An experiment failed?...now onto QPR

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Stretch

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Ok so we can all agree that the Swansea performance was largely awful but that first half tonight took the biscuit. As bad a 45 minutes and defensive display I have seen since Clough's second season, possibly longer.

Wilder I am sure won't go with that starting line up again, he can't surely?! The midfield is anonymous and neither shields the defence, controls the tempo, nor creates anything for the strikers. However overall the team looked worryingly flat and disinterested. Whether players have had heads turned, or the [alleged] pre season bust ups were more serious than many thought remains to be seen. What got me the most was how easy heads seemed to drop at 0-2, not at all characteristic of a Wilder team and despite a few positive performances from the first half [McG, Baldock and Henderson - it could easily have been 4] , had the game ended at 45 minutes I would have been much more worried than I feel at this minute.

A few players to highlight:

Egan - needs to get his head in the game, and quick. I didn't think the whole 'record signing' razzmatazz was a great idea at the time, as it just heaps pressure. But at the end of the day he is an experienced player who Chris brought in to fix a problem. On first impressions he is making it worse. He needs to understand that a lot is resting on him this season.
What I would just add is that Stearman got off to a shaky start and then became as solid a performer as we have had in recent years. If things don't improve soon for Egan then Stears must come back in surely.

Stevens - poor as usual, misplaced passes, out of position and our left flank looked exposed yet again. I would love to see Lafferty or Bryan have a go and give Enda a little break.

Lundstram and Evans - sorry to lump them together but I am afraid they are not effective as a midfield duo. Neither seem to move the game forward and their tackling is clumsy at best. Lundstram looks unfit and Evans is too easily knocked off the ball.

Clarke - has been getting dog abuse all night and that may be partly deserved as he looks well off the pace at the moment. Remember though Blades he does score in streaks and I expect a few goals from him yet this season, but I think a little spell on the bench wouldn't harm him. Chris however seems to like him in the starting 11.

The second half, at least gave me some cause for optimism.

Woodburn is a lively little player, with some great touches and movement. Find a system and attacking partner or pair around him and we could be in for a treat with this lad.

As soon as Duffy came on the game came alive for us. Ok Boro were happy to sit back, but they tend to do that whenever they are in the lead under Pulis. Fleck looks a different player with Duffy on the field. The understanding that 2 of them forged [along with Coutts] cannot be underestimated. Our game instantly shifted 20-30 yards up the field as we pinned their team in. We looked like the team that used to start each game on the attack in previous seasons. I have said many times that whilst Fleck is our best player, Duffy and Coutts are the two most influential players, as they bring the best out of everyone else. Duffy is the anchor point around the opponent's 18 yard box and final 3rd that the whole team revolves around. Take him out and we look flat, every single time.

Leonard looked good, albeit in a short cameo. He had the energy and bite that neither Lunny or Evans seem to possess at the moment. I would consider giving him a start.


Assuming Chris has learnt from the last 2 games I seriously hope he plays to our strengths against QPR. Here is how I would like to see us line up, on the attack. I am assuming / hoping we get one more AM in and hopefully a striker. In any case a couple will miss the squad entirely.



...........................................................................Henderson................................................................................

.........................................Bash..............................Egan...................................JOC...........................................

...Baldock.............................................................................................................................................Lafferty....
.......................................................Leonard...............................Fleck.................................................................
...............................Woodburn....................................................................Duffy.................................................
........................................................................McGoldrick...................................................................................

Alternatively stick Duffy in the no.10 role and push Woodburn up as the second striker.

Subs:
Moore
Freeman
Stearman
Bryan/Stevens
Evans/Lunny
New AM or New Striker
Sharp/Clarke
 
Last edited:



They weren’t alleged pal. They happened.

Fair enough mate, I know you have given me a few details on here before. I suppose what I am trying to probe is how serious they were, i.e drunken stupidity/ fisticuffs that were laughed off the next day or symptomatic of some deeper rift in the squad. You saw some of it, as did others but does anyone know how it all resolved itself, if at all?

Anyway, what does thy think of my lineup for QPR? ;)
 
Fair enough mate, I know you have given me a few details on here before. I suppose what I am trying to probe is how serious they were, i.e drunken stupidity/ fisticuffs that were laughed off the next day or symptomatic of some deeper rift in the squad. You saw some of it, as did others but does anyone know how it all resolved itself, if at all?

Anyway, what does thy think of my lineup for QPR? ;)
I agree with the lineup wholeheartedly.
 
Listen, QPR are an unbelievable club, they have a fantastic squad of players, in fact it's hard to describe just how good their squad is. Steve McClaren is a wonderful man and an incredible manager, perhaps the best of his generation, and his experience internationally and abroad is something to behold. I've just got immeasurable respect and admiration for Steve, the club and the squad they've got.

