Villa...

[OrderOfStGeorge]

I believe they are paying all of Barkley's wages according to reports, reputably £110,000 per week.

I am going to guess that is more than twice as much as any SU player.

HH

Worth every penny he alone could make a massive difference points wise and win games he is a game changing player like Grealish.

 

[bromtom]

Worth every penny he alone could make a massive difference points wise and wi nine games he is a game changing player like Grealish.

So is Bale, wheers munneh fot wages Prince? Only £500k a week. Shambles.

We're not in that market, so why is it relevant to us?

Villa might not have been a Premier League team for a few years before last season, but they never stopped operating as one.

We are building up from £500k being too rich, spending £1-4m on our most expensive players in the Championship, and signing strikers for the same price as a Ford Focus, to hopefully be at that level of spending power one day, but it's about 3 years of Premier League football away.

 

[OrderOfStGeorge]

So is Bale, wheers munneh fot wages Prince? Only £500k a week. Shambles.

We're not in that market, so why is it relevant to us?

Villa might not have been a Premier League team for a few years before last season, but they never stopped operating as one.

We are building up from £500k being too rich, spending £1-4m on our most expensive players in the Championship, and signing strikers for the same price as a Ford Focus, to hopefully be at that level of spending power one day, but it's about 3 years of Premier League football away.

Well the board might want to consider broadening their horizons because as it stands we are in a relegation scrap.

 

[bromtom]

Well the board might want to consider broadening their horizons because as it stands we are in a relegation scrap.

I'm sure they'd be well up for spending £100k+ a week on wages but unlike some of our fans they exist in the real world where money has to be earned, debts have to be paid, and wages cannot be transferred from the ether straight to the player's bank account.

 

[OrderOfStGeorge]

I'm sure they'd be well up for spending £100k+ a week on wages but unlike some of our fans they exist in the real world where money has to be earned, debts have to be paid, and wages cannot be transferred from the ether straight to the player's bank account.

But they will happily pay for 3 or 4 average players that will that equate to that wage though that offer nothing at the side of a player that can win games on his own.

Quality over quantity is what we need.

 

[bromtom]

But they will happily pay for 3 or 4 average players that will that equate to that wage though that offer nothing at the side of a player that can win games on his own.

Quality over quantity is what we need.

Alright so we have the £8m or so we paid for Bogle and Lowe and we use it for two players on £100k a week, are they free?

 

[OrderOfStGeorge]

Alright so we have the £8m or so we paid for Bogle and Lowe and we use it for two players on £100k a week, are they free?

What is the point in them signing when CW continues to keep playing Stevens who has been utter shite for a long time.

And Bogle doesn't even get on the bench so I do not understand it.

 

[bromtom]

What is the point in them signing when CW continues to keep playing Stevens who has been utter shite for a long time.

And Bogle doesn't even get on the bench so I do not understand it.

Lowe and Bogle have been here for a month. George and Enda have been here for years and yeah, Enda is living on last season a bit, it'll take a while to displace them but they will if things keep going as they are. That Van De Beek isn't starting for Man U yet and they're worse than we are when you consider where they should be. Takes time, very rare players just get chucked in unless they're replacing an injured player.

I think Lowe will be in next game personally, and there's only so much room on the bench, someone will miss out.

 

[OrderOfStGeorge]

Lowe and Bogle have been here for a month. George and Enda have been here for years and yeah, Enda is living on last season a bit, it'll take a while to displace them but they will if things keep going as they are. That Van De Beek isn't starting for Man U yet and they're worse than we are when you consider where they should be. Takes time, very rare players just get chucked in unless they're replacing an injured player.

I think Lowe will be in next game personally, and there's only so much room on the bench, someone will miss out.

Something needs to change and fast and I think Stevens especially is living on borrowed time in the first team too often he goes missing and loses his man and costs us a goal or 2 it is so frustrating to watch because going forward he is pretty decent at times.

But I would like to see Lowe given a chance at some point I don't think it will be against Fulham though which is a crucial must win game already.

 

[ilovesufc]

My original point wasn't really about how much we've spent, wages etc etc. Just about how we seem to have gone backwards with our style of play and are becoming more an more defensive but not in a good way. I'm pretty sure Liverpool pay out more in wages than Villa. Villa haven't scored 7 tonight because their players earn more than Liverpool's players or even because they are better than Liverpool's players, because they aren't. Iyt simply because they've played football in an attacking manner and also Liverpool have had an extreme defensive off day. So I'm talking about our intent more than anything I suppose.

