The football clubs embody the city...

[Webding]

There’s a lot of reasons behind the small-town mentality (and backward-thinking council decisions), but the heart of the problem is simply that Sheffield is actually a small city, always has been. City boundaries and basing size on population has only ever disguised that. Leeds and Manchester aren’t a valid comparison really - we’ve always been more of a Nottingham or even Leicester in terms of what the city centre itself has got about it (and therefore how attractive it is for businesses).

Still love the place though.

 

[Wincobank S9 Blade]

I get that mate, but I don't agree with some of the stuff on here, so I'll defend the Council to a greater extent. Manchester is a bigger city to Sheffield, more presence and appeal and didn't suffer like Sheffield did in the same way in my view due to the closer of pits and steel not been the industry it was. Leeds is a better comparison, but again Leeds has different demographics and a different economy to Sheffield. Whether Sheffield could have remarketted itself like Leeds has done as the financial centre for the north I don't know, but I'd guess some of that infrastructure was there in the first place. Sheffield as far as I can rememeber is reliant on public sector work more than most other cities, that's another factor.

Surprisingly I think Sheffield is a bigger city and more populated than Manchester it’s just people assume greater Manchester as a whole which is a city region like South Yorkshire for instance and I think Leeds is slightly bigger than both tbh but get what you mean as an economy etc they excel more

 

[cahill]

I’m born and bred Sheffield and will always love the city but it has always seemed like other northern cities are ahead of us both in real life and in football. Look at Leeds and Manchester and the cultural powerhouses they’ve become in comparison to Sheffield where there is very little investment other than Chinese student living. This reflects the football sides who have both become close (one more so than the other) to being a regular premier league fixture yet a lack of investment has led to their downfall. Sheffield is the birthplace of football yet it’s hardly made a fuss out of- if it was in Manchester you know there’d be museums and a lot more info about it nationwide. Just seems like this city is always gonna be second best.

Manchester and Leeds both much bigger cities with a larger catchment area. Both media hubs. Both much bigger financial centres/sectors/stock exchanges.

Sheffield is what Sheffield is. A decaying formerly heavy industrial centre.

So what, support your local team(s) or dont

UTB

 

[cahill]

There’s a lot of reasons behind the small-town mentality (and backward-thinking council decisions), but the heart of the problem is simply that Sheffield is actually a small city, always has been. City boundaries and basing size on population has only ever disguised that. Leeds and Manchester aren’t a valid comparison really - we’ve always been more of a Nottingham or even Leicester in terms of what the city centre itself has got about it (and therefore how attractive it is for businesses).

Still love the place though.

Leicestershire has a population of about 800,00. Nottingham Urban Area is similar size with one team to support.

 

[Wincobank S9 Blade]

Leicestershire has a population of about 800,00. Nottingham Urban Area is similar size with one team to support.

Urban area I think SY about 6th on list in terms of the city itself Sheffield’s behind Birmingham and Leeds that’s it but you hit nail on the head they have bigger catchment areas city regions buffer towns what ever you want to call it like you say is what it is support local

 

[cahill]

Urban area I think SY about 6th on list in terms of the city itself Sheffield’s behind Birmingham and Leeds that’s it but you hit nail on the head they have bigger catchment areas city regions buffer states what ever you want to call it like you say is what it is support local

Cheers mate. Greater Manchester is huge. Merseyside has a bigger population than South Yorkshire as has Tyneside. The Hampshire conurbation of Portsmouth, Southampton, Gosport etc is also bigger, I think ?

 

[Wincobank S9 Blade]

Leicestershire has a population of about 800,00. Nottingham Urban Area is similar size with one team to support.

Urban area I think SY about 6th on list in terms of the city itself Sheffield’s behind Birmingham and Leeds that’s it but you hit nail on the head they have bigger catchment areas city regions buffer states what ever you want to call it like you say is what it is

Cheers mate. Greater Manchester is huge. Merseyside has a bigger population than South Yorkshire as has Tyneside. The Hampshire conurbation of Portsmouth, Southampton, Gosport etc is also bigger, I think ?

Obs London is biggest then greater Manchester like you say is huge then West Midlands I think even Liverpool city region and Tyne.and wear like you say I might be wrong been a long time since I studied it because a lot of censuses are on the regions not the individual town or city

 

[LudlamBlade]

The lack of an airport has surely done the city in, in the modern era. Everywhere else has one bar us, cant be good for attracting global / european business / investment to the area. Even Donny airport is a good 45-60 mins away, more if the traffics against you! that and a lack of marketing of what the city could / can offer also must be a reason. Late 90's we had the best sports facilities in the country, rarely got mentioned. Nowadays places like Kelham Island should be a goldmine but they remain a secret.
Im in my early 40's but its always seemed like the city is behind others in the county, London (clearly head and shoulders the best place!), Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds, Bristol, York, Leeds, Newcastle and potentially Nottingham (although not been there for years) are way way out in front of Sheffield.