It's going to be very hard for us, but one thing's for sure, we'll respect the hell out of them and we'll be going with the best line up for this opposition, and that is unquestionable. This line up is:

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - Henderson
- - - - - - - Basham - - Egan - - O'Connell
Baldock Leonard Evans Lundstram Fleck Stevens

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Clarke
 
Just a thought.......
He may play Bash as a defensive midfielder and put Stearman back in the side? I got the feeling he moved him forward to bail out the hapless midfield two
 
Just a thought.......
He may play Bash as a defensive midfielder and put Stearman back in the side? I got the feeling he moved him forward to bail out the hapless midfield two
Yep, I was thinking the same for Saturday, not that I would necessarily do that but I think he will. He has a dilemma though, tighten us up, or try to, or address the issue of us creating / finishing nothing.
 
I read up to Swansea was an awful performance and stopped reading.

I said largely awful, which it was. A few decent bits of play but nothing like as good as we can be.
 
Simply swapping Lundstram for Duffy alone would solve many of our issues. We need to adopt the same mentality as last season where we attacked teams. What’s changed? Where has the fear come from? Our squad is better than last year, and yet we’ve seemingly abandoned our attacking mentality.

If there are concerns about Duffy being able to start games then Wilder has to address it and go out and get a quality CAM. Luke Freeman springs to mind...
 
Simply swapping Lundstram for Duffy alone would solve many of our issues. We need to adopt the same mentality as last season where we attacked teams. What’s changed? Where has the fear come from? Our squad is better than last year, and yet we’ve seemingly abandoned our attacking mentality.

If there are concerns about Duffy being able to start games then Wilder has to address it and go out and get a quality CAM. Luke Freeman springs to mind...

I don’t know if I can watch another game with Evans.
 



Even I think it's a tad disrespectful calling tuffty an experiment
 
8920_FF1_E-_B1_FB-4061-_AE67-6_F16_B6_A10376.jpg

Not sure we’ll see Bryan just yet but sod it, he deserves a chance as much as anyone else that’s played there so far.
 
Can't see that working, considering that Leonard is unproven at RB, Bryan is unproven at CM and neither Duffy or Woodburn are wingers.
Duffy/Woodburn aren’t meant to be wingers per se, more supporting a lone forward.

Leonard would improve us defensively from what I’ve seen, think he’s better one v one than Baldock (I’m presuming Freeman is injured). But again no great issue if Baldock plays there, can then try Leonard in the middle instead of Bryan (who did play CM for Oldham most of last season).
 
Listen, QPR are an unbelievable club, they have a fantastic squad of players, in fact it's hard to describe just how good their squad is. Steve McClaren is a wonderful man and an incredible manager, perhaps the best of his generation, and his experience internationally and abroad is something to behold. I've just got immeasurable respect and admiration for Steve, the club and the squad they've got.

It's going to be very hard for us, but one thing's for sure, we'll respect the hell out of them and we'll be going with the best line up for this opposition, and that is unquestionable. This line up is:

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - Henderson
- - - - - - - Basham - - Egan - - O'Connell
Baldock Leonard Evans Lundstram Fleck Stevens

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Clarke

Made me laugh that....I needed a laugh after last nights defeat.
 
Duffy/Woodburn aren’t meant to be wingers per se, more supporting a lone forward.

Leonard would improve us defensively from what I’ve seen, think he’s better one v one than Baldock (I’m presuming Freeman is injured). But again no great issue if Baldock plays there, can then try Leonard in the middle instead of Bryan (who did play CM for Oldham most of last season).

If Duffy and Woodburn aren't playing as wingers, who's responsible for carrying the ball, and providing crosses?
 
If Duffy and Woodburn aren't playing as wingers, who's responsible for carrying the ball, and providing crosses?
Essentially it’s exactly the same formation we finished with yesterday. We got more balls into the box in the last 30 minutes that we did the entire previous 60. Pretty sure JO’C can provide a better output than Stevens can at the minute, arguably Leonard on the opposite side too.

That said it is a narrow formation by design, will keep things tight and we’d hopefully see much more of Duffy and Woodburn in dangerous positions around the box.
 
This is what I'd go with.


- - - - - - - - - - - - - Henderson

- - - - - -Basham - Stearman - - O'Connell

Baldock - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bryan

- - - - - - - - Leonard - - - - - - - Fleck

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Duffy

- - - - - - - - - -Sharp - - - - - -Woodburn


Subs: Moore, Egan, Freeman, Lundstram, Evans, Clarke, McGoldrick
 
This is what I'd go with.


- - - - - - - - - - - - - Henderson

- - - - - -Basham - Stearman - - O'Connell

Baldock - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bryan

- - - - - - - - Leonard - - - - - - - Fleck

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Duffy

- - - - - - - - - -Sharp - - - - - -Woodburn


Subs: Moore, Egan, Freeman, Lundstram, Evans, Clarke, McGoldrick
Wouldn’t be totally against it but can’t see Egan dropping just yet. Maybe Egan on the right of the 3. Agree that Stearman has to come back.

At the moment I’m only seeing a role for Bash if it’s that destructive one in midfield and not sure we need that every week, but away from home it’s useful.
 
