Whoever we bring in now...

[Cerberus Blade]

is not going to have the benefit of a "full pre-season".

What happens though if someone has already had a "half pre-season" with another club and then we sign them and they have a "half pre-season" with us? Does that count as a "full pre-season"?

Somebody told me that a "full pre-season" is just training as normal, but, the difference is that there's more emphasis in the first few weeks on getting down to a target weight and on fitness, and less on things like ball skills, tactics, set pieces etc. If that's true, then maybe there's no magic to having a "full pre-season" after all? Maybe players could join at any time of the season (transfer window and transfer funds permitting of course) and all the coaches need to say to them is...

"get some of that potted meat off if tha wants to gerrin fest team!"

Maybe you disagree though? Maybe you are one of those who believe the "full pre-season" is a magical, enchanted recipe, which the Football coaches can only produce once a season? In which case, you're probably thinking now that it's too late to sign someone till next July?

 

[Dutch Blade]

It's still 3 weeks till the first game, but yeah a full pre-season is better, but if the player has enough quality it's gonna be fine. It's not like we play rocket science football like Manchester City or something like that

 

[itsinyerblood]

is not going to have the benefit of a "full pre-season".

What happens though if someone has already had a "half pre-season" with another club and then we sign them and they have a "half pre-season" with us? Does that count as a "full pre-season"?

Somebody told me that a "full pre-season" is just training as normal, but, the difference is that there's more emphasis in the first few weeks on getting down to a target weight and on fitness, and less on things like ball skills, tactics, set pieces etc. If that's true, then maybe there's no magic to having a "full pre-season" after all? Maybe players could join at any time of the season (transfer window and transfer funds permitting of course) and all the coaches need to say to them is...

"get some of that potted meat off if tha wants to gerrin fest team!"

Maybe you disagree though? Maybe you are one of those who believe the "full pre-season" is a magical, enchanted recipe, which the Football coaches can only produce once a season? In which case, you're probably thinking now that it's too late to sign someone till next July?

No, the answer's simple mate, we do exactly what we did with Holmes. Bereft of a full pre-season we rest a player for a whole season in readyness for the next full pre-season to begin. That way we get the best out of 'em, simples.

 

[Carlton Blade]

If we loan Ched out now and get him back to train with us before 4th August does that count as 3 pre seasons? Just 3 more and he'll be firing

 

[Bladesman]

Doomed.

 

[bromtom]

Depends on who they have half a preseason with. Think the problem has been we shop at the value supermarket so their preparations are nowhere near ours.

When you're coming from league one to one of the fittest teams a league up that's too big a leap. Think Thomas said that he was absolutely fucked after a couple of Wilder Knill training sessions, he just wasn't used to it down the leagues.

If we get players from fit teams with good coaching staff who play at a certain level, then I don't forsee an issue.

If we go League 2 midtable then I can forsee issues.

 

[Nade]

Pre-season is when Wilder gets out his pre-seeason dust. He's run out by the time the season starts and has to go away each year from May-June to collect more of it from a mysterious man dwelling deep within the mountain caves of the Himalayas. He has to answer three riddles of increasing complexity, and in return get's a pouch made of silk full of the stuff.

 

[mancunianblade]

Didn’t we sign Kevin McDonald late in the summer? And he was a free transfer with no pre season?

 

[Cerberus Blade]

Pre-season is when Wilder gets out his pre-seeason dust. He's run out by the time the season starts and has to go away each year from May-June to collect more of it from a mysterious man dwelling deep within the mountain caves of the Himalayas. He has to answer three riddles of increasing complexity, and in return get's a pouch made of silk full of the stuff.

I was a doubter before, I must admit. I used to think that it was a total irrelevance because they train all throughout the season and if someone joins and isn't quite fit enough they would just be given additional training, or a different focus to their training for a few weeks and it would have exactly the same effect. I've even thought of it as being an excuse for under-performing players, I've even considered it hogwash, horse-shit, bull-shit and poppycock, thrown out there to baffle the feeble-minded amongst us.

But now you've explained that to us, I know it's true.

 

[Newbury Blade]

Depends on who they have half a preseason with. Think the problem has been we shop at the value supermarket so their preparations are nowhere near ours.

When you're coming from league one to one of the fittest teams a league up that's too big a leap. Think Thomas said that he was absolutely fucked after a couple of Wilder Knill training sessions, he just wasn't used to it down the leagues.

If we get players from fit teams with good coaching staff who play at a certain level, then I don't forsee an issue.