I'll go with you on all of those except Nottingham...

It's about as nice as sucking a boil off the arse of a warthog.

 

[LudlamBlade]

I think you might be right there...

Sheffield City Council : "We got bombed in the war more than Leeds did, so we're still recovering from that"

Anyone with a brain : "You do know the war was 80 years ago, right?"

 

[Booker4]

Manchester and Leeds both much bigger cities with a larger catchment area. Both media hubs. Both much bigger financial centres/sectors/stock exchanges.

Sheffield is what Sheffield is. A decaying formerly heavy industrial centre.

So what, support your local team(s) or dont

UTB

I largely agree, although don't think we're decaying, but I do wonder how Leeds trasitioned to its present success as a media and financial service base whilst Sheffield lagged behind. My thoughts are we suffered under the decline from the coal and steel base whereas Leeds wasn't reliant on that. The Leeds city centre has a much more appealing look to it, in terms of architecture, the train station and just the commercial appeal of the place - hate saying that. But I do think Sheffield has it's own appeal and when you speak to people that move here they love Sheffield for the fact it's not trying to be something it's not, and they love the hills, the greenery, surrounding countryside, and the down to earth nature of Sheffield.

 

[Bennyand the Blades]

Is it not typical of the said Sheffield counsel that in the year of our Lord 1648 they did take it upon them selves to destroy Sheffield Castle, a building that has stood on that site since 1270,
And did so making effort to leave behind neither plan nor picture nor one stone set upon another of said castle walls or keep for future residents to cogitate..

And is it not also typical of the Sheffield people that the only remaining structure left of said castle is a pub......

Nowt changes duz it;.....

 

[cahill]

Urban area I think SY about 6th on list in terms of the city itself Sheffield’s behind Birmingham and Leeds that’s it but you hit nail on the head they have bigger catchment areas city regions buffer states what ever you want to call it like you say is what it is

Obs London is biggest then greater Manchester like you say is huge then West Midlands I think even Liverpool city region and Tyne.and wear like you say I might be wrong been a long time since I studied it because a lot of censuses are on the regions not the individual town or city

I suppose my point is that clubs catchment area is beyond city boundaries, Greater Manchester is a case study where the surrounding towns, all with sizeable populations, haemorrhage support to the big clubs.

I support United but don't come from or live in Sheffield but from South Yorkshire

 

[LudlamBlade]

I largely agree, although don't think we're decaying, but I do wonder how Leeds trasitioned to its present success as a media and financial service base whilst Sheffield lagged behind. My thoughts are we suffered under the decline from the coal and steel base whereas Leeds wasn't reliant on that. The Leeds city centre has a much more appealing look to it, in terms of architecture, the train station and just the commercial appeal of the place - hate saying that. But I do think Sheffield has it's own appeal and when you speak to people that move here they love Sheffield for the fact it's not trying to be something it's not, and they love the hills, the greenery, surrounding countryside, and the down to earth nature of Sheffield.

Because Leeds is built on Freemason money

 

[Wincobank S9 Blade]

I suppose my point is that clubs catchment area is beyond city boundaries, Greater Manchester is a case study where the surrounding towns, all with sizeable populations, haemorrhage support to the big clubs.

I support United but don't come from or live in Sheffield but from South Yorkshire

Oh most defiantly 9 times out of 10 the bigger places tend to have the bigger clubs so get support from surrounding places too nothing wrong with that fella

 

[Snake]

It all depends on how you count and crunch the numbers. The City of Sheffield is actually 4th largest in England, however as a conurbation/urban area/metropolitan region etc etc we are up there, sure, but not on a par with Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds, Liverpool etc.

The thing is, we should be more or less on a par with places like Newcastle, Nottingham, Bristol but alas (and it saddens me to say) we are even light years behind these places in terms of economy and commerce - not to mention eateries, hospitality and night life. Unfortunately we are more on a par with market towns like Derby and Stoke than we are with the 'big' cities.

A lot of this I blame on the piggy labour city council of the late 80s.... Clive Betts, Blunkett etc. When I was growing up in the 60s and 70s Sheffield really was how it was described in the Full Monty Showreel - A city on the move! My jobs have taken me all over the world and particularly many other cities in the UK over the years. I watched all these other 'big cities' (maybe Liverpool apart) go from strength to strength while Sheffield just declined along with the once great steel industry. As all the blue chip, banking and IT companies drove straight on past us up the M1 to Leeds, we were destroying our City Centre with out of town shopping malls and the World Student Games.

