Sky last post coverage

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Paulus

Paulus

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https://www.sheffieldtelegraph.co.u...esday-fans-in-a-disrespectful-light-1-9440913

Being at the match I hadn't realised this happened, regrettable but technical cock ups occur - More upsetting to me though was that the crowd started applauding after the bugler fell silent a point totally omitted from the report in the Sheffield Telegraph. To me it is hugely regrettable that the recent custom of a minutes applause has clouded the simple dignity of a minutes silence, it may be appropriate to remember a single life passing by applause but it is not and never will be appropriate for a formal remembrance day ceremony. Some serious education required.
 



After the Last Post Sinclair should have said there will now be a minutes silence nothing wrong with applauding the bugler. There would have also been people entering the stadium during all of this who wouldnt have known what was going off
Im also sure at one of the televised matches on Sunday the crowd applauded the bugler
 
SKY SPORTS BREAKING NEWS

CHED EVANS ATE MY HAMSTER !

Total silence at the lane on Friday, the applause was not disrespectful just mis-timed. Fecking disgusting from sky.
 
I wish to sincerely apologise to all my fellow Blades for not being respectful enough at games in the 1960s & 1970s. I'm saddened to say all I did was go to the game, watch the players line up around the centre circle, hear the referee's whistle, remain silent, hear the referee's whistle again & then talk. I didn't realise there were all these rules, listen to this bit, clap at this bit, be silent at this bit, clap again, hold this aloft, bid for this on eBay. This Remembrance Choreography has got to stop.... Please.... We're a lovely, simple, multi-cultural country full of essentially nice people. Let's get back to common sense. A straightforward one or two minutes silence. Which doesn't require a list of dos & dont's.
But I unreservedly apologise for my 1960s & 70s self. You know, when I was at games with people who could actually remember WWI
 
I don’t recall this being an issue at previous pre-kickoff Remembrance tributes at the Lane – far from it. We’ve had buglers before and they haven’t needed a ref’s whistle. I saw plenty of other clubs over the weekend do exactly the same and didn’t see a single instance of applause as the minute’s silence began.

Essentially, we had those serving in the armed forces standing motionless in heavy rain for about 10 minutes in the run-up to this, and yet a chunk of the crowd either can’t follow basic instructions (which, lets be honest, were a simple reminder to people about what usually happens when the Last Post is played, not new information to anyone that’s seen this before) or weren’t in a state to.
 
Yellarbellyblade said:
What’s wrong with the refs whistle starting it?
The last post is very moving but it confuses matters. People understand the minutes silence on the refs whistle
Click to expand...

They did it differently in the Manchester Derby, the last post signified the end and was greeted with lots of crowd noise.

Personally i thought that the applause after the last post was quite respectful, most people quickly realised that the minute silence followed and it was hushed, but the applause was spontaneous.
 
Yellarbellyblade said:
What’s wrong with the refs whistle starting it?
The last post is very moving but it confuses matters. People understand the minutes silence on the refs whistle
Click to expand...
Yellarbellyblade I'm comfortable answering that. The Whistle--Silence-Whistle approach is no longer considered good enough. Because, Remembrance is in danger of becoming a race, a contest, bigger, longer, more. That is roughly what is going on. If a Football Club does not put Poppies on everything, sell everything off for Charity & have a frankly bewildering array of people involved, they are "not seen as doing it properly", and they fear they will be criticised because "Leeds did more".
That is essentially what this Sky must apologise & grovel shit is about - oooohhhh we don't want people thinking Sheffield aren't Remembrancing enough & better.
Something that was conceived as a simple, all encompassing, non discriminatory silent tribute is in danger of becoming a Circus. This Club should reclaim the ground. Only the Players & Ref/lino on the pitch, no mascots, no sponsors, no flags & I'll say it, no service personnel. Minimal is more respectful. We shouldn't keep going in this "contest"
 
I was on the kop - row SS and as usual I couldn't hear the wording of the tannoy announcements clearly. The crowd noise at times is just too loud to be able to hear clearly and of course it's particularly bad at the begining of a half or when the match is exciting. If there was a real emergency and the crowd was noisy then I for one would not be able to hear / understand clearly what's being said - unless the crowd suddenly went quiet which would be unlikely in the cirumstances.

