Neil Warnocks selective memory/talking out of his arse

[snootyfenooty]

The season before he was appointed we averaged over 16000. The following season 13000+. Until the PL season of 30000+ the only doubling was 1999/2000, when he was appointed in December 1999. We never averaged more than 23000+ in the championship. The "doubling gates" is another Warnock fallacy.

16k when he came and 30k when left (your figures) would appear to suggest exactly the opposite of what you are trying to say.

 

[BushBlade]

He is also the reason why we still exist.

No he isn’t. We are. Owners come and go and they’ll always be someone prepared to take over a club our size.

 

[Chali 2na]

The season before he was appointed we averaged over 16000. The following season 13000+. Until the PL season of 30000+ the only doubling was 1999/2000, when he was appointed in December 1999. We never averaged more than 23000+ in the championship. The "doubling gates" is another Warnock fallacy.

I'm fairness, I didn't agree that Warnock doubled the attendance, I just said increased.
I suppose it's skewed by his final season being in the PL.

 

[Sean Thornton]

16k when he came and 30k when left (your figures) would appear to suggest exactly the opposite of what you are trying to say.

Did you miss the fact that the last season was in the PL, where we hadn't been for years? Any manager would have seen gates at that kevel. In fact if we'd not had that dick in charge that season, demand would have been even higher. That's really straw clutching.
16000 for a poor side turned into at best 23000 for a promotion winning one. That's never double. (16000 to 30000 isn't either)

 

[Sean Thornton]

I'm fairness, I didn't agree that Warnock doubled the attendance, I just said increased.
I suppose it's skewed by his final season being in the PL.

Exactly. 21+ and 23+ were the two highest prior to that. That's not even a 50% increase on the season before he took over. Mind you, if Neil says it.......

 

[Pinchy]

I still think we'd have bounced straight back up if Warnock would've stayed another year but what followed was a decade of decline (bar Blackwell's PO final season).

He ought to have stayed one year fewer. He relegated us, not Tevez.

Kevin McCabe has since regretted giving him the Premiership season. He should not have done so. Him, he was out of his depth, him.

 

[Chali 2na]

I don't recall answering one of your posts with a pure insult, if I've chucked a jibe in with it, it's been part of the process of continuing the dialogue. Anything directed back at me is water off a ducks back and if a bit of humour is built in to it then I also see the funny side of it too. I quite enjoy your posts by the way.

I was talking generally, I wasn't trying to say that you answered my posts with a 'pure insult'. I was essentially trying to say that I won't insult someone until they insult me first.

And I quite enjoy your posts too mate, part of the reason I'm glad we're no longer arguing

 

[Pinchy]

Warnock gets loads of stick for the Villa game. But I think we’d have lost that no matter what. They were miles better than us, even if tactics and selection could have been better.

Whilst I’m very grateful for his achievements, my gripe is that our methods were too often those of a perpetual and limited underdog. In a game like Wigan where we needed to take the initiative we simply didn’t know how to.

At some point a team needs to evolve into something more sophisticated, but his teams don’t appear to do so.

We would, but perhaps not by three goals. The scoreline did a great deal of damage.

 

[snootyfenooty]

Did you miss the fact that the last season was in the PL, where we hadn't been for years? Any manager would have seen gates at that kevel. In fact if we'd not had that dick in charge that season, demand would have been even higher. That's really straw clutching.
16000 for a poor side turned into at best 23000 for a promotion winning one. That's never double. (16000 to 30000 isn't either)

Don't know where you are getting your figures from Sean but United's average 1999/2000 was 13718. The promotion season was 23650. The Prem season was 30512. Not done your homework properly, take 100 lines and sit at the back of the class.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Don't know where you are getting your figures from Sean but United's average 1999/2000 was 13718. The promotion season was 23650. The Prem season was 30512. Not done your homework properly, take 100 lines and sit at the back of the class.

