So can we afford Simmonsen? (with a twist)

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What the hell. It's hot and sunny, thanks to everyone.
 

LSF said:
Superb post DD, the Micaljos & Olle's of this world are truly depressing and generally know feck all.
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Another pathetic, amateur psychologist. Well done.

I don't expect anything different from United than DD does - not sure why he appears to think that anyone who is very disappointed with SUFC at the moment thinks that we should be in Prem year after year. I don't think that and I don't know anybody who does.

Duncs - the only thing we will never have any chance of seeing eye to eye on is Blackwell, plus the use of this forum to let off steam rather than use it as an exercise in discretion or the avoidance of speculation.
 
lenners said:
Duncan stars in his very own version of the Truman Show.
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"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts," etc etc.

There you go again Len, trying to steal my joy. Come and live on the clapper side. We have much better days...
 
Happy clapping as I understand it is saying every decision the club makes is right. I don't.

I stopped reading here Dunc, because you do.
 
That shud rouse the troops !

But not me...... its clear sumats up at BDTBL.

Has McCabe had enuff,skint or both ?
 
shorehamview said:
It's got to beat living in Eeyore's Gloomy Place: Rather Boggy and Sad though, drowning kittens and sucking lemons all day, I bet.
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Oddly, Truman eventually realises things ain't what they seem to be.
Took him less time than it takes quite a few on here but I suspect they'll get there in the end.
 
Great post Dunc, see me in the pub next season and I'll buy you more than just one pint !

UTB
 
DuncDisorderly said:
"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts," etc etc.

There you go again Len, trying to steal my joy. Come and live on the clapper side. We have much better days...
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I wouldn't dream of trying to steal your joy - it isn't worth stealing.
And come on, if you're going to spend all that time defending your posts, please give us a bit more than 'it's always been like this'.
 
bladesman1889 said:
Sorry but this is ridiculous. All the numbers are based on guesswork, for all you know you could be thousands of pounds away for each estimated salary.
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Thought you might have something to say. How very boring (again). Can you give me better estimates of Paddy's wages? The wage assumptions are completely realistic. The thread is meant to get people thinking and uses a broad range of figures to highlight the situation.

LSF said:
Superb post DD, the Micaljos & Olle's of this world are truly depressing and generally know feck all.
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I needn't reply to a post like this as people will make their own judgements. But may I thank you for your super contribution to this thread. Oh Nyasmith has just left us to be singed by Huddersfield (a league one club). Oh c'est la vie. let's all have a clap.
 
We seem to be able to afford enough for it to be worth his while coming in for another round of talks though.
 

DuncDisorderly said:
I'm not going to defend my posts. I find peoples over-reaction as frustrating as people seem to find my lack of over-reaction. Anything that is written here with the intention or objective of changing the clubs mind about anything (are you listening Mr McCabe...) is pathetic. Anything that comes from those who appear to be terminally afflicted with negativity, such that you can see real, physical anger in their posts just makes me sad.

Why is it a fact that we needed the cash more than Kyle Walker? How do you know? You are speculating just like we all do.

Nope. No speculation. We sold him, therefore we can deduce that the money was thought by the Chairman to be more valuable than the player, at the time, without the benefit of hindsight etc etc etc. Simple decision. Kyle or cash? The decision was cash.

What are the 'issues' you know of at the club? A shite manager? A skint chairman? Player unrest? WHy not talk about them rather than commentate on the reaction of everyone else who does want to talk about it?

I comment on it because of this very reason. You say the Chairman is skint. I would say he isn't skint by any measure we would recognise. You say player unrest. i say you cant find any organisation anywhere where everyone is 100% happy with everything. You say the manager is shite, but I say that he isn't, and I back that up with (what I think are) sensible points. You can believe what you like. I don't care. The problem for me isn't 'talking about it'. Its the constant regurgitation of entrenched views, or the standard tactic of starting a thread with (paraphrasing.) 'Oh God we're shit. The Chairman is a liar and the Managers a tosser, we've sold our best player, we'll replace them with a donkey and we're getting relegated. What happened to this great club of ours, etc etc' Im not singling anyone out, btw, and I do appreciate that these forums are not the home of high quality debate. :)

