Could Berge Play as a 10?

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A Storm of Blades

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I think he has the attributes to sit behind the front 2. He has great technique, dribbling ability, final ball delivery and eye for a pass. Plus his defensive abilities would be useful from the front when deploying a full court press. Just a thought
 



At one point I thought commentators said he was playing behind the front 2, but I’m sure he was RCM
 
He did look rather dangerous in those pockets of space in the first half
 
Great to feel popular eh A Storm of Blades?

To be fair I think you make a fair point, but I still can't see us moving back to that shape, unless it's to chase a game. I do hope we'll see him owing that right side from now on though, let Norwood and Ampadu battle for the DM role.
 
Great to feel popular eh A Storm of Blades?

To be fair I think you make a fair point, but I still can't see us moving back to that shape, unless it's to chase a game. I do hope we'll see him owing that right side from now on though, let Norwood and Ampadu battle for the DM role.
Haha - yeah! I do like to mix moaning with tactics. I miss the 10. Can’t help it The best I’ve ever seen a blades team play.
 
Haha - yeah! I do like to mix moaning with tactics. I miss the 10. Can’t help it The best I’ve ever seen a blades team play.

It's certainly better to watch, I just think to play with attacking wing backs, attacking centre backs, a number 10 and two strikers is too much to ask in the Premier League.
 
It's certainly better to watch, I just think to play with attacking wing backs, attacking centre backs, a number 10 and two strikers is too much to ask in the Premier League.
We can’t do any worse though! And playing the 10 still meant we had excellent defensive records in previous years. We’ve got to do something to stop the rot
 
It’s frustrating because the argument against having a ten is that there’s a very real risk we could reach the first 5 games with one point or something disastrous like that.

Now there's a few arguments against having a number 10.
1. We are worried it will lead to us conceding a shit load of goals
2. We don't have a natural number 10 now anyway, so would have to play a striker or a DM in there
3. Without added midfield cover I can't see our centre backs overlapping.

To be honest I think we've got to acknowledge that regardless of the poor start, with the run of fixtures coming up, we aren't suddenly going to be going more attacking. Confidence isn't high as it is.
 



Too big, lacks that explosive burst of speed to operate with his back to goal and between the lines to get away from players.
Just my thoughts....he’s a central player all day long. Would be even better in a central two. Space out of possession is bad for him.
 
Freeman was loaned out, didsy ihaa been striker for pretty much his whole career.
Semantics. Didsy comes deep and links play. He clearly fits the role of a 10. Freeman is still our player (the loan is bizarre IMO)
 
Too big, lacks that explosive burst of speed to operate with his back to goal and between the lines to get away from players.
Just my thoughts....he’s a central player all day long. Would be even better in a central two. Space out of possession is bad for him.
I see it differently TBH. He’s the one player in the side that does drive past players. Recently he’s looked lethal running at centre halves.
 
Burke would also appear to have the right attributes for the role. Burke behind Billy and Brewster do for anyone? Berge and Ampadu or a fit Fleck further back.
I don't think it'll happen. I don't think our defence is great at this level if they aren't well protected by a hard working midfield.

Getting this balance wrong may not result in 3-1 wins one week and 1-3 defeats the next. I fear we'd be seeing 1-6 every week.

I think Burke in a role behind one striker, running from deep a la Barkley, is worth trying though.
 
I don't think it'll happen. I don't think our defence is great at this level if they aren't well protected by a hard working midfield.

Getting this balance wrong may not result in 3-1 wins one week and 1-3 defeats the next. I fear we'd be seeing 1-6 every week.

I think Burke in a role behind one striker, running from deep a la Barkley, is worth trying though.
Do you really think, our midfield, as it’s performing currently, is protecting us from losing by more goals each week? I think it’s by far our weakest link. Changing it to try and make us more potent as an attacking force, won’t necessarily translate in an decrease in defensive cover.

Better/stronger defences are much more than just increasing the numbers a formation deploys in defensive positions. Our lack of attacking threat makes us more defensively vulnerable, as teams are stepping onto us, without worrying about what’s behind them. Our lack of athleticism in the central has led to every team this season continually bypassing and penetrating any midfield cover and driving straight at our defence.

