Strikers

[Cerberus Blade]

If you look at the modern striker: Aguero, Abemuyeng and dare I say Vardy - Brooks has the raw attributes to develop in their mould.

Imagine Duffy, Coutts and Fleck supplying him...

I will in a minute Rog. Right now I’m just imagining my wife insisting that I have a ménage a trois with her and her best friend. Close season boredom obviously!

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

I will in a minute Rog. Right now I’m just imagining my wife insisting that I have a ménage a trois with her and her best friend. Close season boredom obviously!

So long as her best friend isn't a 6ft 4in Afro-Caribbean fireman???

Then again, if he is, whatever's your poison...

 

[nopigfansintown]

It's pretty simple. A team that primarily plays two up top needs four quality strikers for the league and cup campaigns. We have two: Clarke and Sharp.A well run club will let it's players legs go on someone else's pitch, particularly if a good price can be obtained for its ageing players.It's good business practise; nothing personal. At the very least, you have to have medium and long term planning as these players are phased out.At United we have a situation when three excellent servants (Duffy,Clarke and Sharp) are reaching their last few years (at best) as mainstays in our team. We haven't a clue how were going to line up yet., so a lot of this is just conjecture All will become clearer when the first few attacking players come through the door.Maybe even Wilder is uncertain how things will pan out. Remember, we were told we'd be playing 4-4-2 with out and wingers when he first arrived...

 

[1066blade]

What's the academy all about? We can't produce a first team striker of any worth in ten years or more, FFS!

 

[nopigfansintown]

What's the academy all about? We can't produce a first team striker of any worth in ten years or more, FFS!

Dominic Calvert Lewin, Che Adams, David Brooks, Jordan Slew all had all or part of their development in our academy.

 

[BushBlade]

What's the academy all about? We can't produce a first team striker of any worth in ten years or more, FFS!

Strikers are easy to scout as kids, they score loads of goals. So all the kids who score loads of goals end up at the big academies. Or they get poached when they’re quite young and compensation is minimal. Even the late developers are hard to keep because as soon as they start scoring regularly, big clubs come in for them. Like DCL for us or young Hirst for t’pigs.

And if the academy ‘only’ produces defenders and midfielders, it means we don’t have to buy as many defenders and midfielders and can spend more money on strikers.

 

[stringer]

But in Brooks - we have one here already.

Not sure I see the fuss about boosting our front line? Our biggest issue last year was keeping clean sheets and holding on to leads...

Could look at that two ways really. Thinking of games like Brentford and Cardiff over Easter when United missed enough chances to win five games. Instead they scored once in each and conceded equalisers to take two points instead of six.
Put both games to bed by going 3-0 up, everyone calms down a little and when the defence inevitably concedes, because we’re not playing Gillingham or Oldham in League One any more, it’s not nearly as relevant

 

[Cerberus Blade]

So long as her best friend isn't a 6ft 4in Afro-Caribbean fireman???

Then again, if he is, whatever's your poison...

Ha! That’s my Uncle Bertie! That would never happen! He doesn’t like football for a start and only ever visits us when I am out at the match.

 

[Cerberus Blade]

Dominic Calvert Lewin, Che Adams, David Brooks, Jordan Slew all had all or part of their development in our academy.

It’s a lifeline for clubs like us, that’s what it’s about. I agree that very few, maybe less than 1%, will ever make the grade, but those that do pay for the others.

It’s also important from a community point of view. Our club is something to be proud of for what it gives back to local grass roots football. More so than any other club in this region.

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

Absolutely spot on.

Unfortunately, a significant proportion of our fan base are among the thickest, most myopic ingrates in all of English football.

Consider two commonly held "ideas" by these arseholes, both in the stands and on the internet:

1) Our strikers are shit/past it/ don't "do" anything.

2) Let's offload David Brooks as soon as possible.

Imagine the shit we'd be in if those morons had any say whatsoever.