The club ought to do a test by asking each steward (or perhaps steward supervisor) to report what was said in a series of test messages (at appropriate noisy times) and then report back and thus find the how effective the tannoy really is. Do others have this problem? Or is it time for me to get a hearing test? :-(
 



BerksBlade said:
I don't understand why Sky felt the need to have fake crowd noise ready in the first place? Isn't the atmosphere of a Sheffield derby good enough for them?
Click to expand...
It’s a standard thing to have at ANY match to mask out the swearing
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
Yellarbellyblade I'm comfortable answering that. The Whistle--Silence-Whistle approach is no longer considered good enough. Because, Remembrance is in danger of becoming a race, a contest, bigger, longer, more. That is roughly what is going on. If a Football Club does not put Poppies on everything, sell everything off for Charity & have a frankly bewildering array of people involved, they are "not seen as doing it properly", and they fear they will be criticised because "Leeds did more".
That is essentially what this Sky must apologise & grovel shit is about - oooohhhh we don't want people thinking Sheffield aren't Remembrancing enough & better.
Something that was conceived as a simple, all encompassing, non discriminatory silent tribute is in danger of becoming a Circus. This Club should reclaim the ground. Only the Players & Ref/lino on the pitch, no mascots, no sponsors, no flags & I'll say it, no service personnel. Minimal is more respectful. We shouldn't keep going in this "contest"
Click to expand...
Agree in part with what you say although I can confirm that people around the world were quite upset about it as I got quite a few messages asking me what was going on from Australia and NZ so it does show us in a poor light
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
I'm comfortable answering that. The Whistle--Silence-Whistle approach is no longer considered good enough. Because, Remembrance is in danger of becoming a race, a contest, bigger, longer, more. That is roughly what is going on. If a Football Club does not put Poppies on everything, sell everything off for Charity & have a frankly bewildering array of people involved, they are "not seen as doing it properly", and they fear they will be criticised because "Leeds did more".
That is essentially what this Sky must apologise & grovel shit is about - oooohhhh we don't want people thinking Sheffield aren't Remembrancing enough & better.
Something that was conceived as a simple, all encompassing, non discriminatory silent tribute is in danger of becoming a Circus. This Club should reclaim the ground. Only the Players & Ref/lino on the pitch, no mascots, no sponsors, no flags & I'll say it, no service personnel. Minimal is more respectful. We shouldn't keep going in this "contest"
Click to expand...

It's like when every presenter and guest on the news/ sports panels etc all have big plush poppies.

How many of them bought their own in a gesture of thanks and rememberance? I'd hazard loads turn up without one and the TV channels have boxes full that they junior runners have to pin on.

Everyone in the studio can then be seen to 'do the right thing' even if they don't give a shit.

I think James McClean is an absolute wanker but at least he has a reason for not wearing one. He is wrong of course, as tens of thousands of Irishmen also dies in WW1, but he is at least following his own mind. After all, freedom and liberty is what we were told people fought for.
 
I should coco said:
It's like when every presenter and guest on the news/ sports panels etc all have big plush poppies.

How many of them bought their own in a gesture of thanks and rememberance? I'd hazard loads turn up without one and the TV channels have boxes full that they junior runners have to pin on.

Everyone in the studio can then be seen to 'do the right thing' even if they don't give a shit.

I think James McClean is an absolute wanker but at least he has a reason for not wearing one. He is wrong of course, as tens of thousands of Irishmen also dies in WW1, but he is at least following his own mind. After all, freedom and liberty is what we were told people fought for.
Click to expand...
I thought it was a bit over the top this year until I realised it was the 100 year anniversary. So I revised my opinion.
 
I should coco said:
It's like when every presenter and guest on the news/ sports panels etc all have big plush poppies.

How many of them bought their own in a gesture of thanks and rememberance? I'd hazard loads turn up without one and the TV channels have boxes full that they junior runners have to pin on.

Everyone in the studio can then be seen to 'do the right thing' even if they don't give a shit.

I think James McClean is an absolute wanker but at least he has a reason for not wearing one. He is wrong of course, as tens of thousands of Irishmen also dies in WW1, but he is at least following his own mind. After all, freedom and liberty is what we were told people fought for.
Click to expand...
The Soldiers of WWI were not fighting for freedom & liberty. We were not under attack. No country was trying to invade GB. Most of the regular soldiers from GB didn't have the vote. They were not free, and didn't have liberty in their own country.
WWII - different story.
But, the 100 years ago war was deffo not our Soldiers fighting for freedom & liberty. Brave men & women all. Deserve our thanks & remembrance. No doubt. The Slaughtered, not The Fallen.
The Royal British Legion are very very clear on people who don't wear Poppies, they have no problem at all....
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
The Soldiers of WWI were not fighting for freedom & liberty.
Click to expand...

Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
We were not under attack
Click to expand...

Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
No country was trying to invade GB.
Click to expand...

The Germans had made it clear that they wanted to attack France through Belgium. As well as fighting for 'plucky little Belgium' the Germans were building a navy to rival ours and take control of the seas.

Maybe it was not the freedom and liberty of the Briitish Isles that was immediately at stake, but the Kaiser and Bismarck had clearly stated their expansionist plans. If war had not come in 1914, it would have come soon after. To pretend otherwise is to stick a proverbial head in the sand.

Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
Most of the regular soldiers from GB didn't have the vote.
Click to expand...

The representation of the people act 1884 brough the voting population (male only) to nearly 6 million. I do not know what proportion of the solideiers had the vote but you may be right and it could be less than 50%.

Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
They were not free, and didn't have liberty in their own country.
Click to expand...

They had freedom of association and speech and many had the vote. I'm not quite sure what you are getting at here.
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
The Soldiers of WWI were not fighting for freedom & liberty. We were not under attack. No country was trying to invade GB. Most of the regular soldiers from GB didn't have the vote. They were not free, and didn't have liberty in their own country.
WWII - different story.
But, the 100 years ago war was deffo not our Soldiers fighting for freedom & liberty. Brave men & women all. Deserve our thanks & remembrance. No doubt. The Slaughtered, not The Fallen.
The Royal British Legion are very very clear on people who don't wear Poppies, they have no problem at all....
Click to expand...

i think you need to be careful applying modern sensibilities on things that happened 100 years ago. The fact is that until later in the war the vast majority of those fighting were volunteers and joined up to fight for their country of their own free will. Their ideas of patriotism and ours might well be different but to imply they were all herded into the slaughter against their will is wrong. Yes it may be true that they didn’t know what they were getting themselves into and certainly the war had a profound impact on how the ordinary man or woman in the street viewed their relationship with the country they lived in but that doesn’t change the fact that in the first few years of the war this wasn’t the case.
As I said before WW1 is much more nuanced in terms of right and wrong than the later war but this country was a slightly reluctant participant in a war essentially to prevent German hegemony of Western Europe. Whether that was the right thing to do was debatable I guess but nonetheless was felt to be right at the time.
As a socialist you should actually celebrate the impact of this war. It was the true birth place of a strong socialism in the UK after the passing of the representation of the people act in 1918 and the start of a softening of the class system. It was also the catalyst for improved women’s rights and suffrage.
As an aside I wear a poppy but 100% support those who choose not to afterall isn’t that right to choose what it was all about anyway? I do agree that there is a slightly aggressive group of people that have a go at people who don’t wear one but there is also a group out that there that attack people who do calling them warmongers etc which in my opinion shows a complete misunderstanding of what the wearing of a poppy is supposed to be about. The poppy was the only thing that grew in the battlefields of that war and was seen as a sign of hope for a better future. It is not a celebration of war more a symbol of hope that we can try to avoid it in the future. As the father of a son who is soon to be a serviceman no one hopes for the avoidance of war more than me.
 
Paulus said:
https://www.sheffieldtelegraph.co.u...esday-fans-in-a-disrespectful-light-1-9440913

Being at the match I hadn't realised this happened, regrettable but technical cock ups occur - More upsetting to me though was that the crowd started applauding after the bugler fell silent a point totally omitted from the report in the Sheffield Telegraph. To me it is hugely regrettable that the recent custom of a minutes applause has clouded the simple dignity of a minutes silence, it may be appropriate to remember a single life passing by applause but it is not and never will be appropriate for a formal remembrance day ceremony. Some serious education required.
Click to expand...

100% agree with this. It’s 100 year anniversary this time round. I’m not sure if by just time elapsed we have forgotten how to do things in the correct manner.
 
LoughboroBlade said:
I don’t recall this being an issue at previous pre-kickoff Remembrance tributes at the Lane – far from it. We’ve had buglers before and they haven’t needed a ref’s whistle. I saw plenty of other clubs over the weekend do exactly the same and didn’t see a single instance of applause as the minute’s silence began.

