fans negativity

[Foxy]

When Blackwell / McCabe were re-profiling the squad they knew the risks of operating a threadbare operation - in any walk of life you plan for worse case scenario which in football terms includes Suspensions and Injuries - they knew about Geary, Naysmith, Speed and Kenny before the season started so the must not be included in the equation.
As the saying goes the good gamblers can afford to lose what they are betting with- obviousl;y Blackwell and McCabe are not in that category!

Again, that isn't the point made is it?

The point made was that Blackwell was lying about injuries and that we'd only really had two.

Whether or not we should have planned or are at fault for not having backup is another matter entirely.

 

[Mousey]

Okay then, here's at least 11 players who I can remember who would realistically have been first team choices but couldn't be picked recently due to injury:

Gary Naysmith
Nick Montgomery
Jamie Ward
Matt Killgallon
Keith Treacy
Lee Williamson
Glenn Little
David Cotterill
James Harper
Ryan Cresswell
Jordan Stewart

.

Also Andy Taylor and Andrew Davies have been injured too.

 

[Foxy]

Also Andy Taylor and Andrew Davies have been injured too.

There are more to list, I just picked 11 as it happens to coincide with the number of players we need on the pitch

 

[lenners]

Again, I repeat, i'm not saying injuries are the sole problem or that they effect only us, but what you are saying is simply untrue.



Ignoring the fact that both replacements for Naysmith have also been injured....

Just how do you think, in any world, having those players injured in a squad of our size doesn't effect the first team?

I don't really expect an answer, I expect you to cloud it further with additional caveats... you know, how many long term first teamers with blonde hair who's birthday falls in June have we had injured? or something of that effect ... When your initial point was that he was lying about injuries and we'd only had two players out.

Foxy, which bits are you actually disputing?
You seem to accept that the massive injury problem extends to two first team regulars being out - and I asked you for examples of teams that haven't had something similar.
(How long has Ameobi been out at Newcastle this season, for one example?)
It isn't my problem you don't like the answers because you can't deal with them.
Blackwell made a rod for his own back by coming out with excuse after excuse, topped off with today's guff about Evans.
Looking at what he says and comparing it with reality is what most sentient human beings would do.

 

[Fiery Blade]

As you said ealier 'stop assuming'
I have just asked questions of you and lenners and you both refuse to give a streight answer. Just the same old BB type statements.

In answer to your question: IF HE WINS THE NEXT FOUR GAMES AND GETS US UP THE TABLE WILL YOU RECOGNISE HIS ACHIEVEMENTS - 12 POINTS from the next four games - Not a snowballs chance in hell ! but yes, I will come on here and eat humble pie but he needs to do a lot more than that to recover this season !
I firmly believe that recovery is beyond Blackwell now, his team selections, media comments and excuses defy logic and he gives out the aura of a bewildered man not knowing which way to turn and bluister will mask the truth!
Honestly Boo, its not about disliking the man its a case of the guy is a lost cause and incapable of recovery! Full Stop no hidden agenda

 

[boo radley]

I don't support Kevin Blackwell, I support Sheffield United.
And it's the only answer I have. I don't believe Blackwell provides a solid future for United and I very much doubt that a few scabby wins will really deal with the underlying problems at the club.
We are crying out for leadership, positivity, belief, drive. Instead we have defeatism and an ever-lengthening series of excuses.

we're all Blades aren't we? so accepting that can you please answer original question?

you dont have to be in a pro or anti Blackwell camp,but unlike you I just want the Blades to do well. You would rather the Blades lost the next four games so that Blackwell resigned or got sack or whatever so long as he left and you could say I told you so.
If we won the next four playing wonderful football (flash in the pan) or scrappy wins (we've/He's just been lucky), it wouldnt be down to him would it?

 

[Foxy]

Foxy, which bits are you actually disputing?

You know full well what i'm disputing, i've mentioned it a number of times.

You seem to accept that the massive injury problem extends to two first team regulars being out - and I asked you for examples of teams that haven't had something similar.

