2021-22 PL Challenge

[SilkyBlade]

Many on here believe we will simply turn up next season in championship and walk in to the PL...so let’s have a closer look assuming the intention is to become an established PL team in 2022 and beyond. We and others before have shown the best chance of PL survival is to come up with the core of the team unchanged and able to compete;

1. Father Time has caught up with Norwood, Fleck, Stevens, Sharp, Jags - good servants but no pace to trouble even a championship team.
2. Egan and Berge likely to leave (I know we don’t have to sell but hard to keep players who don’t want to be here) Lundstram gone. Ampadu thankfully returns.
3. Osborne, Robinson, Lowe, Rodwell, Bryan, Freeman (as shown at Forest), Moore, Foderingham are simply not good enough for PL so little point investing in them if now know not good enough.
4. Bash and Didsy will likely be too old for ‘22 PL season.
5. Mousset, a mercurial talent, cannot take up one of our playing spots when only playing 1/4 games.
6. What’s left? Ramsdale (yes he has an error in him but will be fine), Baldock, Bogle, JOC (can’t see anyone paying big bucks after injury), McBurnie, Burke, Brewster (I am reserving judgement on all strikers as the service from midfield has been non-existent this season.
7. I think this highlights very poor succession planning/recruitment (especially as no cover for Egan/JOC) and severe lack of depth in squad given the gaping holes in midfield and points to a major rebuild required if stick with Wilder and new players need to learn system rather than a simple bounce back. This suggests we may indeed need to sell Egan/Berge to bring in raft of new players.
8. I have assumed Prince is sticking with Wilder next season as if he was going to sack him he would have done it by now. It is hoped that Wilder learns the importance of coaching the players to be equally adept at min 2 or more systems.
9. The only sensible conclusion i can arrive at is that it will be a mighty struggle to bounce straight back based on the fact that existing playing staff is now not good enough (time does not stand still and many players last season reached their summit) and it will take time for new players to learn their roles in new multi-systems.

 

[bakeblade]

Many on here believe we will simply turn up next season in championship and walk in to the PL...so let’s have a closer look assuming the intention is to become an established PL team in 2022 and beyond. We and others before have shown the best chance of PL survival is to come up with the core of the team unchanged and able to compete;

1. Father Time has caught up with Norwood, Fleck, Stevens, Sharp, Jags - good servants but no pace to trouble even a championship team.
2. Egan and Berge likely to leave (I know we don’t have to sell but hard to keep players who don’t want to be here) Lundstram gone. Ampadu thankfully returns.
3. Osborne, Robinson, Lowe, Rodwell, Bryan, Freeman (as shown at Forest), Moore, Foderingham are simply not good enough for PL so little point investing in them if now know not good enough.
4. Bash and Didsy will likely be too old for ‘22 PL season.
5. Mousset, a mercurial talent, cannot take up one of our playing spots when only playing 1/4 games.
6. What’s left? Ramsdale (yes he has an error in him but will be fine), Baldock, Bogle, JOC (can’t see anyone paying big bucks after injury), McBurnie, Burke, Brewster (I am reserving judgement on all strikers as the service from midfield has been non-existent this season.
7. I think this highlights very poor succession planning/recruitment (especially as no cover for Egan/JOC) and severe lack of depth in squad given the gaping holes in midfield and points to a major rebuild required if stick with Wilder and new players need to learn system rather than a simple bounce back. This suggests we may indeed need to sell Egan/Berge to bring in raft of new players.
8. I have assumed Prince is sticking with Wilder next season as if he was going to sack him he would have done it by now. It is hoped that Wilder learns the importance of coaching the players to be equally adept at min 2 or more systems.
9. The only sensible conclusion i can arrive at is that it will be a mighty struggle to bounce straight back based on the fact that existing playing staff is now not good enough (time does not stand still and many players last season reached their summit) and it will take time for new players to learn their roles in new multi-systems.

Norwood and Fleck are 29, Stevens 30 hardly OAPs. I agree they seem to have 'gone', but not due to age surely

 

[robbiez666]

Norwood and Fleck are 29, Stevens 30 hardly OAPs. I agree they seem to have 'gone', but not due to age surely

Worth noting that footballers only have a certain amount of running in their legs and I suspect all 3 of those players probably do twice as much of it as they did at previous clubs.

 

[Yogi]

Worth noting that footballers only have a certain amount of running in their legs and I suspect all 3 of those players probably do twice as much of it as they did at previous clubs.

Agreed lots has been made of how we “trained like spurs” under poch that squad hit a wall where it couldn’t run anymore we appear to have hit the same wall but with far less talented players.

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

Many on here believe we will simply turn up next season in championship and walk in to the PL...

I've not seen one single person on this forum post anything of the sort.

