We don't 'owe' Wilder anything

[wf9-Danny]

Given I think Knill is the brains of the operation, Im not sure how bothered I am about Wilder staying or leaving.

I'd personally promote Knill and tell him to get his own staff in.

 

[wf9-Danny]

If that's the reason he resigns he's not a tenth of the man I thought he was.

He'll never leave our club for that reason.

It's not financially sensible for him to resign, he'll get a wedge if or when he is sacked and he knows it - it's why he kept throwing things out of the pram every year on the dot when he wanted a pay rise.

 

[A Storm of Blades]

We’re in the elite league. You only need to watch the ‘All or Nothing’ series’ to get a sense of the level our competitors operate at. To stay in the elite league, we need elite performance from the playing staff, management, recruitment teams etc.

Eventually, we need to decide what our core values are. If loyalty, sentimentality and having the club run by ‘our own’ is at the heart of the club’s purpose, then we have to accept that hitting elite performance will be by fortune rather than design. And ultimately we may have to accept operating in the lower echelons, as we will be replaced by operations willing to make decisions which we would consider beyond the pale. If however, the club values reaching the pinnacle of the sport and success is measured on the field, then we then have to accept that hard decisions may need to be made ruthlessly, even at the behest of appearing disloyal or ungrateful. Any part of the club not hitting the desired standards would have to be swiftly and mercilessly replaced.

It really comes down to your preference, because it’s becoming increasingly clear we can’t have both.

 

[Sam64]

I'd say for everything he's given us in the last 4 years he deserves to prove to us that when things go badly he can turn it around. I'd sack him if we go down and aren't looking like we'll be going back up, because that will be the first time he's underperforming with the players we have.

 

[SB_90]

FMBlade1 everyone entitled to there opinion, we dont want this place turning into north korea, i think we are playing brilliantly right up the point we have to take a shot & ive seen far worse sheff utd team even in last 10 years . but like i ask everyone which is this opinion who would you appoint to take over.

because going short term is going to hurt & we seen how it damage a team, many clubs going november to november

 

[FMBlade1]

Ok I know this is a silly hypothetical question as it is hypothetical (with no guarantees either way) but it might cut to the heart of the matter:

Would you rather:

a ) Stick with Wilder this season no-matter what, even if that ends in relegation

b ) Dismiss him knowing that the person to replace him (even if it's Allardyce) will keep us up

 

[Keef Chedwyn]

He's having a fucking shocker, the worst in Premier League history.
He's said nothing is going to change which means the players are set up to narrowly lose every game.
He's had a fairy tale recent past but things have got to be looked at.

 

[A Storm of Blades]

FMBlade1 everyone entitled to there opinion, we dont want this place turning into north korea, i think we are playing brilliantly right up the point we have to take a shot & ive seen far worse sheff utd team even in last 10 years . but like i ask everyone which is this opinion who would you appoint to take over.

because going short term is going to hurt & we seen how it damage a team, many clubs going november to november

I’ve seen this question a lot, and on the surface it might seem like a logical query. To turn it on its head however, do you think only Chris Wilder is capable of achieving success at Sheffield United? If so, isn’t that a debilitating weakness for a football club to have? That the success of the entire enterprise can only be delivered by one person?

 

[BobblesBlade]

Get the Poch in. It’s the only way we’d ever be a top Prem side.

 

[8lade]

I’ve seen this question a lot, and on the surface it might seem like a logical query. To turn it on its head however, do you think only Chris Wilder is capable of achieving success at Sheffield United? If so, isn’t that a debilitating weakness for a football club to have? That the success of the entire enterprise can only be delivered by one person?

That's a decent question and the obvious answer is 'no but' I have absolutely no idea who would be more successful (who we could afford) etc.
This moment in time reminds me of when the Charlton fans wanted rid of Curbishley because he couldn't kick them on from 8th in the top tier.