No I don't, my whole point is, you are completely incorrect about only two players being out. If you throw the word "regulars" into a thread about injured players, it instantly gives you ammunition to disregard anyone who isn't regularly playing (bit difficult when injured).

(How long has Ameobi been out at Newcastle this season, for one example?)

Ameobi has played 5 games this season, a massive 2 less than Jamie Ward. Newcastle have another 8 strikers at the club (one of which we tried to sign), with a number of midfielders who have previously plied their trade up front. They have more strength in depth (as should we) and therefore haven't missed him as much as we miss our better players.

It isn't my problem you don't like the answers because you can't deal with them.

You haven't given answers, you've given slightly different questions.

Blackwell made a rod for his own back by coming out with excuse after excuse, topped off with today's guff about Evans.

So it's "guff" that we should give a 20-year old player time to gel and that the manager thinks he's had to use him more than he wanted to?

What should he be saying about Ched Evans at this stage? He's crap and we should boo him? I'd imagine that'd have improved the situation no end.

What he's seeing, is a player struggling under expectations and is trying to lift the strain of these from his young shoulders.
He did exactly the same with Jamie Ward by calling him a "development player". May not have gone down well with the fans, but took the heat off him being expected to be an instant hit.

It is a bit of a contradiction when his price is often mentioned, but thats besides the point. The player is the same individual/situation regardless of price.

 

[davidpinder]

There is no excuse for the run we are on does anybody realise we are 6 points off the bottom, 6 points, thats 2 wins not to mention that we play bottom of the table next. Anything less than 3 points against peterborough and blackwell SHOULD be out of a job no one can say he should stay if we fail to win that game. We can only move up 1 spot if we win tonight and we all know who we go above, That is poor as well just shows how big the gap has got over these 4 games.

 

[lenners]

Foxy, you look back through the teams we've put out this season.
Look at who's played. Look at the experience of those players. Look at the cost/value of those players. Look at how many games they've played in their careers.
Then compare those line-ups with Blackpool, Bristol City, Nottingham Forest, Swansea or, indeed, most of this league and you tell me, really, where the excuses are.
As for Evans, it is hysterical that anyone connected to Sheffield United - fan or manager - should believe that a £3m player is a development player.
You can be sure as sure can be that the chairman will definitely not, in a million years, have seen Evans as any kind of development player.

 

[Foxy]

Foxy, you look back through the teams we've put out this season.
Look at who's played. Look at the experience of those players. Look at the cost/value of those players. Look at how many games they've played in their careers.
Then compare those line-ups with Blackpool, Bristol City, Nottingham Forest, Swansea or, indeed, most of this league and you tell me, really, where the excuses are.

Again, give me a new question to completely ignore the point we were debating

I'm not saying we shouldn't be able to cope with them better than we are, i'm not saying anyone else isn't in the same boat or worse off...

I'm merely saying, what you are saying is untrue, we haven't had just two players out.

As for Evans, it is hysterical that anyone connected to Sheffield United - fan or manager - should believe that a £3m player is a development player.
You can be sure as sure can be that the chairman will definitely not, in a million years, have seen Evans as any kind of development player.

There is a difference between truly being a "development player" and having the expectations lifted. Any player could be classed as a "development player" all players are constantly developing... His main point is, we need to give Evans time and he wanted to ease him in more than he has.

Fair enough, as fans we can say if we are spending £3mil we want a player who can make an instant impact... That doesn't really change the situation though.

You've already decided he's shit and should be moved on.... The professionals think he needs more time and has something special...

Which should we choose in our situation? and what would you be saying if Blackwell had said to the press this morning "I think Ched is shit, we will hopefully be moving him on soon"??

The manager is trying to ease the weight of expectation on the player, having identified this as a possible problem as to his performance. Doing his job wouldn't you say?

 

[Mousey]

Which should we choose in our situation? and what would you be saying if Blackwell had said to the press this morning "I think Ched is shit, we will hopefully be moving him on soon"??

