Chris Wilder's position as Sheffield United boss

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WTF for? An illustrative! We’d be better off signing my grandad and he’s been dead 15 years!
I think I`ll leave this conversation now. You don`t seem to to understand a general point about choices re young/old players, but have a bee in your bonnet about a particular player.
 

I think I`ll leave this conversation now. You don`t seem to to understand a general point about choices re young/old players, but have a bee in your bonnet about a particular player.
Yes I do. The fact is. He’d be neither use nor ornament for us.
 
I love how in the article it says Chris Wilder could point to the successes of Jesse Lingard, Matt Cash, Ollie Watkins and Ben Davies (who went to Liverpool) as proof that he knows what he’s doing in the transfer department because he identified them to the owners. Hardly a scouting masterclass that is it. If anything that is proof we need a director of football because Chris is clearly fishing in the wrong pond.
If identifying Lingard as a quality player WASN'T a scouting masterclass, after the rubbishing of him by some on this forum, we should close down 'Rumour Mill' immediately 😁
 
Etheridge and Deeney? One can’t run for toffee, mid 30’s, and he’s on about £60,000 a week. The other keeps chucking the ball into his own f#cking net!
Just examples but this last couple of month aside Rammers wasn't taking many plaudits and Brewster has no goals from 22 appearances. Deeney would have bettered that.

It was more the overall point than pinning my name to a Deeney/Etheridge mast.
 
Who's paying £20m+ for McBurnie because he reproved he's a good Championship forward?

As much as I don't agree with it that the going rate for strikers who have a good season in The Championship.

Adam Armstrong is apparently going to cost £25m this summer and I don't think he's that great. If a PL team take a punt on him this summer I think he'd probably end up like McBurnie has TBH.

How much of how McBurnie has performed is down to him or the team he's playing for? I personally thought once he got up to speed before the 1st lockdown he was decent. Since then like a lot of our players he's been found wanting but that doesn't mean in another team he would be as bad.
 
I've got a real suspicion that if CW were to leave, either sacked or resign, then PA would go for a "name" replacement.

I can't explain my exact reasoning for that statement but there's been various rumours of PA wanting a "marquee" signing since he got full control and I can't help think that would be the route he would go down for our replacement manager.

Whilst in the right circumstances I've no issue with this per se next season is going to be crucial in how we move forward as a club IMO.

If CW leaves then we just have to get his replacement right or we face the same situation we found ourselves in the last time we were relegated from the PL.

With that in mind I really don't want Lampard, Terry etc just because of their name.
 
Chris Wilder should remain manager of Sheffield United for as long as he is willing to do the job. He’s without doubt the best man for the job. No way we attract a better candidate. I can’t way to get back in to the Lane and sing proudly how much I appreciate his leadership. ‘He’s one of our own..’ !!!
 
Chris Wilder should remain manager of Sheffield United for as long as he is willing to do the job. He’s without doubt the best man for the job. No way we attract a better candidate. I can’t way to get back in to the Lane and sing proudly how much I appreciate his leadership. ‘He’s one of our own..’ !!!
One of the problem you have is whether the players are still listening to what he wants them to do. After so long, after hearing the same message over a few years, do the players just switch off? Not intentionally but they know what is going to be said but it is the same mundane message.
Do the players need a new voice ? A new coach giving a different perspective ?

If Wilder stays and we start next season playing the same turgid defensive football as this season and we arent picking up many points, his position, in my opinion, will become untenable very quickly.

I have doubts whether Wilder will be with us at the start of next season. If he has a good agent he/she will be contacting other clubs already where they are looking to change managers so CW can step in. He will agree a mutual agreement separation with the Board with both sides saying how wonderful each other are but it is time to move on.
This is just an opinion and not based on any ITK information.
 
One of the problem you have is whether the players are still listening to what he wants them to do. After so long, after hearing the same message over a few years, do the players just switch off? Not intentionally but they know what is going to be said but it is the same mundane message.
Do the players need a new voice ? A new coach giving a different perspective ?
And do they still wanna be at the club? Lunny is the obvious one because of his refusal to sign a contract, but doesnt mean he's not the only one. You can't tell me someone like McB is enjoying playing this type of football as a 'target man' in our system. Wouldn't be surprised if someone like him and others have asked their agents to orchestrate moves away 🤷‍♂️
 
I think his record in the transfer market over the last 2 seasons has been incredibly poor.
He may well have bought most players with a view to the future and they may well, all, come good.
Unfortunately that was not the correct thing to do, was it?
We are not a club who has the luxury of spending £120+ million on prospects.
We needed players who could produce the goods, do the job and make us better.
That has not happened.
I do not know what CW is playing at.