 

[WORKSOPBLADE]

We’ll do Liverpool by 8

 

[gordoncharles]

Aston Villa lost £80,667,000 in 2015/16
Aston Villa lost £14,546,000 in 2016/17
Aston Villa lost £36,069,000 in 2017/18
Aston Villa lost £68,884,000 in 2018/19

Some people seem to think that Sheffield United can compete financially with Aston Villa.

 

[Andy67]

Villa 5th wealthiest owners in the country.

 

[Guesty]

I think we’re ok as we are. We have bad games. They have good games.

Our strength is we’re not a peaks and troughs team. Smashing a team one week and then getting trounced the next. Villa did well to stay up, we finished poorly.

We’ll do better than Villa Over the season.

Mate, they're nine points ahead with a game in hand! They've probably scored as many goals today as we'll have managed by November.

 

[Begley]

Aston Villa lost £80,667,000 in 2015/16
Aston Villa lost £14,546,000 in 2016/17
Aston Villa lost £36,069,000 in 2017/18
Aston Villa lost £68,884,000 in 2018/19

Some people seem to think that Sheffield United can compete financially with Aston Villa.

Of the 80m loss in 15/16, 79m of that was an accounting writedown of the value of capital assets, it was not a financial loss. It is clearly listed as such in the accounts. 30m of the loss in 18/19 was a payment to Randy Learner which is related to the purchase of AV by NSWE. If Villa were promoted in the 1st 3 years following acquisition then the purchase price went up by 30m.

 

[Tom Bott]

So, only lost around 90 million in 4 years then.

 

[Begley]

So, only lost around 90 million in 4 years then.

Yes, not a bad investment over 4 years to give revenue of circa 150m a year. Risk and reward and yes last year was a big risk and it came very close. What are the losses for finishing in the bottom 3?

 

[essyoueffsee]

We got 1 player this window that walks into the team over loyalty. Have you seen Stevens or Lundstram have a good 10 mins let alone a good game yet?

Time to forget being loyal and start picking people who want to fight for the shirt.

 

[Trigger Blade]

Yes, not a bad investment over 4 years to give revenue of circa 150m a year. Risk and reward and yes last year was a big risk and it came very close. What are the losses for finishing in the bottom 3?

When you say came very close, you mean surviving by the most outrageous failure to give a goal that the Premier League has ever seen?

Wasn’t it also a big risk to breach the EFL rules and gamble on promotion?

I have no idea what the losses are as a consequence of relegation, but it rankles a bit to have you stating the bleeding obvious when our club has largely been run on a cautious basis over the last few years, as though we’ve got it wrong and yours is a better way.

 

[MobileBlade]

Of the 80m loss in 15/16, 79m of that was an accounting writedown of the value of capital assets, it was not a financial loss. It is clearly listed as such in the accounts. 30m of the loss in 18/19 was a payment to Randy Learner which is related to the purchase of AV by NSWE. If Villa were promoted in the 1st 3 years following acquisition then the purchase price went up by 30m.

You missed selling the family jewellery in those figures though to hide the losses.

 

[gordoncharles]

Of the 80m loss in 15/16, 79m of that was an accounting writedown of the value of capital assets, it was not a financial loss. It is clearly listed as such in the accounts. 30m of the loss in 18/19 was a payment to Randy Learner which is related to the purchase of AV by NSWE. If Villa were promoted in the 1st 3 years following acquisition then the purchase price went up by 30m.

That's a little disingenuous. Most of the writedown of what you call "capital assets" was for the reduction in the value of the playing squad following relegation. That represents a genuine loss (in the past transfer fees and signing on fees were not amortised at all) but included as costs in the year they were met.

Lerner had converted, what, almost £200 million of debt into equity in the previous two years to cover the previous losses?

And, of course, risk-reward doesn't include the fact that Villa were on the verge of disappearance before the start of the 2018-19 season as they couldn't even pay their tax obligations - until they, like Wolves, won the club owner lottery

 

[hidesbehindapseudonym]

Mate, they're nine points ahead with a game in hand! They've probably scored as many goals today as we'll have managed by November.

You think we'll score that many?

 

[Roygbiv]

I said a few weeks ago that Villa's throw enough shit at a wall transfer policy would eventually see them with an ok side simply by the law of averages. The money they have completely wasted on players is irrelevant to them as the owners have so much money. I'm certainly not knocking them for that. They were lucky last season but with owners that rich and that unafraid to lose money they would eventually have got back to being a mid table Premier League side anyway.

