Players who stand up to be counted when it's dark and the sun isn't shining.

[Woodwardfan]

Mourinho is being very honest about his feelings of late. I've just listened to his post-Brighton interview in which he talks of players who keep 'at it' in dark times as well as sunny times. He named Matic and Tominay as 'islands of positivity' who kept 'at it' throughout the game while others didn't show, kept working but not really fully 'at it', not demanding the ball, taking responsibility, they were scared to play in fact.

While he was talking I thought of Wilder and his players. Our manager doesn't criticise individuals unfavourably in public and confines his personal comments to praise when it's due. He has a go at the group in public occasionally but never at individuals. Mainly he praises the application and character of his group of players at every opportunity.

That said, I think the man himself has been surprised, even shocked at the loss of momentum by his group and is now learning so much about each individual in these grey times after all that success over the first 16 months he managed us. Certainly he will be looking at the January signings and wondering why they haven't settled better, will they be good enough?

If we all cast our minds back and think of the activity and general busyness on the pitch by the group and relate it to today's team which has nowhere near the intensity, optimism or sheer bravado which have all seeped away. Wilder cannot turn on switches to bring back the sunshine but he will be noting full well which players are the ones who keep 'at it' in bad times.

If he was to name the Matic's of our team last Saturday, maybe he would have said Fleck, Blackman, Stearman, O'Connell ( but not by his past standards); nobody else. Not enough that's for sure.

I also think certain players were carried along on the coat-tails of other players and have to step up when their main men are 'off the boil'. Most of all let's see that urgency and determination as a minimum. Even if mistakes are made we all want to see our team outworking the opposition and moving the ball quicker and players demanding the ball.

Mourinho talked of the 'heavy Man Utd shirt they wear'. Well it's all relative and for most of our players our shirt is the 'heaviest' they have ever worn. We are a 'big club' for most of these lads.

 

[steve26272]

the top 5-10% of players aside, the biggest differentiator at this level is attitude and application.
look at Chelsea this season to last, same players and manager, they just aren't at it.
were not that bad, but we have struggled since Coutts injury.
combination of several effects, but if the season started the day after coutts injury, where would we be in the league?

 

[Fanny magnet]

Our players have lost their confidence and instead of being brave and trying a forward pass with a risk of losing possession they are looking for the safe pass often turning down good opportunities and preferring instead to pass the buck and move the ball on to someone else

That to me is more cowardly than not running or tackling

 

[Cerberus Blade]

Mourinho is being very honest about his feelings of late. I've just listened to his post-Brighton interview in which he talks of players who keep 'at it' in dark times as well as sunny times. He named Matic and Tominay as 'islands of positivity' who kept 'at it' throughout the game while others didn't show, kept working but not really fully 'at it', not demanding the ball, taking responsibility, they were scared to play in fact.

While he was talking I thought of Wilder and his players. Our manager doesn't criticise individuals unfavourably in public and confines his personal comments to praise when it's due. He has a go at the group in public occasionally but never at individuals. Mainly he praises the application and character of his group of players at every opportunity.

That said, I think the man himself has been surprised, even shocked at the loss of momentum by his group and is now learning so much about each individual in these grey times after all that success over the first 16 months he managed us. Certainly he will be looking at the January signings and wondering why they haven't settled better, will they be good enough?

If we all cast our minds back and think of the activity and general busyness on the pitch by the group and relate it to today's team which has nowhere near the intensity, optimism or sheer bravado which have all seeped away. Wilder cannot turn on switches to bring back the sunshine but he will be noting full well which players are the ones who keep 'at it' in bad times.

If he was to name the Matic's of our team last Saturday, maybe he would have said Fleck, Blackman, Stearman, O'Connell ( but not by his past standards); nobody else. Not enough that's for sure.

I also think certain players were carried along on the coat-tails of other players and have to step up when their main men are 'off the boil'. Most of all let's see that urgency and determination as a minimum. Even if mistakes are made we all want to see our team outworking the opposition and moving the ball quicker and players demanding the ball.

Mourinho talked of the 'heavy Man Utd shirt they wear'. Well it's all relative and for most of our players our shirt is the 'heaviest' they have ever worn. We are a 'big club' for most of these lads.