 

[S40BLADE]

Many on here believe we will simply turn up next season in championship and walk in to the PL...so let’s have a closer look assuming the intention is to become an established PL team in 2022 and beyond. We and others before have shown the best chance of PL survival is to come up with the core of the team unchanged and able to compete;

1. Father Time has caught up with Norwood, Fleck, Stevens, Sharp, Jags - good servants but no pace to trouble even a championship team.
2. Egan and Berge likely to leave (I know we don’t have to sell but hard to keep players who don’t want to be here) Lundstram gone. Ampadu thankfully returns.
3. Osborne, Robinson, Lowe, Rodwell, Bryan, Freeman (as shown at Forest), Moore, Foderingham are simply not good enough for PL so little point investing in them if now know not good enough.
4. Bash and Didsy will likely be too old for ‘22 PL season.
5. Mousset, a mercurial talent, cannot take up one of our playing spots when only playing 1/4 games.
6. What’s left? Ramsdale (yes he has an error in him but will be fine), Baldock, Bogle, JOC (can’t see anyone paying big bucks after injury), McBurnie, Burke, Brewster (I am reserving judgement on all strikers as the service from midfield has been non-existent this season.
7. I think this highlights very poor succession planning/recruitment (especially as no cover for Egan/JOC) and severe lack of depth in squad given the gaping holes in midfield and points to a major rebuild required if stick with Wilder and new players need to learn system rather than a simple bounce back. This suggests we may indeed need to sell Egan/Berge to bring in raft of new players.
8. I have assumed Prince is sticking with Wilder next season as if he was going to sack him he would have done it by now. It is hoped that Wilder learns the importance of coaching the players to be equally adept at min 2 or more systems.
9. The only sensible conclusion i can arrive at is that it will be a mighty struggle to bounce straight back based on the fact that existing playing staff is now not good enough (time does not stand still and many players last season reached their summit) and it will take time for new players to learn their roles in new multi-systems.

A fantastic and well thought out post. I agree that this bounce back people talk about is being considerably underestimated, Our lack of speed, power and technical ability is glaring for any level of football never mind the premier league. Things need to be getting planned as soon as possible but im not very optimistic as no evidence of such reconstruction is easy to see ATM.

 

[Yogi]

Many on here believe we will simply turn up next season in championship and walk in to the PL...so let’s have a closer look assuming the intention is to become an established PL team in 2022 and beyond. We and others before have shown the best chance of PL survival is to come up with the core of the team unchanged and able to compete;

1. Father Time has caught up with Norwood, Fleck, Stevens, Sharp, Jags - good servants but no pace to trouble even a championship team.
2. Egan and Berge likely to leave (I know we don’t have to sell but hard to keep players who don’t want to be here) Lundstram gone. Ampadu thankfully returns.
3. Osborne, Robinson, Lowe, Rodwell, Bryan, Freeman (as shown at Forest), Moore, Foderingham are simply not good enough for PL so little point investing in them if now know not good enough.
4. Bash and Didsy will likely be too old for ‘22 PL season.
5. Mousset, a mercurial talent, cannot take up one of our playing spots when only playing 1/4 games.
6. What’s left? Ramsdale (yes he has an error in him but will be fine), Baldock, Bogle, JOC (can’t see anyone paying big bucks after injury), McBurnie, Burke, Brewster (I am reserving judgement on all strikers as the service from midfield has been non-existent this season.
7. I think this highlights very poor succession planning/recruitment (especially as no cover for Egan/JOC) and severe lack of depth in squad given the gaping holes in midfield and points to a major rebuild required if stick with Wilder and new players need to learn system rather than a simple bounce back. This suggests we may indeed need to sell Egan/Berge to bring in raft of new players.
8. I have assumed Prince is sticking with Wilder next season as if he was going to sack him he would have done it by now. It is hoped that Wilder learns the importance of coaching the players to be equally adept at min 2 or more systems.
9. The only sensible conclusion i can arrive at is that it will be a mighty struggle to bounce straight back based on the fact that existing playing staff is now not good enough (time does not stand still and many players last season reached their summit) and it will take time for new players to learn their roles in new multi-systems.

I’m happy with our attacking options going into next year maybe with Mousset moving on and another coming in. As we have both youth and depth in this position.

I’m happy with our options at fullback aswell. I think George will get a prem move but bogle and RND as two young attacking fullbacks in the champ is fine by me maybe with an experienced head brought in to back up bogle with either Osborn or Lowe competing with RND.

I’m happy at goal keeper as Ramsdale is being let down by his defence currently imo though he does have a mistake in him and Moore is adequate champ back up.

it’s in midfield and centreback where we will have to focus our recruitment imo we need 2 centre mids and an attacking mid in as a priority they need to be a good age to grow and develop with the rest of the group. At centreback we need to bring in the succession planning you’re talking about a Basham successor needs to be identified and brought in alongside a player who can cover/compete with JOC and Egan.

It’s not necessarily about an immediate return (although that should be the goal) it’s about using the competitive advantage of parachute payments to build a core capable of taking us on another 5-6 year cycle.

 

[bakeblade]

Worth noting that footballers only have a certain amount of running in their legs and I suspect all 3 of those players probably do twice as much of it as they did at previous clubs.