 

[SB_90]

I’ve seen this question a lot, and on the surface it might seem like a logical query. To turn it on its head however, do you think only Chris Wilder is capable of achieving success at Sheffield United? If so, isn’t that a debilitating weakness for a football club to have? That the success of the entire enterprise can only be delivered by one person?

it is a weakness, but likely the same one that man utd had in late 90's early 00's & he probally he is at the moment.

you look just my time of sporting sheff utd since 1998. we've only had 2 managers that brought league success. as robson, blackwell, adams, weir, clough, adkins all failed & struggled. outside of eddie howe who wouldnt come to us. i cant think of anyone else. thats the issue. because outside of sam allardyce i havent heard of any other suggestion

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

I am grateful that he has done the job he was employed to do, by winning 2 promotions. I feel I owe him (and so should many others) for the fact that he has given us our club back. The identity of management/players/fans together, pre-Coronavirus, was a joy to experience, and I for one feel I owe it to him to give him the opportunity to recreate that feeling once the crowds are back. It was a unique 4 years, and I doubt anyone else could have achieved that.

 

[Bladeloyal]

Think Warnock then all the managers we've had since, up to Chris ,people that think change is good .but be careful what you wish for .

 

[Big Hitter]

I'd wring his sweaty sock out and drink it. And chew any bits of matter floating therein.
Wilder is God!

I thought with your "photo" your faith lay elsewhere.

 

[Big Hitter]

Ok I know this is a silly hypothetical question as it is hypothetical (with no guarantees either way) but it might cut to the heart of the matter:

Would you rather:

a ) Stick with Wilder this season no-matter what, even if that ends in relegation

b ) Dismiss him knowing that the person to replace him (even if it's Allardyce) will keep us up

Stupid hypothesis..... can you guarantee (b)? . No you cant so forget it.

 

[bornablade]

This probably won't go down well with some (or most), but then it's a forum not a popularity contest. It's just to add some balance. I imagine some will just read the title then dig in though I urge you to read on before you do;

Wilder has done very well working for SUFC. We took him from Northampton Town to give him the most significant job he has ever had with one of the best budgets in the league. Whilst it was true he may have/could have gone to Charlton, even if he had they were in a tricky position with their owners etc. so definitely dodged a bullet by not becoming their manager instead.

During his time here he has had two new contracts. Thoroughly deserved of course. And by coming here he has had the chance to create and take the opportunity to manage in the Premier League, which he surely would not have had by staying at Northampton or going to Charlton.

---

Now I totally understand the argument that we should not consider his position this season so we can bounce back up like Burnley, West Brom or as Norwich are currently doing.

Where things get a bit hazy imho is when people say things like 'We owe it to him to see out the season in the PL' or 'He deserves the chance to take us back up', or 'We shouldn't sack him no matter what'

I understand what people mean by that, but the consideration should be: Is him being our manager definitely in our best interests, or would an alternative be more viable?

It's not about Wilder, but about the club. Loyalty is of course an admirable quality but shouldn't entirely shape our direction. Southampton ditched Atkins after back to back promotions for example and that proved to be in their best interests.

Not for a moment am I saying that he should go at this current stage. He is the best person currently to see us through these difficult times. However we don't 'owe' him anything and can't let that affect our future direction.

Of course eternally grateful for the fantastic job he has done here, though that is not the same thing.

Onwards and upwards soon with a result tomorrow,

UTB!

I read the OP it with a sense of anticipation that the OP would offer an alternative to Wilder.

Of course nothing there. Empty words. What a total waste of internet space.

 

[alcoblade]

How is it?

We’re bottom of the league with 1 point out of 30. If Burnley win, we’re 7 points from safety after 10 fucking games.

If CW is the “best option” and “nobody could do any better” I dread to think what any other manager could do to us, because it can’t get any fucking worse.

“We”

 

[Davalon]

My view is looking at the bigger picture.

