Where's Kieron Freeman?

[Bladezz]

Think Baldock offers overall a better player however Freeman offers assists but doesn’t have the engine or pace or desire of Baldock.

Guessing CW is wanting to persist with Baldock and I agree to be honest.

 

[snootyfenooty]

1. Freeman in the recent past has put in worldie performances from right back at this level. You’ve all seen it, you’ve all complimented it. This suggests he is good enough at this level.

It doesn't though. He was out for most of last season and has been poor this season. His "worldie" performances were in L1 where he has spent most of his career and suggests that is his natural level.

 

[PittsburghBlade]

Baldock hit 6/7 crosses into the first man. The one that made it through was so woefully overhit Sharp was forced to squander a great opportunity.

 

[FTPE]

Baldock finds so much space going forward. Rightly or wrongly he terrifies defenders like an out and out winger would.
We all know his end product and defending can be a bit suspect but most of that is down to how eager and enthusiastic he is, that could be worked on.

 

[Eric Cartman]

It doesn't though. He was out for most of last season and has been poor this season. His "worldie" performances were in L1 where he has spent most of his career and suggests that is his natural level.

Freeman was fantastic when he first came into the team this season. He dropped off but he started off like a house on fire and immediately we looked a better attacking team and he was providing assists left right and centre

I always have preferred Baldock, but let’s not pretend Freeman was anything worse than great when he first came in this season.

 

[snootyfenooty]

Freeman was fantastic when he first came into the team this season. He dropped off but he started off like a house on fire and immediately we looked a better attacking team and he was providing assists left right and centre

I always have preferred Baldock, but let’s not pretend Freeman was anything worse than great when he first came in this season.

"Great" is a bit of an exagerration even by your standards. Well, from you we had Wright yesterday, Freeman today, lets bring Lafferty back as well for tomorrow's topic. As with the other two mentioned there, I don't think we'll be seeing much of Freeman again in the WB shirt.

 

[PittsburghBlade]

He is one of our fastest players and no doubt a solid defender. However he often struggles with a couple things what I've noticed.

1. His end product is woefully below par for a player that finds himself in as many good positions as he does. It's not a case of "you have to be there..etc...etc.." because Wilder's expansive style and license to go forward any player playing there will find themselves in advanced positions over and over again. Think it's something people just get at? He hit 6/7 into the FIRST man when we had the box loaded EVERY time.
2. He lacks the basic concept of when to deliver the ball and when to take a man on and often ends up dribbling down a dead ends and play often has to be switched to regain momentum. Affects the rhythm and allows the defence to get back in shape. Nothing better than being a center half and the winger/full back turns back and you can move on the front foot instead of the back, so much easier to win aerial duels.
3. His defending from wide free kicks/corners is SHOCKING. He often gets way too much of the player and a handful of shirt that SHOULD'VE been punished 2/3 times for penalties and its only a matter of time before he gives away a penalty in a crucial game like he should've before.

I think he deserved a run in the team as Freeman who had been one of our best players until the international break was playing with the lowest energy levels I've ever seen from him. Overall I think Freeman is a much better option as defensively he's sound enough and a much much better option going forward, gives us another dimension with someone who can put real quality in the box.

 

[Sheffsteel]

Baldock hit 6/7 crosses into the first man. The one that made it through was so woefully overhit Sharp was forced to squander a great opportunity.

He does that a lot.
Very frustrating player, pace to burn, unpredictable wing play but always looks dangerous.
He regular finds himself in great positions and occasionally even take his man on.
The Kop all stand and cheer in antiricapition with Sharp and Leon in the box......
Then the cross either doesn’t beat the first man or is floated in and headed clear.

Agree with the earlier comments both Freeman and Balddock have big strengths but also big weaknesss.

Baldock has great pace and unpredictable dribbling skills.
A good point made earlier is that Baldock has more potential to be a star player because you would suspect his weaknesses can be improved upon with good coaching and more experience.

When you think about the tactical system Wilder employs the wing back role is easily one of the most important in our team.
Almost all our chance come from the wings, the wingbacks have a massive effect regards our success.

 

[nopigfansintown]

He is one of our fastest players and no doubt a solid defender. However he often struggles with a couple things what I've noticed.