I fall into both categories. Pre last season, I'd thought we needed 30 goals from the forwards to be ok. I was doubtful that Clarke and Sharpe were sufficiently good enough at that time for what was needed. That was based upon my take on Clarke's age and previous goal scoring exploits throughout the rest of his career, and Sharpe's age and playing style. LC & BS provided 32 league goals between themselves last season, the most of a any pairing in the division, so for the most part I've been royally proven wrong. However, after a purple patch LC's form worryingly dropped off, as well as the fact that for a supposedly box player he plays on his heels a hell of a lot. I also thought that we'd need the intervention of Evans to help us out, and that he still had something to offer. That wasn't the case. I'm still of the mindset that we need more firepower than LC & BS, although i've now resigned myself to the fact that CE is finished as a striker at the level we need him to perform at. Again, this pre-season, I doubt LC & BS can provide the magic 30 goals we need, due to age & our playing style, but await to be proven wrong again.

Regarding DB, I just feel that whatever happens, he'll be gone by the start of the 19/20 season, money talks, and we've not got enough of it for either him or his agent to listen for much longer and in the wider sense, if CW could fully invest all the monies raised, we'd be better selling him and bringing in replacements & strengthening. I don't doubt DB will give us a handful of stardust moments next year, but he's not what we really need. I'm also not 100% sure he will build on what he's done this season. For it to be worthwhile, he needs to be perform at the level of Sessignon, Grealish or Maddison. He has to be the full cake for us & not just the cherry. There's no agenda, bitterness or cuntery about my views, just a gut feel. Sometimes it's right, sometimes it's wrong. I always knew that Jags would play international football, however, I also thought the same of Kyle Naughton. I'm happy that CW has sorted out a keeper for next year, but the bottom line he isn't ours, and we are just kicking the can down the road on these issues. Pushing the problem out another 12 months. When we last went down the route of loanee keepers, Bunn, Ikeme, etc, it was the start of the decline, I never want to risk that again, not for the sake of a handful of cruyff turns, drag backs, nutmegs & cross-come-shots.

 

[robbiez666]

We basically have two strikers who can play at this level. Both are ageing and legs are going to go at some stage. We need to bring in two more, one of whom needs to be capable at regularly starting at this level. Difficult without much money.

 

[blade too long]

Last season we brought in 2 strikers who started well Donaldson and a man utd starlet who just never did themselves justice. Both are leaving / left so there's 2 opportunites for either fresh blood or a young player to storm in like Brooks has.
You can count on one hand ,maybe 2 or 3 fingers the proven 20 goal a season pacy strikers on the open market. Chris will do well to find one

 

[GreenhillBladeinToronto]

I agree with you to a point Joe. Strikers who are at the top of the game are few and far between and there's a huge price tag on their heads - I don't believe we are in for anyone like that, and neither should we be imo. They type of striker we should be in for, are those who are not at the top of their game - ones who, for whatever reason, haven't set the world alight yet perhaps, but have the potential to develop, improve, become a key player in future. So, when you refer to Sam Gallagher as not appearing to be anything special, I get excited by that. Because I think that's exactly the type of striker we should be looking at, especially if they have youth on their side.

I referred on another thread the other day to the signing of Brian Deane. We could throw Tony Agana into this mix as well. How many Blades on here had even heard of these two before Bassett signed them? I know I hadn't. I remember thinking to myself, we've signed some young, big,,gangly kid from Donny and a bloke from Watford reserves! Quite underwhelming it was - until I saw them play!

We should be grateful for the likes of Sharp and Clarke and I think most of us are, but we should also always be looking to improve on what we've got. Neither of these two are getting any younger and they aren't going to carry on forever banging in the goals at this level. It's not being disrespectful to them to be looking to add other players, younger players, who have a bit more life-span in terms of playing time ahead of them. It doesn't mean the younger players will automatically take their place - it has to be earned - but maybe the younger players can learn a thing from these two and really benefit from being in the same squad.

