Ched Evans Claptrap

[Fiery Blade]

After listening to Blackwells Claptrap regarding easing in young Ched Evans, Development Player etc etc and reading posts on here talking about giving the youngster time, slowly slowly,gently gently I was bemused
Looking up his stats it reads:
Clubs: Man City Premier League Apps 16 Goals 1
Norwich City CCC League Apps 28 Goals 10
SUFC CCC League Apps 16 Goals 3
Internationals
Wales Under 19 Apps 4 Goals 1
Wales Under 21 Apps 12 Goals 13
Wales Full International Apps 10 Goals 2

This guy already has quite a bit of experience with 60 appearances in CCC / PL
10 full caps and 12 under 21 with 15 goals combined on the international stage.
This guy is not a development player and obviously from his track record has the ability
Perhaps he is not enjoying his football, tactics, partnership, manager it could be many things but something is not right!
I have been disappointed in Evans performances to date having seen him look far better prospect when he played for Norwich However much we have paid for this guy he is much better than he appears!!!

 

[SotonBlade]

I personally think it's down to the style of play

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

After listening to Blackwells Claptrap regarding easing in young Ched Evans, Development Player etc etc and reading posts on here talking about giving the youngster time, slowly slowly,gently gently I was bemused
Looking up his stats it reads:
Clubs: Man City Premier League Apps 16 Goals 1
Norwich City CCC League Apps 28 Goals 10
SUFC CCC League Apps 16 Goals 3
Internationals
Wales Under 19 Apps 4 Goals 1
Wales Under 21 Apps 12 Goals 13
Wales Full International Apps 10 Goals 2

This guy already has quite a bit of experience with 60 appearances in CCC / PL
10 full caps and 12 under 21 with 15 goals combined on the international stage.
This guy is not a development player and obviously from his track record has the ability
Perhaps he is not enjoying his football, tactics, partnership, manager it could be many things but something is not right!
I have been disappointed in Evans performances to date having seen him look far better prospect when he played for Norwich However much we have paid for this guy he is much better than he appears!!!

Those stats are a bit misleading considering almost half of his appearances have been as a sub. All in all, he's not got a great deal more match experience than Kyle Walker yet he doesn't attract the same amount of criticism when it comes to time and experience.

 

[Micalijo]

Basically, it is very hard to perform when you have no respect for the boss. I say this without any knowledge at all of the relationship between Ched and Blackwell, so could be wrong!

In addition, he isn't very good and all in all his performances should come as no surprise.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

Basically, it is very hard to perform when you have no respect for the boss. I say this without any knowledge at all of the relationship between Ched and Blackwell, so could be wrong!

In addition, he isn't very good and all in all his performances should come as no surprise.

Based on the few interviews I've seen with young Chedders, I don't think he gives a sh*t !

 

[Micalijo]

About SUFC? About Blackwell? About his career? All of the three?

 

[Fiery Blade]

Based on the few interviews I've seen with young Chedders, I don't think he gives a sh*t !

Actually, he portrays that image when he plays! Yet a good Man City mate of mine reckons he was a brilliant signing and that he was a steal at £3million (perhaps he was getting delusions of grandeur with the money Sparky is now splashing out) and that Evans would get a hatful of goals in the CCC
Perhaps, it is Blackwell that cannot get the best out of him - NO I DO NOT WANT THIS THREAD TO BE CONSTRUED AS ANOTHER BLACKWELL OUT
Just that we have paid good money for him whatever the fee and at this moment in time he doesn't appear up for it!

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

Actually, he portrays that image when he plays! Yet a good Man City mate of mine reckons he was a brilliant signing and that he was a steal at £3million (perhaps he was getting delusions of grandeur with the money Sparky is now splashing out) and that Evans would get a hatful of goals in the CCC
Perhaps, it is Blackwell that cannot get the best out of him - NO I DO NOT WANT THIS THREAD TO BE CONSTRUED AS ANOTHER BLACKWELL OUT
Just that we have paid good money for him whatever the fee and at this moment in time he doesn't appear up for it!

Same opinion from Citeh fans I know. It will be interesting to see how he plays without Hendo next week, there was a marked improvement in Hendo IMO when BT left and if Chedders is the focal point a week tomorrow we might see a different player. He has been disappointing so far but far too soon to be writing him off given the way we have played and the we we've struggled over the last few months.

 

[Grecian2000]

All in all, he's not got a great deal more match experience than Kyle Walker yet he doesn't attract the same amount of criticism when it comes to time and experience.

Difference is Kyle cost nowt (indeed earned us a small fortune), is a local lad and, to be honest, has shown more than Ched has at present.

Billy Sharp would not have taken a fraction of the stick he has in the last 18 months if he had stayed and come through the ranks rather than have cost £1m/£2m whatever it was.

The goal Ched scored in his first home game had the hallmarks of class about it. I'm sure it's in there waiting to get out.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

Difference is Kyle cost nowt

Why should fans be less patient because a fee has been paid ?