Ok so we can all agree that the Swansea performance was largely awful but that first half tonight took the biscuit. As bad a 45 minutes and defensive display I have seen since Clough's second season, possibly longer.

Wilder I am sure won't go with that starting line up again, he can't surely?! The midfield is anonymous and neither shields the defence, controls the tempo, nor creates anything for the strikers. However overall the team looked worryingly flat and disinterested. Whether players have had heads turned, or the [alleged] pre season bust ups were more serious than many thought remains to be seen. What got me the most was how easy heads seemed to drop at 0-2, not at all characteristic of a Wilder team and despite a few positive performances from the first half [McG, Baldock and Henderson - it could easily have been 4] , had the game ended at 45 minutes I would have been much more worried than I feel at this minute.

A few players to highlight:

Egan - needs to get his head in the game, and quick. I didn't think the whole 'record signing' razzmatazz was a great idea at the time, as it just heaps pressure. But at the end of the day he is an experienced player who Chris brought in to fix a problem. On first impressions he is making it worse. He needs to understand that a lot is resting on him this season.
What I would just add is that Stearman got off to a shaky start and then became as solid a performer as we have had in recent years. If things don't improve soon for Egan then Stears must come back in surely.

Stevens - poor as usual, misplaced passes, out of position and our left flank looked exposed yet again. I would love to see Lafferty or Bryan have a go and give Enda a little break.

Lundstram and Evans - sorry to lump them together but I am afraid they are not effective as a midfield duo. Neither seem to move the game forward and their tackling is clumsy at best. Lundstram looks unfit and Evans is too easily knocked off the ball.

Clarke - has been getting dog abuse all night and that may be partly deserved as he looks well off the pace at the moment. Remember though Blades he does score in streaks and I expect a few goals from him yet this season, but I think a little spell on the bench wouldn't harm him. Chris however seems to like him in the starting 11.

The second half, at least gave me some cause for optimism.

Woodburn is a lively little player, with some great touches and movement. Find a system and attacking partner or pair around him and we could be in for a treat with this lad.

As soon as Duffy came on the game came alive for us. Ok Boro were happy to sit back, but they tend to do that whenever they are in the lead under Pulis. Fleck looks a different player with Duffy on the field. The understanding that 2 of them forged [along with Coutts] cannot be underestimated. Our game instantly shifted 20-30 yards up the field as we pinned their team in. We looked like the team that used to start each game on the attack in previous seasons. I have said many times that whilst Fleck is our best player, Duffy and Coutts are the two most influential players, as they bring the best out of everyone else. Duffy is the anchor point around the opponent's 18 yard box and final 3rd that the whole team revolves around. Take him out and we look flat, every single time.

Leonard looked good, albeit in a short cameo. He had the energy and bite that neither Lunny or Evans seem to possess at the moment. I would consider giving him a start.


Assuming Chris has learnt from the last 2 games I seriously hope he plays to our strengths against QPR. Here is how I would like to see us line up, on the attack. I am assuming / hoping we get one more AM in and hopefully a striker. In any case a couple will miss the squad entirely.



...........................................................................Henderson................................................................................

.........................................Bash..............................Egan...................................JOC...........................................

...Baldock.............................................................................................................................................Lafferty....
.......................................................Leonard...............................Fleck.................................................................
...............................Woodburn....................................................................Duffy.................................................
........................................................................McGoldrick...................................................................................

Alternatively stick Duffy in the no.10 role and push Woodburn up as the second striker.

Subs:
Moore
Freeman
Stearman
Bryan/Stevens
Evans/Lunny
New AM or New Striker
Sharp/Clarke
quality post in all of the hysteria (self included) . good job. ;)
 
Listen, QPR are an unbelievable club, they have a fantastic squad of players, in fact it's hard to describe just how good their squad is. Steve McClaren is a wonderful man and an incredible manager, perhaps the best of his generation, and his experience internationally and abroad is something to behold. I've just got immeasurable respect and admiration for Steve, the club and the squad they've got.

It's going to be very hard for us, but one thing's for sure, we'll respect the hell out of them and we'll be going with the best line up for this opposition, and that is unquestionable. This line up is:

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - Henderson
- - - - - - - Basham - - Egan - - O'Connell
Baldock Leonard Evans Lundstram Fleck Stevens

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Clarke


I'm sensing sarcasm. Very subtle, but sarcasm none the less.

The line up looks interesting though. Sharp in for Clarke though.........
 
Can't see that working, considering that Leonard is unproven at RB, Bryan is unproven at CM and neither Duffy or Woodburn are wingers.
what have we got to lose?
i'd go .. like last time..

hendo
freeman stears egan joc anybody but enda even baldock/freeman on the wrong side
leonard fleck duffy
woody billy
 



Should be..

4-2-2-1-1 formation..


........................Moore

Baldock....Eagan ......Stearman. ,.,,,. JOC

.................Leonard....Bryan

........................................Fleck

................Duffy

.........................Woodburn

.........................,,Sharp


But it won’t be.
 

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