We were promoted playing a 10, and had the second best defensive record. Similar story when we won L1. Even if I agreed that removing the 10 has made us more solid (which I don’t), the detrimental impact that has had on us as an attacking force has completely wiped away any advantage we might have gained.
 
Do you really think, our midfield, as it’s performing currently, is protecting us from losing by more goals each week? I think it’s by far our weakest link. Changing it to try and make us more potent as an attacking force, won’t necessarily translate in an decrease in defensive cover.

Better/stronger defences are much more than just increasing the numbers a formation deploys in defensive positions. Our lack of attacking threat makes us more defensively vulnerable, as teams are stepping onto us, without worrying about what’s behind them. Our lack of athleticism in the central has led to every team this season continually bypassing and penetrating any midfield cover and driving straight at our defence.

We were promoted playing a 10, and had the second best defensive record. Similar story when we won L1. Even if I agreed that removing the 10 has made us more solid (which I don’t), the detrimental impact that has had on us as an attacking force has completely wiped away any advantage we might have gained.
I think that's the most sensible argument for bringing back the no 10 I've heard. Totally agree with you.
 
Do you really think, our midfield, as it’s performing currently, is protecting us from losing by more goals each week? I think it’s by far our weakest link. Changing it to try and make us more potent as an attacking force, won’t necessarily translate in an decrease in defensive cover.

Better/stronger defences are much more than just increasing the numbers a formation deploys in defensive positions. Our lack of attacking threat makes us more defensively vulnerable, as teams are stepping onto us, without worrying about what’s behind them. Our lack of athleticism in the central has led to every team this season continually bypassing and penetrating any midfield cover and driving straight at our defence.

We were promoted playing a 10, and had the second best defensive record. Similar story when we won L1. Even if I agreed that removing the 10 has made us more solid (which I don’t), the detrimental impact that has had on us as an attacking force has completely wiped away any advantage we might have gained.
Wilder wouldn't play a 10 even after we became safe last season , so there's no way he's gonna play a 10 with us at wrong end of table.
 
Wilder wouldn't play a 10 even after we became safe last season , so there's no way he's gonna play a 10 with us at wrong end of table.
Frustratingly you’re right. And this is where Wilder needs to accept criticism. Not necessarily for not playing a 10, but certainly for being overly conservative against teams we needed to get after.
 
In the first half of last season when we were fearless, flying and dominating matches, Didsy more or less played the number 10 role and we always looked better with him in the team. Unfortunately this left a loan striker up top, which without Mousset left us toothless and paceless up top.

Play Didy behind Burke and Brewster and play Berge and Norwood in front of the back four.

....oh, and for crying out loud, drop Enda Stevens.
 
No, it would be too easy for teams to by pass Berge that high up the pitch and we need his ball winning and holding qualities.
McGoldrick as a 10 yes but then what is the formation we play? Is it 4-3-1-2, 3-5-1-1(don't think we'd ever score playing this)
 
No, it would be too easy for teams to by pass Berge that high up the pitch and we need his ball winning and holding qualities.
McGoldrick as a 10 yes but then what is the formation we play? Is it 4-3-1-2, 3-5-1-1(don't think we'd ever score playing this)
I’m not advocating for him to play as CDM but sitting in a CAM position. So him being bypassed isn’t a showstopper IMO. I think he has all the attributes to play as a CAM, but his defensive qualities would certainly be a bonus in that role and probably lead to us turning over the ball more frequently in move advanced positions. I’d deploy 5-2-1-2 with Ampadu and Norwood or Fleck as the 2. Then Didsy/Burke potentially being another option for 10, and having the ability to move Berge back if needed.
 
In the first half of last season when we were fearless, flying and dominating matches, Didsy more or less played the number 10 role and we always looked better with him in the team. Unfortunately this left a loan striker up top, which without Mousset left us toothless and paceless up top.

Play Didy behind Burke and Brewster and play Berge and Norwood in front of the back four.