I think he may have become sexually excited as the ammunition he would then have to abuse Blackwell would be overwhelming

 

[boo radley]

Again, give me a new question to completely ignore the point we were debating

Aye up Foxy you noticed his avoidance tactics as well
you gave him chance to avoid my questions too

 

[lenners]

No Foxy, I'm dealing with the matter at hand - injuries.
The bottom line is what effect this has had on SUFC as this has been constantly trotted out as an excuse.
I asked you to look at the line-ups we've put out this season and to consider the experience and quality of those teams in comparison to both other teams and our actual performance.
If your point about all these players being out and that being a hindrance stands up, you'll be able to point to all those line-ups we've had which have been decimated and had very few players of experience or quality in them.
If you're attempting to suggest that we've had players out but you also accept that, in reality, that we've had good enough line-ups every week anyway then you do accept Blackwell has been talking guff about injuries.
But you can't have it both ways.
As for Evans, as someone else mentioned, I would love to see McCabe's reaction to Blackwell suggesting a £3m player was one for the future. Priceless.

 

[boo radley]

Get some backbone and get behind the lads. Oakwell is just up the road, all this "too far", "not going to drive" "sit in the pub" etc. Lenners's comment "Barnsley is a write off already", I wouldn't like to be in the trenches with you mate.

Stop being defeatist

COYRAWW

Thanks len bet I'm with cahill and his original point

COYRAWW

Are you going to be supporting the Blades tonight? or hoping the team looses so you have more ammunition against Blackwell?

 

[lenners]

Thanks len bet I'm with cahill and his original point

COYRAWW

Are you going to be supporting the Blades tonight? or hoping the team looses so you have more ammunition against Blackwell?

In the boozer, expecting defeat and another embarrassing performance.

 

[boo radley]

In the boozer, expecting defeat and another embarrassing performance.

another avoidance to a streightforward question so i will ask agian


Duh While-you'r In the boozer, expecting defeat and another embarrassing performance will you be supporting the Blades?

 

[Vistoma]

Get some backbone and get behind the lads. Oakwell is just up the road, all this "too far", "not going to drive" "sit in the pub" etc. Lenners's comment "Barnsley is a write off already", I wouldn't like to be in the trenches with you mate.

Stop being defeatist

COYRAWW

My son and I will be there.

 

[Foxy]

No Foxy, I'm dealing with the matter at hand - injuries.

As was I, just the part of the matter at hand you discuss changes dependent on which part someone has a differing opinion on

Your initial point of Blackwell lying and that we've only actually had two injuries has now turned into a discussion as to whether or not the team should have been good enough. Relevant maybe, but a different discussion to your original claim.

If your point about all these players being out and that being a hindrance stands up, you'll be able to point to all those line-ups we've had which have been decimated and had very few players of experience or quality in them.
If you're attempting to suggest that we've had players out but you also accept that, in reality, that we've had good enough line-ups every week anyway then you do accept Blackwell has been talking guff about injuries.
But you can't have it both ways.

Actually, no, there is a middle ground.

I believe the teams we have been putting out should have been good enough to put up more of a fight than we have. Not to beat the other teams, we have no right to expect to beat anyone based on who we are. The teams should have been more than good enough to have put up more of a fight and gained more points than we have.

This doesn't mean however that injuries are irrelevant. They do have a big impact, whether it is 1 injury or 15, they always have some form of an impact.

As to whether our run is simply the fault of injuries, I don't think it is, there is far more too it that that. The injuries do have a contributory factor though, if nothing else that we don't get a settled side/build cohesion.

Mr Blackwell may well have used the injury card too much, or not mentioned other factors enough... But you are wrong to suggest it hasn't been a contributory factor and incorrect when you say we've missed merely two players.

As for Evans, as someone else mentioned, I would love to see McCabe's reaction to Blackwell suggesting a £3m player was one for the future. Priceless.

Shouldn't any player costing that much be "one for the future" rather than a short term fix?

That is partly why we have structured a deal that could be worth so much for him, he is young and professionals at United and Manchester City think that he has potential.