1. His end product is woefully below par for a player that finds himself in as many good positions as he does. It's not a case of "you have to be there..etc...etc.." because Wilder's expansive style and license to go forward any player playing there will find themselves in advanced positions over and over again. Think it's something people just get at? He hit 6/7 into the FIRST man when we had the box loaded EVERY time.
2. He lacks the basic concept of when to deliver the ball and when to take a man on and often ends up dribbling down a dead ends and play often has to be switched to regain momentum. Affects the rhythm and allows the defence to get back in shape. Nothing better than being a center half and the winger/full back turns back and you can move on the front foot instead of the back, so much easier to win aerial duels.
3. His defending from wide free kicks/corners is SHOCKING. He often gets way too much of the player and a handful of shirt that SHOULD'VE been punished 2/3 times for penalties and its only a matter of time before he gives away a penalty in a crucial game like he should've before.

I think he deserved a run in the team as Freeman who had been one of our best players until the international break was playing with the lowest energy levels I've ever seen from him. Overall I think Freeman is a much better option as defensively he's sound enough and a much much better option going forward, gives us another dimension with someone who can put real quality in the box.

Really harsh. In the last two home games he's put two chances on a plate for Sharp. Freeman's end product has been piss poor this season, apart from a couple of games right at the start of the season. Any defensive inadequacy pales into insignificance when Freeman has been costing us games week after week, and can't defend set pieces to save his life. I agree with your observation on Freeman's lack of energy since his return; it has contributed to costing us a lot of games late on.Freeman's best attribute is his interplay around the opposition box which in turn creates overloads and better/easier crossing angles. His final product is actually extremely hit and miss. His aerial crossing is quite poor, and the volume of crosses is not that high either (due to his engine, and relative lack of mobility for a wing back.).
Edit: A good attribute of Freeman that I should've included is his willingness to get in on the back post when the opposition wing back is crossing the ball. It has been sadly lacking this season, arguably due to the aforementioned lack of energy and mobility. It was a big factor in his goal ratio in the promotion season. He was also extremely composed in his finishing, but it's irrelevant if he's never in the box.

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

What people also fail to recognise is that these two players we 'need to upgrade' on cost us fuckall. They have given way more to our game than many other options in the market that cost cash would have given us.

Jack Robinson cost Forest 1.5m, our 3 full backs cost....feckall and you'd take every one over crazy legs nut megs Jack.

 

[Eric Cartman]

"Great" is a bit of an exagerration even by your standards. Well, from you we had Wright yesterday, Freeman today, lets bring Lafferty back as well for tomorrow's topic. As with the other two mentioned there, I don't think we'll be seeing much of Freeman again in the WB shirt.

Freeman was great when he first came back in. Check the results as a direct comparison if you like.

 

[Eric Cartman]

What people also fail to recognise is that these two players we 'need to upgrade' on cost us fuckall. They have given way more to our game than many other options in the market that cost cash would have given us.

Jack Robinson cost Forest 1.5m, our 3 full backs cost....feckall and you'd take every one over crazy legs nut megs Jack.

He was free.

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

He was free.

Apologies, was thinking of Jack Hunt.

 

[Eric Cartman]

Apologies, was thinking of Jack Hunt.

Thank god for that! Robinson’s decent, Hunt is cack.

 

[PittsburghBlade]

Really harsh. In the last two home games he's put two chances on a plate for Sharp. Freeman's end product has been piss poor this season, apart from a couple of games right at the start of the season. Any defensive inadequacy pales into insignificance when Freeman has been costing us games week after week, and can't defend set pieces to save his life. I agree with your observation on Freeman's lack of energy since his return; it has contributed to costing us a lot of games late on.Freeman's best attribute is his interplay around the opposition box which in turn creates overloads and better/easier crossing angles. His final product is actually extremely hit and miss. His aerial crossing is quite poor, and the volume of crosses is not that high either (due to his engine, and relative lack of mobility for a wing back.).
Edit: A good attribute of Freeman that I should've included is his willingness to get in on the back post when the opposition wing back is crossing the ball. It has been sadly lacking this season, arguably due to the aforementioned lack of energy and mobility. It was a big factor in his goal ratio in the promotion season. He was also extremely composed in his finishing, but it's irrelevant if he's never in the box.

The one he "put on a plate for sharp" in the last game was a woefully overhit cross that could've been side footed across the goal. Sharp was forced to take 2 touches to settle a ball and let the defender get back.

I'm not saying Baldock isn't without qualities but technically his game is so far behind the required level for how technically good the players wilder has assembled. His athletic abilities make him very hard to beat and like many fast full backs an injection of speed into a space often vacated of defenders does give us an outlet just his lack of quality on the ball often wastes it.