My figures are correct save I've not gone to the hundreds and below. See post 85 and take the next desk next to me. The year BEFORE he arrived we averaged over 16000. Twice that is 32000. In the championship we never bettered 24000.

The "dying club" had a 16000 average the season before he arrived on his winged golden tractor. He didn't double that.

 

[snootyfenooty]

My figures are correct save I've not gone to the hundreds and below. See post 85 and take the next desk next to me. The year BEFORE he arrived we averaged over 16000. Twice that is 32000. In the championship we never bettered 24000.

The "dying club" had a 16000 average the season before he arrived on his winged golden tractor. He didn't double that.

Go on then, how do you use an attendance for comparison when he wasn't there. The season he took over the average attendance was 13718 and heading south, as was the club. This is the benchmark, not some random figure which suits your calculations. You need to stop reading Porktalk, it's having a worrying influence on your use of numbers.

 

[Worksop II]

I suppose it's skewed by his final season being in the PL.

His final Season usually is ........

There is a compliment in there somewhere .....

 

[Sean Thornton]

Go on then, how do you use an attendance for comparison when he wasn't there. The season he took over the average attendance was 13718 and heading south, as was the club. This is the benchmark, not some random figure which suits your calculations. You need to stop reading Porktalk, it's having a worrying influence on your use of numbers.

Eh? The season he took over the gate was 13718? So he doubled it from a season when he helped drop it by just under 3000? Lol. So the claim he doubled it is taken from the starting point of him reducing it in the first place? Brilliant.

Plus he had the benefit of 22k and 23k against Barnsley and Man City in there.

It's like his "no youth policy" claims. When he arrived Quinn and Morris were there. Curtis Woidhouse, BennDoane and Jags made his debut that season. Where did they come from, jumpers for goalposts in Norfolk Park?

 

[Sean Thornton]

Go on then, how do you use an attendance for comparison when he wasn't there. The season he took over the average attendance was 13718 and heading south, as was the club. This is the benchmark, not some random figure which suits your calculations. You need to stop reading Porktalk, it's having a worrying influence on your use of numbers.

So he doubled attendances - only if you include a PL season which any other idiot would have achieved - but only after helping drive away 3000 fans. Anyone sensible would use the season before as the benchmark, i.e. A comparison to what happened before he arrived to what he achieved afterwards but blind faith in the bullshitter won't let you accept it.

Which random figure btw?

 

[snootyfenooty]

So he doubled attendances - only if you include a PL season which any other idiot would have achieved

Yeah, the idiot who achieved it was Warnock.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Yeah, the idiot who achieved it was Warnock.

Yes. And then?

Oh, didn't he let Kevin Davies go?

Random figure?

 

[oldblade]

Recall our terrific victory over Arsenal at the Lane that season with Jags heroics. Pity they were the only points we got against any of the top sides home or away. And please don't remind me how we set up away from home that season.

I must have imagined the home draw against Liverpool (3rd), the home win against Spurs(5th) and the home draw against Everton(6th), which should have been a win but for Kenny's inexplicable moment of madness!

 

[BushBlade]

Second best manager since I’ve been watching the Blades. Couldn’t keep us up (with one of the lowest wage bills in the division) but left us with enough money to bounce back again. He’s a gobshite, but I won’t criticise him for that, I’d be a hypocrite.

I get the impression the character assassination is some attempt to justify the shabby treatment by KM in not extending his contract when we went up because he had the temerity to talk to another club.

 

[BushBlade]

Yes. And then?

Oh, didn't he let Kevin Davies go?

Random figure?

Davies? Was he holding him hostage or something?

 

[Sean Thornton]

Davies? Was he holding him hostage or something?

For red diesel.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Second best manager since I’ve been watching the Blades. Couldn’t keep us up (with one of the lowest wage bills in the division) but left us with enough money to bounce back again. He’s a gobshite, but I won’t criticise him for that, I’d be a hypocrite.

I get the impression the character assassination is some attempt to justify the shabby treatment by KM in not extending his contract when we went up because he had the temerity to talk to another club.