The one thing, above all, that I think the current team lacks is a player, just one, who, when he gets the ball the opposition are terrified of what he's going to do. Someone who can cause the opposition defence to have kittens! Someone who will take players on, run at them, get behind them, dribble them to death and whip in crosses and shots. We don't have anyone like that. Duffy has some of these qualities, but not all. I'm thinking of a Tony Agana, or a Steve Kabba, or a Paul Devlin, or a Jamie Murphy or even a Steve Wigley or a Franz Carr type player. Not all in that list were brilliant, or consistent, but they had one thing in common - when they got the ball the other team shat themselves, because of their pace, or trickery, or both. That is what we are missing imo. And that actually needn't be a really expensive thing to buy in - because it usually comes in the form of wingers - and wingers are very out of fashion thesedays. So it's still possible to pick them up cheaply.

Din’t We have that

I agree with you to a point Joe. Strikers who are at the top of the game are few and far between and there's a huge price tag on their heads - I don't believe we are in for anyone like that, and neither should we be imo. They type of striker we should be in for, are those who are not at the top of their game - ones who, for whatever reason, haven't set the world alight yet perhaps, but have the potential to develop, improve, become a key player in future. So, when you refer to Sam Gallagher as not appearing to be anything special, I get excited by that. Because I think that's exactly the type of striker we should be looking at, especially if they have youth on their side.

I referred on another thread the other day to the signing of Brian Deane. We could throw Tony Agana into this mix as well. How many Blades on here had even heard of these two before Bassett signed them? I know I hadn't. I remember thinking to myself, we've signed some young, big,,gangly kid from Donny and a bloke from Watford reserves! Quite underwhelming it was - until I saw them play!

We should be grateful for the likes of Sharp and Clarke and I think most of us are, but we should also always be looking to improve on what we've got. Neither of these two are getting any younger and they aren't going to carry on forever banging in the goals at this level. It's not being disrespectful to them to be looking to add other players, younger players, who have a bit more life-span in terms of playing time ahead of them. It doesn't mean the younger players will automatically take their place - it has to be earned - but maybe the younger players can learn a thing from these two and really benefit from being in the same squad.

The one thing, above all, that I think the current team lacks is a player, just one, who, when he gets the ball the opposition are terrified of what he's going to do. Someone who can cause the opposition defence to have kittens! Someone who will take players on, run at them, get behind them, dribble them to death and whip in crosses and shots. We don't have anyone like that. Duffy has some of these qualities, but not all. I'm thinking of a Tony Agana, or a Steve Kabba, or a Paul Devlin, or a Jamie Murphy or even a Steve Wigley or a Franz Carr type player. Not all in that list were brilliant, or consistent, but they had one thing in common - when they got the ball the other team shat themselves, because of their pace, or trickery, or both. That is what we are missing imo. And that actually needn't be a really expensive thing to buy in - because it usually comes in the form of wingers - and wingers are very out of fashion thesedays. So it's still possible to pick them up cheaply.

Don’t we have that player already in David Brooks ?

 

[finlaytheblade]

I fall into both categories. Pre last season, I'd thought we needed 30 goals from the forwards to be ok. I was doubtful that Clarke and Sharpe were sufficiently good enough at that time for what was needed. That was based upon my take on Clarke's age and previous goal scoring exploits throughout the rest of his career, and Sharpe's age and playing style. LC & BS provided 32 league goals between themselves last season, the most of a any pairing in the division, so for the most part I've been royally proven wrong. However, after a purple patch LC's form worryingly dropped off, as well as the fact that for a supposedly box player he plays on his heels a hell of a lot. I also thought that we'd need the intervention of Evans to help us out, and that he still had something to offer. That wasn't the case. I'm still of the mindset that we need more firepower than LC & BS, although i've now resigned myself to the fact that CE is finished as a striker at the level we need him to perform at. Again, this pre-season, I doubt LC & BS can provide the magic 30 goals we need, due to age & our playing style, but await to be proven wrong again.