If we go League 2 midtable then I can forsee issues.

Well so far the player we have signed came from Manchester United, not a League 2 club (sadly) the last time I checked.

 

[Rob86]

I’m not a professional footballer and never have been, but I would think the longer you are settled into a job, the better you get at it. Getting to know the clubs set up, gaffers rules, tactics, other players etc will take a period of time (varies player to player), like it does with most moving jobs.

The pre-season bit is irrelevant IMO, but it does provide a 6 week period where results don’t matter, so it is perhaps a more relaxed time to join a club. Any player who’s decent should be able to get up to speed after the seasons started, just don’t know how long that will take.

We’ve got business done early in Wilder’s previous summers, so I admit, I’m one of the morons who’s getting a little bit concerned the new season is 3 weeks away and we are still looking to bring key players in. But I accept if the targets are of better quality, then it may take longer to acquire them.

Maybe it’ll be the reverse of last season. Start shit finish strong.

 

[Antonb]

I'm not going to lie! Am getting nervous! Our squad looks thin on the ground to me. And I don't think Clarke and Billy will score as many as they did last season.We have a non scoring midfield too. Oh dear, I need to lighten up!

 

[Topplayersleave]

I'm not going to lie! Am getting nervous! Our squad looks thin on the ground to me. And I don't think Clarke and Billy will score as many as they did last season.We have a non scoring midfield too. Oh dear, I need to lighten up!

Don't worry Antonb, we'll get some bodies in soon, good solid lads who are "versatile"
The good thing about "Versatile" players is they can play in more than one position, this means that instead of signing three players you can sign just one.
We can revamp our entire team with just three players and it will be music to everyones ears when we realise how cheap it's going to be and the agents couldn't influence the deal too much because nobody else was interested.

 

[Rodley]

Rumour Mill is rife with talk of Rodley throwing himself off Ribblehead Viaduct if Robbie and Cerbs keep regurgitating the same post every day....

 

[Pinchy]

I’m not a professional footballer and never have been,

You are Rob Kozluk and I claim £100.

 

[Cerberus Blade]

If we loan Ched out now and get him back to train with us before 4th August does that count as 3 pre seasons? Just 3 more and he'll be firing

Firing or retiring - one or the other!

 

[Cerberus Blade]

I’m not a professional footballer and never have been, but I would think the longer you are settled into a job, the better you get at it. Getting to know the clubs set up, gaffers rules, tactics, other players etc will take a period of time (varies player to player), like it does with most moving jobs.

The pre-season bit is irrelevant IMO, but it does provide a 6 week period where results don’t matter, so it is perhaps a more relaxed time to join a club. Any player who’s decent should be able to get up to speed after the seasons started, just don’t know how long that will take.

We’ve got business done early in Wilder’s previous summers, so I admit, I’m one of the morons who’s getting a little bit concerned the new season is 3 weeks away and we are still looking to bring key players in. But I accept if the targets are of better quality, then it may take longer to acquire them.

Maybe it’ll be the reverse of last season. Start shit finish strong.

Sensible comments. Agree with that. I’d settle for a shit start like Wilders first season, but with the same end result. It will be fun. We will get folks coming on here telling us the job’s too big for Wilder again. The pissheads who sit near to me will be able to leave early screaming “gerrit fuckin sooarted Wilder!” And we’ll be able to find some players to make scapegoats out of.

It’s been too perfect for too long since Wilder arrived. There’s been nothing to get angry about. That’s no way to run a football club!

 

[Rob86]

You are Rob Kozluk and I claim £100.

I wish mate, wouldn’t be at the coal face like I am now !! And I’d give you £100

 

[Rob86]

Sensible comments. Agree with that. I’d settle for a shit start like Wilders first season, but with the same end result. It will be fun. We will get folks coming on here telling us the job’s too big for Wilder again. The pissheads who sit near to me will be able to leave early screaming “gerrit fuckin sooarted Wilder!” And we’ll be able to find some players to make scapegoats out of.

It’s been too perfect for too long since Wilder arrived. There’s been nothing to get angry about. That’s no way to run a football club!

I think my only anxiety (and probably a few others) is that it goes to the wire on the signings and we don’t get them. Roulette in effect. Which is when we might be looking at the shit start and ............... January ! Heaven forbid !!

 

[Cerberus Blade]

I think my only anxiety (and probably a few others) is that it goes to the wire on the signings and we don’t get them. Roulette in effect. Which is when we might be looking at the shit start and ............... January ! Heaven forbid !!