Well heres what I think about us. For at least a generation we have been at the top end of the other mediocre clubs in England. We haven't achieved much, but then since coming back up through the leagues we haven't had the calamities that our older cousins in S6 have had. We are a middle of the road club. Never spend too much, always do OK. We do not 'belong' in the Premier League any more than Wigan, Blackburn or Fulham, or anyone else that got lucky with some cash and find they've stuck there. With the exception of a couple of shortish periods in living memory, we haven't been anything other than the plucky underachieving underdogs, more spirit than skill. No one supports United for the trophies we win, because we don't win any. No point moaning about it. We will always sell our best players, like every other club, we will always have a few crap ones, and the manager will always be criticised by people who know less than 5% about his job, but know for sure they could do it better. He's not a great manager, but he is a decent one. I've never met him (except briefly at club events) so I dont know whether he is a nice guy or not. No-one seems to care if Alan Sugar or Alex Ferguson are nice guys. Success means not having the question asked. Why we should care when he is not as successful, I don't know.

Players come, players go. Does it bother me? No, not at all. I don't support United for the glory. What will be will be. We used to be the spirit of underdog, and personally I feel that we haven't come to terms with being expected to do well and win things, especially as that doesn't match what we can actually do. The expectations have shifted a long way over the last five years and it isn't a suit of clothes that fit comfortably. There is no nicer occasion for me than taking my kids down to BDTBL. Maybe its my own failing, because I dont care if its beautiful football or enjoying a scruffy 1-0, where we've been outplayed for 80 mins, and scored late on to win. Maybe thats because we've grown up with. Maybe it proves Lens point that we (as a support) dont want success enough, that we have mediocrity because we are happy with it. Or does it prove that we are more realistic, or perhaps we dare not dream incase our dreams are crushed as so many peoples were during the 70's and 80's in Sheffield as we grew up. (Maybe its different for exiles). A moderate provincial football team, historically seen as No 2 in its own City (how different it might have been if the pigs were 'Sheffield City'. Excellent marketing choosing a unique name.), picked on by the FA, PL, World Cup committee. The old fears don't take long to surface. We seem to feel that we have to 'prove' we are worthy, that we are the top club in Sheffield, that we deserve something. We are trying too hard. And when it doesn't happen, we strike out too much blaming all and sundry for the natural order of things.

Outcomes are what life is about. The rest is bullshit. Not for us the crusing to 5-0's, but doing Leeds with two goals in injury time, or Forest when they thought they had us beaten. Both occasion we won the battle but ending up losing the war. This is our delight. Winning battles. Wars are beyond us, but they give us better memories than anyone could ask for. My aspirations and expectations for United are limited. I think we will get back to the PL. Maybe this year, maybe in five or ten. We will get to a couple of cup quarter finals, maybe even a semi-final in the next few years. We won't win anything worthwhile. I don't know, maybe peoples expectations of success are driven by their own lack of success. Maybe I've experienced enough success and failure in my life to 'treat those two imposters just the same'. Whatever.

I dont suppose you will get my point of view, just as I struggle to get yours. It doesn't matter...

UTB, whichever angle you come from...
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Yawn, yawn. I'm flabber-gasted that people are thanking this post. All this patronising 'I'm a pragmatist', 'my life experiences have taught me not to get wound up', 'there's more to life than united' nonsense gets right on my wick. I have a good life and am generally pretty happy. I've got a nice bird, decent job and enjoy my life on the whole (i.e. I'm not a negative, depressed masochistic person). Do I get pissed off when Sheffield United are not doing well? Yes. Do I get upset when the board and manager make poor decisions? No. Does that make me an unbalanced, depressed negative person? Absolutely not. Do I feel that as a fan I have the right to critique the baords decisions? Yes. Does it make me a knocker? No. I give credit where it is due and criticise when it is due. Simple as. I'm not very optimistic at the moment, but I don't think the club are giving the fans a lot to be optimistic about.

Back to the post. So can we afford Simonsen? Many Blades fans (particularly on this post) say that we can't. So it is NO. Sheffield United will not pay his wages. But hang on, my reasoning above shows that we could afford to pay him a reasonable wage (after procuring on a free). Surely he'd take regular football and 15k a week? It seems to me that the actual answer is a YES. The question then comes to are United willing to pay him the cash? Maybe he'd take a cut to 12/13k a week if we offered him a 3 year contract (after all he's 31).
 
You can't offer a player 15K a week while you are trying to pull down the wage bill. Your top players would go mental for starters after being asked to take a cut for the benefit of the team and then you bring someone in on double the average 1st teamers salary.
 
