Southgate v Weir v CW

[DazBlade88]

Or maybe he is just cut out for international football

For me, this is it. Some coaches are just destined for international management and it seems to suit Southgate. Credit where it's due, because almost everybody questioned the appointment.

 

[William Large]

Yes. Yes they are.

Erm, Sweden qualified ahead of the Netherlands and beat Italy over two legs. They also beat France on the way. They are not a poor side. I admit they are limited and play in a certain way (and in fairness we did make them look average) but they are far from a poor side.

Southgate would NOT have been a success at the lane because he would not have been afforded the patience and time he would have needed to make the same impact in terms of bringing youth players through. I was far from enthusiastic when he was appointed the England boss, but he has delivered (so far) where so many have failed in the past. Yes the draw was kind to us but how many times have we played poor opposition and failed to break them down. We have beaten what is in front of us and done what we had to do. Italia 90 is fondly remembered but we hardly sparkled in every match and laboured to beat Egypt to get out of the group.
This current team can also play far better, the likes of Lingard, Alli and Sterling have to be more effective with the ball now and prove they aren't overhyped and overpaid.

 

[snootyfenooty]

Southgate would be top of the pile in terms of recent England managers if it wasn't for one thing. He keeps playing fucking Sterling. We've got as far as we have playing with 10 men.

 

[snb69]

The only other managerial evidence we have is England. My point here being, we have beaten: Panama, Tunisia and Sweden. Look at it this way, did you expect us to beat him? Would you say it was not good enough if we had lost to them? Ofcourse, these are poor sides.

Yes, we should have beaten them on paper - but how many times has that been the case. And Sweden were a tough nut to crack, far from poor as others have pointed out, and the team did it comfortably. And we should have beaten Colombia in the 90 minutes, but they took their chance at the death.

We didn’t beat Colombia in 120mins and I’m sorry but you can’t give a manager credit for winning a penalty shootout, likewise he shouldn’t deserve criticism if they lose one.

Bollocks. There was a great article on how exactly GS prepared the team for penalties, always practiced them at the end of training, when the players were tired, how they owned the whole process (watch Pickford take the ball to each of our players). Even the 'miss' was a good save by the Colombian keeper, with Henderson hitting it low into the corner, not a Waddle-esque hit and hope over the bar. Only losers think penalties are a complete lottery

The one time we did come across a half decent team - Belgium (reserves!) - we lost without landing a punch on them.

With our reserves too. Who weren't really trying.I think it's fair to say our squad drops off a little quickly in key areas

Has he been able to take England above a standard expected of that team? Have we beaten a team that are deemed better than us? No, and so he can’t yet be measured against top quality managers until he achieves this. It’s great that we have gone so deep into the tournament but we can’t ignore that we have had the easiest route in history!

It's the third time we have reached the WC semi-final. With our actual performance, he is automatically into the top 3 England managers ever. He is the epitome of a modern manager - thoughtful, getting more of the players than they should on paper, playing a system where people know their roles, and do their job.

 

[HolmesfieldBlade]

Precisely, and your argument proves my point. Remember, we’re discussing the managerial quality here. Rudi Völler was the German coach for 2002. His only other managerial achievements were: an early exit from euro 2004 and a being sacked by Roma after one month.... and that’s it!

So back to my original point, England getting this far is no proof that Southgate is a great manager, we’ve just had an easy route.

Precisely, and your argument proves my point. Remember, we’re discussing the managerial quality here. Rudi Völler was the German coach for 2002. His only other managerial achievements were: an early exit from euro 2004 and a being sacked by Roma after one month.... and that’s it!

So back to my original point, England getting this far is no proof that Southgate is a great manager, we’ve just had an easy route.

Time will tell. Personally I believe we will come short in the final however the achievement shouldn’t be belittled. This is something only 2 other England managers have achieved.

Look at the stats, these players and this team are much better than you give credit for.

 

[Pinchy]

Time will tell. Personally I believe we will come short in the final however the achievement shouldn’t be belittled. This is something only 2 other England managers have achieved.

Look at the stats, these players and this team are much better than you give credit for.

I’ve seen them play. That’s all I need. They are a mediocre outfit who have (commendably) achieved beyond their ability. Now bring them home with due credit and let a world class team have the trophy.

 

[HolmesfieldBlade]

I’ve seen them play. That’s all I need. They are a mediocre outfit who have (commendably) achieved beyond their ability. Now bring them home with due credit and let a world class team have the trophy.

Stones, Walker, Sterling - Man City
Trippier, Dele, Kane - Spurs
Lingard, Young - Man Utd

That's 8 of the starting lineup who play for top 3 premier league sides, regularly.

Although I agree with you, lifting the trophy is a big ask, this side always have a chance whilst being so effective at set-pieces.

 

[Bladeinleeds]

Makes me laugh when people talk about poor sides like we didn’t get our arses handed to us by the likes of Iceland or struggle against Costa Rica in previous tournaments.

What Southgate has done is different but no less radical than Wilder here.

He’s dropped the names, played players based on form, been tactically innovative and created a cohesive squad that is finally playing like the sun of their parts and not been stymied be egos or pressure.

I won’t admit it’s not a pleasant surprise how he’s doing but we can’t dent he’s done a good job.

 

[Razor1967]

Southgate would be top of the pile in terms of recent England managers if it wasn't for one thing. He keeps playing fucking Sterling. We've got as far as we have playing with 10 men.

A blinkered view I’m afraid....

 

[Yewsman]

I think the attributes required to be an international team manager are rather different to those for a League team. The mani thing is you don't have to worry about transfer fees and wages. It's more dealing with players egos and getting them to play as a team rather than a bunch of individuals. GS showed no ability really as a league manager and frankly he only got the England job after big Sam got found out and nobody else wanted it. However he has shown he apparently has the qualities to do the job. I remember at the last world cup Chris Waddle saying that the England team was just a bunch of individuals who when they weren't playing or training just walked around listening to their ipods on ear phones or played computer games in their hotel bedrooms. There was no "team spirit". Basically they were all over paid prima donnas who did not give a shit about playing for England - why would they as they were on £100 - £300k a week and probably just wanted to have a couple of months off with their families.
GS got rid of most of the prima donnas, got in younger hungrier players, albeit still very well paid, but has built and fostered a great team spirit that was not there before. I suspect that he also has regard to the characters of the players he selects, not just their footballing ability. They now look like and play like a team and he has got the best out of the players he has.
In fact he has done exactly what CW has done at SUFC and even plays the same 3-5-2 system. He even uses our (ex) players! The only difference is the players are better and he doesn't have to worry that one or more may be sold to Bournemouth or if he can unearth a gem on a free transfer or from L1 MK Dons.
So I would say he and CW are quite similar in their qualities but I doubt GS could recruit like CW and manage a tight budget.
As for DW he clearly was not cut out to be a league Manager or international one. He has perhaps found hid level as assistant manager.