Stadium and facilities redevelopment post KMC

[Deadbat]

Can someone explain what is poor about our training facilities & what the upgrades would be. Thanks.

To repeat an earlier post on a different thread...sorry for duplication

When you watch these videos then you realise why Wilder is banging on about our training facilities.

The first team area is basically a shed inside. The indoor facility is good in terms of the main academy building for playing when the weather is inclimate and the pitches at the back are flat but the changing/gym/canteen are League One.

Most at the top level have state of the art facilities, huge gyms, social areas, hydro pools (some even a large swimming pool). Ours are embarrassingly poor by comparison. They barely have enough room to change, eat and the gym facility is cramped. We have no recovery facilities such as the cryotherapy chambers many clubs have.

Assuming they are to stay at Shirecliffe then not sure what they can do. Maybe they would have to build on one of the car parks or pitches as simply demolishing current facility and rebuilding it would mean there is insufficient space'

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

To repeat an earlier post on a different thread...sorry for duplication

When you watch these videos then you realise why Wilder is banging on about our training facilities.

The first team area is basically a shed inside. The indoor facility is good in terms of the main academy building for playing when the weather is inclimate and the pitches at the back are flat but the changing/gym/canteen are League One.

Most at the top level have state of the art facilities, huge gyms, social areas, hydro pools (some even a large swimming pool). Ours are embarrassingly poor by comparison. They barely have enough room to change, eat and the gym facility is cramped. We have no recovery facilities such as the cryotherapy chambers many clubs have.

Assuming they are to stay at Shirecliffe then not sure what they can do. Maybe they would have to build on one of the car parks or pitches as simply demolishing current facility and rebuilding it would mean there is insufficient space'

And is it the "Old Sports Club" building that's the problem? That's what you mean by "the first team area" is it?

 

[I should coco]

The question has always been “where’s the money coming from”.

We still don’t even know if there is this kind of money and won’t have any idea until the assets are purchased from McCabe.

The Premier League Money Tree.

It is much bigger than any money tree our more spendthrift fans have used in the past. Plenty were saying we should have spent £100m on transfer fees (out of the £180m minimum we should get for one season). As ever wages are completely ignored and of course all the cost of the new Kop and South Stand will also come out of this bottomless pot.

Oh, and Shirecliffe.

Oh, and the new global scouting network.

This all assumes that HRH won't be dipping into the PL money to pay KM the £50-60m for the property assets.

I know I sound like a broken record, but maybe get ourselves established first, before we spend the money several time over?

 

[Varkanoid]

This is the first season Bramall Lane is almost 100% true Blades with casuals, students and neutrals/ floaters now have to jump through loads of hoops.
Other clubs don‘t make it so difficult to buy tickets, at other clubs, tickets go on sale many weeks earlier with “general sale” meaning general sale.

So you've never tried to buy tickets for Liverpool, Man U, Tottenham, etc etc more chance of taking over from President Trump than getting tickets there!
I saw ticket touts selling tickets for £500+ for Liverpool v SUFC.

I agree they got in a mess at the beginning but I dont mind them not going on general sale with no restrictions means its easier for me to get tickets.

Try getting tickets for Leeds United now thats impossible. My mate had 10 PC's at work logged into the website and 4 phones and still he couldnt get tickets as they sold out in 9 minutes. Also there tickets go on sale very short period before the match like less than eg 10 days whereas at the Lane its a few weeks sometimes longer.

I think you need to clarify your statement as other clubs are harder to buy tickets for and dont have loyalty points and do have them on general sale.

 

[Sean Thornton]

The Premier League Money Tree.

It is much bigger than any money tree our more spendthrift fans have used in the past. Plenty were saying we should have spent £100m on transfer fees (out of the £180m minimum we should get for one season). As ever wages are completely ignored and of course all the cost of the new Kop and South Stand will also come out of this bottomless pot.

Oh, and Shirecliffe.

Oh, and the new global scouting network.

This all assumes that HRH won't be dipping into the PL money to pay KM the £50-60m for the property assets.

I know I sound like a broken record, but maybe get ourselves established first, before we spend the money several time over?

SFM

 

[JohnDenver]

And is it the "Old Sports Club" building that's the problem? That's what you mean by "the first team area" is it?

I think Wilder has said as much, yes.

Although at Prem level, and with a growing women’s team, maybe we need more pitches and indoor playing space? Not sure.

 

[snootyfenooty]

What about the seats at the other end of the ground in the BLUT?

