Missed the Point

[Fiery Blade]

Trevor Birch tonight and McCabe before him have insisted that outside the relegated clubs with their parachute payments the Blades have the highest wage bill in the CCC
If that is the case the team that turned out v Watford should have mullered them off the face of the earth if wages equate to quality.
Obviously it doesn't or Sheffield United are not getting value for money.
One of the smallest squads in the CCC yet one of the highest wage bills don't make me laugh
Either the players are paid far too much or Birch and McCabe are liars!!!

 

[happyhippy]

I went to a school which insisted that our uniform came from Harrods. Fell apart in days, apart from the rugby shirts.

Stuff from M&S and C&A, lasted ages.

I went to a school which promised some of the best education in the South-East. It still churned out dunces. Albeit ones with a spoon in their mouth. Some parents spent thousands on trying to educate pork. Didn't work.

I've paid for seriously expensive food which has turned out to be worse than a "Wicker Tikka".

Money doesn't always mean quality. In fact, sometines (Sornob), it can mean the opposite.

 

[Kev Gee]

Instead of signing premiership has beens on high wage loan contracts then i think we should be signing up & coming players on smallers contracts (ala Ward)
Wasnt this what Blackwell said the policy was going to be this season?

 

[Micalijo]

Someone made a good point on FH last night.

They said they aint going anymore because they are fed up of watching a team of cast-offs, basically it is like watching reserve team football.

 

[Robbie]

Someone made a good point on FH last night.

They said they aint going anymore because they are fed up of watching a team of cast-offs, basically it is like watching reserve team football.

How is that a good point?

If it's a team of cast offs, surely this is the same for every team in the country.

 

[Micalijo]

I call Fortune, Bunn, Nos, Harper, Cresswell, Evans, Kallio etc cast offs. Players not good enough to play at the club they were at.

I want young, upcoming players who we actually own with a manager who can improve them.

 

[puppet]

How is that a good point?

If it's a team of cast offs, surely this is the same for every team in the country.

Can you name one other team that operates in the way we are currently - very few genuine first team squad members and a massive turnover of loanees? I'd hazard a guess any team named in direct comparison would be shameful. I'm with the original post - we've swallowed this 4th highest wage bill in the CCC long enough now - how can it be at all possible given the low amount of full timers we have? McCabe a liar?? I dont believe it!!

 

[lenners]

I think the point stands. What connection do we have with a good half of the team now?
They're here for a few months and that's it.
The real sadness is selling our young players. Players you knew had come through our ranks, who grew up in Sheffield, who were really part of the club's fabric.

 

[Micalijo]

How is that a good point?

If it's a team of cast offs, surely this is the same for every team in the country.

It interests me Rob how time and time again people disect the words used to the nth degree and basically find that as a result they are arguing that they actually want to watch the shite we have to watch.

Is that what you are getting at Rob?

I know that all players come from somewhere - but surely you know what I meant by cast-off?

 

[puppet]

I think the point stands. What connection do we have with a good half of the team now?
They're here for a few months and that's it.
The real sadness is selling our young players. Players you knew had come through our ranks, who grew up in Sheffield, who were really part of the club's fabric.

I remember one of the AGMs McCabe stating that youth would be brought through the ranks and sold - the point of the Academy. Fair enough. Get a player through, nurture him, give the fans a few good years and like all teams - even Everton with Rooney - wave a sad goodbye as they move on to getter things. Then we get Naughton/Walker through. Oh its just too good to turn down, for such inexperienced players, Walker only played 5 games etc... seems fair on the surface if you over look the fact that Naughton had been at Gretna and Fradi and Walker at Northampton, gaining valuable experience, effectively being nurtured for fitst team football, reared like fatted calves and stuck in the shop window as soon as they were ready for sacrifice. Makes you sick.

 

[Fiery Blade]

If all that Birch says is true
If we believe McCabe that we have the fourth highest wage bill in the CCC
Why was Blackwell allowed to sign Kyel Reid, Little, France, Fortune and do longer deals for Kenny when they have little or no chance of playing this season and deemed not good enough for injury cover.
Why buy Cotterill never play him and sell him for a lot less than we bought him for!
Someone, somewhere must be responsible Whilst these guys are not on mega money it is a drain on resources.
How much are these loanees being paid
Now we have three keepers with Paddy coming back in the summer
What is happening!