 

[Luke1993]

What people also fail to recognise is that these two players we 'need to upgrade' on cost us fuckall. They have given way more to our game than many other options in the market that cost cash would have given us.

Jack Robinson cost Forest 1.5m, our 3 full backs cost....feckall and you'd take every one over crazy legs nut megs Jack.

Baldock wasn't free

 

[1066blade]

Pretty sure Baldock gave the ball away for Ipswich’s goal Saturday?

I think our strongest position is CM or RB, let’s not get hasty and give Freeman stick, because going forward he’s one of our best players

Not talking about other games, I was talking about yesterday's game. KF has been garbage for weeks, no ones having a knee jerk reaction to one bad display, the bloke appears to be undergoing a melt down of ability and form, the team and fans shouldn't have to suffer because of this. Bringing George back made total,sense, and should have happened a week or two earlier IMO.

 

[nopigfansintown]

The one he "put on a plate for sharp" in the last game was a woefully overhit cross that could've been side footed across the goal. Sharp was forced to take 2 touches to settle a ball and let the defender get back.

I'm not saying Baldock isn't without qualities but technically his game is so far behind the required level for how technically good the players wilder has assembled. His athletic abilities make him very hard to beat and like many fast full backs an injection of speed into a space often vacated of defenders does give us an outlet just his lack of quality on the ball often wastes it.

Completely disagree; the cross was perfect with enough pace to take the defender out of the game and give Sharp the opportunity to hit the ball first time or take another touch. Sharp seemed to get caught in two minds tome. Any slower and the defender clears it easily. Agree with you on some of his technical qualities in possession, but these can be learned; athletic ability can't be. His technical qualities out of possession are miles ahead of Freeman's, but people sadly don't regard defending as a technical skill anymore. Baldock put on a master class in positional sense and awareness yesterday.

 

[PittsburghBlade]

Completely disagree; the cross was perfect with enough pace to take the defender out of the game and give Sharp the opportunity to hit the ball first time or take another touch. Sharp seemed to get caught in two minds tome. Any slower and the defender clears it easily. Agree with you on some of his technical qualities in possession, but these can be learned; athletic ability can't be. His technical qualities out of possession are miles ahead of Freeman's, but people sadly don't regard defending as a technical skill anymore. Baldock put on a master class in positional sense and awareness yesterday.

You're underestimating how good the level of technical ability you're trying to achieve. you can work on certain things but that area doesn't improve as well as it does in theory.

"A masterclass" now suggests you have to take his young en out your mouth, come on.

And as for the cross, its not "perfect" if your striker WAS clean through on goal and has to take 2 touches because its fired in at knee height.

 

[nopigfansintown]

You're underestimating how good the level of technical ability you're trying to achieve. you can work on certain things but that area doesn't improve as well as it does in theory.

"A masterclass" now suggests you have to take his young en out your mouth, come on.

And as for the cross, its not "perfect" if your striker WAS clean through on goal and has to take 2 touches because its fired in at knee height.

So how many chances did they have down our right side? Even when we were down to ten men. The level of technical ability I'm trying to achieve is that he's good enough to be in our team. So very little is needed this season, given Freeman's shocking performances. There's a lot of examples of terrific athletes gaining technical skills in the game later in their career and then adapting their game; precious few of the opposite.We had a right back at United who was a terrific athlete with limited technical ability who went to play in a World Cup. That brilliant technician Harry Maguire still wouldn't beat him in a foot race.

 

[Gavlar]

Down the wing down the wing Keiron Freeman.

Great player for us over the last few years, I like having 2 decent right fullbacks.

 

[PittsburghBlade]

So how many chances did they have down our right side? Even when we were down to ten men. The level of technical ability I'm trying to achieve is that he's good enough to be in our team. So very little is needed this season, given Freeman's shocking performances. There's a lot of examples of terrific athletes gaining technical skills in the game later in their career and then adapting their game; precious few of the opposite.We had a right back at United who was a terrific athlete with limited technical ability who went to play in a World Cup. That brilliant technician Harry Maguire still wouldn't beat him in a foot race.

Freeman hasn't been "shocking" and was brilliant up to the recent international break which he came back from with what looked like extremely low energy levels.

Walker was a game changer at this level, even in his short 6 game stint initially and his athletic ability and technical ability eclipses that of Baldock by country miles.

And you're neglecting to acknowledge the fact that i've said he can do a job at this level nowhere have I said he can't. He is a solid backup but if we're wanting to improve the team as a whole and move forward he is the clear first to go across the pitch.