Regarding DB, I just feel that whatever happens, he'll be gone by the start of the 19/20 season, money talks, and we've not got enough of it for either him or his agent to listen for much longer and in the wider sense, if CW could fully invest all the monies raised, we'd be better selling him and bringing in replacements & strengthening. I don't doubt DB will give us a handful of stardust moments next year, but he's not what we really need. I'm also not 100% sure he will build on what he's done this season. For it to be worthwhile, he needs to be perform at the level of Sessignon, Grealish or Maddison. He has to be the full cake for us & not just the cherry. There's no agenda, bitterness or cuntery about my views, just a gut feel. Sometimes it's right, sometimes it's wrong. I always knew that Jags would play international football, however, I also thought the same of Kyle Naughton. I'm happy that CW has sorted out a keeper for next year, but the bottom line he isn't ours, and we are just kicking the can down the road on these issues. Pushing the problem out another 12 months. When we last went down the route of loanee keepers, Bunn, Ikeme, etc, it was the start of the decline, I never want to risk that again, not for the sake of a handful of cruyff turns, drag backs, nutmegs & cross-come-shots.

Unless we hit the top half of Prem then it's obviouse we will lose someone of. Brooks,s undoubted ability it's the wages that will do it.
Wilder knows this and will choose the right .time to sell which could be now if some team puts in a bid we can't refuse,I don't think it's imminent and we should be able to enjoy his abilities this season.Supporters always moaning at how quick we succumbed to offers in the past will be happy our manager knows the score and we do what's best for the club.
Promotion. this season would change the entire picture and we then could maybe hold on to a rare talent that Brooks is.
Wilder seems to have full confidence of the owners which means he will choose the time to sell if ever,in Wilder we have to trust.

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

Unless we hit the top half of Prem then it's obviouse we will lose someone of. Brooks,s undoubted ability it's the wages that will do it.
Wilder knows this and will choose the right .time to sell which could be now if some team puts in a bid we can't refuse,I don't think it's imminent and we should be able to enjoy his abilities this season.Supporters always moaning at how quick we succumbed to offers in the past will be happy our manager knows the score and we do what's best for the club.
Promotion. this season would change the entire picture and we then could maybe hold on to a rare talent that Brooks is.
Wilder seems to have full confidence of the owners which means he will choose the time to sell if ever,in Wilder we have to trust.

Top half of the Prem? We'd lose Brooks because we can't pay top 6 Championship wages.

 

[finlaytheblade]

Top half of the Prem? We'd lose Brooks because we can't pay top 6 Championship wages.

If we stay in championship obviously we will lose him,ime a positive blade and we can get promotion

 

[8lade]

i've now resigned myself to the fact that CE is finished as a striker at the level we need him to perform at.

I always knew that Jags would play international football, however, I also thought the same of Kyle Naughton.

Think as most people are you're giving up on Evans too quickly although this is a pivotal season for him, he's had the op and will get the rehab he needs and since Wilder has already said he needs a loan, I'm assuming Wilder is confident we shall be getting at least 2 more strikers in. I'm not as confident as everybody else is, that either Gallagher or Hogan should we purchase either of them are what we need (yes I haven't studied their off the ball performances as most people seem to be suggesting they have but from their records and Youtube performances they are no where near Sharp and Clarke, I'd expect Evans to have scored the number of goals they did with that amount of time on the pitch!).

I think Naughton was more a victim of his willingness to play left sided, once he went there he endured a number of seasons on that side whereas he would've developed better on his natural side.

 

[Liaminho9]

Dominic Calvert Lewin, Che Adams, David Brooks, Jordan Slew all had all or part of their development in our academy.

I would challenge Che Adams... we signed him from Ilkeston and he went straight into the first team squad.

 

[nopigfansintown]

I would challenge Che Adams... we signed him from Ilkeston and he went straight into the first team squad.