....oh, and for crying out loud, drop Enda Stevens.
Like it 👍
 



Do you really think, our midfield, as it’s performing currently, is protecting us from losing by more goals each week? I think it’s by far our weakest link. Changing it to try and make us more potent as an attacking force, won’t necessarily translate in an decrease in defensive cover.

Better/stronger defences are much more than just increasing the numbers a formation deploys in defensive positions. Our lack of attacking threat makes us more defensively vulnerable, as teams are stepping onto us, without worrying about what’s behind them. Our lack of athleticism in the central has led to every team this season continually bypassing and penetrating any midfield cover and driving straight at our defence.

We were promoted playing a 10, and had the second best defensive record. Similar story when we won L1. Even if I agreed that removing the 10 has made us more solid (which I don’t), the detrimental impact that has had on us as an attacking force has completely wiped away any advantage we might have gained.

Absolutely, the midfield, the way the whole team is set up, the measures we've taken to be more solid, has enabled us to stay in games without being outclassed and punished (too severly - as in heavy defeats) for having player for player less quality than the opposition. The management is not perfect but I do feel they've made sure the team has had a decent chance of a result in every game so far.

We've lost some key players and I think a number of players in the squad have probably peaked. Recruitment have been difficult, and ridiculously expensive. It's been necessary to look for younger players, but they're not proven and it's not ideal to throw them in at the same time. So we're trying to get by with some players that know our style and a gradual introduction of the new ones.

We won the two promotions with a lot of players at their peak age, and at Championship level they were very good players. Coupled with a playing style that really suited them we used our momentum and rhythm from League One, but our individual players were also very good. We dominated games and had the quality to beat most of them. There was a vulnerability in our formation, but League One and Championship lacked the quality to take advantage. Duffy was also key to making it work, often switching from ACM to RCM during games.

Compared to teams in the Premiership it's a different story. Our players are not as good as most other teams. Last season though we had momentum, rhythm and confidence. We made a formation tweak that we felt was necessary and it was hugely successful. The players knew each other and their individual roles well and we knew there were stuff that we were good at. Things that other teams underestimated and failed to prepare for, failed to deal with. That changed towards the end of the season.

So before this season, we had no momentum, other teams have realised there's effective measures to deal with our unusual style and we had a mix of players that are not going to improve and some new/young ones that are trying to learn our style. Unfortunately, our individual players are still not as good as most other teams.

I think a lot of Blades fans have been overestimating our players as individuals because of the success we've had. I still think we have a chance of staying up, but it'll be tough and being defensively solid is going to be key - as it was last season. Wilder said he sacrificed the number 10 to "stay alive in games". David McGoldrick recently said it would be suicidal to play a number 10 behind two strikers.


Looking at Fulham's goal this weekend this (image below) was how we were set up. I don't mean to analyse this particular goal, but use it to illustrate the difference between the current formation and what it would look like with a midfielder sacrificed for a number 10.

Our wing backs have been pinned pack by wide players, which prevents them helping out in midfield. This happens all the time now and we are effectively turning into a 5-3-2, i.e. 3 men across midfield. At this time we're in control, our midfield is behind the ball, the man on the ball is closed down and we have cover behind him, and inside.


Fulham1.jpg

It's very hard to create a goal from this situation, meaning the management has done a good job in making sure we've set up solidly. From a defending's perspective, it's what we can ask them for. Don't be naive, don't set the team up in a way that's going to routinely put them in struggling situations. Let it at least take some brilliance, or/and a real mix up, or more than one individual mistake, to score against us.

In a 3-4-1-2 you allow the number 10 to be a bit more relaxed when it comes to getting behind the ball when the opposition go forward. I think we'd have more situations looking like below:


Fulham2.jpg

In this edited version there's effectively a two man midfield trying to protect the same defence. The man on the ball can run freely at Basham. If Norwood does manage to push across, Lundstram will be left with two opposition midfielders, with a third looking to get forward as well. Routinely we'd struggle to cover enough space in midfield and leave the defence exposed. It would take less brilliance, often just one mix up/mistake to see them get openings.

Again, I don't think it's something that's realistic for us to try at this level. We're not good enough.
 

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