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

I remember one of the AGMs McCabe stating that youth would be brought through the ranks and sold - the point of the Academy. Fair enough. Get a player through, nurture him, give the fans a few good years and like all teams - even Everton with Rooney - wave a sad goodbye as they move on to getter things. Then we get Naughton/Walker through. Oh its just too good to turn down, for such inexperienced players, Walker only played 5 games etc... seems fair on the surface if you over look the fact that Naughton had been at Gretna and Fradi and Walker at Northampton, gaining valuable experience, effectively being nurtured for fitst team football, reared like fatted calves and stuck in the shop window as soon as they were ready for sacrifice. Makes you sick.

As Birch mentioned last night though, this applies to just about every team outside of ManU and maybe the other top few Prem clubs, it's not an SUFC thing.

 

[Micalijo]

Very true re Reid, France and Little. Also did Willo have an injury when he signed, and Fortune? The club is a total joke.

 

[puppet]

As Birch mentioned last night though, this applies to just about every team outside of ManU and maybe the other top few Prem clubs, it's not an SUFC thing.

But they dont though do they? Name me one team who operates with the number of loanees we do? Our best academy players are all sent out to Fradi - is that to help them gain valuable first team experience (when we could blood them in our own first team, given the lack of full time squad players we have?) or to help MCCABES club Fradi?

 

[puppet]

If all that Birch says is true
If we believe McCabe that we have the fourth highest wage bill in the CCC
Why was Blackwell allowed to sign Kyel Reid, Little, France, Fortune and do longer deals for Kenny when they have little or no chance of playing this season and deemed not good enough for injury cover.
Why buy Cotterill never play him and sell him for a lot less than we bought him for!
Someone, somewhere must be responsible Whilst these guys are not on mega money it is a drain on resources.
How much are these loanees being paid
Now we have three keepers with Paddy coming back in the summer
What is happening!

These are the kind of questions that never get answered unfortunately - because they'd have McCabe on the ropes, stuttering out his party line (ala the famous Beattie interview).

 

[Fiery Blade]

Birch and that idiot Giddins kept on and on about football being a business
Then the same applies ie If poor decisions are made in outside business by taking poorly qualified staff on and then having to cover these staff with much more expensive temps then someone is accountable
Who is accountable for all the mistakes McCabe set on Robson, McCabe set on Blackwell everyone stood back and watch Robinson screw up virtually every transfer in and out.
McCabe should take a long hard look at himself and his directors - they're the ones that got us in this mess GET US OUT OF IT!

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

But they dont though do they? Name me one team who operates with the number of loanees we do? Our best academy players are all sent out to Fradi - is that to help them gain valuable first team experience (when we could blood them in our own first team, given the lack of full time squad players we have?) or to help MCCABES club Fradi?

Blackpool used 21 loan players last season

It wasn't so much the loanees though, your point was about selling young players.

 

[Darren]

Blackpool used 21 loan players last season

It wasn't so much the loanees though, your point was about selling young players.

To be fair, isn't the general point, not that we sold Walker and Naughton, but that the money we got for them seems to have disappeared down a black hole called debt and/or been spent unwisely.

£8 million could, arguably, have bought us 4 top level championship players, If that had happened, I don't think anyone would be moaning about the sales.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

To be fair, isn't the general point, not that we sold Walker and Naughton, but that the money we got for them seems to have disappeared down a black hole called debt and/or been spent unwisely.

£8 million could, arguably, have bought us 4 top level championship players, If that had happened, I don't think anyone would be moaning about the sales.

As I've posted elsewhere, I think the Kyles deal softened the blow of the loss of the parachute payments but you can't really say 'it's disappeared down a black hole' just because we haven't gone out and visibly spent £8M on transfer fees.

You're right, re-investing the £8M would have appeased the fans to a certain extent but if we needed to raise, say £15M, this season and the sales have meant we ONLY need to raise another £7M then overall the sales have helped.

 

[puppet]

As I've posted elsewhere, I think the Kyles deal softened the blow of the loss of the parachute payments but you can't really say 'it's disappeared down a black hole' just because we haven't gone out and visibly spent £8M on transfer fees.

You're right, re-investing the £8M would have appeased the fans to a certain extent but if we needed to raise, say £15M, this season and the sales have meant we ONLY need to raise another £7M then overall the sales have helped.