Played academy games and worked with academy coaches.I know as I was there watching.It was some time before his first team debut. I did say "or part of their development".Get used to players finishing their development rather than having the majority of it at United. This is the reality of the post EPPP world. Calver Lewins will become increasingly rare; the definition of being developed in an academy will change to reflect the new landscape.

 

[Liaminho9]

Played academy games and worked with academy coaches.I know as I was there watching.It was some time before his first team debut. I did say "or part of their development".Get used to players finishing their development rather than having the majority of it at United. This is the reality of the post EPPP world. Calver Lewins will become increasingly rare; the definition of being developed in an academy will change to reflect the new landscape.

I wasn’t ‘there’, but the records show we signed him in November, and made his debut in December... i agree on all points you raise except this one.
Yes we ‘discovered’ him, but we can’t credit him as an academy player IMO

 

[St Annington]

There is also the possibility of Wilder going with one up front, therefore not needing 2 strikers on the pitch at the same time and expecting more goals from attacking midfield (either current players or new signings). Playing with a lone striker doesn't have to equate to negative football, but it does require pace in other players.

Didn't Wilder play 4-2-3-1 at Northampton, and they won the league scoring 82 goals.

 

[DronnieBlade]

There is also the possibility of Wilder going with one up front, therefore not needing 2 strikers on the pitch at the same time and expecting more goals from attacking midfield (either current players or new signings). Playing with a lone striker doesn't have to equate to negative football, but it does require pace in other players.

Didn't Wilder play 4-2-3-1 at Northampton, and they won the league scoring 82 goals.

He has done this with us.

Sharp and DB acting as support for either Leon or Donaldson.

I wouldn’t see this as a mainstay tactic but certainly something to consider adjusting to mid way through the game, or perhaps at the start of some (mainly away) games.

But I am fundamentally opposed to the frustratingly negative use of a so called target man. It doesn’t work. Plain and simple. Maybe in certain circumstances, and in the main from off the bench, I can possibly handle it (e.g. last 10 mins, chasing the game etc.).

The object of the game is to score. Assuming your target man, given the type of role he would be asked to do, MIGHT be good for 10-12 goals per season, where are the rest to come from ??

Gonna have to be one heck of a target man that can genuinely assist others in order to take up this slack !!

UTB

 

[St Annington]

He has done this with us.

Sharp and DB acting as support for either Leon or Donaldson.

I wouldn’t see this as a mainstay tactic but certainly something to consider adjusting to mid way through the game, or perhaps at the start of some (mainly away) games.

But I am fundamentally opposed to the frustratingly negative use of a so called target man. It doesn’t work. Plain and simple. Maybe in certain circumstances, and in the main from off the bench, I can possibly handle it (e.g. last 10 mins, chasing the game etc.).

The object of the game is to score. Assuming your target man, given the type of role he would be asked to do, MIGHT be good for 10-12 goals per season, where are the rest to come from ??

Gonna have to be one heck of a target man that can genuinely assist others in order to take up this slack !!

UTB

Playing one up front doesn't automatically mean playing with a target man.

I was thinking along the lines of:
'what if we don't sign another quality striker due to financial issues etc and are left to start the season with the players we have. People on here have flagged concerns about Leon and Billy's legs 'getting on a bit' - so by playing one up front Wilder could manage their fitness by rotating them and try and coax more goals from midfield.'

 

[DronnieBlade]

Playing one up front doesn't automatically mean playing with a target man.

I was thinking along the lines of:
'what if we don't sign another quality striker due to financial issues etc and are left to start the season with the players we have. People on here have flagged concerns about Leon and Billy's legs 'getting on a bit' - so by playing one up front Wilder could manage their fitness by rotating them and try and coax more goals from midfield.'

Let’s see how they get on before writing them both off.

But this itself is a problem. Sharp and Clarke together are not an optimal pairing. More than sufficient evidence of this.

Even more frustrating is CWs seeming unwillingness to drag off Leon, even when, as has happened once or twice (), he has perhaps been, well, below par !!