If they stand up to be counted when it’s dark, is there a possibility that we may not see them? And the sun isn’t usually shining when it’s dark, so I’m a bit confused by the question?

However, despite the baffling thread title I think I know what you’re getting at.

My view is that the comparison with the situation at Man United isn’t relevant. We don’t have players who “aren’t at it”. I think they are all giving it their best. Some have dipped in form but none have dipped in effort. The facts are some aren’t good enough to sustain the team at the very top levels of this division, but, collectively we’re still good enough to make the play-offs and that’s a great achievement in itself for this team.

And if we make the play-offs we have a realistic chance of promotion.

 

[bornablade]

Baldock rarely goes missing in action.

 

[LenTednTony]

I don’t think anyone hides but some take the lead. I am thinking Bash, Billy, Jack, Duffy and Fleck in particular.

 

[coaxingstar71]

I agree with most others in that it's not a case of any of our players hiding, it's just that we seem to have lost a certain fluidity to our play that we had when Coutts was playing. Coaches talk about playing with fear and a lot of the game is a test of mental strength. If you take most of the players in the Championship, they will all have similar abilities in terms of fitness and skill, it's just that some are mentally stronger. This is why when things are going well, everything seems to come off but as soon as a few balls go astray, it's like an epidemic. The best players are those that rise above and can drag a team with them to a better performance.

 

[ljk]

Baldock rarely goes missing in action.

That’s very true, actually.

 

[BerksBlade]

Our players have lost their confidence and instead of being brave and trying a forward pass with a risk of losing possession they are looking for the safe pass often turning down good opportunities and preferring instead to pass the buck and move the ball on to someone else
That to me is more cowardly than not running or tackling

Which of our players do you consider to be particularly cowardly??

 

[grafikhaus]

Combination of several effects, but if the season started the day after coutts injury, where would we be in the league?

Der, bottom? Up to and including the Burton game where Coutts was injured, we got 36 points in 17 games. In the 21 games since, we've got 24 points so, yes, definitely bottom.

 

[Fanny magnet]

Which of our players do you consider to be particularly cowardly??

I think I explained that in my post ,if you want me to name names I could go right through the team

 

[Woodwardfan]

If they stand up to be counted when it’s dark, is there a possibility that we may not see them? And the sun isn’t usually shining when it’s dark, so I’m a bit confused by the question?

However, despite the baffling thread title I think I know what you’re getting at.

My view is that the comparison with the situation at Man United isn’t relevant. We don’t have players who “aren’t at it”. I think they are all giving it their best. Some have dipped in form but none have dipped in effort. The facts are some aren’t good enough to sustain the team at the very top levels of this division, but, collectively we’re still good enough to make the play-offs and that’s a great achievement in itself for this team.

And if we make the play-offs we have a realistic chance of promotion.

The thread title is the words used by Mourinho. If you've a few minutes spare have a watch, it's fascinating for a number of reasons.

Mourinho is almost in meltdown but of course he speaks many a true word even in his rants. Some basics about players' character and bravery in 'dark times' which for the Mancs are relatively 'sunny' for anybody else. He chose to praise just the two players in a game they "controlled" and won 2-0.

He tried to explain how players have to stand up and be counted even though the shirt is "heavy" and the team are not playing well.

 

[1973Blade]

What about players who stand up to be counted during an eclipse on a sunny day?

 

[Jan Age]

Of the current squad I don’t think any go missing as they often see a lot of the ball and do put a shift in.

We just seem to lack self belief for some reason.

 

[SwissBlade]

Baldock rarely goes missing in action.

No but he doesn't do enough, like Stevens

 

[Woodwardfan]

Of the current squad I don’t think any go missing as they often see a lot of the ball and do put a shift in.

We just seem to lack self belief for some reason.

There are various definitions of 'going missing', 'hiding', 'not taking risks'.

I'm sure we all know which players stand up to be counted when the going gets tough. They are whom Mourinho was on about and he chose to only name two in the weekend game.