You can’t blame the Prince for not allowing 2 more signings in January.
Well I certainly don’t.
Let’s face it which players CW wanted would have come to the Lane and which, if any, would have made any difference?
I have been quite critical of some aspects of Wilder's management over the last 12 months, and no doubt looking at the recruits over that period it is possibly Wilder's worst period of signings for some years. However, as a club it is hard to sign the established players as well as compete for the up and coming players like Watkins and Cash without paying comparable wages. If they they are good players then the fee and/or the wages will be pushed up beyond your means very quickly meaning you are having to go after your second, third or perhaps even fourth choices. Take Callum Wilson as one example, there were 3 or 4 clubs looking to sign him which inflates his demands and prices you out of the market. The better players will be in higher demand and very quickly price the Blades out of contention. Obviously what follows is you end up with the less desirable signings or 'prospects' that you hope come good.

Unfortunately the likes of McBurnie, Brewster and Burke and up until recently Ramsdale have not thrived. A big part of this is they have been under extreme pressure all season and have come into a side bang out of form, confidence and cohesion (all the opposites of the previous couple of years). Time will tell if the signings prove to be value for money, at the moment it seems not but they all could still come good as Ramsdale is starting to do. The club at the moment are limited it seems in needing real value for money and not being able to compete on wages which leads to less than ideal signings I would say. Saying all that I think Wilder has for a big part of the season done what he accused the players of after the Southampton result of doing which is 'throwing in the towel'.
 
Some people have very short term memories if you consider CW's recruitment "brilliant" up until the Premier League. For every Duffy and Fleck there's a Carruthers and Evans. Which places his transfer record hit and miss at best.

He spent 3 or 4 windows chasing Ryan Leonard, Wilder was the cat that got the cream once we eventually signed him, and then proceeded to play him what... twice?? Similar story with Ricky Holmes (a player who Wilder had previously managed at Northampton). As an owner I would be asking questions of my manager if he's putting that much energy into signing players that never yield a thing for the team.

Ironically I think the recruitment last summer was significantly better than both windows in the previous season. At least there was a sense of long term squad rebuilding. But last year was very much a take a punt approach (which I think underlines Wilder's recruitment strategy full stop). And this might have been perfectly sustainable for a club our size in L1 and the Championship. But when you get to the Prem and with the fees and wages involved, the punts that don't come off are much more costly. And perhaps the board is taking more notice of this now. Last season we broke the club's transfer record with three consecutive signings, all of which turned out to be duds.

Anything that can make our recruitment more consistent and successful is welcomed by me. Whether that's a DoF or an investment in overhauling the scouting network I don't know.
Leonard.
Lee Evans.
Holmes.
James Wilson the 2nd.
Early 2018 recruitment wasn't a success.
 
I have been quite critical of some aspects of Wilder's management over the last 12 months, and no doubt looking at the recruits over that period it is possibly Wilder's worst period of signings for some years. However, as a club it is hard to sign the established players as well as compete for the up and coming players like Watkins and Cash without paying comparable wages. If they they are good players then the fee and/or the wages will be pushed up beyond your means very quickly meaning you are having to go after your second, third or perhaps even fourth choices. Take Callum Wilson as one example, there were 3 or 4 clubs looking to sign him which inflates his demands and prices you out of the market. The better players will be in higher demand and very quickly price the Blades out of contention. Obviously what follows is you end up with the less desirable signings or 'prospects' that you hope come good.

Unfortunately the likes of McBurnie, Brewster and Burke and up until recently Ramsdale have not thrived. A big part of this is they have been under extreme pressure all season and have come into a side bang out of form, confidence and cohesion (all the opposites of the previous couple of years). Time will tell if the signings prove to be value for money, at the moment it seems not but they all could still come good as Ramsdale is starting to do. The club at the moment are limited it seems in needing real value for money and not being able to compete on wages which leads to less than ideal signings I would say. Saying all that I think Wilder has for a big part of the season done what he accused the players of after the Southampton result of doing which is 'throwing in the towel'.
Absolutely right.
But that simply shows how inadequate our set-up is and/or what a lot of help CW needs (but perhaps refuses?) and how reliant we are on someone who does not have the experience to look abroad.
Obviously, that is not simply all on CW's shoulders but no doubt that is why there is now such a lot of stuff about a DoF. Perhaps we need one.
I have no doubt a lot of this comes down to money.
However, with all the money in the world surely we would like to be able to field a team that does not have to play to one rigid system?
 
