Defensive Midfield?

[Red Wing Blade]

A lot has been said about our flat midfield three this season, and it's safe to say that unless someone plays consistently bad, gets injured or suspended, it's likely to remain as Norwood/Fleck/Lundstram. Many feel that Freeman would bring a better balance and better attacking side to the team and that he's been unlucky to miss out.

The flat midfield three has often been dismissed, by myself as well, as being too defensive. However, it's proven to work as we've remained tight at the back and given opponents no room to move in midfield or to get behind us.

During the transfer window Wilder made it very clear that he wanted a box to box midfielder but didn't land one, and I'm starting to understand this better now after the recent matches.

Although Freeman would support to the front two in the "Duffy" role, or McGoldrick in the same role, neither would drop back deep enough to support the two other midfielders off the ball.

That said, in recent matches we have been playing with the player that Wilder was wanting to sign. Enter the fray, John Fleck. Our box to box midfielder.

Against both Southampton and Liverpool Fleck kept up his defensive duties, supporting Norwood and Lundstram off the ball. But when we had possession he was regularly found surging forward, supporting the front two and creating chances for himself and others. He was key to out attacking play in both matches.

So in reflection, I've changed my tune about the flat midfield three. With Flecks recent prominence it is both an attacking and defensive set up. We just need Fleck and the strikers to start putting away the chances he's involved in.

 

[Ricky]

Fleck's always been box to box for us.

We wanted a better player than Lundstram for the other side but didn't get one. He's done better than expected but we may still look to upgrade in January.

 

[JackSUFC]

I'm not knocking Lundstram as he's not put a foot wrong, and continues to exceed expectations. However, I'd love us to go out and add a top, quality, box-to-box midfielder next to Norwood and Fleck.

 

[Wright1889]

I'm not knocking Lundstram as he's not put a foot wrong, and continues to exceed expectations. However, I'd love us to go out and add a top, quality, box-to-box midfielder next to Norwood and Fleck.

I'm sorry but what more do you want that Lunny isn't actually providing? I'm genuinely curious?
Is this statement because we signed him from oxford and didn't cost us £10 million? If he had of cost £10 million right now we would be raving about this kid saying we've got a bargain would we not?

 

[PokerBlade]

I'm sorry but what more do you want that Lunny isn't actually providing? I'm genuinely curious?
Is this statement because we signed him from oxford and didn't cost us £10 million? If he had of cost £10 million right now we would be raving about this kid saying we've got a bargain would we not?

I think what a lot of us want to see is a Premiership quality version of Mark Duffy. And as good as Lundstram's been, he isn't a Duffy, in behind the front two, type of player. None of the three are. And if one of the three is to drop, I still think it would be Lundstram that would go. It is very harsh, I know.

Personally though, I don't want to rush things and I think we're still finding our feet at this level. As things progress I hope we'll get more of a hold on games and be able to think about adding a more attacking midfielder to the mix. For now, I'm fine with the current set up.

 

[ChemEngBlade]

I'm not knocking Lundstram as he's not put a foot wrong, and continues to exceed expectations. However, I'd love us to go out and add a top, quality, box-to-box midfielder next to Norwood and Fleck.

Maybe that's what Wilder hopes that Besic can provide

 

[Wright1889]

I think what a lot of us want to see is a Premiership quality version of Mark Duffy. And as good as Lundstram's been, he isn't a Duffy, in behind the front two, type of player. None of the three are. And if one of the three is to drop, I still think it would be Lundstram that would go. It is very harsh, I know.

Personally though, I don't want to rush things and I think we're still finding our feet at this level. As things progress I hope we'll get more of a hold on games and be able to think about adding a more attacking midfielder to the mix. For now, I'm fine with the current set up.

We signed Duffy's replacement in L.Freeman. Why would we sign another when we are playing a flat three 90% of the time?
Freeman has already showed that he has a lot to offer to our team.

 

[FinchleyBlade]

I still don't like it, we don't look half the team we did last season going forward. Against the better sides I understand playing it but against teams like Watford or Southampton we should be playing to our strengths, and that is playing like we did last season with the no.10.

Most of the good attacking play last season came through Duffy, without him or Freeman in that no.10 role we don't look anywhere near as fluid or creative going forward IMO. We really struggle in the final third and it isn't just the strikers, its that final pass that last season Duffy was providing.

 

[Woodwardfan]

I think what a lot of us want to see is a Premiership quality version of Mark Duffy. And as good as Lundstram's been, he isn't a Duffy, in behind the front two, type of player. None of the three are. And if one of the three is to drop, I still think it would be Lundstram that would go. It is very harsh, I know.

