We don't 'owe' Wilder anything

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FMBlade1 said:
Totally get that hope he turns things around and stays.

I do think another manager could have got better than Ramsdale for 18 million, Brewster for 23 million and McB for 20 million though
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Who would you have instead of Wilder if you had a choice? Name someone we can afford, would come to us and would be an improvement on what we’ve got.
 



derekacorah said:
Who would you have instead of Wilder if you had a choice? Name someone we can afford, would come to us and would be an improvement on what we’ve got.
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I'm not suggesting getting rid of him. At this moment in time I don't believe there is anyone else better suited to get us going and out of this current predicament.

That could change though of course, and the point of the OP is to say that fairness, loyalty and sentimentality should play no role in whatever decision is made either way.
 
I understand the point that we don't "owe" Wilder a job. And I agree. It's down to personal opinion whether you think he's the man for it or not.

I do think we "owe" Wilder respect for the job he's done and he, more than any other PL manager, should be given time to turn it round - not because we "owe" it to him but because he deserves it.
 
Elsecar_Blade said:
I understand the point that we don't "owe" Wilder a job. And I agree. It's down to personal opinion whether you think he's the man for it or not.

I do think we "owe" Wilder respect for the job he's done and he, more than any other PL manager, should be given time to turn it round - not because we "owe" it to him but because he deserves it.
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Completely agree that he is owed respect. I believe he should be given more time to turn it around also, not because he 'deserves' it but because his signings have not had much time to gel and he knows the players and has a track record of getting the best out of them.

Politely ask, what do you mean by 'deserve'?
 
FMBlade1 said:
Completely agree that he is owed respect. I believe he should be given more time to turn it around also, not because he 'deserves' it but because his signings have not had much time to gel and he knows the players and has a track record of getting the best out of them.

Politely ask, what do you mean by 'deserve'?
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It might be my rheumatism but i have the funny feeling the management team are drinking in the last chance saloon .hope i am wrong
 
Carlton Blade said:
It depends if you treat your football club like a business or its more personal than that.

The happiness I've had from Wilder's reign means that he gets so much more leeway than anyone else would 🤷‍♂️
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It maybe depends on whether you view a football club as a social club or something, at its core, should aim to succeed at the highest level.

Its an interesting conundrum, soul or success?
 
HillmortonBlade said:
It maybe depends on whether you view a football club as a social club or something, at its core, should aim to succeed at the highest level.

Its an interesting conundrum, soul or success?
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I'm a romantic. I preferred Ardiles Spurs team to George Graham's etc. Even though the latter won a trophy
 
Carlton Blade said:
I'm a romantic. I preferred Ardiles Spurs team to George Graham's etc. Even though the latter won a trophy
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I’m torn between the four years of Wilder over the years of Bassett, my first love..

For all I say.. I’d hate for our Club to lose its soul, despite the best efforts of its owners.
 
Pedro Verde said:
So you think by sticking with Wilder we are being loyal and sentimental and we are sacrificing success on the pitch ?
So say we get rid of Wilder who do we get in as manager ?
We cannot attract a top manager, we do not have a mega rich chairman funding fees and more importantly the extortionate wages proven PL players command these days
So you have to get in a foreign manager who we probably know little about, a young up and coming manager or an experienced manager that is on the managerial merry go round that has probably been sacked at a few PL clubs, all of those are a gamble and will want funds to bring in their own players to play the way the incoming manager wants to play. Success on the pitch is not guaranteed

Iam not in favour of sticking with Wilder through sentiment or loyalty, I want Wilder to stay as I think he will be the best man for the job if we get relegated, if we dont get relegated he will have done a great job anyway
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No. I’m saying the vocal majority that can’t even hear a whisper of criticism often use sentimental and emotional language to justify why he is best chance to regain success. I’m saying those 2 things are separate until such time as we can see both recognition of the blindingly obvious problems, and an action plan to get us out of it. That’s managements remit.
 
sheff_blade90 said:
thats the problem i bring up in this. alot of people want him out. but no one got a decent replacement
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For the record I absolutely don’t want him out. I want him back to how he was. We can debate our wage structure, budgets, VAR decisions, injuries etc I do think there is some merit to that contributing to our position. It’s also true to say that our system is unrecognisable to the one which took us through the leagues. No 10 and no overloads take away that critical extra component that bridges the gap to opponents littered with £50m players. We’re now the precise sum of our parts, which is being badly exposed. Reset and system to what it was or try something else, you absolutely cannot go through the motions, and raise the white flag, the league will chew you up.
 