Just examples but this last couple of month aside Rammers wasn't taking many plaudits and Brewster has no goals from 22 appearances. Deeney would have bettered that.

It was more the overall point than pinning my name to a Deeney/Etheridge mast.
Examples? You’ve quoted these same two players on more than one occasion! They’re simply not good enough. Now if you’d have said Iversen at £6/8m, you’d have had a point. Or some 20 year old Croatian ripping it up, with a £15m price tag, fair enough. The fact that we live in a world where we can get a burger and coffee within minutes and everything is now,now,now, has took away the fact that young players need time to bloom, as we’re seeing now with Ramsdale? I’d rather take one step back with England U21 internationals finding their feet than signing mercenaries on a last pay day with no sell on, not giving a flying you know what.
 
Examples? You’ve quoted these same two players on more than one occasion! They’re simply not good enough. Now if you’d have said Iversen at £6/8m, you’d have had a point. Or some 20 year old Croatian ripping it up, with a £15m price tag, fair enough. The fact that we live in a world where we can get a burger and coffee within minutes and everything is now,now,now, has took away the fact that young players need time to bloom, as we’re seeing now with Ramsdale? I’d rather take one step back with England U21 internationals finding their feet than signing mercenaries on a last pay day with no sell on, not giving a flying you know what.
Don't you think it might have been a good idea to, say, mix things up and get in some young players and other players with PL experience? I am convinced that one problem this season is that every single one of our new recruits was too raw.
 
Absolutely right.
But that simply shows how inadequate our set-up is and/or what a lot of help CW needs (but perhaps refuses?) and how reliant we are on someone who does not have the experience to look abroad.
Obviously, that is not simply all on CW's shoulders but no doubt that is why there is now such a lot of stuff about a DoF. Perhaps we need one.
I have no doubt a lot of this comes down to money.
However, with all the money in the world surely we would like to be able to field a team that does not have to play to one rigid system?
Yes, I agree that Wilder does need more help and support (I stated as much a few months ago when he looked beaten). Having followed Wilder since his Halifax days (and Knill tbh) I always found even from his Halifax days that Wilder often gets more out of the defensive players than the creative players. Of course this makes sense given he was a defender along with Knill. I think he certainly needs a couple of coaches who can get the best out of the forward players and as you say perhaps a DoF. If I were you I would be going all out for someone like Rafa Benitez for the DoF role; a wealth of experience, contacts throughout the world and a proven track record of finding gems. You would also imagine that he will be winding down his career over the next few years and still lives locally in the Merseyside area. On top of that he is tactically astute.

I think to be a little fair to Wilder, everything that could have gone wrong over the past 12 months has gone wrong. Players badly dropping off in form, key injuries and perhaps a number of players who were punching above their natural level now playing to their level again. No doubt Wilder also has to take some of the flak too, I personally feel he lost his own focus for 12 games or so whilst he sulked which is unforgiveable really.
 

Examples? You’ve quoted these same two players on more than one occasion! They’re simply not good enough. Now if you’d have said Iversen at £6/8m, you’d have had a point. Or some 20 year old Croatian ripping it up, with a £15m price tag, fair enough. The fact that we live in a world where we can get a burger and coffee within minutes and everything is now,now,now, has took away the fact that young players need time to bloom, as we’re seeing now with Ramsdale? I’d rather take one step back with England U21 internationals finding their feet than signing mercenaries on a last pay day with no sell on, not giving a flying you know what.
They are just examples. You could take say King of Bournemouth and Romero of Man U on loan, Danny Ward of Leicester. We could sit here all day and give examples of more experienced players but what is clear is we decided to lavish very large fees and have just gone for youth alone. The hope was the current XI that finished the season would hold their own with little help.

It is a gamble and it has failed. Although you mention accepting taking one step back, there is no guarantee they will become good enough to get us back up and take one step forward again. I hope they do. We all hope they do.

I'm pretty sure Deeney or King would have made more impact than Brewster. It would have been hard not to. Likewise an experienced keeper would not have created so much doubt in the defence in the period before Christmas. Ramsdale might just end up in credit and we end up taking the medicine for a great career with us. I hope. We all do. But having finished 9th, I'm not convinced absolutely every signing had to effectively be an unproven punt.