Personally though, I don't want to rush things and I think we're still finding our feet at this level. As things progress I hope we'll get more of a hold on games and be able to think about adding a more attacking midfielder to the mix. For now, I'm fine with the current set up.

If we revert to the old system, we have L . Freeman who is Duffy plus with legs for 90 minutes.

Second half tomorrow we'll blitz Watford.

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

I still don't like it, we don't look half the team we did last season going forward. Against the better sides I understand playing it but against teams like Watford or Southampton we should be playing to our strengths, and that is playing like we did last season with the no.10.

Most of the good attacking play last season came through Duffy, without him or Freeman in that no.10 role we don't look anywhere near as fluid or creative going forward IMO. We really struggle in the final third and it isn't just the strikers, its that final pass that last season Duffy was providing.

The only game this season that we've looked powder puff in was Everton which happens to be our biggest victory so far this season.

We've created plenty of chances in all our games playing this system.

 

[Kozzy_is_my_Dad]

I hope over the course of the season we still go to the old midfield set up with Freeman for Duffy. You don't part with that sort of money for a top end Champ attacking mid to not use him.

I'd also say he puts in more of a shift defensively than common opinions portray.

 

[JackSUFC]

I'm sorry but what more do you want that Lunny isn't actually providing? I'm genuinely curious?
Is this statement because we signed him from oxford and didn't cost us £10 million? If he had of cost £10 million right now we would be raving about this kid saying we've got a bargain would we not?

Well I did say I wasn't knocking him, didn't I?

If you think like that then what's the point in signing new players? As an example, Richard Stearman was providing us with decent performances at centre-half, but then we signed John Egan and improved the team instantly.

 

[Notts Blade 123]

Why are we talking about replacing Lunny????????? I don't even think this should be a consideration.

What about the front 2 that's where we are lacking??????

 

[FinchleyBlade]

The only game this season that we've looked powder puff in was Everton which happens to be our biggest victory so far this season.

We've created plenty of chances in all our games playing this system.

But our overall attacking play isn't anywhere near as fluid or creative as last season for me. I realise we are playing against much better sides but every game so far this season I have come away feeling frustrated because I know how much better we can play. We have gone long too often because we lack that link between midfield and attack that Duffy/Freeman give.

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

But our overall attacking play isn't anywhere near as fluid or creative as last season for me. I realise we are playing against much better sides but every game so far this season I have come away feeling frustrated because I know how much better we can play. We have gone long too often because we lack that link between midfield and attack that Duffy/Freeman give.

Duffy is the key.

 

[finlaytheblade]

But our overall attacking play isn't anywhere near as fluid or creative as last season for me. I realise we are playing against much better sides but every game so far this season I have come away feeling frustrated because I know how much better we can play. We have gone long too often because we lack that link between midfield and attack that Duffy/Freeman give.

There is a feeling of frustration amongst most of us including Wilder as he has said we can play a lot better especially first half
we now have to kick on and believe in ourselves more

 

[Sheffsteel]

But our overall attacking play isn't anywhere near as fluid or creative as last season for me. I realise we are playing against much better sides but every game so far this season I have come away feeling frustrated because I know how much better we can play. We have gone long too often because we lack that link between midfield and attack that Duffy/Freeman give.

That’s how I see it too.
It makes me smile when all these PL fans think we’re playing so well and look impressive.
Agree our defensive work/ organisation when we don’t have the ball is impressive
But when we do have the ball, we’ve not been anywhere near as good as previous seasons.

Overall I think we’ve been average and can play much better up front. We’re really missing a Mark Duffy type.

 

[Paulus]

I'm sorry but what more do you want that Lunny isn't actually providing? I'm genuinely curious?
Is this statement because we signed him from oxford and didn't cost us £10 million? If he had of cost £10 million right now we would be raving about this kid saying we've got a bargain would we not?

If you look at videos of the goals we scored last season integral to a lot of the most memorable was quick intricate interplay around the box, mainly what Duffy brought to us, we really haven't got that this year with Lunny replacing Duffy. Now, I've no doubt this is because Wilder is convinced we need a more solid midfield base so the emphasis has changed and who am I to argue with his judgment but at the same time we are finding it harder to score and create it would be good to see the options increase in this area. Much as it would have been desirable I'm starting to think we won't get much out of Morrison in this respect and unlike many I'm yet to see Freeman as a valid upgrade on Duffy. Realistic targets for me in January would be Bradley Dack or Said Benrahma.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

A lot has been said about our flat midfield three this season, and it's safe to say that unless someone plays consistently bad, gets injured or suspended, it's likely to remain as Norwood/Fleck/Lundstram. Many feel that Freeman would bring a better balance and better attacking side to the team and that he's been unlucky to miss out.