More likely it's the way they look after themselves with diet etc. Fleck and Norwood look out of shape

 

[robbiez666]

Many on here believe we will simply turn up next season in championship and walk in to the PL...so let’s have a closer look assuming the intention is to become an established PL team in 2022 and beyond. We and others before have shown the best chance of PL survival is to come up with the core of the team unchanged and able to compete;

1. Father Time has caught up with Norwood, Fleck, Stevens, Sharp, Jags - good servants but no pace to trouble even a championship team.
2. Egan and Berge likely to leave (I know we don’t have to sell but hard to keep players who don’t want to be here) Lundstram gone. Ampadu thankfully returns.
3. Osborne, Robinson, Lowe, Rodwell, Bryan, Freeman (as shown at Forest), Moore, Foderingham are simply not good enough for PL so little point investing in them if now know not good enough.
4. Bash and Didsy will likely be too old for ‘22 PL season.
5. Mousset, a mercurial talent, cannot take up one of our playing spots when only playing 1/4 games.
6. What’s left? Ramsdale (yes he has an error in him but will be fine), Baldock, Bogle, JOC (can’t see anyone paying big bucks after injury), McBurnie, Burke, Brewster (I am reserving judgement on all strikers as the service from midfield has been non-existent this season.
7. I think this highlights very poor succession planning/recruitment (especially as no cover for Egan/JOC) and severe lack of depth in squad given the gaping holes in midfield and points to a major rebuild required if stick with Wilder and new players need to learn system rather than a simple bounce back. This suggests we may indeed need to sell Egan/Berge to bring in raft of new players.
8. I have assumed Prince is sticking with Wilder next season as if he was going to sack him he would have done it by now. It is hoped that Wilder learns the importance of coaching the players to be equally adept at min 2 or more systems.
9. The only sensible conclusion i can arrive at is that it will be a mighty struggle to bounce straight back based on the fact that existing playing staff is now not good enough (time does not stand still and many players last season reached their summit) and it will take time for new players to learn their roles in new multi-systems.

I think we'll need to replace half our team but we have very little in terms of sellable assets given the wages they'll be on.

I suspect we'll be unable to move surplus players on and will not have the money or the will to spend the money to produce a team to go back up

There's also the question whether going back up will just be us being in a similar situation to where we are now. Not looking abroad, signing Championship players for far too much money. No development players ready to step up. In a perfect world we'd probably spend a couple of seasons in the Championship putting all that in place and then go up but we know just how difficult it is to get promotion.

 

[SilkyBlade]

Norwood and Fleck are 29, Stevens 30 hardly OAPs. I agree they seem to have 'gone', but not due to age surely

The legs simply go at different ages for different players. I remember Torres at Pool had genuine pace then signed for Chelsea (28 I think) and over one summer had lost that critical yard and never looked the same player. Unfortunately it has come to Norwood/Stevens/Fleck now look very rushed in possession and the ease with which opposition players outpace them is frightening.

 

[BanderSerge]

The legs simply go at different ages for different players. I remember Torres at Pool had genuine pace then signed for Chelsea (28 I think) and over one summer had lost that critical yard and never looked the same player. Unfortunately it has come to Norwood/Stevens/Fleck now look very rushed in possession and the ease with which opposition players outpace them is frightening.

You forgot to add in the premier league to that statement. The championship is shit. CWAK will, as Farke has, rip it a new one.

 

[bakeblade]

The legs simply go at different ages for different players. I remember Torres at Pool had genuine pace then signed for Chelsea (28 I think) and over one summer had lost that critical yard and never looked the same player. Unfortunately it has come to Norwood/Stevens/Fleck now look very rushed in possession and the ease with which opposition players outpace them is frightening.

Makes you wonder why we gave them both 3 year contracts then

 

[robbiez666]

The legs simply go at different ages for different players. I remember Torres at Pool had genuine pace then signed for Chelsea (28 I think) and over one summer had lost that critical yard and never looked the same player. Unfortunately it has come to Norwood/Stevens/Fleck now look very rushed in possession and the ease with which opposition players outpace them is frightening.

I feel a bit sorry for Enda. I think he's been doing pretty well going forward over the last two games but struggles badly as LCB. I think he's been much more dangerous going forward that George. The problem is, neither can bomb on like before because they're pushed back and they no we're likely to lose the ball as there's no midfield. I do think he's lost a yard of pace and lost a lot of confidence

 

[bakeblade]

You forgot to add in the premier league to that statement. The championship is shit. CWAK will, as Farke has, rip it a new one.

If you think that I'm afraid you are deluded

 

[Stevo]

At least we will have no shitty VAR

 

[BanderSerge]

If you think that I'm afraid you are deluded

I’m basing it on historical fact

 

[SilkyBlade]

Makes you wonder why we gave them both 3 year contracts then

I think they deserved it after last seasons exploits but even CWAK must be shocked how off the pace they now look

 

[ChipButtyBlade]

No bounce back with this squad,Wilder has sqeezed the shit out of them.

The wilderness years will return,i fear.

 

[Geordie Blade]

2. Egan and Berge likely to leave (I know we don’t have to sell but hard to keep players who don’t want to be here)

Absolutely no chance that a PL team will want Egan.