We chose the wrong transfer strategy and it's got us relegated. Maybe we would have gone down anyway but none of the current XI, having read how we'd raked in 130m, would have thought 'here comes a proven player to share the burden' and that is what was needed. Brighton did this with Wellbeck and Lallana. They have played nowhere near as much as they would have liked, but they could be the difference between staying up and not.

At some point there was an assumption made that the current team were better than they actually were and from there some not very good plans were made.
 
They are just examples. You could take say King of Bournemouth and Romero of Man U on loan, Danny Ward of Leicester. We could sit here all day and give examples of more experienced players but what is clear is we decided to lavish very large fees and have just gone for youth alone. The hope was the current XI that finished the season would hold their own with little help.

It is a gamble and it has failed. Although you mention accepting taking one step back, there is no guarantee they will become good enough to get us back up and take one step forward again. I hope they do. We all hope they do.

I'm pretty sure Deeney or King would have made more impact than Brewster. It would have been hard not to. Likewise an experienced keeper would not have created so much doubt in the defence in the period before Christmas. Ramsdale might just end up in credit and we end up taking the medicine for a great career with us. I hope. We all do. But having finished 9th, I'm not convinced absolutely every signing had to effectively be an unproven punt.

We chose the wrong transfer strategy and it's got us relegated. Maybe we would have gone down anyway but none of the current XI, having read how we'd raked in 130m, would have thought 'here comes a proven player to share the burden' and that is what was needed. Brighton did this with Wellbeck and Lallana. They have played nowhere near as much as they would have liked, but they could be the difference between staying up and not.

At some point there was an assumption made that the current team were better than they actually were and from there some not very good plans were made.
We chose the right transfer strategy because that’s all our budget would allow?
 
Weve been desperate for any sort of shit lining goals this season

Honestly can't remember us scoring a 6 inch tap in
 
Which other clubs in the Premier League have wealthy owners that are providing funding for their clubs at the current time.? I do state Premier League clubs, not clubs who were in the Championship where their owners provided funds to get them promoted. I do mean owners that are funding clubs at the current time.
I think Fulham & Villa are two that immediately come to mind ....

UTB & FTP
 
I would trust noone more to rebuild this squad, his club, in the Championship. I'm thinking long term, like Burnley, Brighton, Southampton, Norwich, Leicester. Gradually build together, even if it means setbacks on the way.

I think this season is one massive setback be hard pressed to beat it. We can wave goodbye to Barnsley as they go the other way into the PL and McB might jump ship to them.
 
We chose the right transfer strategy because that’s all our budget would allow?
Is that true though?

Fulham took a different approach.

They signed a lot of foreign loan players, for nowhere near the 52m in fees we spent on Rammers, Bogle, Lowe, Brewster.

But on much higher wages.

When the counting is done they may well have stayed up.
 
Is that true though?

Fulham took a different approach.

They signed a lot of foreign loan players, for nowhere near the 52m in fees we spent on Rammers, Bogle, Lowe, Brewster.

But on much higher wages.

When the counting is done they may well have stayed up.
They might at which point they’ll have made a great decision for this season. However that loan strategy isn’t sustainable long term and fairly soon they’ll have to start dishing out large fees aswell as wages.
 
They might at which point they’ll have made a great decision for this season. However that loan strategy isn’t sustainable long term and fairly soon they’ll have to start dishing out large fees aswell as wages.
Logically you'd think so. But maybe it's gradual. With an additional 130m, you add a couple of perms and take a couple less loans. Same again the following year.

At the stage we are at, another year and another 130m makes such a difference.what could we do with the facilities and the ground for instance?
 
To be fair they make a fair point we’ve spent more money than most in Europe and our best team consists on 90% of the team that took us up.

We’ve not spent well at all, I don’t how Wilder can argue against that or threaten to quit?

If anything he should hold his hands up
This is however on a "net" spend basis ....... given that we've not had any expensive players to sell, this is of questionable value to the debate :rolleyes:

UTB & FTP
 
Logically you'd think so. But maybe it's gradual. With an additional 130m, you add a couple of perms and take a couple less loans. Same again the following year.

At the stage we are at, another year and another 130m makes such a difference.what could we do with the facilities and the ground for instance?
I agree they could manage it well however there’s a fluidity to it as an approach which means you have a high variance in outcomes. So this year it’s worked great but next year you’re back a square one needing to have an equally good summer recruitment which isn’t likely given virtually no club has a continually good success rate with recruitment.
 

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