The "new" ground capacity as indicated by the Liverpool game which was officially sold out is 31.7k. The remainder of the home games were between this figure as a maximum and 30k as a minimum. In other words we have been running at between 95 - 100% of capacity. When your capacity is tested to this level every game it means your capacity is inadequate. Potential newcomer fans will be aware of this and it will be a deterrent to them even bothering enquiring about the availability of tickets in the first place.

From the posts on this forum it has become apparent there is considerable resentment from a section of our fans regarding new faces appearing at games, especially away ones. The typical reaction is "Uh where were they when we were in league 1" or something like that. The ability to talk our fanbase down is equally ridiculous as that lot's habit of talking it up. We should be embracing every potential new fan who wants to come to a game and going to every length possible to get them down to the Lane. That means increasing ground capacity, the sooner the better before folk decide they've got better things to spend their money on.

Those who think a 30k capacity stadium for a PL club in a city the size of Sheffield is adequate are having a laugh. Small time doesn't even describe them. They're as deluded as that lot up the road, they just happen to be at the other end of the spectrum that's all.

 

[Deadbat]

And is it the "Old Sports Club" building that's the problem? That's what you mean by "the first team area" is it?

Yes. It is a ramshackle building that has insufficient changing and dining areas. Has barely enough showers and the gym is cramped. We have no real social area accept that small bit overlooking the academy pitches and no recovery areas/facilities. It may not be important to some fans but when you are trying to attract players it will be a bit embarrassing for Wilder to take them round there. Even some lower league teams (Fleetwood for instance) have better facilities.

Leicester are building a 100 million facility currently. Bournemouth have just had plans for a new facility rubber stamped and even Reading in the league below are spending a ton on a new training ground.

We have to change that if we stay up.

 

[FallowfieldBlade]

The main reason we haven't sold out matches like Arsenal and Liverpool is because we barely have 30,000 fans who are prepared to pay £40 for a ticket and make the effort to go to a match.

There is 100000% 30,000 fans who would pay 40 quid there’s probably 35

 

[FallowfieldBlade]

What about the seats at the other end of the ground in the BLUT?

No excuse for those but if we want to stay as a prem club doing the KOP is the sensible logical thing.

Just like letting any part time casual fan buy a ticket would seem to be logical as that would make them blades generate revenue grow the club etc ..

But the club still refuse to put home tickets to general sale.

And no the away team not selling there tickets out 3 days before the match does not mean they go to general sale

 

[LoughboroBlade]

I remember CW saying we needed to upgrade Shirecliffe. Infact I remember Abdullah during the trial mentioning possibly even selling Shirecliffe and building a new training ground elsewhere. What about the current stadium plans. Will they be shelved and something 'grander' out into place?

Musaad said in the fans forum that they hoped to consult with fans soon on possible improvements to the stadium.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

 

[ShockingBadBuy]

The main reason we haven't sold out matches like Arsenal and Liverpool is because we barely have 30,000 fans who are prepared to pay £40 for a ticket and make the effort to go to a match.

There is 100000% 30,000 fans who would pay 40 quid there’s probably 35

40 quid is a lot of money, for a lot of people. Especially if we’re at home twice or more in a month. Exponentially so if you’re paying for other family members as well.

If you disagree with this then you’re either fortunate (in which case good luck to you), or you’re wilfully blind to the economic realities many of our supporters face.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Essentially Utd sold Season Tickets at "might be in The Championship" prices. And are selling match tickets at "are in the Premier League" prices. If we have a somewhat comfortable end of season, with safety more or less secured in plenty of time, then get ready, because we could dramatically hike 2020/21 Season Tickets to "are in the Premier League" prices.

 

[Superblades]

Can someone explain what is poor about our & what the upgrades would be. Thanks.

Wilder keeps mentioning the Swansea training facilities in his interviews and that we should be looking to go down that route:

Behind the scenes at Swansea City's new multi-million pound training facility

The latest phase of development at Swansea City's Fairwood training base is complete and it's very impressive

www.google.co.uk

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Essentially Utd sold Season Tickets at "might be in The Championship" prices. And are selling match tickets at "are in the Premier League" prices. If we have a somewhat comfortable end of season, with safety more or less secured in plenty of time, then get ready, because we could dramatically hike 2020/21 Season Tickets to "are in the Premier League" prices.

I'd pay an extra tenner or Prem football.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

Can someone explain what is poor about our training facilities & what the upgrades would be. Thanks.

Oli Norwood mentioned that the toilets are part of the changing room, so it can “get a bit whiffy in there”.

One minor example..