Chris has done and amazing job, the amazing job Chris has done has made him very very wealthy, this wealth has been paid for by the club he has done an amazing job at.

His very own rhetoric was (although don’t hear it as much now from him, strangely 😂) was about how there is no time for sentiment in football.

So no we don’t owe him anything at all.
 
A Storm of Blades said:
For the record I absolutely don’t want him out. I want him back to how he was. We can debate our wage structure, budgets, VAR decisions, injuries etc I do think there is some merit to that contributing to our position. It’s also true to say that our system is unrecognisable to the one which took us through the leagues. No 10 and no overloads take away that critical extra component that bridges the gap to opponents littered with £50m players. We’re now the precise sum of our parts, which is being badly exposed. Reset and system to what it was or try something else, you absolutely cannot go through the motions, and raise the white flag, the league will chew you up.
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You are forgetting one major ingredient we need the fans! Do you actually think he’s telling the players to not do the things we have done for 4 years? Unfortunately for us to do well we have to be at full tilt 100% intensity and unfortunately without the fans even losing 5% of that intensity has w major impact! This is a one off bizarre season the likes of which we hope never happens again with the lack of fans! He deserves and has earned the chance to keep us up or if not get us back up!
 
Bruce Wayne said:
1st truth of life - life is unfair
2nd truth of life - nothing lasts forever
3rd truth of life - change is inevitable
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1. With regard to life football will 3rd 4th of importance
2. Lets just go with what’s we’ve got
3.I think we can scrape out of this but if we can’t WTF
 
FMBlade1 said:
This probably won't go down well with some (or most), but then it's a forum not a popularity contest. It's just to add some balance. I imagine some will just read the title then dig in though I urge you to read on before you do;

Wilder has done very well working for SUFC. We took him from Northampton Town to give him the most significant job he has ever had with one of the best budgets in the league. Whilst it was true he may have/could have gone to Charlton, even if he had they were in a tricky position with their owners etc. so definitely dodged a bullet by not becoming their manager instead.

During his time here he has had two new contracts. Thoroughly deserved of course. And by coming here he has had the chance to create and take the opportunity to manage in the Premier League, which he surely would not have had by staying at Northampton or going to Charlton.

---

Now I totally understand the argument that we should not consider his position this season so we can bounce back up like Burnley, West Brom or as Norwich are currently doing.

Where things get a bit hazy imho is when people say things like 'We owe it to him to see out the season in the PL' or 'He deserves the chance to take us back up', or 'We shouldn't sack him no matter what'

I understand what people mean by that, but the consideration should be: Is him being our manager definitely in our best interests, or would an alternative be more viable?

It's not about Wilder, but about the club. Loyalty is of course an admirable quality but shouldn't entirely shape our direction. Southampton ditched Atkins after back to back promotions for example and that proved to be in their best interests.

Not for a moment am I saying that he should go at this current stage. He is the best person currently to see us through these difficult times. However we don't 'owe' him anything and can't let that affect our future direction.

Of course eternally grateful for the fantastic job he has done here, though that is not the same thing.

Onwards and upwards soon with a result tomorrow,

UTB!
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I haven’t read everyone else’s comments as I guess I am a little dischuffed at people saying Wilder out or we owe him nothing. Let’s take a look shall we? Not just the fact that we were wallowing 11th in lg1. So, he took over the reins and by his determination (with AK) he reformed the team and they drove on to promotion. He achieved 10th in Championship and then promotion. You know the rest of the on field. On top of this, he had to contend with the shenanigans of the off field tug of war. He also galvanised our club, our players and our supporters to be as one. He gave the club back to the supporter family. The players changed, would and do, run through brick walls. They are proud to be a part of the family. With the litigation he kept us firing as a team and connected as a family. He led by example with a heart as big as a bucket and honesty by the shovel full, to make this club what it should be, and had been previously, a family. Do we owe him? Yes, big time. Big time.
 
