Wilder's refusal to use 5 subs

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CaptainMorgans said:
Ricky is such a mixed bag. Some great player knowledge & insight into foreign leagues, but an absolute bedwetter when it comes to us.

Any dip in form and he's slashing away.

I said in another thread I'd hate to be stuck in the trenches with some of our fanbase, I think he's the ultimate. Imagine asking him to go over the top. He'd be in foetal position, shaking on the floor with a strong smell of faeces emanating from his pants. A tiny little white flag waving above his head.
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As ive learnt from recent events and posts. The rule is play the post not the poster no matter what. And that goes for everyone.
 
We had all the moment in the second half, players were getting into a rhythm. If you turn your whole line-up upside down with extra strikers and new players that's probably gonna have the opposite effect.

I'm all for using subs, but this game Wilder made the right decision.
 
I do wonder, given the late equaliser, whether Chris was holding them back for extra time which we contrived to avoid.
 

Ricky said:
(But not really)

Anyway, if I'm banned, this pathetic little man is the reason.
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I'm comfortable with that. You asked me to remove your abusive private message from the public forum because you knew it could lead to a ban. You knew it was indefensible. I told you that if you're going to use that kind of language you should own it publicly.

I removed it, at your request & was happy to end it there, taking pity on you & hoping for some remorse. You continued things on so I let Foxy know, with you in cc. that I found your behaviour unacceptable.

I honestly don't mind if this makes me "a grass." I'll own that. People should not feel so comfortable casually using homophobic slurs. More people need to be calling it out.

Also, it wasn't just the use of the "f" bomb that bothered me, you said "it's very unfortunate if you're a genuine f*****."

Anyway, I don't particularly wish to continue this discussion publicly so will leave it there.
 
CaptainMorgans said:
I'm comfortable with that. You asked me to remove your abusive private message from the public forum because you knew it could lead to a ban. I told you that if you're going to use that kind of language you should own it publicly.

I removed it & was happy to end it there, taking pity on you & hoping for some remorse. You continued things on so I let Foxy know, with you in cc. that I found your behaviour unacceptable.

I honestly don't mind if this makes me "a grass." I'll own that. People should not feel so comfortable casually using homophobic slurs. More people need to be calling it out.

Also, it wasn't just the use of the "f" bomb that bothered me, you said "it's very unfortunate if you're a genuine f*****."
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You instigated this with that fucking ridiculous reply. I kept it private, you made it public. 'Own' that.

All that talk of trenches and you go off like this on an internet football forum. Honestly, it's hilarious. ❄
 
Ricky said:
It's not just this game btw, in every one so far we've not used our options fully. We've used 3 subs 3 times, and 4 subs once.




I stand corrected on that. Forgot about the early Lundstram sub.




Camped in their half is an exaggeration. And there doesn't need to be a shitload of space for pace and power to have an impact.
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Wilder has faith in his first 11, he also gets slagged off when subs aren't effective enough.

Mousse looked terrible against Man U, he went off injured and as Wilder also stated after the Newcastle game, Jags was only on the bench for that game to make up numbers as he'd turned his ankle in training. So players may not necessarily be considered for use even if they are on the bench.

We've had 3 months off and we've not had a settled side due to injuries, suspensions, lack of form/ fitness and hendo not being allowed to play against his parent club.

I'm guessing that Wilder makes a judgement on whether a sub will be more effective than the player on the pitch, whether we are getting stability and a settled side and whether we're chasing the game or leading the game...

Today was a much better performance, still way below par, but the current starting line up is clearly the one that Wilder was intending to finish with. One of the great things about Wilders reign is that he has faith in his starting 11 to win games and part of the success has been about players earning and keeping the shirt.

Do we need to rotate a little more? Probably so, but Wilder looks at the game in front of him and gets the most out of the players for that game. Next game will be a different issue, he may be forced into changes and perhaps the likes of Mousse will be closer to 100%.

Personally i thought Fleck was much better today
 
SwissBlade said:
Wilder has faith in his first 11, he also gets slagged off when subs aren't effective enough.

Mousse looked terrible against Man U, he went off injured and as Wilder also stated after the Newcastle game, Jags was only on the bench for that game to make up numbers as he'd turned his ankle in training. So players may not necessarily be considered for use even if they are on the bench.

We've had 3 months off and we've not had a settled side due to injuries, suspensions, lack of form/ fitness and hendo not being allowed to play against his parent club.

I'm guessing that Wilder makes a judgement on whether a sub will be more effective than the player on the pitch, whether we are getting stability and a settled side and whether we're chasing the game or leading the game...

Today was a much better performance, still way below par, but the current starting line up is clearly the one that Wilder was intending to finish with. One of the great things about Wilders reign is that he has faith in his starting 11 to win games and part of the success has been about players earning and keeping the shirt.

Do we need to rotate a little more? Probably so, but Wilder looks at the game in front of him and gets the most out of the players for that game. Next game will be a different issue, he may be forced into changes and perhaps the likes of Mousse will be closer to 100%.

Personally i thought Fleck was much better today
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Even when he uses the subs fully, it's increasingly been too late recently (pre and post lockdown). There seems to be a growing focus on keeping things tight as long as possible.