The flat midfield three has often been dismissed, by myself as well, as being too defensive. However, it's proven to work as we've remained tight at the back and given opponents no room to move in midfield or to get behind us.

During the transfer window Wilder made it very clear that he wanted a box to box midfielder but didn't land one, and I'm starting to understand this better now after the recent matches.

Although Freeman would support to the front two in the "Duffy" role, or McGoldrick in the same role, neither would drop back deep enough to support the two other midfielders off the ball.

That said, in recent matches we have been playing with the player that Wilder was wanting to sign. Enter the fray, John Fleck. Our box to box midfielder.

Against both Southampton and Liverpool Fleck kept up his defensive duties, supporting Norwood and Lundstram off the ball. But when we had possession he was regularly found surging forward, supporting the front two and creating chances for himself and others. He was key to out attacking play in both matches.

So in reflection, I've changed my tune about the flat midfield three. With Flecks recent prominence it is both an attacking and defensive set up. We just need Fleck and the strikers to start putting away the chances he's involved in.

Thought the kid from Preston was a box to boxer?

 

[Luke1993]

Last season, Duffy played the 10 role, but when the opposition had possession he dropped into Rcm to provide us with a flat 3 most of the time. Apart from being left footed, which I know cw likes to have players on their 'correct' side, I don't see why freeman couldn't do that.

 

[cahill]

We signed Duffy's replacement in L.Freeman. Why would we sign another when we are playing a flat three 90% of the time?
Freeman has already showed that he has a lot to offer to our team.

I've really enjoyed watching Freeman. A quality player

 

[cahill]

If you look at videos of the goals we scored last season integral to a lot of the most memorable was quick intricate interplay around the box, mainly what Duffy brought to us, we really haven't got that this year with Lunny replacing Duffy. Now, I've no doubt this is because Wilder is convinced we need a more solid midfield base so the emphasis has changed and who am I to argue with his judgment but at the same time we are finding it harder to score and create it would be good to see the options increase in this area. Much as it would have been desirable I'm starting to think we won't get much out of Morrison in this respect and unlike many I'm yet to see Freeman as a valid upgrade on Duffy. Realistic targets for me in January would be Bradley Dack or Said Benrahma.

Duffy comes on and changes games, but I fear age is against him, Freeman similar ability but younger

 

[Cheesebored]

Thought the kid from Preston was a boxer?

No that's sugar ray Robinson. Easy mistake to make.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

No that's sugar ray Robinson. Easy mistake to make.

Fairy fluff

 

[Wright1889]

Well I did say I wasn't knocking him, didn't I?

If you think like that then what's the point in signing new players? As an example, Richard Stearman was providing us with decent performances at centre-half, but then we signed John Egan and improved the team instantly.

Comparing Stearman and Lunny is like apples and oranges though?

Last year you could tell that Stearman needed to be upgraded as we had issues at the back.

John Lundstrum is currently one of the best players in the team? Or do you disagree?

 

[Cheesebored]

Thought the kid from Preston was a box to boxer?

On a more serious note Robinson looked different gravy pre season, albeit against weaker opposition, but in recent performances hes looked lightweight and not as pacey as I'd first thought. Not sure if he's carrying a knock but doesn't appear to be 100%.

 

[CarlMcBlade]

I must admit when I saw Freeman play I immediately thought Fleck was going the same way as Coutts and Duffy. He brought a new midfield dynamism to the side and was like Duffy and Fleck rolled into one. But since he came back after injury he’s been much sharper than I’ve seen him in a long time.

 

[Niceguyeddie]

According to wilder we've created more chances than at the same stage last season
So why change anything except the striker's ?

 

[CarlMcBlade]

I've really enjoyed watching Freeman. A quality player

It seems like a waste of his undoubted talent to be sat on the bench. Bet he’s disappointed after seemingly not putting a foot wrong.

 

[cahill]

That’s how I see it too.
It makes me smile when all these PL fans think we’re playing so well and look impressive.
Agree our defensive work/ organisation when we don’t have the ball is impressive
But when we do have the ball, we’ve not been anywhere near as good as previous seasons.

Overall I think we’ve been average and can play much better up front. We’re really missing a Mark Duffy type.

" not been near as good......" There may be a good reason for that