Flatulent_Bob said:
You can't offer a player 15K a week while you are trying to pull down the wage bill. Your top players would go mental for starters after being asked to take a cut for the benefit of the team and then you bring someone in on double the average 1st teamers salary.
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Do you have anything to evidence this?

If we were willing to pay Paddy over 10k then why not stretch the boundaries and pay a bit extra for a better keeper? I'd take a guess that Henderson, Sharp, Evans and Bogdanovic are all earning more than 10k a week. I'd be shocked if Ward, Williamson, Quinn and Morgs were on less than 8k a week. If you sign someone on a free then does it justify paying them more? SS might take less than 15k, say 12/13 if we offer the right deal. that's less than Hendersons rumoured wage demands.
 
With kenny officiallty gone then there is more emphasis on this.

(Bob you didn't answer my questions before. You said you have inside info at the club. I'm not interested in who it is, but I'b interested for you to spell out the facts, i.e. who is earning what an what the average salaries are etc).
 
Ollessendro said:
Thought you might have something to say. How very boring (again). Can you give me better estimates of Paddy's wages? The wage assumptions are completely realistic. The thread is meant to get people thinking and uses a broad range of figures to highlight the situation.
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How do you know they're realistic? Do you know the wages of ANY first team players for sure? I doubt it, and personally I'm not going to waste my time guessing players wages without having the foggiest what they actually are.
 
Ollessendro said:
With kenny officiallty gone then there is more emphasis on this.

(Bob you didn't answer my questions before. You said you have inside info at the club. I'm not interested in who it is, but I'b interested for you to spell out the facts, i.e. who is earning what an what the average salaries are etc).
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Sorry Olle I didn't read that part and I think we are having discussions across two threads and jumping between the two.

I honestly don't know what everyone is on bar for a couple who don't exactly keep it a secret. Naysmith was on 18K, I've heard that figure from players/coaches and academy folk all the same figures.

We also know that Birch is aiming for a wage bill of £6 Million ideally, that was from his own mouth.
But even if we use £8 Million a year which is more likely for this season that an average wage of £7,692K/man/week over a 20 man squad.

Even loading the argument in your favour (£8 Million wage bill rather than the aimed £6 Million, 20 man squad rather than 24-25) paying SS £15K a week would be double the average squad salary. Now when the likes of Morgan and Monty have taken pay cuts to sign new deals how would they respond to SS being made our top earner.
If I was captain I wouldn't be happy.

It really depends on what they want to do, the other option we are looking at would require less wages but a fee so its swings and roundabouts.
I don't disagree that SS would be a great signing but I think we should offer no more than 10-12K in keeping with his ability but not miles out infront.

In regards to Bogdanovic I don't believe we contribute to 100% of his salary. I have no idea what Ched is on but you are right about Billy and Henderson being over 8K, they are actually on quite a bit more but they weren't signed under the new wage structure. Probably the reason why at least one of them won't be here come the end of the month.

Incidentally I think this whole discussion will be mute within the next few days.
 
I needn't reply to a post like this as people will make their own judgements. But may I thank you for your super contribution to this thread. Oh Nyasmith has just left us to be singed by Huddersfield (a league one club). Oh c'est la vie. let's all have a clap.[/QUOTE]

But you just couldn't resist could you!:rolleyes:
 
Flatulent_Bob said:
Sorry Olle I didn't read that part and I think we are having discussions across two threads and jumping between the two.

I honestly don't know what everyone is on bar for a couple who don't exactly keep it a secret. Naysmith was on 18K, I've heard that figure from players/coaches and academy folk all the same figures.

We also know that Birch is aiming for a wage bill of £6 Million ideally, that was from his own mouth.
But even if we use £8 Million a year which is more likely for this season that an average wage of £7,692K/man/week over a 20 man squad.

Even loading the argument in your favour (£8 Million wage bill rather than the aimed £6 Million, 20 man squad rather than 24-25) paying SS £15K a week would be double the average squad salary. Now when the likes of Morgan and Monty have taken pay cuts to sign new deals how would they respond to SS being made our top earner.
If I was captain I wouldn't be happy.

It really depends on what they want to do, the other option we are looking at would require less wages but a fee so its swings and roundabouts.
I don't disagree that SS would be a great signing but I think we should offer no more than 10-12K in keeping with his ability but not miles out infront.