The earn the shirt/keep the shirt is fine but no one should be above being dropped/rotated when playing poorly, not when viable (and expensive) backups are waiting in the wings. And not when the games are piling up.

Fleck was a bit better - and he'll play himself into form as always - but not near his best and the red card risk would have made my mind up to get Freeman on.
 
Ricky said:
Even when he uses the subs fully, it's increasingly been too late recently (pre and post lockdown). There seems to be a growing focus on keeping things tight as long as possible.

The earn the shirt/keep the shirt is fine but no one should be above being dropped/rotated when playing poorly, not when viable (and expensive) backups are waiting in the wings. And not when the games are piling up.

Fleck was a bit better - and he'll play himself into form as always - but not near his best and the red card risk would have made my mind up to get Freeman on.
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We had the ball in the net three times today and Arsenal weren't threatening much either, their first came from a daft penalty, so from all the games we've played since lockdown, today was perhaps the game to keep it as it was because it was working.

Arsenal were unusually resilient.

Its not to say that at times i'd like us to bring in extra pace up top. I don't really rate Luke Freeman, so I don't see him as a ready made replacement for Fleck.

If we'd picked up more than one point from the previous three games or if we'd not had so many injuries, i'd pretty much gurantee that Wilder would've started with a different line up.
 
Ricky said:
The earn the shirt/keep the shirt is fine but no one should be above being dropped/rotated when playing poorly, not when viable (and expensive) backups are waiting in the wings. And not when the games are piling up.
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My take on what Wilder said post match was that he’ll persist with the players who are out of form until they get more confidence. Based on what he said I’m expecting to see Fleck and Enda continue in the team for the foreseeable unless the are injured.

As an aside, If you could post proof of membership to the Rainbow Blades as an ‘ally’ then I think you and CaptainMorgans can be friends.
 
Any one just joining us! There’s not much to read on here 😂
 
derekacorah said:
My take on what Wilder said post match was that he’ll persist with the players who are out of form until they get more confidence. Based on what he said I’m expecting to see Fleck and Enda continue in the team for the foreseeable unless the are injured.

As an aside, If you could post proof of membership to the Rainbow Blades as an ‘ally’ then I think you and CaptainMorgans can be friends.
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Given what we know Fleck and Edna are capable of, and given how central they’ve been to our success this year, that looks fair enough. We don’t have a deep enough squad to jettison key players on the back of a 10 day dip in form. Especially when one of them is coming back from injury.

That said, if JOC is out long term, I agree there’s a strong case for moving Edna inside and playing Osborn at left back for the duration. That has to be a better solution than Robinson. And there must be a case for using Freeman in some capacity, if only as a default attacking sub (at the least).

Wilder is fallible. We know this. But the premise of the OP to this thread (“the manager feels that being proved right, even when he may be wrong, is more important to him than winning“) is risible.
 
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I think Wilder is by far the best manager we've ever had, and will most likely be the best in my lifetime.

I also think Wilder has been pretty shit since lockdown ended. Starting McBurnie and Sharp against Villa was daft when McGoldrick was fit. We'd created so few chances with just those 2 up top and that was a huge chance to get off to a great start.

Freeman has played 38 minutes, Osborn 0. They are more than competent backups. Stevens and Fleck, for different reasons have been really ineffective. To not use them to change things up is really poor I'm my opinion.
 
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Maybe he thinks the answer is to give the lads he thinks will be our 11 as much time to get back up to speed and only then will our performances turn around.
 
ShockingBadBuy said:
Given what we know Fleck and Edna are capable of, and given how central they’ve been to our success this year, that looks fair enough. We don’t have a deep enough squad to jettison key players on the back of a 10 day dip in form. Especially when one of them is coming back from injury.

That said, if JOC is out long term, I agree there’s a strong case for moving Edna inside and playing Osborn at left back for the duration. That has to be a better solution than Robinson. And there must be a case for using Freeman in some capacity, if only as a default attacking sub (at the least).

Wilder is fallible. We know this. But the premise of the OP to this thread (“the manager feels that being proved right, even when he may be wrong, is more important to him than winning“) is risible.
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ShockingBadBuy said:
Given what we know Fleck and Edna are capable of, and given how central they’ve been to our success this year, that looks fair enough. We don’t have a deep enough squad to jettison key players on the back of a 10 day dip in form. Especially when one of them is coming back from injury.

That said, if JOC is out long term, I agree there’s a strong case for moving Edna inside and playing Osborn at left back for the duration. That has to be a better solution than Robinson. And there must be a case for using Freeman in some capacity, if only as a default attacking sub (at the least).

Wilder is fallible. We know this. But the premise of the OP to this thread (“the manager feels that being proved right, even when he may be wrong, is more important to him than winning“) is risible.
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I don’t mind Robinson at the back short term as you say but longer term I think it will weaken us.
 

Btw, what I was getting at in the O/P (obviously enough?) is Wilder's opposition to the 5 subs allowance and a possible subsequent reluctance to make use of it.

4 games so far, 3 subs 3 times, 4 subs once. All games where we could have done with using them.
 
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