I'm sure you are far more qualified to say he's crap based on what you've seen so far (how much have you seen him by the way?), but others in the game beg to differ.

The only problem I see with Kevin Blackwell saying Ched needs time, is that in the mean time, others have to perform at such a level we can afford Ched some leeway. This is why we probably needed an additional body like Camara earlier, so that Ched could be eased into it if he needed to be.

In my opinion, he's right to give him time and he's right to try to play down expectations as the lad isn't having the start that he expected. He can either do that, tell him he's got to score 10 goals sharpish or drop him completely and say he's crap. I know which one I think is more likely to get the desired effect.

 

[beightonblade]

Lets all just get on with supporting the Blades.

Were NEVER all going to agree.

This bickering is B0!!0X.

 

[boo radley]

Lets all just get on with supporting the Blades.

Were NEVER all going to agree.

This bickering is B0!!0X.

Where did you come from?
By the way watch your spellings Pinchy the language policemans on the war path

 

[lenners]

Come off it Foxy.
The manager publicly states injuries are to blame - that is the debate, however much dancing around the issue you wish to attempt.
My point that we've had two players who could be considered regular first teamers injured for a lengthy period is the reality.
My point that we've consistently put out teams full of experienced, quality players is the reality.
You want to look for excuses, to encourage defeatism, I don't. I also doubt very much that our chairman will be thinking along the same lines as yourself.
And the evidence on Evans has been there for all to see, week after week. He's been absolutely shyte, week after week.
A five-year-old could see that, never mind experienced professionals in the game.
As for the desired effect, unless there is dramatic improvement before Xmas, the best thing United could do would be to offload as soon as possible while he still has any kind of resale value.

 

[Trevor Hockey]

Tell you what then Fiery we'll start history today then - and he hasn't lost one yet therefore record is great!!!

His OVERALL record is good and alot better than most in the division and those people suggest as replacements.

For gods sake lets try and get out of the slump we're in - the Cardiff and Newcastle games were improved.

UTB - whoevers in charge - I support my club not any individual

Here endeth the rant

 

[boo radley]

Come off it Foxy.
The manager publicly states injuries are to blame - that is the debate, however much dancing around the issue you wish to attempt.
My point that we've had two players who could be considered regular first teamers injured for a lengthy period is the reality.
My point that we've consistently put out teams full of experienced, quality players is the reality.
You want to look for excuses, to encourage defeatism, I don't. I also doubt very much that our chairman will be thinking along the same lines as yourself.
And the evidence on Evans has been there for all to see, week after week. He's been absolutely shyte, week after week.
A five-year-old could see that, never mind experienced professionals in the game.
As for the desired effect, unless there is dramatic improvement before Xmas, the best thing United could do would be to offload as soon as possible while he still has any kind of resale value.

No chance of answering simple questions then?
Your like a snake hiding in long grass.

 

[Foxy]

Come off it Foxy.
The manager publicly states injuries are to blame - that is the debate, however much dancing around the issue you wish to attempt.

I'm not dancing around any issue, it is exactly this issue that I've been discussing with you!

My point that we've had two players who could be considered regular first teamers injured for a lengthy period is the reality.

My point is that we have, but we've also had many more. You seem to think we haven't, so I guess the ones I've mentioned are faking it

My point that we've consistently put out teams full of experienced, quality players is the reality.
You want to look for excuses, to encourage defeatism, I don't. I also doubt very much that our chairman will be thinking along the same lines as yourself.

Again, this doesn't actually match what i've said in the slightest. I actually agree with the majority of your point (as hard I find that to believe), just you refuse to ignore the actual point i'm trying to make and cloud it by changing the discussion onto other tangents

And the evidence on Evans has been there for all to see, week after week. He's been absolutely shyte, week after week.
A five-year-old could see that, never mind experienced professionals in the game.

I didn't ask for a rating, I already know your opinion of him. I asked what it was based upon, how many times you've seen him play.