 

[Micalijo]

Why should fans be less patient because a fee has been paid ?

You've got to be joking Jim aint you?

Fans want to see success. Money spent on a flop could have gone elsewhere. OK a free flop and a £3m flop (per McCabe) have same impact on the team on any guiven day but overall, if budget is blown on a flop there is no room for further investment. If a freebie flops, in theory you can buy another player.

 

[Grecian2000]

Why should fans be less patient because a fee has been paid ?

Are you being serious?

If someone gave you a car and it broke down inside a week would you be more tolerant than if someone had charged you 10k for the thing and it happened?
Would you complain if you went to the in-laws for Sunday lunch and the Yorkies were burned? Bet you'd kick up more of a fuss if you were paying £25 per head at a restraunt!

Most people have a sense of value for money. They like to get it and will complain like buggery if they don't. I would suggest at the moment we have better vfm for one than the other.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

Are you being serious?

If someone gave you a car and it broke down inside a week would you be more tolerant than if someone had charged you 10k for the thing and it happened?
Would you complain if you went to the in-laws for Sunday lunch and the Yorkies were burned? Bet you'd kick up more of a fuss if you were paying £25 per head at a restraunt!

Most people have a sense of value for money. They like to get it and will complain like buggery if they don't. I would suggest at the moment we have better vfm for one than the other.

We're moving away from my point which is that as fans we should give the same amount of support to player A and player B particularly when the said players are of similar backgrounds, experience etc.

It's not Ched's fault that he has a £3M price tag on his head and it seems to me that people forgive Kyle lapses because of his lack of experience yet slag Ched off 'because a £3M player should be better'.

 

[alcoblade]

We're moving away from my point which is that as fans we should give the same amount of support to player A and player B particularly when the said players are of similar backgrounds, experience etc.

It's not Ched's fault that he has a £3M price tag on his head and it seems to me that people forgive Kyle lapses because of his lack of experience yet slag Ched off 'because a £3M player should be better'.

Can't agree here Fleety. Are we saying that we should expect the same from an academy prospect breaking through as a player who was happy to sign for "one of the highest wages outside the premiership"? Do you want nothing in return for the £1M per year in wages you're funding?

UTB

 

[davidpinder]

We're moving away from my point which is that as fans we should give the same amount of support to player A and player B particularly when the said players are of similar backgrounds, experience etc.

It's not Ched's fault that he has a £3M price tag on his head and it seems to me that people forgive Kyle lapses because of his lack of experience yet slag Ched off 'because a £3M player should be better'.

Thats a mint record for under 21's though i didn't realise. I think he may start if we keep ward fit. I know i have not come across as his biggest fan but some players make others player better like i believe harper would be better with monty. I think ward will help evans because wards forward play will mean ched won't have to go look for the ball over on the right.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

Can't agree here Fleety. Are we saying that we should expect the same from an academy prospect breaking through as a player who was happy to sign for "one of the highest wages outside the premiership"? Do you want nothing in return for the £1M per year in wages you're funding?UTB

A player has no control over the money paid for him, it doesn't make him a better player yet people's perceptions of him and his ability increase. Kyle was a freebie last season but is now a £5M player, is he performing that much better this season ?

 

[Micalijo]

Fiery - any objections to re-naming this string 'Jim Chimmerney Claptrap?'

In fairness I did miss your point I must confess, and yes I suppose Ched and Walker have similar price tags, although are we comparing like with like when you think Ched was our big signing and Walker is on loan costing us very little I suspect? Fair enough, I think I see what you're getting at, although totally disagree of course!

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

Fiery - any objections to re-naming this string 'Jim Chimmerney Claptrap?'

In fairness I did miss your point I must confess, and yes I suppose Ched and Walker have similar price tags, although are we comparing like with like when you think Ched was our big signing and Walker is on loan costing us very little I suspect? Fair enough, I think I see what you're getting at, although totally disagree of course!

Thanks, disagreement = claptrap

Yes, you are missing the point;

kyle, mistake or off-day = inexperience
ched, mistake or off-day = waste of money, should be better bearing in mind what we paid

all I'm saying is why can't it be ched, not performing = inexperience ?

 

[alcoblade]

A player has no control over the money paid for him, it doesn't make him a better player yet people's perceptions of him and his ability increase. Kyle was a freebie last season but is now a £5M player, is he performing that much better this season ?

you've really lost me. Of course he has no control over what's paid but it's just pure common sense that with higher fees and higher wages, there comes more pressure. Surely you can see this?

If you're saying the pressure wont help Ched then I'd agree, but it seems to me you're trying to re write the laws of human nature. And let's not do this to sooth Ched's pain. 20 thousand pounds, every week, for 90 minutes of (at best) incredibly average performance, is seeing to that part.