If the ownership thing is still going on in Jan and Wilder gets a better offer, which is very likely imo, he’ll go. Very reluctantly of course. But I wouldn’t blame him. He’s come too far and done too well to dash his career on an unambitious boyhood club. No matter how much it means to him.

There will be clubs out there in Jan who will treble or quadruple his wages and give him the chance to manage at the highest level of English football.

That’s what we need to be concerned about. It’s far more important than signing a new centre forward. Although it’s linked to that of course.

 

[robbiez666]

is not going to have the benefit of a "full pre-season".

What happens though if someone has already had a "half pre-season" with another club and then we sign them and they have a "half pre-season" with us? Does that count as a "full pre-season"?

Somebody told me that a "full pre-season" is just training as normal, but, the difference is that there's more emphasis in the first few weeks on getting down to a target weight and on fitness, and less on things like ball skills, tactics, set pieces etc. If that's true, then maybe there's no magic to having a "full pre-season" after all? Maybe players could join at any time of the season (transfer window and transfer funds permitting of course) and all the coaches need to say to them is...

"get some of that potted meat off if tha wants to gerrin fest team!"

Maybe you disagree though? Maybe you are one of those who believe the "full pre-season" is a magical, enchanted recipe, which the Football coaches can only produce once a season? In which case, you're probably thinking now that it's too late to sign someone till next July?

Given the way we play, it takes weeks for players to get up to speed. If we sign late, they're not going to be at their best for a few games.

At the moment we're ok for injuries. That could change at any moment. I'm a little concerned at all of the players going out on loan. We currently have 3 fit centre backs (yes, Leonard has played there in a lower league and hasn't shown he can play in his preferred role in this division and Lafferty who is no good in his preferred role can cover) and 2 strikers who are good enough for this division. If O'Connell or Clarke got injured, we're in trouble. We're extremely light on numbers and squad depth.

 

[Cerberus Blade]

Given the way we play, it takes weeks for players to get up to speed. If we sign late, they're not going to be at their best for a few games.

At the moment we're ok for injuries. That could change at any moment. I'm a little concerned at all of the players going out on loan. We currently have 3 fit centre backs (yes, Leonard has played there in a lower league and hasn't shown he can play in his preferred role in this division and Lafferty who is no good in his preferred role can cover) and 2 strikers who are good enough for this division. If O'Connell or Clarke got injured, we're in trouble. We're extremely light on numbers and squad depth.

I think it takes any player a little while to adjust to a new club, a new manager, new team mates, different ways of playing. So yes I agree, it's better they come in early and start that process as soon as possible. However, we can over-complicate things a bit too much sometimes. It's just a game of football y'know? Good players will be good players wherever they go - if they feel like it that is. It's not like they've got to learn how to play again from scratch when they join a new team - they've just got to learn how the manager wants them to fit into that team.

But the fabled "pre-season" isn't mainly about tactics - it's more about fitness. This is the moment when players return from their summer break having not played competitive football for several weeks. This is the time when they come back pot-bellied. So, they are put through their paces. Read the stuff from The Star last week about United. Wilder's got them doing timed exercise and everyone is being pushed to beat their previous best time. As the week goes on they are all showing improvement in fitness levels. That's what this mystical pre-season is about. It's the period of the season when the players are pushed hard to shake off the excesses of not playing for several weeks.

This is happening at ALL clubs though, at the same time. So if we sign a player from another club right now, that player, (unless injured), will have been through a similar gruelling "get fit" routine somewhere else. Now already I see we have some fans on here saying, "Ah but, they haven't been through OUR pre-season before". Like the Sheff Utd one is the toughest of all pre-seasons - and therefore more beneficial than anyone else's. I have absolutely no idea what they are basing such a thing on - probably nothing at all.

At any point in time if we sign a player they are going to have to reach "match fitness" to the required level before they'll get in the first team. So I'm afraid there is no logic whatsoever in blaming a lack of pre-season, (our very special, "pre-season", not anyone else's cheap imitation), for a player's form. They're either fit, or they're not. They're either cutting it in terms of form, or they're not. It's really that simple and nothing to do with whether they joined in July or a different month!

To your main point though and yes we are a bit light on "options" I'd say, in a few different areas of the park. We've just sold the only player at the club who had any pace and would run at defenders. Even at our prime last season, we were looking like we were missing a big bully of a centre back - and we still don't have one of those. We only have 2 goalkeepers who are capable of playing at this level and one of them is rumoured to be off to another rival club. Our best midfielder won't be fit for the start of the season. And there's no sign of the quality "incoming" strikers that we have said we need. Oh yes, and the two owners are feighting each other in Court - let's not forget that little sideshow whilst we are worrying about the lack of transfer activity, because it's directly related!