In regards to Bogdanovic I don't believe we contribute to 100% of his salary. I have no idea what Ched is on but you are right about Billy and Henderson being over 8K, they are actually on quite a bit more but they weren't signed under the new wage structure. Probably the reason why at least one of them won't be here come the end of the month.

Incidentally I think this whole discussion will be mute within the next few days.
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Ok Bob, thanks for info. The thread was initially set up to see if we could mathematically afford to pay for SS. By my calculations we probably can, but there is clearly more to it than that. I take your points about the falling wage bill and other players. Plus the whole 6-8 million salary band.

Where we not planning to offer Paddy 10k plus to stay? Media reports suggested that QPR were offering 20k, which was double United's offer. I agree with you that we should offer SS something in the region of what you said.

bladesman1889 said:
How do you know they're realistic? Do you know the wages of ANY first team players for sure? I doubt it, and personally I'm not going to waste my time guessing players wages without having the foggiest what they actually are.
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One of the easiest things to do is to try and pick holes in peoples arguments, but real value comes from offering helpful suggestions or insights. Unfortunetely you don't have any insights and just want to criticise for the sake of it. You have some gripe with me because I have been critical of some of your posts and you just want to try and put a stick in the spokes.

Ive asked you questions as to whether you can offer a better insight on paddy's salary but your response is 'I'm not going to wate my time trying to guess it'. Why bother wasting my time, your time and everybody else (who has to read it) with your lacklustre posts?

The fact is that you know my estimtes on Paddy's salary are perfectly reasonable and that is why you have not offered anythig to this thread. You wouldn't not be opposing this thread if it was a clapper who had started it or if I had not said your defense of Blackwell and Henderson was pathetic.
 
"So can we afford Simmonsen? (with a twist)"

If this means a twisted ankle then yes United will be happy to buy him. They only buy crocks.

Seriously though, he would be a more than adequate replacement for Paddy. On the right terms (for a change) he would be worth the investment.
 
Those pesky Government Bodies.
 
LouTheBlade said:
On the right terms (for a change) he would be worth the investment.
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What are those terms Lou? Bob and I seem to agree that a 3 yeard deal on around 10-12k a week might tempt him. He's obviously been earning a lot more for the last few years, but he'd be willing to take a cut for fist team football (his words not mine). By offering him a 3 year deal (he's 31 and no spring chicken) we might clinch him. But if he is available on a free then might someone elase pip us to him (maybe the mighty Huddersfield could snatch someone else from under our noses).

I think it is safe to assume that we were offering Paddy around 10k a week to stay (Birch said Paddy turned down a new contract and chose QPR) and possibly more. Hence we can offer SS similar money (maybe a bit more with the revenue from the transfer). It seems that SS is available and within our (financial) reach.

Capturing SS would be a forward step. He is as good, if not better than Kenny. Singing him on the right terms would bring in better than what we already had without losing out financially. Losing Kenny seems (at least at this moment) like a backwards step, not to mention a huge PR disaster and embarrassment to the club. However this could be reversed by bringing in a more able keeper such as SS.
 

Ollessendro said:
What are those terms Lou? Bob and I seem to agree that a 3 yeard deal on around 10-12k a week might tempt him. He's obviously been earning a lot more for the last few years, but he'd be willing to take a cut for fist team football (his words not mine). By offering him a 3 year deal (he's 31 and no spring chicken) we might clinch him. But if he is available on a free then might someone elase pip us to him (maybe the mighty Huddersfield could snatch someone else from under our noses).

I think it is safe to assume that we were offering Paddy around 10k a week to stay (Birch said Paddy turned down a new contract and chose QPR) and possibly more. Hence we can offer SS similar money (maybe a bit more with the revenue from the transfer). It seems that SS is available and within our (financial) reach.

Capturing SS would be a forward step. He is as good, if not better than Kenny. Singing him on the right terms would bring in better than what we already had without losing out financially. Losing Kenny seems (at least at this moment) like a backwards step, not to mention a huge PR disaster and embarrassment to the club. However this could be reversed by bringing in a more able keeper such as SS.
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Indeed if secured it would actually be a step forward in my opinion. If it is a free transfer we would of actually secured a better keeper on similar terms to what we were offering Paddy and we'd be 750K (minus signing on fee) up.
Of course there is a nagging feeling that we've sold Paddy for less than his market value but we when the clause was put in we were between a rock and a hard place.
 
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