 

[nopigfansintown]

Freeman hasn't been "shocking" and was brilliant up to the recent international break which he came back from with what looked like extremely low energy levels.

Walker was a game changer at this level, even in his short 6 game stint initially and his athletic ability and technical ability eclipses that of Baldock by country miles.

We'll have to agree to disagree on his form this season. I think he's been poor by his own high standards. He had a bright start, admittedly, but I wanted him out of the side eight or nine games before he was dropped. Even if it was just to take him out, then put him back in after a break. Walker is on record saying his athletic ability dwarfs his technical ability. His passing, crossing and interplay were always problems for him, but he's probably the best athlete in the history of the game so he has been able to compensate. Let's see how he does as he goes past his prime.Pep's certainly interested : https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...-kyle-walker-news-pep-guardiola-a8113481.html
That comparison wasn't me saying Baldock - or indeed Freeman - is a comparable quality of player to Walker by the way; the comparison was between athleticism vis a vis technical ability. Maguire has the superior technical ability, Walker the athleticism. Freeman the technical superiority (certainly on the ball); Baldock the athleticism.

 

[andy m]

So how many chances did they have down our right side? Even when we were down to ten men. The level of technical ability I'm trying to achieve is that he's good enough to be in our team. So very little is needed this season, given Freeman's shocking performances. There's a lot of examples of terrific athletes gaining technical skills in the game later in their career and then adapting their game; precious few of the opposite.We had a right back at United who was a terrific athlete with limited technical ability who went to play in a World Cup. That brilliant technician Harry Maguire still wouldn't beat him in a foot race.

Kyle Walker is technically outstanding. He isn't one of the best fullbacks in the world cos he's reyt quick.

 

[nopigfansintown]

Kyle Walker is technically outstanding. He isn't one of the best fullbacks in the world cos he's reyt quick.

Nobody said he doesn't have technical ability; I wouldn't say he was outsanding in that department though. I would say his athleticism is still his best attribute. He recognises this himself, and has gone on public record saying he must adapt. The players that have outstanding physical qualities and then adapt their games to play at the highest level when that diminishes are extremely rare: Giggs, Maldini, Cristiano Ronaldo.Walker's got to prove that.If you're right his technical qualities will allow him to adapt his game to stay at the top until his mid 30s, if your wrong his loss of mobility will see him slide. He's the best athlete I've ever seen live in any sport.

 

[andy m]

Nobody said he doesn't have technical ability; I wouldn't say he was outsanding in that department though. I would say his athleticism is still his best attribute. He recognises this himself, and has gone on public record saying he must adapt. The players that have outstanding physical qualities and then adapt their games to play at the highest level when that diminishes are extremely rare: Giggs, Maldini, Cristiano Ronaldo.Walker's got to prove that.If you're right his technical qualities will allow him to adapt his game to stay at the top until his mid 30s, if your wrong his loss of mobility will see him slide. He's the best athlete I've ever seen live in any sport.

He has a great first touch and is also a very good passer and crosser of the ball. Giggs, Maldini and Ronaldo is setting the bar a bit high though.

 

[Redflame]

FFS !!!!! We soon forget dont we UTB

 

[nopigfansintown]

He has a great first touch and is also a very good passer and crosser of the ball. Giggs, Maldini and Ronaldo is setting the bar a bit high though.

I agree on the first touch. His passing is good but often square and unimaginative. He doesn't really open teams up with brilliant passes, but he doesn't give the ball away much either. He's obviously a world class player, so you'd have to look at the other world class right backs/right wing backs. He could even adapt and play centre half. If he has the technical quality, he should be able to just move inside and change position to a less physically demanding role. The best technicians can. He did it for England and did ok at the World Cup.There's Lahm, Dani Alves, Cafu, Marcelo etc who all played/ are playing at an old age, and have adapted their games accordingly.This is a quote from him:

On Guardiola: "I think he's made me a more intelligent player, I feel. I think he's taught me how to read the game, when to go forward, when to come inside, and made me think about the game a little bit more, whereas at Tottenham I was basically a winger, my job was to control the right flank and get up and down".

Guardiola on Walker having to adapt to his increasing loss of physicality: https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...-kyle-walker-news-pep-guardiola-a8113481.html

 

[andy m]

I understand what you are saying but you are comparing him to some of the greatest players of all time. i said his technical ability is outstanding. He would be a very good full back at premier league level even if he wasn't so quick. His weakness was always his reading of the game ( and it wasn't much of a weakness)

 

[Sabella's Socks]

On the bench.