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Oli Norwood mentioned that the toilets are part of the changing room, so it can “get a bit whiffy in there”.

One minor example..

Some sort of air freshener - £1.99 tops.....

 

[bromtom]

Some sort of air freshener - £1.99 tops.....

Premier League now, think we can stretch to an Ambi Pur 3volution, can get a plug in and 2 refills for 8 quid at Tesco.

It's money out of the transfer budget but worth it for player wellbeing.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Wilder keeps mentioning the Swansea training facilities in his interviews and that we should be looking to go down that route:

Behind the scenes at Swansea City's new multi-million pound training facility

The latest phase of development at Swansea City's Fairwood training base is complete and it's very impressive

www.google.co.uk

I went to Swansea's Academy to watch our U23s in a floodlit Premier League Cup Semi Final. They actually have a three or four row covered stand down one touchline for "us" punters to sit in & watch football. That's the only Academy I've been to which has anything like that. Most, including ours, you just stand in the mud in the pouring rain.

 

[Upton_Blade]

Do we really need yet another ground redevelopment thread???

 

[Houston_Blade]

The "new" ground capacity as indicated by the Liverpool game which was officially sold out is 31.7k. The remainder of the home games were between this figure as a maximum and 30k as a minimum. In other words we have been running at between 95 - 100% of capacity. When your capacity is tested to this level every game it means your capacity is inadequate. Potential newcomer fans will be aware of this and it will be a deterrent to them even bothering enquiring about the availability of tickets in the first place.

From the posts on this forum it has become apparent there is considerable resentment from a section of our fans regarding new faces appearing at games, especially away ones. The typical reaction is "Uh where were they when we were in league 1" or something like that. The ability to talk our fanbase down is equally ridiculous as that lot's habit of talking it up. We should be embracing every potential new fan who wants to come to a game and going to every length possible to get them down to the Lane. That means increasing ground capacity, the sooner the better before folk decide they've got better things to spend their money on.

Those who think a 30k capacity stadium for a PL club in a city the size of Sheffield is adequate are having a laugh. Small time doesn't even describe them. They're as deluded as that lot up the road, they just happen to be at the other end of the spectrum that's all.

I know that the reason we haven’t sold out is because of our own inadequate processes, however I think that our tipping point is around 32k. More than this and we’ll attract the odd few for the big games but will then have a few thousand unsold for the other games. As someone who likes to see full grounds I’d like to see the demand before we create the supply.

There’s nothing worse than seeing sparse grounds for PL games, Southampton v Leicester last week being a good example even prior to them shipping a ton of goals. At the start of the game it was bad weather, Sky, Friday night etc. Loads of empty seats. We’d be the same.

 

[Grizzly blade]

The whole point of redevelopment is not to only increase capacity, but to provide value for money for supporters, as well as making it a place where supporters will want to spend their time.

The Kop is poor.
I’m an average medium sized bloke and i find it cramped! So anyone with larger waist, chest or longer legs than me must be uncomfortable.
Add to that the view, with shallow rake and those damn pillars!
Further more, the facilities beyond the seating area are also archaic, with insufficient toilets and food/drink facilities.

So for me, increasing the size and capacity of the KOP isn’t an answer at all, as that would just compound problems we already have. However, building a new Kop with a similar or very slight increase in capacity but with fantastic and comfortable views for fans....with excellent access on and off the viewing area, sufficient clean toilets and quality food and drink stalls might encourage fans to get to the ground early and spend their cash with the club rather than filling out the local pubs.

So if we want to increase capacity, we look elsewhere. We fill in the corners. Add a tier to the south stand. Consider expansion/knocking down John street and doing it again. But only when we are sure it’s necessary, and that means when we are sure we will be in the premier as an established side, challenging from mid table upwards and always well clear of relegation.
In all honesty we missed the best time to sort the Kop. I stated years back that even though we were league 1, it was the ideal time to sort the Kop. We could have done the redevelopment with little to no effect on attendances. I realise money was tighter, however nobody pays for such things up front and generally borrow the cash from somewhere, with lots of clubs doing it.

But we are where we are.

 

[Keen Blade]

If 'Ar Kev' walks off into the sunset with a nice payout, but things are sour with HRH. What would you think may happen with any stadium or facilities redevelopments?
I remember CW saying we needed to upgrade Shirecliffe. Infact I remember Abdullah during the trial mentioning possibly even selling Shirecliffe and building a new training ground elsewhere. What about the current stadium plans. Will they be shelved and something 'grander' out into place? And would Scarborough be booted off any redevelopment plans and someone else designing and building the new bits if things turn badly for KMC/HRH?