 

[cahill]

I largely agree, although don't think we're decaying, but I do wonder how Leeds trasitioned to its present success as a media and financial service base whilst Sheffield lagged behind. My thoughts are we suffered under the decline from the coal and steel base whereas Leeds wasn't reliant on that. The Leeds city centre has a much more appealing look to it, in terms of architecture, the train station and just the commercial appeal of the place - hate saying that. But I do think Sheffield has it's own appeal and when you speak to people that move here they love Sheffield for the fact it's not trying to be something it's not, and they love the hills, the greenery, surrounding countryside, and the down to earth nature of Sheffield.

I agree about the " decaying " comment a poor choice of words by me . I agree I honestly think Sheffield is great. I don't agree that Leeds City Centre is more appealing.

 

[blademark]

have a walk round Liverpool.. Shithole.. Their teams seem to have done ok tho

Completely disagree, I think Liverpool is a terrific City. Maybe you haven't been for a while ?

 

[Silent Blade]

I stayed in Manchester for 2 weeks in July 2018 and there were a lot more homeless people on the street than in Sheffield.

 

[Danny_Blade]

I stayed in Manchester for 2 weeks in July 2018 and there were a lot more homeless people on the street than in Sheffield.

Not trying to be funny but naturally there would be more homeless? Just like there must be in Birmingham, Glasgow and London etc. More populous areas means a bigger percentage of them are more likely to be homeless than what Sheffield has.

 

[Silent Blade]

Not trying to be funny but naturally there would be more homeless? Just like there must be in Birmingham, Glasgow and London etc. More populous areas means a bigger percentage of them are more likely to be homeless than what Sheffield has.

population of Sheffield is higher than Manchester's

 

[Danny_Blade]

population of Sheffield is higher than Manchester's

In terms of the cities themselves yes but they have a bigger area and catchment area and so more people are drawn to their city centre than ours.

Therefore it is still not much of a surprise to me if Manchester does have more homeless than Sheffield.

 

[N20 Blade]

It wasn't in the 60's and 70's. We had the cleanest air of any city, more department stores than anywhere outside London, amazing cheap public transport, really radical modern planning and architecture (the "wedding cake" and hole in the road were brilliant concepts when they opened), and just for a laugh, the best illuminations outside Blackpool and London. The city lost its way in the 80's and hasn't been able to reinvent itself like Manchester and Leeds (which was a complete shithole in comparison). I don't have the answers, but it's not true that the city has always lacked ambition. I could get political about this but I'm choosing not to- anyway, you'll find that the same party tends to run most cities, whether they're ambitious or not!!

Wasn't the nuclear holocaust 'masterpiece' filmed in Sheffield? The eighties and early nineties was a self fulfilling prophecy and the city started to look like some of the scenes from 'Threads'. I've been in London, 25 years and enjoy being back in Sheffield, as do my children. The city has recovered from the misery of the eighties and has its own unique identity, as others have said, but I don't see pessimism (apart from the football). I see a realism and a sense of perspective, you don't get in other areas. People in Sheffield are grounded and don't let others get 'too big for their boots'. Their values are decent and there is respect for hard work, talent and skill, but you don't show off. It's no coincidence that 99.99% of the United fan base are desperate for Wilder to do well; he epitomises us, or at least he did. It's very sad though, that both football teams have been so unsuccessful but then what have Newcastle, Sunderland, Leeds, etc. actually achieved in the last 30 years?

 

[Danny_Blade]

Wasn't the nuclear holocaust 'masterpiece' filmed in Sheffield? The eighties and early nineties was a self fulfilling prophecy and the city started to look like some of the scenes from 'Threads'. I've been in London, 25 years and enjoy being back in Sheffield, as do my children. The city has recovered from the misery of the eighties and has its own unique identity, as others have said, but I don't see pessimism (apart from the football). I see a realism and a sense of perspective, you don't get in other areas. People in Sheffield are grounded and don't let others get 'too big for their boots'. Their values are decent and there is respect for hard work, talent and skill, but you don't show off. It's no coincidence that 99.99% of the United fan base are desperate for Wilder to do well; he epitomises us, or at least he did. It's very sad though, that both football teams have been so unsuccessful but then what have Newcastle, Sunderland, Leeds, etc. actually achieved in the last 30 years?

They only became the Champions of England in 1992

Interesting though to hear what someone's view is who no longer lives here but visits

 

[Numpty's Dusty Ruts.]

Can't agree there. To put all the blame on our Council rather than the government at the time is a very odd view to me, although you'll no doubt think my view is typical of the whiners as you put it. It was the Tories who shut the mines and didn't have an adequate plan B for it. Steel likewise declined from a lack of investment albeit in both cases I accept that market forces were a major factors - we just can't compete with countries who can produce things cheaper. But I don't recall that Leeds or Manchester relied on steel, or coal as the Sheffield region did and therefore we suffered far more as a city than others.