What the ..... He didn't leave us with money !!! McCabe (and West Ham) funded it.

And we err, didn't bounce back......

Temerity? Rewrite of history. Told McCabe he'd been offered the Pompey job. Mandaric flatly denied it. Almost the final nail in his coffin.

Anyway, no agreement will be reached and there's a far better discussion going on about Villa on another thread/parallel universe.

 

[JJ Sefton]

Best managers in my 30 years...

1 - Bassett
2 - Warnock
3 - Wilder

 

[oldblade]

The season before he was appointed we averaged over 16000. The following season 13000+. Until the PL season of 30000+ the only doubling was 1999/2000, when he was appointed in December 1999. We never averaged more than 23000+ in the championship. The "doubling gates" is another Warnock fallacy.

Warnock didn't take over until 2 December 1999 - 2 days before our home match against Portsmouth.

We had already played 10 home matches and our average attendance for those 10 matches was 12,580.

The lowest average attendance that we had for any complete season in which Warnock was our manager was 17,211. That was in the 2000-1 season, his first complete season in charge. There followed a pretty much year on year increase in our attendances to above 20,000 (with the exception of 2004-5 - 19,594)

Our last championship season under him saw us average 23,650. That is an 89.9% increase on the attendances we had been getting in the period immediately before he came.

It is not a doubling of the attendances, but it's not far off.

 

[Chali 2na]

I get the impression the character assassination is some attempt to justify the shabby treatment by KM in not extending his contract when we went up because he had the temerity to talk to another club.

Speaking for myself, any criticism of Warnock is down the missed oppurtunity in the PL: a better January transfer window or braver selections/tactics on the road would have been enough to save us, and I think he was capable of both.

I will qualify that with the fact that, like with you, he's the second best manager I've seen since I've been watching too.
(Though I'm sure standards could have been better: I'd struggle to name a club who's picked a worse succession of managers than we did after Warnock.)

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

Warnock didn't take over until 2 December 1999 - 2 days before our home match against Portsmouth.

We had already played 10 home matches and our average attendance for those 10 matches was 12,580.

The lowest average attendance that we had for any complete season in which Warnock was our manager was 17,211. That was in the 2000-1 season, his first complete season in charge. There followed a pretty much year on year increase in our attendances to above 20,000 (with the exception of 2004-5 - 19,594)

Our last championship season under him saw us average 23,650. That is an 89.9% increase on the attendances we had been getting in the period immediately before he came.

It is not a doubling of the attendances, but it's not far off.

Always nice to see someone getting bummed by cold, hard, irrefutable facts.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Warnock didn't take over until 2 December 1999 - 2 days before our home match against Portsmouth.

We had already played 10 home matches and our average attendance for those 10 matches was 12,580.

The lowest average attendance that we had for any complete season in which Warnock was our manager was 17,21. That was in the 2000-1 season, his first complete season in charge. There followed a pretty much year on year increase in our attendances to above 20,000 (with the exception of 2004-5 - 19,594)

Our last championship season under him saw us average 23,650. That is an 89.9% increase on the attendances we had been getting in the period immediately before he came.

It is not a doubling of the attendances, but it's not far off.

League attendances, which is what's being discussed only hit over 20000 twice.

All +

17
18
18
21
19
23

So no, he didn't double attendances. Which is what I said.

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

So no, he didn't double attendances. Which is what I said.

Did you not read any of oldblade's post?

 

[Sean Thornton]

Always nice to see someone getting bummed by cold, hard, irrefutable facts.

What, you mean that he didn't double attendances? Which is what I've claimed.

How's the Villa thread going? Nipped on here for some respite from fuckwittery?

 

[Sean Thornton]

Did you not read any of oldblade's post?

Yes. He agreed attendances weren't doubled. Didn't you see that?

 

[Bill puntin]

Warnock was a nobody before he came to the lane then he got all full of himself because at last he had landing a big gigg . That's why all the other managers can't stand his arrogance.