I sincerely hope Holmes will step up and continue to try to be positive when the chips are down. Freeman will. Fleck does. O'Connell, Stearman and Basham do. Clarke can be a game changer. The team plays well when Duffy plays well, not sure he digs in when things are going badly, though he did at Hillsborough. Wilson doesn't look like a battler in adversity but we won't know the characters of the new signings until they have played say 25 games.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Sorry I should add to the above that Mourinho said the other 8 outfielders were working hard and the team had control but there was not enough risk taking and spark: too safe, too slow.

 

[HoodedClaw]

I'm sure Wilder has said that he believes in the players more than they believe in themselves.

We've been abe to see this for a while now, possibly since Coutts got injured certainly not long after. Leon opting not to shoot or unbelievably heading wide, the change to chuckle brothers football instead of crossing the ball when we've made room, the lack of driving forward through the middle when the opportunity presents etc etc.

They're all human and for most of them we are the biggest club they've played for and we're still in the mix for the biggest prize in football, it's making the fans nervous so I'm not surprised it's doing the same to the players.

Oh, and Mourinho is a full grade 'eritage twat, playing out of date football whilst pissing off players, who he bought, and fans is only going to lead to one thing. His methods worked 10+years ago, now he just sounds, and most probably is, a mardy twat.

 

[wizadry]

What about players who stand up to be counted during an eclipse on a sunny day?

As long as someone turns the floodlights on before this phenomenon, I’m pretty sure someone will be able to count them and the celestial body.

 

[Bladesthorpe]

Mourinho is being very honest about his feelings of late. I've just listened to his post-Brighton interview in which he talks of players who keep 'at it' in dark times as well as sunny times. He named Matic and Tominay as 'islands of positivity' who kept 'at it' throughout the game while others didn't show, kept working but not really fully 'at it', not demanding the ball, taking responsibility, they were scared to play in fact.

While he was talking I thought of Wilder and his players. Our manager doesn't criticise individuals unfavourably in public and confines his personal comments to praise when it's due. He has a go at the group in public occasionally but never at individuals. Mainly he praises the application and character of his group of players at every opportunity.

That said, I think the man himself has been surprised, even shocked at the loss of momentum by his group and is now learning so much about each individual in these grey times after all that success over the first 16 months he managed us. Certainly he will be looking at the January signings and wondering why they haven't settled better, will they be good enough?

If we all cast our minds back and think of the activity and general busyness on the pitch by the group and relate it to today's team which has nowhere near the intensity, optimism or sheer bravado which have all seeped away. Wilder cannot turn on switches to bring back the sunshine but he will be noting full well which players are the ones who keep 'at it' in bad times.

If he was to name the Matic's of our team last Saturday, maybe he would have said Fleck, Blackman, Stearman, O'Connell ( but not by his past standards); nobody else. Not enough that's for sure.

I also think certain players were carried along on the coat-tails of other players and have to step up when their main men are 'off the boil'. Most of all let's see that urgency and determination as a minimum. Even if mistakes are made we all want to see our team outworking the opposition and moving the ball quicker and players demanding the ball.

Mourinho talked of the 'heavy Man Utd shirt they wear'. Well it's all relative and for most of our players our shirt is the 'heaviest' they have ever worn. We are a 'big club' for most of these lads.

The post falls down with " In these grey times" Woody, these aren't grey times at all. Compared to the last 6 seasons (not last season) they are positively rosey times we are going through now.

 

[GreasyChipBeattie]

Our manager doesn't criticise individuals unfavourably in public and confines his personal comments to praise when it's due. He has a go at the group in public occasionally but never at individuals.

Not sure I agree with this mate.
I think it was after the Forest game that he listed a few who could/should have done better.
He started with the forwards and went through half the team finishing with 'subs that run into trouble instead of picking a pass (or something like that) which was a clear comment about Brooks (and fairly so) No, he doesn't slag individuals in public, but he's certainly not averse to mentioning individual errors or poor decision making.

 

[Woodwardfan]

The post falls down with " In these grey times" Woody, these aren't grey times at all. Compared to the last 6 seasons (not last season) they are positively rosey times we are going through now.

Looking at Wilder these days I'd say he feels these are grey times but certainly not dark for the reasons you say.

I think he is surprised we have not done better this year. He was like the cat with the cream when we did all that business early January.