Also for people saying that Sheffield suffers from electing Labour every election; Leeds, Liverpool and Manchester vote Labour locally and nationally so if there is a Council problem, its not a Labour problem across the board. I'm not saying that Sheffield Council is perfect, but I believe we've had a crappy ride from the Tories as a general rule and in the past I believe that this was policital as Sheffield and South Yorkshire was without a doubt the socialist heartland of the north, lead by the likes of Scargill. Thatcher set out to destroy the unions and in the process dstroyed much of Sheffield's economy. Even to the present day they're the same. Their latest "levelling up the north" Dominic Cummings slogan is a joke. It was the Tories in the first place that created the problem!

Sheffield is not a joke or a shit hole either in my view. It's developed much in the 2000's and has an appeal of its own, different to Leeds and Manchester but that's the appeal of Sheffield.

As for football, Leeds is a one team city, Greater Manchester is far bigger and can accomodate two massive teams, it's not surprising Sheffield lags behind both.

I love Sheffield, it's underdog status and that we go under the radar somewhat. I do not look with envious eyes to either Leeds or Mancheser honestly.

Cheers mate, you said everything I was going to say. By and large football success has no real relevance to how places develop or are perceived. York, Bath and Chester are beautiful thriving cities but aren't well known for their football teams. Neither is Bristol, which is a great city with loads of history and redevelopment (and another one of those tiresome Labour councils!!).

 

[N20 Blade]

They only became the Champions of England in 1992

Interesting to hear what someone's view is who no longer lives here but visits

Funny thing is, I've lived and worked in Sydney, Amsterdam, Mumbai, Sofia, for spells over the last thirty years and I'm so proud to say to others, I'm from Sheffield, born in Sheffield. People have heard of the city worldwide, our long gone steel industry gives us fame at least. I've got a badge somewhere 'Sheffield by birth, United by the grace of God' and that sums it up eh? I'd love to move back. Just need that divorce to come through!

 

[N20 Blade]

They only became the Champions of England in 1992

Interesting though to hear what someone's view is who no longer lives here but visits

Yeah I was at the game where Gayle scored the o.g. to give it them! Wasn't that the season where if the pigs had beat us both games they would have won the bloody league?

 

[atlanticblade]

A problem Sheffield has always had is its geographical location as a border town/City on the border of Northumbria/Mercia, Yorkshire/Derbyshire and edge of the Pennines. Historically it has been bypassed and not visited as much due to the Pennines to the west cutting it off, giving it an insular, village feel which also gives it a certain quaint attraction too.
Partially as a result, Leeds, in the centre of Yorkshire, got the Calendar and Look Leeds TV stations
which was a massive blow to Sheffields national standing. At the time their population was much less than Sheffields until they altered their boundaries extensively.
Meeting Sheffielders around the world I always find them to be quieter than Mancs, scousers, geordies, cockneys and Leeds gobshites thankfully and more "in the background". We are definitely
different and, at times, not being as forceful as that lot hasn't done us any favours.

 

[Numpty's Dusty Ruts.]

Is it not typical of the said Sheffield counsel that in the year of our Lord 1648 they did take it upon them selves to destroy Sheffield Castle, a building that has stood on that site since 1270,
And did so making effort to leave behind neither plan nor picture nor one stone set upon another of said castle walls or keep for future residents to cogitate..

And is it not also typical of the Sheffield people that the only remaining structure left of said castle is a pub......

Nowt changes duz it;.....

Sheffield did not have a "counsel", as you put it, in 1648. The castle was demolished, like many others, by Cromwell's government. Nothing remains of the castle, except some foundations under what was Castle Market. If you mean the Queen's Head pub, that was nowhere near Sheffield Castle. None of this is relevant to now.

 

[Booker4]

Cheers mate, you said everything I was going to say. By and large football success has no real relevance to how places develop or are perceived. York, Bath and Chester are beautiful thriving cities but aren't well known for their football teams. Neither is Bristol, which is a great city with loads of history and redevelopment (and another one of those tiresome Labour councils!!).

I don't agree with your last bit though. I think the much bigger issue both locally and nationally is years of Tory failure. We've certainly seen much development in Sheffield in recent years also, some of that is in partnership with the Council. I will refrain from going into more politics, but won't just say nothing either when people come out with views that I don't agree on, whether that's the merits of United or the political party I happen to be a member of!

 

[Rochdaleblade]

population of Sheffield is higher than Manchester's

The area around Piccadilly Gardens is notorious for homeless alcoholics and spice heads. Why Andy Burnham has not tackled this, rather than try to reinvigorate his career by promoting himself as the unofficial leader of the opposition is beyond me. It is right in the city centre where most people arriving by public transport see first. It was the same when I first moved to Manchester 20 years ago. I have fond memories of waiting for a tram whilst watching winos fall about trying to do tai chi with some of the residents of Chinatown.
There was a programme on a few months ago about the property boom in Manchester called manctopia. It was a decent watch despite its left of centre, anti-gentrification viewpoint.