Essentially, we had those serving in the armed forces standing motionless in heavy rain for about 10 minutes in the run-up to this, and yet a chunk of the crowd either can’t follow basic instructions (which, lets be honest, were a simple reminder to people about what usually happens when the Last Post is played, not new information to anyone that’s seen this before) or weren’t in a state to.
Click to expand...
Most defo the latter
 
Paulus said:
https://www.sheffieldtelegraph.co.u...esday-fans-in-a-disrespectful-light-1-9440913

Being at the match I hadn't realised this happened, regrettable but technical cock ups occur - More upsetting to me though was that the crowd started applauding after the bugler fell silent a point totally omitted from the report in the Sheffield Telegraph. To me it is hugely regrettable that the recent custom of a minutes applause has clouded the simple dignity of a minutes silence, it may be appropriate to remember a single life passing by applause but it is not and never will be appropriate for a formal remembrance day ceremony. Some serious education required.
Click to expand...

I think it is regrettable that we have these minute’s applause at all. It was only brought in because some idiots can’t keep quiet for a minute.

I also think, with the greatest of respect, that it’s sufficient to mention obituaries of fans, for example, at half time. Maybe put a nice commemorative message or something up on the screen. But to keep interrupting the match with applause in the whatever minute of the game, for someone who 99% of us have never heard of, I’m sorry, it’s just not necessary or appropriate.

If someone has held a prominent role and made a significant contribution to the club, then fine. But otherwise, pay them their respects at half-time.

I’d expect nothing more for me or mine.
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
Yellarbellyblade I'm comfortable answering that. The Whistle--Silence-Whistle approach is no longer considered good enough. Because, Remembrance is in danger of becoming a race, a contest, bigger, longer, more. That is roughly what is going on. If a Football Club does not put Poppies on everything, sell everything off for Charity & have a frankly bewildering array of people involved, they are "not seen as doing it properly", and they fear they will be criticised because "Leeds did more".
That is essentially what this Sky must apologise & grovel shit is about - oooohhhh we don't want people thinking Sheffield aren't Remembrancing enough & better.
Something that was conceived as a simple, all encompassing, non discriminatory silent tribute is in danger of becoming a Circus. This Club should reclaim the ground. Only the Players & Ref/lino on the pitch, no mascots, no sponsors, no flags & I'll say it, no service personnel. Minimal is more respectful. We shouldn't keep going in this "contest"
Click to expand...

I agree with your general wish for a simpler rememberance and have already said so on a different thread about it. But, you are mixing up two different things. This thread, the Telegraph article and the reason Sky should apologise, is nothing to do with people clapping at the wrong moment.
If you were at the match you won't have known anything about it. Sky drowned out the bugler with taped crowd noise. Viewers thought all or most of the fans were chanting over him. (Unfortunately, at no point during the bugling, did Sky cut to a shot of the crowd stood in silence. One could develop a conspiracy theory......)
 
Paulus said:
https://www.sheffieldtelegraph.co.u...esday-fans-in-a-disrespectful-light-1-9440913

Being at the match I hadn't realised this happened, regrettable but technical cock ups occur - More upsetting to me though was that the crowd started applauding after the bugler fell silent a point totally omitted from the report in the Sheffield Telegraph. To me it is hugely regrettable that the recent custom of a minutes applause has clouded the simple dignity of a minutes silence, it may be appropriate to remember a single life passing by applause but it is not and never will be appropriate for a formal remembrance day ceremony. Some serious education required.
Click to expand...

Good article Danny04

(but surely, at the risk of sounding, er..... well anyway, thousands of eye-witnesses, surely, not hundreds.)
 
Yellarbellyblade said:
i think you need to be careful applying modern sensibilities on things that happened 100 years ago.
Click to expand...
Yellarbellyblade I should coco Hamburg Blade Thanks. Great additions to what is not an easy subject.
Yellarbellyblade - your quote - that is one of the reasons I worry about "they died so that we might be free" - or similar sentiments. Fighting for King & Country in 1914 does not always work with modern 2018 sensibilities. I don't want any of my posts to be seen as disrespectful. We owe those who died in WWI a great debt. I am proud to Remember them. But, I also feel the whole process benefits from information & honesty & debate.
 



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