As for the desired effect, unless there is dramatic improvement before Xmas, the best thing United could do would be to offload as soon as possible while he still has any kind of resale value.

Again, which is the best method for gaining the dramatic improvement?

 

[lenners]

Foxy, he's faking the impact of the injuries and as you seem to actually agree with me I've no problem with that.
You don't have to argue with me, just accept I'm right - it's much easier in the long run as I usually will be.
I've seen Evans enough and I don't see enough raw talent - I haven't seen any talent - to hope for any dramatic improvement however much he's now being belatedly dressed up as a development player.
Maybe he'll score 10 before Xmas and earn a £5m move to the Prem but I think the opposite is more likely and if we can get rid, we definitely should.
Getting a fee and getting his wages off the wage bill to free up money for a hungrier young striker from lower down would be a sensible move.

 

[Come from away]

You don't have to argue with me, just accept I'm right - it's much easier in the long run as I usually will be.

Repetition doesn't make you right, just boring.

 

[boo radley]

Getting a fee and getting his wages off the wage bill to free up money for a hungrier young striker from lower down would be a sensible move.

That would be like Chris Greenacre who was highly rated and did nothing but did go on free's or Nathan Tyson £675,000. and scored 1 goal this season in ten apps. Sorry we all forgot top strikers grow on trees.

 

[Micalijo]

Foxy - why is Evans fee besides the point? I know the point you are trying to make in that a player deserves the support of the manager in situations where he is struggling (agreed) but Blackwell aint doing it for Evans, he's saying it in an attempt to cover himself for wasting £3m (per McCabe) of his chairman's wedge on a development player who aint going to develop. The fact is he should have said this at start of term to have any credibility in terms of lookingafter players mental well-being which I think is your concern.

 

[SwissBlade]

Foxy, he's faking the impact of the injuries and as you seem to actually agree with me I've no problem with that.
You don't have to argue with me, just accept I'm right - it's much easier in the long run as I usually will be.
I've seen Evans enough and I don't see enough raw talent - I haven't seen any talent - to hope for any dramatic improvement however much he's now being belatedly dressed up as a development player.
Maybe he'll score 10 before Xmas and earn a £5m move to the Prem but I think the opposite is more likely and if we can get rid, we definitely should.
Getting a fee and getting his wages off the wage bill to free up money for a hungrier young striker from lower down would be a sensible move.

Why would anyone have to accept that you're right? Just because you say so? Oh Ok then!

I can accept the injuries have been talked up a bit to an excuse from Blacky, but faking? Can't see that one, sorry. A lot of the injuries have been to players brought in on loan to replace an injured player or to fill a gap. We've also lost players that were just in form or showing signs of form like Ward and Cresswell.

Tonight we're effectively starting again with the back 4. Thats proper fake!

As for Evans, I don't think any of us have seen enough of him in a Blades Shirt yet. He certainly looked decent in spells and for the taffy U21's he looked decent, even with an injury. Bide your time with him, He'll come good.

As for replacing with a hungry young Striker. Well Evans is young, so how much younger shall we go? If we go cheap then I think you accepted that the cheap 300k striker Jamie Ward needed time to settle in. And as for Hungry? Surely Evans has the hunger? Do you really think, that he wants to spend the rest of his career at "cheap as chips" United.

Its been suggested elsewhere that we weren't his first choice, so he'll want to play well to get a move as soon as possible won't he?

Perhaps by Hungry you meant Hungarian?

 

[shorehamview]

You don't have to argue with me, just accept I'm right - it's much easier in the long run as I usually will be.

I bet it's been expensive for you getting all the door frames widened so your big head will fit through. Must be tricky getting massive bespoke millinery too. There's nothing like having an over inflated opinion of your own worth. I bet you've tried to give yourself a blow job too, because nobody can love Lenners as much as Lenners loves himself. Are you crying out for the day you can be cloned and you can finally shag yourself too?



And that's me highly likely to be given a holiday from here for the week, and fair enough. I can't be the only one Mr. I'm Fucking Great And You Are All Wrong annoys though, can I?