Yes, I have loyalty to Wilder in terms of what he's done for us and as a Blade.

What is most important though imho is to look at the here and now, and at next season should relegation happen.

At this time I see no clear alternative within our means that gives me confidence they would either keep us up or get us back up.

We still have the nucleus of the squad that got us here and imho one of our current issues is the transition from bringing in new players to improve us.

We can talk about the signings and where they are being played, where I think there is some justification for questioning the roles some have been given considering the success they've had previously.

Berge will be a top player imho but we don't see the best of him enough. Brewster has undoubted potential but we need him involved more in the right areas.

Ramsdale has areas to improve on but what 22 year old keeper doesn't. He's certainly not as bad as some are suggesting imho and I'm not sure I see too many alternatives out there who I could guarantee would have been better.

What our recruitment has clearly tried to do recently is bring in very young accomplished players with the potential to go much further.

Not bringing a good enough replacement in for JOC has cost us but I'm not sure who we could have got or afforded.

The one positive I see is that should relegation happen, as looks likely, then I see a squad remaining that should be excellent in the Championship with any leavers being compensated by big fees and parachute payments.

Our wage structure will also help in that regard.

Keeping some consistency, however, is likely to be paramount to that.

In short, very much Wilder in for me.

 

[Wincobank S9 Blade]

Look at options who would we get in Eddie Howe did well with Bournemouth in lower divisions (like Wilder) got them to the premier league (no coronavirus during their 2nd season) plus had a bit of money and didn’t do owt at Burnley then Allardyce had his flash in pan with Bolton like loads of other managers brutal football then went to clubs like Everton West Ham who had money for wages and good players at their disposal, this seasons painfully bad so far but a bit like Rotherham with Paul Warne I can’t see anyone else coming in and doing better all we’d do is get another manager off of circuit or a has been like Pulis Warmock so I question some of Wilders signings but I’d defiantly give him chance to rebuild next season regardless of the division he knows the club and city and at least he doesn’t bs anyone and surely you can’t be a bad manager after 1 season and I think this experience will make him a better manager

 

[dazzlingblade]

Getting out of league 1 was a fine achievement but let's not over-egg it. Wilson would have done it if not for April 20th 2012. The subsequent managers being crap in league 1 doesn't mean Wilder not being crap and getting promotion was absolutely amazing. For example what clubs are Weir, Clough and Atkins managing now?

However his success in league 1 is less relevant in deciding what we do now because we aren't in league 1....

'As Ive said before on this forum who is better placed with the players we have should we get relegated getting us back the the PL than Wilder.'

At the moment I entirely agree with that.

Adkins, bloody Adkins

 

[FMBlade1]

so I question some of Wilders signings but I’d defiantly give him chance to rebuild next season regardless of the division he knows the club and city and at least he doesn’t bs anyone and surely you can’t be a bad manager after 1 season and I think this experience will make him a better manager

Agree entirely. Without sounding patronizing/arrogant there are things he needs to improve on as well and ways he needs to change. Will he acknowledge or adhere to that?

The greatest managers adapt over time, if he doesn't he won't continue to be one.

 

[Birley Blade]

“We”

Spout a lot of shite for someone who wouldn’t say a dicky bird outside the forum.

 

[Foody]

It's not about 'owing', football is a ruthless industry. We all know that. It's about acknowledgement of where we were and ensuring we don't end up back there. I don't just mean in terms of league position. When Wilder took over, not only where we languishing in league 1, but we were in an absolute state. The board couldn't find a manager they liked, the manager didn't like the squad, the squad didn't like the manager and the fans couldn't stand the lot of em. We were a fragmented mess. Wilder changed all that and united the factions.
The easiest way of getting back into the mess that we were in, is by sacking the man that sorted it out in the first place.

Keeping Wilder is entirely selfish. Changing managers MAY increase the chance of survival, but it WILL increase the risk if us going into freefall and becoming the mess we once were. I never want to see us taking unnecessary risks, the club means too much to too many people for that.