UTB

 

[Fiery Blade]

Kyle Walker has not played 10 times for his country and I believe he has still to make his debut at Under 21 level
Surely England and England Under 21 play against the same teams!
Evans is a Full International Forget his age Full international alongside the likes of Bellamy, Giggs, etc

 

[alcoblade]

kyle, mistake or off-day = inexperience
ched, mistake or off-day = waste of money, should be better bearing in mind what we paid

mistake or off day - you have a fair point
missing for half a season - we have a right to begin to expect better.

UTB

 

[davidpinder]

How many players has this same point been made about about? Is harper next? We have had it with howard, you have to start asking the question, Is it really the players fault? I'd say our style of play only suits a limited amount of players.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

you've really lost me. Of course he has no control over what's paid but it's just pure common sense that with higher fees and higher wages, there comes more pressure. Surely you can see this?UTB

Yep, but at the end of the day he's played less than one season in terms of games and sometimes I think this gets lost amongst all the money talk.

As others have said elsewhere, people were more patient with Wardy, maybe because he came from the lower divisions, maybe because he only cost £350K but he's played 3 times as many games.

 

[Micalijo]

Thanks, disagreement = claptrap

Yes, you are missing the point;

kyle, mistake or off-day = inexperience
ched, mistake or off-day = waste of money, should be better bearing in mind what we paid

all I'm saying is why can't it be ched, not performing = inexperience ?

Just for the avoidance of doubt Jim (I can't get these face things) - I was attempting a bit of humour. No offence intended.

There has to be more than inexperience involved where Ched is concerned imo. Either he is rubbish as well or KB has dropped a clanger. I think all 3 factors, including inexperience are relevant yet with walker inexperience is far more important imo

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

mistake or off day - you have a fair point
missing for half a season - we have a right to begin to expect better.

UTB

Yep, and as I say, it'll be interesting to see how he plays as the main focal point of the attack without Hendo (presuming Blackie doesn't have a wonderful new plan for next week).

I for one cannot believe we've seen anything like the best of him, maybe we won't under Blackwell, maybe he isn't as good as we've been led to believe, but a dozen games in a struggling team is hardly enough to be writing him off.

 

[alcoblade]

Yep, but at the end of the day he's played less than one season in terms of games and sometimes I think this gets lost amongst all the money talk.

As others have said elsewhere, people were more patient with Wardy, maybe because he came from the lower divisions, maybe because he only cost £350K but he's played 3 times as many games.

We'll have to agree to differ, but I'm bewildered by what you're suggesting. I fail to see ANY scenario where higher fees and wages are not going to go hand in hand with higher expectation. And I think it's right that they do. If you can't hack it, don't take the exorbitant money (probably 50X that of your paying customers). Let's be clear about what we're talking about - not booing a player during a game - just typing in black and white what is clearly evident.

I think it's right to have expected more from Evans this season. He's young and learning but also has a bit of experience and signed a huge contract. I'd be amazed if Evans himself didn't concede that his contribution, so far, has been piss poor. Even allowing for age and experience, the fact that one of our record signings is only in the side because of lack of alternatives says it all.

UTB

 

[davidpinder]

All good points made in your own opinions but is all of this 100% the players fault am not just jumping straight on blackwell again here but is it not his man management and style of play affecting a lot of our players?? We sign all these good players and all of a sudden they don't perform the same.

 

[Fiery Blade]

We'll have to agree to differ, but I'm bewildered by what you're suggesting. I fail to see ANY scenario where higher fees and wages are not going to go hand in hand with higher expectation. And I think it's right that they do. If you can't hack it, don't take the exorbitant money (probably 50X that of your paying customers).

I think it's right to have expected more from Evans this season. He's young and learning but also has a bit of experience and signed a huge contract. I'd be amazed if Evans himself didn't concede that his contribution, so far, has been piss poor.

UTB

I repeat myself Forget the age, forget the experience
Evans is a full international player and experienced Under 21 international player not Wardy, not Walker but like Rooney a young international player playing against other international players in European and World Cup competitions. For an international player of any standing his contribution has been poor!

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

We'll have to agree to differ, but I'm bewildered by what you're suggesting. I fail to see ANY scenario where higher fees and wages are not going to go hand in hand with higher expectation. And I think it's right that they do. If you can't hack it, don't take the exorbitant money (probably 50X that of your paying customers).

I think it's right to have expected more from Evans this season. He's young and learning but also has a bit of experience and signed a huge contract. I'd be amazed if Evans himself didn't concede that his contribution, so far, has been piss poor.UTB

Maybe you've misinterpreted what I'm trying to say. I'm not saying there aren't higher expectations, neither am I saying you'd be wrong in expecting a £3M player to be considerably better than a freebie, I'm saying that his inexperience is often disregarded because of the money we paid for him.

 

[alcoblade]

Maybe you've misinterpreted what I'm trying to say. I'm not saying there aren't higher expectations, neither am I saying you'd be wrong in expecting a £3M player to be considerably better than a freebie

Fair enough

I'm saying that his inexperience is often disregarded because of the money we paid for him.

And so it should be, to a degree.

UTB