We can't compare ourselves to them. Our 6 seasons in League One has meant we have made ridiculous progress that looks to have now caught up with us. It was always likely to happen but I still think we can be happy with the state our club is in and shouldn't lose sight of how different things could be for us right now if we had stuck with Adkins for another season

 

[Harry's Game]

but I still think we can be happy with the state our club is in and shouldn't lose sight of how different things could be for us right now if we had stuck with Adkins for another season

In normal circumstances I would agree, but in the Covid world I fear what happens to us financially If we go down to the Championship and fans are still not allowed in. The Parachute money would go towards paying off the assets loan and any money from sales of blue chip players would have to go towards running the club Because of no ticket revenue. Where would funds come from for the replacement players we would need?

 

[Roygbiv]

In normal circumstances I would agree, but in the Covid world I fear what happens to us financially If we go down to the Championship and fans are still not allowed in. The Parachute money would go towards paying off the assets loan and any money from sales of blue chip players would have to go towards running the club Because of no ticket revenue. Where would funds come from for the replacement players we would need?

I think if we went down now we have a squad that would be strong enough to go back up and with a manageable wage bill. We would lose a few players but there is enough young proven high end Championship quality that would, in my opinion, see us be a force. I think we'd be in a much better position than most other clubs in the league anyway. Obviously though it's no guarantee that we'd bounce back.

 

[Begley]

When you say came very close, you mean surviving by the most outrageous failure to give a goal that the Premier League has ever seen?

Wasn’t it also a big risk to breach the EFL rules and gamble on promotion?

I have no idea what the losses are as a consequence of relegation, but it rankles a bit to have you stating the bleeding obvious when our club has largely been run on a cautious basis over the last few years, as though we’ve got it wrong and yours is a better way.

Yes, the ghost goal helped but still scored 35 points in the league, it wasn't just down to one game. Same can be said of the disallowed goal against Palace. Luck tends to balance out over the course of a season. There was no FFP breach, Villa has been confirmed as FFP and P&L compliant. If promotion wasn't gained or PL status retained then villa could easily sell Grealish, McGinn and Mings to get cash in if required. That was the risk that was taken i.e. having to possibly sell assets (players) at a reduced rate to balance the books.
The bottom line is that if a team wants to compete in the PL then a lot of money is required to establish a club as a 'safe' PL club. This takes risk for whatever club whats to achieve it. Maybe you differ in opinion but I don't believe it is possible to organically grow to become an established PL team. There is too much money in the PL these days and teams must spend big to compete.

 

[Begley]

You missed selling the family jewellery in those figures though to hide the losses.

Selling the family jewellery (Villa Park) was a decision made to cover spending, there was nothing hidden about it. It was a loophole in the FFP / P&S rules and Villa exploited it just as Wednesday and Derby have. It does seem crazy that u can effectively sell a stadium to yourself but they are the rules for all clubs.

 

[MobileBlade]

Selling the family jewellery (Villa Park) was a decision made to cover spending, there was nothing hidden about it. It was a loophole in the FFP / P&S rules and Villa exploited it just as Wednesday and Derby have. It does seem crazy that u can effectively sell a stadium to yourself but they are the rules for all clubs.

You can only do it once though

 

[Begley]

That's a little disingenuous. Most of the writedown of what you call "capital assets" was for the reduction in the value of the playing squad following relegation. That represents a genuine loss (in the past transfer fees and signing on fees were not amortised at all) but included as costs in the year they were met.

Lerner had converted, what, almost £200 million of debt into equity in the previous two years to cover the previous losses?

And, of course, risk-reward doesn't include the fact that Villa were on the verge of disappearance before the start of the 2018-19 season as they couldn't even pay their tax obligations - until they, like Wolves, won the club owner lottery

The writedowns were not playing staff, the playing staff had to be amortised over the terms of their contract. Also, Learner didn't convert debt-equity to cover losses, he converted it so that he could sell the club. Yes, Villa nearly went into administration but that was not due. lack of revenue, it was lack of cash flow and due to changes in Chinese law with regard to monies leaving China for investment into outside companies. Xia had his funds (if he actually had many funds) locked into China. And yes Villa won the 'owner lottery' and that is why they are spending so much but equally teams in the PL have revenues of close to 150m a year. Costs at clubs, particularly newly promoted clubs, come nowhere near 150m a year. Owners of some clubs e.g. Norwich are simply not prepared to spend that money on what they clearly perceive as a high risk. All I am saying is that if clubs are not prepared to spend a larger portion of that money on squad development they will find it nearly impossible to stay in the PL.

 

[Begley]

You can only do it once though

You would hope so but I did look into this and apparently, you can keep doing it as much as u like. However, to do it again the club would obviously need to first buy the stadium back in order to sell it again. But the costs of repurchasing of the stadium should be subject to FFP but they do not appear to be. It is definitely an area that FFP needs to fix. I disagree with the whole idea of it as it is not in the spirit of what FFP is about