwich, that clearly had a suspect backline. We sacrificed a crucial aspect of the system, for the benefit of a defence that was absolutely fine.

I don't think the defence was ever fine, I think the first choice defenders were fine, but the defence as a whole was awful for PL level.

Having one good choice option for each CB position doesn't make a good PL defence!

I think CW has made some mistakes during the last couple of years but I have to say I agreed with him when he said we'd get torn apart playing 5-2-1-2 with a 10.

The midfield gets bypassed so easily already, imagine it with one less body in there!

 

[riselikeasalmon]

We could all see and CW even said it that ‘the system’ wasn’t built around individual brilliance or skill but needed everyone to be at a 9 or 10 for it to work.

somehow last season that happened but expecting those exceptional (they were) performance levels to continue while trying to evolve and integrate new ‘skill sets’ in a system not overly reliant on skill (other than Bash’s mazy runs) was always going to be tough.

we had to evolve and improve parts of the team, the players that have come in largely haven’t done that and the 9s and 10s have turned into 4s, 5s and 6s.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

Yep. And I’m saying we would have done possibly better with a 10. I’m going that bold. We didn’t need to reinforce the defence. We were promoted with the 2nd best defensive record in the Championship. We weren’t Norwich, that clearly had a suspect backline. We sacrificed a crucial aspect of the system, for the benefit of a defence that was absolutely fine.

I'd respectively disagree.

Wilder dispensed with the No 10 when he realised we'd spend most of the game out of possession so shape and solidity was more important. Exhibit A - the win at Everton.

Having a No 10 when we'd have 35-45% possession would be suicide. Plus Norwood could play the QB role from deeper.

The issue is, the PL became more athletic pre-lockdown and we haven't adjusted..

 

[A Storm of Blades]

I don't think the defence was ever fine, I think the first choice defenders were fine, but the defence as a whole was awful for PL level.

Having one good choice option for each CB position doesn't make a good PL defence!

I think CW has made some mistakes during the last couple of years but I have to say I agreed with him when he said we'd get torn apart playing 5-2-1-2 with a 10.

The midfield gets bypassed so easily already, imagine it with one less body in there!

Ahhh but you’re talking about cover, not changing the system. A lack of cover is a different issue entirely. I’m saying the system deployed with a 10, never left us defensively exposed. Quite the opposite in fact. There was no need to cut the legs off a system to fix an issue that didn’t exist, in my opinion.

 

[LudlamBlade]

Ahhh but you’re talking about cover, not changing the system. A lack of cover is a different issue entirely. I’m saying the system deployed with a 10, never left us defensively exposed. Quite the opposite in fact. There was no need to cut the legs off a system to fix an issue that didn’t exist, in my opinion.

I do see what you mean, but it's difficult to take evidence from playing Millwall, Sunderland and Preston and then apply it to playing Liverpool, Man U and Citeh!

Totally different kettle of fish in the PL.

The championship is famously one of the tightest leagues in Europe! Next to no teams are going to absolutely pull you apart 4 or 5 nil in the championship, not unless you're a real bottom of the table candidate.

Not slating your opinion or owt btw mate, just a discussion! Felt best to say it cos I know that we're all a bit emotional at moment

 

[A Storm of Blades]

I'd respectively disagree.

Wilder dispensed with the No 10 when he realised we'd spend most of the game out of possession so shape and solidity was more important. Exhibit A - the win at Everton.

Having a No 10 when we'd have 35-45% possession would be suicide. Plus Norwood could play the QB role from deeper.

The issue is, the PL became more athletic pre-lockdown and we haven't adjusted..

I’m not saying the 10 should have always been deployed. In the Championship we would sometimes go flat (Leeds) when needed. However, when the situation called for it, we would absolute belt teams into oblivion using the 10. Pressure wave after wave, like a pride of lions circling a wounded animal. At times, I’d never seen anything quite like it.

I can think of at least a dozen games last year where teams were there for the taking, and we would have had (more) joy adopting an attacking mindset.

 

[LudlamBlade]

I’m not saying the 10 should have always been deployed. In the Championship we would sometimes go flat (Leeds) when needed. However, when the situation called for it, we would absolute belt teams into oblivion using the 10. Pressure wave after wave, like a pride of lions circling a wounded animal. At times, I’d never seen anything quite like it.

I can think of at least a dozen games last year where teams were there for the taking, and we would have had (more) joy adopting an attacking mindset.

When you put it like that I see your point a lot more!

Using it sparingly against the likes of Burnley, Palace, Brighton, Newcastle etc (even West Brom and Fulham this year) would possibly (probably?) have bagged us an extra few points

 

[A Storm of Blades]

When you put it like that I see your point a lot more!

Using it sparingly against the likes of Burnley, Palace, Brighton, Newcastle etc (even West Brom and Fulham this year) would possibly (probably?) have bagged us an extra few points

I think we’re on the same page here. I know I’d probably be slagging off the 10 if we stuck to it rigidly (as we have the ‘flat 3’) and shipped 25 goals in games against the big boys