The answer most certainly is stiffer competition for places up there.

I trust Wilder to put this right, BUT (and like our lasses, it’s a big un), CW / AK have hardly inspired a great deal of confidence in prior attacking recruitment, and have, to my mind at least, made several Hum dingingly bad recruitment decisions in this area of the pitch.

Maybe the extra dollars will help !!!!

UTB

 

[nopigfansintown]

I wasn’t ‘there’, but the records show we signed him in November, and made his debut in December... i agree on all points you raise except this one.
Yes we ‘discovered’ him, but we can’t credit him as an academy player IMO

It's a bit of a semantic point isn't it? How long's a piece of string? I know pigs who wont accept that Brooks is an SUFC academy player because he was only in our academy for two years. Adams was in and out of the academy during his first season.

 

[nopigfansintown]

Let’s see how they get on before writing them both off.

But this itself is a problem. Sharp and Clarke together are not an optimal pairing. More than sufficient evidence of this.

Even more frustrating is CWs seeming unwillingness to drag off Leon, even when, as has happened once or twice (), he has perhaps been, well, below par !!

The answer most certainly is stiffer competition for places up there.

I trust Wilder to put this right, BUT (and like our lasses, it’s a big un), CW / AK have hardly inspired a great deal of confidence in prior attacking recruitment, and have, to my mind at least, made several Hum dingingly bad recruitment decisions in this area of the pitch.

Maybe the extra dollars will help !!!!

UTB

I feel it's been mainly down to finances. When we signed Hanson, Wilder said "we're not in the market for million pound players". When we were on our first season in the Championship, Knill claimed that he and Wilder thought Ollie Watkins was the best technical player in the Championship, but unfortunately we couldn't afford him.Still, we got promoted and finished in the top half,but could've possibly done more with better backing.I always think it's false economy going for the cheap stop gaps myself. It will be difficult to shift Hanson, Lavery and Ched from the wage bill now.Ollie Watkins would be worth a big figure.

 

[DronnieBlade]

I feel it's been mainly down to finances. When we signed Hanson, Wilder said "we're not in the market for million pound players". When we were on our first season in the Championship, Knill claimed that he and Wilder thought Ollie Watkins was the best technical player in the Championship, but unfortunately we couldn't afford him.Still, we got promoted and finished in the top half,but could've possibly done more with better backing.I always think it's false economy going for the cheap stop gaps myself. It will be difficult to shift Hanson, Lavery and Ched from the wage bill now.Ollie Watkins would be worth a big figure.

And you can’t blame CW for wanting players (Watkins / Gregory) that we just couldn’t get over the line.

But the 3 players you mention are examples of what I previously stated. None have been a success as things stand and might prove difficult to shift, which compounds the error in judgement.

In fairness I’ll just about reserve judgement on Evans but it has to happen for him soon, and in a big way.

UTB

 

[nopigfansintown]

And you can’t blame CW for wanting players (Watkins / Gregory) that we just couldn’t get over the line.

But the 3 players you mention are examples of what I previously stated. None have been a success as things stand and might prove difficult to shift, which compounds the error in judgement.

In fairness I’ll just about reserve judgement on Evans but it has to happen for him soon, and in a big way.

UTB

Think Hanson and Lavery can be put under helped us get over the line and gave us depth.Would always prefer development players to these though, as they all need paying, and when their purpose is served they are hard to shift. Donaldson served a purpose for one year.Agree on Evans.The good thing is they all cost relative peanuts in terms of fees.
Forgot Wilson, who considering everything has probably been the worst.Will have been on big bucks and added very little.

 

[steve26272]

every team in the world want to improve it's forward line.
to those who are writing off Leon & Billy (and i do agree if possible we should improve btw)
who would you buy?
what do you think your suggestion would cost?
what do you think our budget is?

 

[Iceybabey]

My money's on Clarke starting the season up front, the other slot is up for grabs.