How quickly fortunes can turn in football eh? Which is why, as I've said endlessly on here, you have to really bust a gut whilst you've got an opportunity, not "consolidate", (that's something you do when you are in trouble), because you never know when fortunes are going to change.

 

[robbiez666]

I think it takes any player a little while to adjust to a new club, a new manager, new team mates, different ways of playing. So yes I agree, it's better they come in early and start that process as soon as possible. However, we can over-complicate things a bit too much sometimes. It's just a game of football y'know? Good players will be good players wherever they go - if they feel like it that is. It's not like they've got to learn how to play again from scratch when they join a new team - they've just got to learn how the manager wants them to fit into that team.

But the fabled "pre-season" isn't mainly about tactics - it's more about fitness. This is the moment when players return from their summer break having not played competitive football for several weeks. This is the time when they come back pot-bellied. So, they are put through their paces. Read the stuff from The Star last week about United. Wilder's got them doing timed exercise and everyone is being pushed to beat their previous best time. As the week goes on they are all showing improvement in fitness levels. That's what this mystical pre-season is about. It's the period of the season when the players are pushed hard to shake off the excesses of not playing for several weeks.

This is happening at ALL clubs though, at the same time. So if we sign a player from another club right now, that player, (unless injured), will have been through a similar gruelling "get fit" routine somewhere else. Now already I see we have some fans on here saying, "Ah but, they haven't been through OUR pre-season before". Like the Sheff Utd one is the toughest of all pre-seasons - and therefore more beneficial than anyone else's. I have absolutely no idea what they are basing such a thing on - probably nothing at all.

At any point in time if we sign a player they are going to have to reach "match fitness" to the required level before they'll get in the first team. So I'm afraid there is no logic whatsoever in blaming a lack of pre-season, (our very special, "pre-season", not anyone else's cheap imitation), for a player's form. They're either fit, or they're not. They're either cutting it in terms of form, or they're not. It's really that simple and nothing to do with whether they joined in July or a different month!

To your main point though and yes we are a bit light on "options" I'd say, in a few different areas of the park. We've just sold the only player at the club who had any pace and would run at defenders. Even at our prime last season, we were looking like we were missing a big bully of a centre back - and we still don't have one of those. We only have 2 goalkeepers who are capable of playing at this level and one of them is rumoured to be off to another rival club. Our best midfielder won't be fit for the start of the season. And there's no sign of the quality "incoming" strikers that we have said we need. Oh yes, and the two owners are feighting each other in Court - let's not forget that little sideshow whilst we are worrying about the lack of transfer activity, because it's directly related!

How quickly fortunes can turn in football eh? Which is why, as I've said endlessly on here, you have to really bust a gut whilst you've got an opportunity, not "consolidate", (that's something you do when you are in trouble), because you never know when fortunes are going to change.

Oh course, but the point I was trying to make is that our match fitness takes longer. We play in a way which requires much higher levels of conditioning and stamina. Therefore, it takes longer to get up to 'speed'.

 

[Cerberus Blade]

Oh course, but the point I was trying to make is that our match fitness takes longer. We play in a way which requires much higher levels of conditioning and stamina. Therefore, it takes longer to get up to 'speed'.

Do you really believe that? I don’t personally. One thing about the way we play the game is you don’t have to run fast. It’s all about possession, slow, methodical, passing. Holding onto the ball and switching it side to side, or going backwards with it if need be, until you slowly work your way to the other end of the pitch.

I sometimes watch the likes of Stevens, O’Connell, Lundstram, Stearman, Wright and they seem to have only one thing in mind, “pass it back 5 yards to the bloke who just gave it to me”. Some are more guilty than others of course. (At least Jack does go on the occasional Indian charge).

You don’t have to be super fit to do that. It’s the like of Fleck, Coutts, Sharp, Clarke and Baldock who are running their bollocks off. The rest are very happy to make a meaningless pass and go “Kerching” - that’s my pass rate stat improved no end.

Basham works hard - I’ll give him that. He at least does try and go forwards with it. But he’s guilty of lots of brainless hoofing of the ball as well.

I think you’re kidding yourself if you think there’s something special about our style of play that requires much higher levels of fitness than any other team. It’s the equivalent of believing we are much less lucky than other teams. We aren’t. It’s the same for everyone.