Nothing will happen whilst Kevin continues his appeal.
If Kevin drops his appeal , the Club & the Prince become synonymous.
And the Club will have to find the money (£40-£50m seems to be the estimate on here) to buy Kevin's property assets (BL , the hotel, the business centre, Shirecliffe & Crookes).
So there won't be anything left for ground improvements , especially as we need to pay for good players to survive in the Prem.
Though I'm sure that if Shirecliffe becomes a deal-breaker for CW , then the Club will do something about training facilities in order to hang on to such a good manager.
Once the ST renewal prices increase next summer (if we're in the Prem) , we'll not need any more than a 30k capacity.
And if you think the Club is going to pay for a new roof on the Kop , just to shift dem poles , you are too optimistic.
They are not going to spend big chunks which cannot bring a financial return.
Let's walk before we try to run.

 

[YES Blade]

I know that the reason we haven’t sold out is because of our own inadequate processes, however I think that our tipping point is around 32k. More than this and we’ll attract the odd few for the big games but will then have a few thousand unsold for the other games. As someone who likes to see full grounds I’d like to see the demand before we create the supply.

There’s nothing worse than seeing sparse grounds for PL games, Southampton v Leicester last week being a good example even prior to them shipping a ton of goals. At the start of the game it was bad weather, Sky, Friday night etc. Loads of empty seats. We’d be the same.

It's not the capacity for us average fan in the cheap seats which is the problem, it's the executive boxes/facilities that we lack e.g. the reason Spurs blew £1bn on a new stadium. The company I work for was looking to take a client to a match this season and everything was apparently sold out for the whole season, how many millions has the club lost out on because of that?

 

[guancheblade]

I know that the reason we haven’t sold out is because of our own inadequate processes, however I think that our tipping point is around 32k. More than this and we’ll attract the odd few for the big games but will then have a few thousand unsold for the other games. As someone who likes to see full grounds I’d like to see the demand before we create the supply.

There’s nothing worse than seeing sparse grounds for PL games, Southampton v Leicester last week being a good example even prior to them shipping a ton of goals. At the start of the game it was bad weather, Sky, Friday night etc. Loads of empty seats. We’d be the same.

Or maybe the rules around buying home tickets would be relaxed as we'd have a greater capacity, therefore filling the ground as supply can meet demand.

 

[Tuns25]

Currently we must have one of the smallest percentage increases in home fans following a promotion to the prem for any club with spare capacity to fill. Completely the fault of the club for the reasons many have stated.

So many examples of clubs that have seized the opportunity of promotion and or prem success to grow. Look at Wolves and their plans - are they really on a different planet to us? Sensible ground redevelopment and sensible pricing and a big push to max season ticket sales instead of getting greedy sets the club up. Gate revenue is far less significant in the prem and we must remember the economic realities of many of our core support and the ease of watching on TV.

With a a bigger away capacity and a more dynamic and hassle-free way of selling tickets to home fans then 40,000 gates easily achievable for several games like the Manchester clubs Spurs Liverpool even Newcastle etc

 

[Berkshire Blade]

Nothing will happen whilst Kevin continues his appeal.
If Kevin drops his appeal , the Club & the Prince become synonymous.
And the Club will have to find the money (£40-£50m seems to be the estimate on here) to buy Kevin's property assets (BL , the hotel, the business centre, Shirecliffe & Crookes).
So there won't be anything left for ground improvements , especially as we need to pay for good players to survive in the Prem.

No The Prince has to find the money. And he'll find it via premier league payments.

 

[snootyfenooty]

No The Prince has to find the money. And he'll find it via premier league payments.

Oh dear. is this before or after he has:

Fired Wilder
Replaced him with an Italian
Sold the ground
Built a retail park on it
Relocated us to Catcliffe to a soulless Meccano kit ground
Bought an American football team with the proceeds
Banned women from serving alcohol
Banned alcohol altogether
Banned women altogether
Got Bin Laden as our sponsors
Doubled admission

There's a few more which have escaped me.

Do you lot never give up? McCabe's gone. Departed. Defunct. Expired. Get over it.

 

[Berkshire Blade]

Do you lot never give up? McCabe's gone. Departed. Defunct. Expired. Get over it.

Zero to do with McCabe. The Prince isn't that rich. It's a fact he struggled to find far lower amounts. The 50 million the court has said is the figure is more than the money he's put in since 2013. Get over what exactly?! Just care about the future/current ownership not tit for tat point scoring nonsense.