Birch claimed a more-or-less break even on ins/outs - surely this cant be right??? he reckoned we had spent/recouped approx £30m. anyone have any accurate figures on this?

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

Birch claimed a more-or-less break even on ins/outs - surely this cant be right??? he reckoned we had spent/recouped approx £30m. anyone have any accurate figures on this?

It's difficult with so many 'undisclosed' and deals such as Ched

I don't think he specified the actual time period did he ? He also talked, as McCabe does, about looking at the whole package including wages so it would surprise me if the player budget as a whole has balanced up in terms of ins/outs.

 

[puppet]

As I've posted elsewhere, I think the Kyles deal softened the blow of the loss of the parachute payments but you can't really say 'it's disappeared down a black hole' just because we haven't gone out and visibly spent £8M on transfer fees.

You're right, re-investing the £8M would have appeased the fans to a certain extent but if we needed to raise, say £15M, this season and the sales have meant we ONLY need to raise another £7M then overall the sales have helped.

Where has it gone then? Fans went on marches to Parliament regarding the Tevez affair... some misguidedly hoped for re-instation... others were wet-lipped at the prospect of the incoming monies. I'll bet some of those people feel severly cheated now, as its obvious where that money is going and WHY McCabe fought so hard for it in the first place

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

Where has it gone then? Fans went on marches to Parliament regarding the Tevez affair... some misguidedly hoped for re-instation... others were wet-lipped at the prospect of the incoming monies. I'll bet some of those people feel severly cheated now, as its obvious where that money is going and WHY McCabe fought so hard for it in the first place

Hmmm, we talk about simple events shaping the future, let's say the Tevez case went against us, let's say Sun Jihai didn't get sent off last season giving Kyle N a chance, let's say Naysmith didn't get injured giving Kyle W a chance. We could arguably be upwards of £30M worse off !

 

[puppet]

It's difficult with so many 'undisclosed' and deals such as Ched

I don't think he specified the actual time period did he ? He also talked, as McCabe does, about looking at the whole package including wages so it would surprise me if the player budget as a whole has balanced up in terms of ins/outs.

Yes I agree, he was very careful to word things like that. makes you wonder why such frugal and cloth-cutting, cost-cutting transfer approach allowed us to spend £3m on Chedwyn (yes I KNOW we didnt...) or at least, refer back to his signing as £3m every time it suits. Theres also reliance on the indifference many showed to the sales of players such as Stead and Quinn (A), both decent CCC players with an eye for goal and equally as good as Evans/Harper on their day... many signings left with little fuss, Shelton being another example, but they all brought in money. I'm pretty sure we've done a damnsight better on ins/outs than 'just about break evens'.

 

[puppet]

Hmmm, we talk about simple events shaping the future, let's say the Tevez case went against us, let's say Sun Jihai didn't get sent off last season giving Kyle N a chance, let's say Naysmith didn't get injured giving Kyle W a chance. We could arguably be upwards of £30M worse off !

I dont actually understand how we can be so heavily in debt, given that we were supposedly using parachute payments to cover our expensive signings and wages and all these - with the possible exception of naysmith - have left the club.

 

[Revolution]

I'm pretty sure we've done a damnsight better on ins/outs than 'just about break evens'.

Beighton did a list recently of ins and outs over the last 2 years. He reckoned it resulted in just under 10 million quid coming in, but some people said some of the figures were not right (on a cursory glance, that seems to be true). It is undoubtedly the case, though, that United have realised at least 5 million more than they have spent in that time, and possibly as much as double that sum.

Of course, this does not factor in wages.

 

[puppet]

I'm pretty sure we've done a damnsight better on ins/outs than 'just about break evens'.

Beighton did a list recently of ins and outs over the last 2 years. He reckoned it resulted in just under 10 million quid coming in, but some people said some of the figures were not right (on a cursory glance, that seems to be true). It is undoubtedly the case, though, that United have realised at least 5 million more than they have spent in that time, and possibly as much as double that sum.

Of course, this does not factor in wages.

I accept we'll never know the true figures but I'm sure we cant have done badly... still baffles me, good as he was, that we paid out Halfords wages but sold Beattie claiming we needed to reprofile the wage structure and they were on the same money by all accounts. I just cant listen to anything from the club without taking it with a pinch of salt anymore.