I haven't read all the comments either, can probably guess the thrust. We do 'owe' CW, we owe him our huge gratitude for what he has given us these past few seasons. What we don't owe him is a job for life or until he sees fit to walk. That would be sentimental and football doesn't work like that.

I wouldn't get rid of Chris for two reasons, the first being I don't see an obvious, viable alternative. More importantly, I think he retains the backing of the players. I don't see any drop off in effort or desire. If you lose the dressing room as a manager I think you're doomed, but I don’t see that with us. We've been a bit unlucky and ultimately haven't had the requisite quality. But they're trying, no one else is going to come in and get more out of the group. Hopefully we see some tactical changes because clearly the current approach isn't working.

I think there's a glimmer of hope, however small, and that is Moose getting back to fitness. Clearly big question marks over him, but when fit and firing he will score goals in this division.
 
Whatever the reason for our current predicament, Wilder is not totally responsible for the position we are in now.
Supporters on here have made it clear. They expect Wilder to make changes. Changes in formation, tactics and approach to games.
Last season, I wanted Wiler to rotate players more often, giving squad players the chance to develop, and learn the system.
He (rightly) ignored my wishes. No one on this forum is a professional football manager. We might have ideas or hopes, especially in the current climate, but I suspect that, in this situation, with the tools he does have, he is the best man for the job.
My reasoning is based partly on the business model we are obliged to operate under. The lack of fans at matches, and a little consideration for what he has achieved, with so little support from the business side, compared to our peers in this league.
I suppose I could add a small portion of sentiment to that position. He’s a blade, and as a supporter, he and his team retain the desire to perform and do well for him, the club, and the fans.
He has not lost the dressing room, and apart from one game, (Chelsea) the team are only guilty of spurning chances in front of goal. Outside of absences, I expect our six strikers to be rotated based on the opposition, which is what happened last season. Brewster and Burke both need game time to adapt to our style of play, but apart from that, it should be horses for courses.
Anyone who thinks he should change, or the club should replace him, has a short memory.
 
Robboblade1889 said:
You are forgetting one major ingredient we need the fans! Do you actually think he’s telling the players to not do the things we have done for 4 years? Unfortunately for us to do well we have to be at full tilt 100% intensity and unfortunately without the fans even losing 5% of that intensity has w major impact! This is a one off bizarre season the likes of which we hope never happens again with the lack of fans! He deserves and has earned the chance to keep us up or if not get us back up!
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The fans is a misnomer in my view. I don’t buy that somehow missing fans is impacting us anymore than the 19 other teams in the league. Missing fans is having a horrible impact on the game as a whole, and matches are definitely worse off. And, yes I do think his instructions have changed. For a start, we’re not playing a 10, that’s a tactical decision. And secondly, if he is telling players to overload and do everything we’ve built our identity on, and they aren’t doing it why are they staying in the team? It’s clear our approach has become deliberately tentative and conservative. Wilder has said as much in interviews, as demonstrated by the infamous “you don’t go toe-to-toe...” comment
 
So I'm guessing you don't read much on here then!?
 



The argument needs to be considered in context with the specific circumstances of our club and the position we find ourselves in, and making any comparisons to other clubs (Charlton, Leicester etc) is pointless.

We are in the mire. Looking elsewhere has no guarantees, and would be a rebuilding job over time. We really should be making this decison with an eye on next season and the Championship.

This is Wilder’s squad. We are very much in a transition period from the squad that got us up. We were massively playing above ourselves last season, are still only losing by fine margins and as a result are disproportionately affected by empty stadiums.

Talk of “success” appears to be staying up this season. Then what?

To me success would be building long term, becoming a solid PL side year on year, flirting with Europe and having a good go in the cups, investing in facilities and the academy and creating a real legacy and infrastructure to maintain success in future.

There will be bumps in the road, but wilder has proven that he has everything that is needed to keep taking this club forward and bring the type of real success that is needed to maintain us a PL force for years to come.
 
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