 

[alcoblade]

Spout a lot of shite for someone who wouldn’t say a dicky bird outside the forum.

We’ve been here before. It didn’t end well for him, either.

Do one, pig.

 

[A Storm of Blades]

Look at options who would we get in Eddie Howe did well with Bournemouth in lower divisions (like Wilder) got them to the premier league (no coronavirus during their 2nd season) plus had a bit of money and didn’t do owt at Burnley then Allardyce had his flash in pan with Bolton like loads of other managers brutal football then went to clubs like Everton West Ham who had money for wages and good players at their disposal, this seasons painfully bad so far but a bit like Rotherham with Paul Warne I can’t see anyone else coming in and doing better all we’d do is get another manager off of circuit or a has been like Pulis Warmock so I question some of Wilders signings but I’d defiantly give him chance to rebuild next season regardless of the division he knows the club and city and at least he doesn’t bs anyone and surely you can’t be a bad manager after 1 season and I think this experience will make him a better manager

It’s a bit disingenuous to base an argument on a theory that there is a bereft of suitable replacements by only citing 2 polarising managers. If the vacancy ever came up im sure it would have more than 2 applicants. I’d never heard of Hassenhuttl or Pochettino (as a manager) and didn’t Wenger come a J-league side?

 

[N.E.Blade]

Sacking wilder is the last thing I would personally want. However, if he ploughs on with the same failing system then I fail to see how his position is tenable. I think most people would applaud him for trying something different even if that resulted in relegation. But like I said do him to continue to do the same failing thing time and time again is tiresome.

 

[stringer]

How is it?

We’re bottom of the league with 1 point out of 30. If Burnley win, we’re 7 points from safety after 10 fucking games.

If CW is the “best option” and “nobody could do any better” I dread to think what any other manager could do to us, because it can’t get any fucking worse.

Very worst case scenario United end the season as the 20th placed team in the 91-team pyramid, with millions to come in parachute payments and a very strong Champo squad. Ask a Bury or Macc Town fan if things can’t get any worse at Sheffield United.

And by coming here he has had the chance to create and take the opportunity to manage in the Premier League, which he surely would not have had by staying at Northampton or going to Charlton.

He fashioned the chance to manage in the Premier League himself by dragging this club there. He was no more/less likely to do that here than at Charlton (granted, less at Northampton).

Would you rather:

a ) Stick with Wilder this season no-matter what, even if that ends in relegation

b ) Dismiss him knowing that the person to replace him (even if it's Allardyce) will keep us up

Surely you mean
B) dismiss him knowing that if we go down, the man who comes in to replace him will be less likely to win promotion again with this squad of players? No way of ‘knowing’ anyone would secure survival by replacing the manager.

 

[Bartleby]

Southampton ditched Atkins after back to back promotions for example and that proved to be in their best interests.

I was reminded of that as well. In that case though they actually waited till he'd started to turn it around before pulling the trigger.

it's a forum not a popularity contest.

not sure that's entirely true

 

[Bartleby]

That's a decent question and the obvious answer is 'no but' I have absolutely no idea who would be more successful (who we could afford) etc.
This moment in time reminds me of when the Charlton fans wanted rid of Curbishley because he couldn't kick them on from 8th in the top tier.

It does me as well. Charlton stuck by him after his first season in the Prem when they got relegated and he took them straight back up and consolidated them in the top flight. Then fans wanted him out when they felt he couldn't kick them on to top 8 as you say and they got League One.

I'd prefer we take that approach (the first part) rather than what Southampton did.

 

[A Storm of Blades]

Very worst case scenario United end the season as the 20th placed team in the 91-team pyramid, with millions to come in parachute payments and a very strong Champo squad. Ask a Bury or Macc Town fan if things can’t get any worse at Sheffield United.

Talk about manipulating parameters to suit the argument!